How many calories to log for 5x5?

cedarghost

Anyone know?

AngryDiet

1.

Really, weight lifting doesn't burn very much.

mustgetmuscles1

Not many. MFP gives me 214 cals/hour for strength training. Many lifters dont even bother counting it.

cedarghost

1.

Really, weight lifting doesn't burn very much.

lol...you're not lifting right.....try Metabolic Resistance Training......15 minutes burns way more than 45 + minutes of cardio....

cedarghost

Not many. MFP gives me 214 cals/hour for strength training. Many lifters dont even bother counting it.

Thanks man. I haven't been logging, but I have been doing Metabolic Resistance Training for about 10 weeks and haven't dropped a ton of weight, but I've dropped 6% bodyfat. Getting ready to switch to 5x5 and work on strength gains for a while. I like to switch up my lifting program every 10 weeks or so. I do HIIT on the weekend for 20 minutes for extra cardio and burn. Probably add another day a week of that, since I doubt 5x5 will give me the afterburn I get from MRT.

AngryDiet

.

mustgetmuscles1

1.

Really, weight lifting doesn't burn very much.

lol...you're not lifting right.....try Metabolic Resistance Training......15 minutes burns way more than 45 + minutes of cardio....

Metabolic Resistance Training?...Sounds fancy. :huh:

Strength training is not circuit training. If you are turning your lifting into a cardio session then you are decreasing the strength building benefits and it will no longer be "strength training".

So technically you would be doing it wrong if you were not maximizing strength increases with enough recovery time between sets.

There is nothing wrong with circuit training and there is nothing wrong with strength training but they are not the same thing. If you ask a question about a "strength building" program you shouldnt really turn around and tell someone they are doing it wrong based on how many calories it is burning. Burning calories, creating "after burn", or burning fat are not the point of the programs.

cedarghost

Metabolic Resistance Training is basically supersets with little or no rest between sets. And it definitely decreases the strength building benefits by trading off with more fat-burning benefits. BUT you still get strength increases because you are still lifting weights. Just less benefits.
am switching up to 5x5 to focus on strength training that will give me bigger strength gains and to keep my body from getting too used to my program.
My point was that if you are focused on calorie burning while lifting, and you are only burning 1 calorie, then you ARE doing it wrong based on your goals.
Circuit training/MRT are definitely different than pure strength training like 5x5, however they are both strength training.
Has my bench went up as much doing MRT as much as it would by doing 5x5? No way. But it HAS went up. Just a lesser amount.
And when someone gives me an answer like "1", they are either: A. being a smart *kitten*, or B. Not doing it right. I just didn't feel like calling the guy a smart *kitten*....
:laugh:

sjohnny

Metabolic Resistance Training is basically supersets with little or no rest between sets. And it definitely decreases the strength building benefits by trading off with more fat-burning benefits. BUT you still get strength increases because you are still lifting weights. Just less benefits.
am switching up to 5x5 to focus on strength training that will give me bigger strength gains and to keep my body from getting too used to my program.
My point was that if you are focused on calorie burning while lifting, and you are only burning 1 calorie, then you ARE doing it wrong based on your goals.
Circuit training/MRT are definitely different than pure strength training like 5x5, however they are both strength training.
Has my bench went up as much doing MRT as much as it would by doing 5x5? No way. But it HAS went up. Just a lesser amount.
And when someone gives me an answer like "1", they are either: A. being a smart *kitten*, or B. Not doing it right. I just didn't feel like calling the guy a smart *kitten*....
:laugh:

If you already know the answer why did you ask the question?

AngryDiet

My point was that if you are focused on calorie burning while lifting, and you are only burning 1 calorie, then you ARE doing it wrong based on your goals.
...
And when someone gives me an answer like "1", they are either: A. being a smart *kitten*, or B. Not doing it right. I just didn't feel like calling the guy a smart *kitten*....
:laugh:

The "1" is a token calorie for the sake of logging the effort. I see many people do this for logging their lifting, since the calories burned is less than the usual margin for error for food estimates anyway.

It's not meant to literally be 1 calorie burned.

And while my answer was a big too general, one isn't targeting calorie burn while doing a 5x5. Well, one shouldn't be, if one doesn't want to either be sorely disappointed, or sorely self deluded.

cedarghost

Metabolic Resistance Training is basically supersets with little or no rest between sets. And it definitely decreases the strength building benefits by trading off with more fat-burning benefits. BUT you still get strength increases because you are still lifting weights. Just less benefits.
am switching up to 5x5 to focus on strength training that will give me bigger strength gains and to keep my body from getting too used to my program.
My point was that if you are focused on calorie burning while lifting, and you are only burning 1 calorie, then you ARE doing it wrong based on your goals.
Circuit training/MRT are definitely different than pure strength training like 5x5, however they are both strength training.
Has my bench went up as much doing MRT as much as it would by doing 5x5? No way. But it HAS went up. Just a lesser amount.
And when someone gives me an answer like "1", they are either: A. being a smart *kitten*, or B. Not doing it right. I just didn't feel like calling the guy a smart *kitten*....
:laugh:

Did you read the question? I never answered it.

cedarghost

My point was that if you are focused on calorie burning while lifting, and you are only burning 1 calorie, then you ARE doing it wrong based on your goals.
...
And when someone gives me an answer like "1", they are either: A. being a smart *kitten*, or B. Not doing it right. I just didn't feel like calling the guy a smart *kitten*....
:laugh:

The "1" is a token calorie for the sake of logging the effort. I see many people do this for logging their lifting, since the calories burned is less than the usual margin for error for food estimates anyway.

