SLOW Weight Loss + Lean Body Mass Decreasing (Vegetarian)

nickelpickle · October 2012

@possibri I just ordered a 3lb bag of Nutiva hemp seed 15g! Thank you! :happy:

DPernet · October 2012

Unfortunately, you WILL lose LBM when you are in a calorie deficit. You can certainly mitigate the amount lost by weight training and increasing protein etc etc. you will not stop the loss completely though.

NicoleisQuantized · October 2012

Bump

LaurenAOK · October 2012

A couple months after becoming vegetarian, my hair started thinning fairly dramatically. I was getting double the daily recommended amount of protein, I was taking a multivitamin for iron and zinc... it didn't seem like I was missing anything from meat, so I was confused. I went to the doctor for it and they said I seemed perfectly healthy, even got blood work done that came back normal. But my hair continued to thin.

Then my friend found a possible cause. She tried to go vegetarian and she couldn't do it because she kept feeling sick every day (headaches, nausea, etc). Well, she is really sensitive to hormones - she said that the way she felt as a vegetarian was the exact same way she feels when she starts a new birth control pill or something. She realized that when she stopped getting the hormones that are in meat, she started getting sick. She started eating meat again and is perfectly fine now. I realized hormones can greatly affect hair loss, and they're the one thing I can't supplement.

So, after a year of being veggie, I decided to stop a few weeks ago. I'm eating meat every day for a couple of months and I'm going to see if it has an impact on my hair. I *think* it's not thinning quite as much now, but it's hard to tell!

So basically, I think everyone is just different. I think it's possible to be perfectly healthy as a vegetarian, in fact I think most vegetarians are! But some people's bodies just don't respond well, unfortunately. I wish mine did because I loved being vegetarian and I hate eating meat (I'm a huge animal lover and it really freaks me out). As long as you feel healthy, I'm sure you're fine!

LottieLou13 · October 2012

Firstly good on you for being a vegetarian for animal rights reasons. I'm vegetarian and almost vegan too - I started at 10 years old simply because I don't like the taste or texture of meat and have slowly gone more towards animal rights reasons (although its still not the main reason).

For anyone to say that a vegetarian diet is any less healthy than a meat eating one is talking bull poop. Vegetarians and omnivore diets are can be both as healthy and unhealthy as each other. I didn't get to 200lbs eating properly and not exercising. That was my problem not eating meat or not eating meat.

Anyway!
Whilst it can be harder to get enough protein in a vege/nearly vegan diet its not impossible. My protein levels have been seriously low recently but if I think about it I can get to 100g + a day. Carbs are not the devil...despite what some people may say. Going as low as 50g carbs isn't needed at all.
Your routine and everything looks good and no matter what when you eat on a deficit you WILL lose LBM. Unfortunately that is a given. The thing which prevent it from happening AS fast are lifting and eating as many grams of protein as you have in lbs of LMB. So if your LBM is 103lbs then you should be eating 103g + of protein a day.

tigersword · October 2012

Soy is bad for you? Try asking the Okinawans, who have much longer, healthier lives, and have been eating soy for thousands of years. There's nothing wrong with soy.

truddy6647 · October 2012

When it comes to soy it depends on how it is processed. I know that soy in most forms affects me badly. Throws my hormones off and causes me to gain weight at a fast rate because of the screwing it does with my thyroid. My doctor has advised me to say away from soy. needless to say soy can be bad for some individuals

WendyTerry420 · October 2012

That's the one I use too! I love it!

WendyTerry420 · October 2012

For people who inject politics into food.... soy = Monsanto

Why go soy when you can get hemp anyway? Hemp is so much better in terms of nutrition and taste, and is very positive for the people with political concerns.

gargisingh · October 2012

I want to chime in. I dont eat meat either. I have my reasons (environmental and health).
They key is that I have been losing weight consistently and I feel I am getting stronger.
I want to 'bump' this message thread because I want to know what good suggestions come out for your experience with LBM loss. The only thing I can say is this: (as a research engineer I say this with some confidence-) most BF calculators are inconsistent and flawed, except for BodPod test, which is based on Archimedes principal.
I stick to Bodpod test for my use. Because it is too expensive for my grad student stipend- I get it done once in 5-6 months.
All the best and "bump"

katevarner · October 2012

I'm currently maintaining lean body mass and losing body fat, and I eat more like 150 g of protein per day, around 200 g of carbs. I eat lots of meat, tho, sorry. Also a ton of dairy. I'm 47, 108 lbs., 5'3", this morning I had 19.6% body fat and 87.9 lbs. LBM per my scale.

