Have you gotten *lean* without torturing yourself?

Imanido

But then you have people quoting studies in which the 'calories in calories out' theory didn't ring true...

Yup, I'm right there with you. I read the Smarter Science of Slim, Eat to Live, The Skinny *****, The Skinny Rules, and New Rules for Lifting for Women and they all have generally around the same idea: eat clean, but... The Skinny ***** says to avoid meat and dairy, while New Rules says to eat meat and dairy while Eat to Live says you can eat all the fruits and vegetables you want and don't have to count calories, while Bob Harper's book pretty much insinuates you should eat around 1200 calories a day. So, I'm really confused, and I don't mean to add to the confusion, I'm just lost like you!

I prefer following a science based lifestyle, but it seems like everybody's research can be knocked down. All I'm doing is continuing to eat as clean as I can and do the workouts. I'm not a professional, but if anybody can weigh in about this, I'd be more than grateful.

I was just going to write exactly this. I am in the same boat, so the only solution I have found is trying to eat as clean as I can and keep doing my workouts. I think that consistency, time and patience will give results. Although there is still all these women that have kept a healthy fit live and although they have all the muscle, it was still under a layer of fat. So I keep reading and trying things.

EvgeniZyntx

It's very easy to fall for the information paralysis trap - too much info, conflicting info and decisions that get questioned. The solution is not read another book or study.

Simplify, consolidate and construct a workable and realistic plan.

Yes, when you look at the details (and I've posted some complicated threads on this) calories in - calories out is inexact but it is an excellent yardstick that will be sufficient to achieve your goals. Keep it simple, execute against your plan, adjust as needed and you will make it.

Rule 1: Do not torture yourself. This will lead to dropping off, binging, and stupid choices. Look at what you enjoy, at what you want to achieve and use these as goal posts. I want to do lots of sports, so a variety of activities are in my kit of exercise tools. I don't like swimming in public pools - so guess what you would almost never see in my diary? Have fun. If you like pain, add a little. Or a lot.

Rule 2: Calorie deficit creates weight loss. There is no and if or buts about it. The solution is determining what is a sustainable, realistic and enjoyable deficit over time that you can live with and remain healthy and sane. For me, eating less of everything works, for others certain food groups have got to go, or a specific diet. But it should be something you can keep for life once you go to a maintenance level - otherwise you'll just fall into bad habits, if you have not built up good habits.

Rule 3: You are not required to exercise for weight loss, but you cannot stay healthy or improve body composition by doing nothing Exercise can help create a calorie deficit and can be helpful in weight loss, it isn't a requirement. Many people lose without it. However, exercise is useful to keep the body fit, to build or maintain muscle mass and to grow old gracefully. Define your goals and chose your activity (AND KEEP IT FUN). Resistance training of some sort or another is the most efficient way of retaining muscle mass which will help with weight loss and allow you to have a better metabolism. (My personal choice is weight lifting, running, hiking, biking...)

Rule 4:Keep your nutrients healthy - Or If It Fits Your Macros - your body needs fat, carbohydrates and protein. Keeping these in balance and adjusting based on your body composition goals should be part of your plan. Get enough protein, enough fat and the rest in carbo. If low carb works for you and that is what you want to try. Fine. It isn't for me, but some people swear by this. If you are exercising or doing resitance training keep your proteins up. Make sure you also get you micro nutrients - iron, vitamins.

Rule 5:Drink enough water. This helps with appetite and makes everything work better. Enough is more than you think but less than the ocean. Pee should be lightly colored to clear.

Rule 6:There are no quick solutions Gaining weight took time, taking it off takes time, sometimes longer. Enjoy the journey.

Everything else can be a complication or refinement of these basic elements. You decide how deep to go - but don't let the information glut take you away from the basics.

bufger

The post by EvgeniZyntx is a good one.

I try not to read too much about it. Simply find one base idea you like and can live with and then evolve it to make it work for you. I go with high protein because it keeps me full for longer, i also do a good mix of cardio and strength (cardio from sports, strength from gym/P90X). I try to eat as clean as possible but its difficult to do all the time so i manage my intake more on portion control.