It's not meant to literally be 1 calorie burned.

And while my answer was a big too general, one isn't targeting calorie burn while doing a 5x5. Well, one shouldn't be, if one doesn't want to either be sorely disappointed, or sorely self deluded.

Thank you.

DrMAvDPhD

Since I am attempting to add muscle and not lose weight, I add lifting as the amount of extra calories I want to consume that day to assist in muscle growth, which for me is 200 (so I am eating 200 over maintenance on lifting days). That way, I have a maintenance goal for nonlifting days and I'm not plagued with red numbers and the disappointing goal message.

jacksonpt

I'm not sure there is 1 widely accepted answer, but...

From everything I've read and the people I've talked to, the burn from heavy lifting is far less than that of cardio. However, the resulting "afterburn" is greater with heavy lifting than it is with cardio.

What's all that mean? That, when you factor in the afterburn, you burn basically the same number of cals in a 24 hour span doing 45 minutes of heavy lifting as you would doing 45 minutes of cardio.


Personally, I don't care about cals burned while lifting... that's not why I lift. If I'm worried about cals and deficits and all the rest, I'll change the way I eat or I'll do cardio. If I want to look better, I lift. For me, they serve different purposes and work towards different goals (lifting and cardio). So I track/log cals from cardio, but not from lifting.


.

cedarghost

Since I am attempting to add muscle and not lose weight, I add lifting as the amount of extra calories I want to consume that day to assist in muscle growth, which for me is 200 (so I am eating 200 over maintenance on lifting days). That way, I have a maintenance goal for nonlifting days and I'm not plagued with red numbers and the disappointing goal message.

That makes perfect sense. The main thing I was doing is trying to clean up my profile/goals and switch up training programs at the same time. I have been more focused on fat burning and now I want to focus more on muscle building. I still want to burn fat, but I am needing a break from the program I was using. So I will still be eating at a deficit, just not as much.
This helps. Thanks.

AngryDiet

Good luck building muscle on a deficit.

jacksonpt

Since I am attempting to add muscle and not lose weight, I add lifting as the amount of extra calories I want to consume that day to assist in muscle growth, which for me is 200 (so I am eating 200 over maintenance on lifting days). That way, I have a maintenance goal for nonlifting days and I'm not plagued with red numbers and the disappointing goal message.

That makes perfect sense. The main thing I was doing is trying to clean up my profile/goals and switch up training programs at the same time. I have been more focused on fat burning and now I want to focus more on muscle building. I still want to burn fat, but I am needing a break from the program I was using. So I will still be eating at a deficit, just not as much.
This helps. Thanks.

IMO, pick a goal... build muscle or burn fat. You'll see much better results if you focus on 1 rather than try to do both. Building muscle is really hard if you don't have the calories to do it. Actually, building muscle is really hard, period. It's even harder if you don't have the cals to build new tissue.

Oh, and don't confuse getting stronger with building muscle.


.

cedarghost

I'm not sure there is 1 widely accepted answer, but...

From everything I've read and the people I've talked to, the burn from heavy lifting is far less than that of cardio. However, the resulting "afterburn" is greater with heavy lifting than it is with cardio.

What's all that mean? That, when you factor in the afterburn, you burn basically the same number of cals in a 24 hour span doing 45 minutes of heavy lifting as you would doing 45 minutes of cardio.


Personally, I don't care about cals burned while lifting... that's not why I lift. If I'm worried about cals and deficits and all the rest, I'll change the way I eat or I'll do cardio. If I want to look better, I lift. For me, they serve different purposes and work towards different goals (lifting and cardio). So I track/log cals from cardio, but not from lifting.


.

This too makes sense. I still have quite a bit of fat to burn but I don't want to under-eat and kill lbm gains while doing 5x5. So maybe I won't focus so much on calories while switching to this program. I just need to make sure I am gaining more lbm than fat.

cedarghost

Oh, and don't confuse getting stronger with building muscle.


.

Confused. Won't you eventually build muscle if you keep getting stronger? I have gained lbm and lost fat doing MRT, but wanted to focus more on strength gains for a while, assuming I would get even lbm gains with a good strength program.
Can you explain?
:ohwell:

jacksonpt

I'm not sure there is 1 widely accepted answer, but...