As far as the bodpod vs. my scale, I have even lower body fat per the bodpod at my gym. I get mine measured every 6 months. Last time it said I had lost 22 lbs. of fat and gained 6 lbs. of LBM in 6 months. I think it was wrong. According to my scale, I have lost 12.2 lbs. of fat and 3.2 lbs. of LBM in about the same time period. I think that's more accurate.

praxisproject · October 2012

I am not a Vegetarian, but I was having trouble with my LBM and it's now improving.

I was doing a VLCD which was low GI, but not really low carb, it was also low fat and very low calorie. I was doing okay on it for awhile, but all of a sudden I was tired, my muscles were very weak and often failing during exercise, I was losing LBM.

I've switched to Atkins, much higher protein, higher fat, lower carb, no heavy cardio unless my muscles are feeling "energised", I'm sticking with walking and Zumba for now, to allow it to stabilise. Cardio isn't good for LBM if you're having trouble with it, so talk to your doctor, make sure you're finding a good balance.

More protein and less cardio has made the biggest difference I think, I don't think my previous plan had anywhere near enough protein to maintain my muscle mass during weight loss and my focus on cardio was compounding the problem. Cardio isn't bad if your muscles are okay, but how you do it and for how long may be counter productive. My doctor also recommended keeping variety in my protein intake, not just a single type of protein.

This site has a good summary of my doctor's points in the top three items listed:
http://www.mensfitness.com/training/build-muscle/10-ways-lose-muscle

I was doing cardio before, but for too long, until I was exhausted and I was not eating enough protein or calories for my level of workout (burning muscle). I'm exercising less now but losing more weight and gaining more muscle and my health is improving in leaps and bounds. Weight training is coming next when my doctor is happy for me to increase my exercise.

nickelpickle · October 2012

Thank you everyone who commented and gave advice. As many of you have said, I've got to stop relying to heavily on the measurements of my body fat scale. Thank you also to everyone who supports my animal rights views :happy: I appreciate that!!!

@LaurenAOK, that's very interesting. Thanks a lot for posting the explanation. I'm really glad that I'm a healthy vegetarian! I couldn't imagine not being a vegetarian

I hope that if your hair situation doesn't improve that you consult with your doctor, though! That would make me very nervous.

@LottieLou13, I'm definitely going to up my protein. You mentioned eating as many g/day as LBM, and many others have said the same. I'm going to have to shoot for ~100g/day of protein - almost half of what I usually do! :noway:

@katevarner, you're so tiny! haha! 108lbs at 5'3" is super skinny! I hope you're in maintenance mode

@praxisproject, that's an interesting approach. Although my cardio is important to me (makes me feel great - plus I've been a runner for a long time and wouldn't want to give that up), I might kick one of my cardio workouts to the curb and replace it with a third strength training workout. Thank you for that link! Even though it's geared toward men, I found it very interesting.

Again, thank you to everyone who commented and helped me out. I'm now on a new path and I think it will work out very well for me!!! :happy:

NursRatchett · October 2012

Could you possibly be overdoing the weightlifting?

Gt3ch · October 2012

I'm basically a vegetarian bordering on vegan. I can tell you it is completely possible to be healthy and strong eating a plant-based whole-food diet. I am much stronger, energetic, and healthier as a vegetarian. I recover MUCH better after exercise than when I was eating meat. Don't believe the carnivores. You don't need massive amounts of protein to grow or maintain muscle. In fact it really isn't healthy long-term. Babies have great nutritional needs to build tissue and grow fast. Mother's milk has about 1.8% protein. A baked potato and oatmeal have about the same percentage of protein. Carrot juice has about 1.4% protein. Just don't eat vegetarian junk food and you'll be fine.

As a vegetarian you should be aware that many plant proteins aren't complete. You should look for plant proteins that are complete and also eat a wide variety of beans/legumes, and leafy and cruciferous vegetables as well as pseudograins and seeds.

Your protein intake is only on the low side for intense exercise & lifting. It would otherwise be fine. I'm a little dubious about the RMR number that was calculated for you. It seems rather high to me. But if you're not eating your exercise calories it's probably a fine calorie target for slow weight-loss or maintenance.

I was maintaining my lean body mass until I started going below 18% body fat. I started loosing about equal amounts of fat and LBM until I got to 13%. I then started eating maintenance and my LBM quickly returned to the previous number resulting in less than 12% body fat. You shouldn't be surprised by something similar; the leaner you get the more LBM you will loose along with fat (especially if you are breaking down muscle tissue in the gym while eating a deficit). This is normal. Your body will re-balance itself fairly easily when you increase calories.