There is no set diet im following except for counting calories. Knowing roughly how much im putting in helps alot. I dont mind if im +/- 200 now and then so im not super strict but i need to know if i've made a really bad food choice and i'm 1000+ over!

animatorswearbras

Basically for me it's all about patience I lose half a pound to a pound a week fairly consistently from just dieting throught the week when I'm at work ie 1400 cals a day and I don't eat my exercise cals back (I do 2 zumba classes a week and some xbox kinect "just dance" with my friends 1 day a week) and at weekends I don't really restrict myself I just try not to go too mad 2000 cals + a day usually (if I'm bad it can be as much as 3000+), this usually evens out to about 1600 cals net a day. I haven't cut out any food group apart from trying to avoid/limit calorie dense food (cheese, chocolate, too much cooking oils, fatty meats) and avoid/limit too much processed and especially take away food, also I try to half my usual portions of cal dense carbs like pasta and rice by padding out my meals with tonnes of veggies and salad. (I'm a big portion girl)

It's a bit of a half arsed* diet to be fair but it works for me, the zumbas really toned my bottom half up and I actually look forward to going because it's a laugh and doesn't feel like a slog (should probably do weights too) and the calorie restrictions at work during the week are fairly easy to maintain as I really only have access to the food I bring in, I've been doing this diet pretty consistently for 5 months with the odd week off here and there for holidays away, illness, stress but I don't really gain if I have a week off which compounds that because i've lost slowly it's permanent rather than yoyo loss.

Good luck finding what works for you though xxx

* not that half arsed I suppose just not hard core

dad106

I say I have.

Dropped 31 pounds and went from 26 or so percent body fat, down to like 20% in a year.

There were times when I felt like I was torturing myself, but then I'd give myself a break and start again.

Now that I'm on Maintenance, and my life has gotten more crazy, I mainly do what I can, when I can, while keeping my calories in check and I've still stayed pretty lean.

bluefox9er

I'm at a point where I'm just really fed up with all the conflicting advice out there.

Carbs? Yes, no, as long as they're not grains, etc.

Sugar? Okay in small amounts vs poison to be completely avoided.

Dairy? Okay vs not meant for human consumption, causing leaky gut, and so on.

Cardio? Great, not-so-great, high intensity, low intensity... (and I'm from the exercise field, so I've heard a lot about this).

I've done the low-cal, low-fat exercise-like-crazy (including heavy weight training) thing. I ended up a smaller version of my fat self, with a few nice muscles here and there.

I can't do that much exercise now. I'm just not physically capable. Nor can I do much high-intensity or high-weight work.

A sort of primal/paleo diet seemed like a good fit, since supposedly it allows you to maintain more muscle. I'm not sure if that's true or not, because I have a heck of a time sticking with it for very long. It's just not the diet for me. There are too many things I miss.

I hate counting calories. After a while of that, I go crazy and binge.

This isn't meant to sound whiny. Maybe there's no good answer. I was really impressed with the "Smarter Science of Slim" advice (sort of a lower-fat, high-protein-dairy version of paleo) but then I saw an interesting webpage (Google "carb sane asylum") which bashed the author's research. So I don't know.

I just want to hang on to the muscle I've got and lose 40 pounds or so. That shouldn't be too much to ask, should it??

It's really all about calories. These were the diets I tried and failed and did the diet yo-yo with for 15 years:

Low fat high carb, Slim-Fast, Weight Watchers, Atkins, Organic, Weston Price Diet, The Schwarzbein Principle, Eat Fat Lose Fat, The Ultimate PH Solution, The Makers Diet, A friends diet from a personal trainer/dietician

I finally just got sick of it all and made up my own diet with healthy foods I enjoy and smaller portions. I ate my meals from small desert plates and bowls. I stopped eating in the evenings (not that when you eat matters.) I started calling what I did mini-meals and mini-fasts and I lost 40 lbs. Then I found Eat Stop Eat and learned why it worked and everything took off for me at that point.

Eat what you want, eat what you like, mostly healthy. Don’t deprive yourself of foods you love unless there is a serious health risk. Depriving yourself of food you love and creating extensive good food and bad food lists at some point borders on a mental disorder. It will drive you insane.

Even so, being on a deficit is HARD. There is no easy way around it. It may seem like torture to some people. I know I was in tears some nights feeling hungry and knowing that I ate enough for the day and to eat more would have meant NO DEFICIT. No deficit means no weight loss.

Being on a calorie deficit is hard. You can't do this journey on will power alone. You must set up your environment for success. Have a team around you in your real life, not just online. Get trigger foods out of the house. It will take some sacrifice and it's not easy. You might have to say no to some social events sometimes.

Too many changes at once can be hard on some people. I've always eaten healthy so it easy for me to simply eat less. Eating at a calorie deficit is hard on people; even a small deficit puts your body in a state of flux with hormones and such. Everyone is different. Some people can handle a deeper calorie deficit than others, this is not right or wrong, it just is. Stress in your life affects your hunger hormones; lack of sleep, fatigue, job stress, family stress, financial stress, etc. Add in emotional eating issues and it gets even more complicated. Most people can only handle so much change/stress at once, they try to do too much and fail. Sometimes it might be a better strategy to eat at maintenance and make some small changes first, it really depends on how much stress you are taking in at the moment.

for me it's all about a calorie budget. I had less of a budget available when I was losing weight, more to spend now that I'm maintaining and all the tools I used for weight loss come into play for the rest of my life maintaining.

When you have accumulated excess fat, you have accumulated a debt. It is hard to pay off the debt (you have less calories to spend). If you are sitting next to someone your same gender and height and they are not overweight and you are, they get to eat more than you (have more calories to spend) because they are debt free. You have less calories to spend because you are paying off your debt.

I am debt free and I never want to go into debt ever again. I don't ever want to do the weight loss process again. I'm glad I did it the old fashioned way. There is no magic pill, no short cuts, it's just plain hard. It requires tremendous determinations and focus.

There is no mystery to weight loss, everyone thinks something is wrong, their metabolism is broken, they have low thyroid, they have menopause or whatever issue, they are as unique as a snowflake, whatever. I thought a lot of these things once too but once the doctor helped resolve the health issues for me I learned there is still no magic pill. Most people eat more than they need to and are not at good at estimating calories as they think they are. Most people have a lower BMR than they think they do. The only way to know for sure is to go to a lab and have it tested. It doesn't seem fair to have to eat less and feel a little hunger. It's hard to face the truth of it, very hard. It's not fun. It's drudgery at times. But if you learn to enjoy your smaller amounts of food (necessary to lose weight, since the reason we got fat in the first place was eating too much whether we knew it or not), and rejoice in your victories it can be done.

Your body loses weight in chunks, not linear. I have found that you can do everything right and your weight loss seems to plateau but if you are patient and keep exercising and eating at a deficit (however slight) you will lose it, it will suddenly "whoosh". There are so many variables for the scale; water retention, digestion, hormones, allergies, sodium, carbs, water intake, DOMS, inflammation, the list goes on. People mistakenly think they lose or gain weight when they eat more or less because of these fluctuations.

Losing weight requires tremendous patience. You will not lose it when you want it or where you want it. The body does its thing. Some apparent plateaus can last a month or so. You cannot make it happen faster. You must focus on two things; calories and exercise. Nothing else matters. Scales and metrics don't matter. The day in and day out grind of exercise and calories are all that matters. It is not very exciting until things fall into place. You get your victories and you ride one victory to the next.

The scale is a trend tool. The scale is good but put it away and only check once a week and only use it as a trend tool. It will fluctuate, it does not matter. Take front side and back progress pictures at least once a month. You will see differences that the metrics won't tell you and it's that little bit of NSV that will keep you going until the next victory.

To say eat more is wrong.

To say eat less is wrong.

To find the exact calories needed for YOU to be in a healthy sustainable calorie deficit is the right answer. Wait, if you need to adjust by 100 do it, wait, adjust, wait, adjust, wait. The tortoise wins this race.

All that matters is calories. A healthy balanced diet within a calorie budget for a deficit that is right for YOU is all that matters for weight loss. Don't make it complicated.

^^ this person is my hero ^^