I'm dairy-free and really not a fan of whey protein. A few years back there was a Consumer Reports test that found heavy metal contamination in a number of big-name protein powders. This is, in my opinion, a risk with unregulated heavily processed foods. Although I've experimented with a number of protein shakes I personally haven't felt they were of much benefit. Some of them made me feel sluggish afterwards instead of helping me recover. I really like Brendan Brazier's ideas in his book "Thrive" (Probably something you should read). I just started trying some of his Vega shakes and like them (not the price, though). He's a big fan of Hemp seeds and pseudograins like quinoa and amaranth. Eating lots of those as well as veggies with a but-load of protein (Broccoli, kale, brussels sprouts, asparagus, spinach, collard greens, escarole, etc) are more important than the shakes IMHO.

LilEmm · October 2012

If you're in the states, they sell it at Trader Joe's - it makes an earthy smoothie

hkry3250 · October 2012

For a man, it's bad because it turns to estrogen in the body, and that's one thing a man doesn't want, is more estrogen, especially if he's trying to lose weight or build muscle. AS far as being vegan for the environment, how does that work? Do you have less gas being vegan? Seriously, i want to know. Since a cow produces as much carbon monoxide as a semi-truck in a day, wouldn't common sense say, eat the cow and help the ozone? But I do love vegans, because the more people who are vegan, the demand for meat goes down, so for us omnivores, we can eat cheaper. Btw, as far as health goes, those who eat lean meat such as fish, poultry and lean red meat are actually healthier than a vegan. Our body uses meat protein different than veggie protein, just because we are genetically programmed to have a balanced diet, and no study of vegan vs omni has ever been done that used real, non-GMO meat that say a vegan is healthier.

Gt3ch · October 2012

I wouldn't worry so much about carbs. You need carbs & sugars for energy. There is no benefit to reducing carbs a little. Instead there is a tipping point that if you go below a certain amount of carbs then you get the benefits of a ketogenic diet and you alter your biochemistry. Besides as a vegetarian you simply can't have a diet that is low in carbohydrates. If you're going to reduce anything reduce the foods that are empty calories like processed sweets and processed wheat. Try to maximize the protein and vitamins you get in every calorie.

Soy is fine in moderation. Processed soy like tofu should not be eaten daily. The Okinawans do not eat lots of processed soy junk. You shouldn't either. I limit my intake as a man concerned about his hormonal levels.

A plant-based diet is ABSOLUTELY better for the environment as well as the individual. It has a much lower carbon footprint, especially if you eat locally grown food. Forget the stupid hybrids & electric cars (that use electricity mostly from coal power plants). If most people ate mostly vegetarian there would be a massive improvement in slowing of climate change as well as the cost of healthcare. The biggest part of our carbon footprint comes from industry and food.

nickelpickle · November 2012

@Gt3ch, thank you for all of your comments, and inspiration. I'm also borderline vegan. I have also been a vegetarian for quite some time now and I could never turn my back on it. I feel incredibly good. I never get sick. I have a ton of energy and I sleep very well at night. My blood labs are always on point. Truly I've never been so healthy in my life. Saying that a diet involving eating meat is healthier than a meat-free diet is insane. I understand that some people have negative experiences that are out of their control, but I think many vegetarians go into the lifestyle without doing enough nutritional research, and therefore it ends up having a negative impact on them. However, as with any lifestyle, you have to tweak it to fit you - you don't just turn your back on it.

I've been doing some research on different beans and their protein levels and I'm going to consume more beans

I'll do the same for leafy and cruciferous vegetables, pseudograins, and seeds. Thanks also for your input on carbs and soy products. Since reading your post, I've looked at the products I eat on a regular basis and a LOT of them contain soy! I don't believe it's been doing anything bad to be, but who knows if it's hurting me reproductively, since I've never had any kids.

I agree with you that I think the RMR reading was off. I've been doing some close calculations for the past few weeks... Recording literally every morsel I consume, and weighing myself weekly. I think my RMR is more around 1,600.

Thanks for also sharing your experience with losing LBM. I've lost 6 lbs so far, and 2lbs in LBM. So I guess it's not too bad. Ergh I haven't heard that about whey protein. That stinks, I just bought a big tub of it! haha.

markpmc · November 2012

I was going to recommend a similar change. I didn't read the entire thread, would you consider adding a soy protein powder to increase your protein intake? As for the carbs, well try not to eat 'carbs out of a box', they'll be highly refined.

Good luck.

SLOW Weight Loss + Lean Body Mass Decreasing (Vegetarian)

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