From everything I've read and the people I've talked to, the burn from heavy lifting is far less than that of cardio. However, the resulting "afterburn" is greater with heavy lifting than it is with cardio.

What's all that mean? That, when you factor in the afterburn, you burn basically the same number of cals in a 24 hour span doing 45 minutes of heavy lifting as you would doing 45 minutes of cardio.


Personally, I don't care about cals burned while lifting... that's not why I lift. If I'm worried about cals and deficits and all the rest, I'll change the way I eat or I'll do cardio. If I want to look better, I lift. For me, they serve different purposes and work towards different goals (lifting and cardio). So I track/log cals from cardio, but not from lifting.


.

This too makes sense. I still have quite a bit of fat to burn but I don't want to under-eat and kill lbm gains while doing 5x5. So maybe I won't focus so much on calories while switching to this program. I just need to make sure I am gaining more lbm than fat.

Again, IMO, pick a goal.

Maintain a deficit to lose, just include lifting and protein so you maximize fat loss and minimize muscle loss.

...OR...

Maintain a surplus, including lifting and protein to put on weight. Keep the surplus "reasonable" to minimize fat gains.

jacksonpt

Oh, and don't confuse getting stronger with building muscle.


.

Confused. Won't you eventually build muscle if you keep getting stronger? I have gained lbm and lost fat doing MRT, but wanted to focus more on strength gains for a while, assuming I would get even lbm gains with a good strength program.
Can you explain?
:ohwell:

Strength (ability to move more weight) and size (growing new tissue) are connected, but not completely dependent on each other. The more you lift, the better your body gets at lifting... meaning it "learns" how to use more of the muscle tissue. This is often referred to as "recruiting more muscle fibers". So (for the sake of conversation and round numbers) a newbie lifter might start off lifting and using 50% of his muscle fibers and can bench 150lbs. As he lifts more, his body "learns" and recruits more tissue... so now he is using 70% of his muscle fibers and can lift 165lbs. With more lifting, he's now using 85% of his muscle fibers and can bench 175lbs. He's not growing new tissue, just using the tissue he has.

To your question, yes... at some point the relationship between size and strength will come into play. My initial point was simply that if next week you can bench 150lbs and the following week you can bench 160lbs, don't jump to the conclusion that you're building massive amounts of muscle.

AngryDiet

Also note that people new to lifting can add some muscle mass on a deficit pretty easily, but it becomes progressively harder as you go.

Generally folks lift on a deficit to reduce muscle loss (and possibly gain strength), and lift on a surplus to gain muscle (and strength).

When you lift on a surplus, you will gain fat. That's why folks "cycle" between building muscle and cutting fat.

Is it possible to gain muscle mass on a deficit? Some are adamant that the answer is no, but I'm not convinced. But what I am convinced of is that even if one can, it's far less than optimal. (Through personal experience... doing it wrong.)

cedarghost

Ok. Got it. Cool. I have read and heard of recruiting more muscle fibers but never really made the connection until now.

mustgetmuscles1

Oh, and don't confuse getting stronger with building muscle.


.

Confused. Won't you eventually build muscle if you keep getting stronger?

No you will not necessarily build more muscle even if you get stronger.

I have gained lbm and lost fat doing MRT, but wanted to focus more on strength gains for a while, assuming I would get even lbm gains with a good strength program.
Can you explain?
:ohwell:

I am not doubting that you have increased some LBM while cutting fat. This is possible for people with a lot of fat to lose and/or people who are new to working out. BUT this is not something that can be counted on to continue. No program is going to change this no matter how well it is sold. Burning fat and building muscle is the holy grail of fitness. There are some very limited cases and programs where this is possible but they are short lived or very inefficient at either goal.

cedarghost

Also note that people new to lifting can add some muscle mass on a deficit pretty easily, but it becomes progressively harder as you go.

Generally folks lift on a deficit to reduce muscle loss (and possibly gain strength), and lift on a surplus to gain muscle (and strength).

When you lift on a surplus, you will gain fat. That's why folks "cycle" between building muscle and cutting fat.

Is it possible to gain muscle mass on a deficit? Some are adamant that the answer is no, but I'm not convinced. But what I am convinced of is that even if one can, it's far less than optimal. (Through personal experience... doing it wrong.)

Yeah, I agree. I know it's possible, because I've done it in the last 2 1/2 months, BUT I know I could gain more focusing on a different program like 5x5 and eating more.
Just kind of scary, when I started this a few months ago will the goal of weight loss and I am not where I want to be as far as body weight yet. I'm about 15 to 20 pounds off, and about 9% fat from my initial goal.
But I know the more muscle I build, the easier it will be to burn fat since I would have to feed the new muscle.

AngryDiet

But I know the more muscle I build, the easier it will be to burn fat since I would have to feed the new muscle.

I'm afraid this assumption might be disappointing for you as well.

But I guess that's another thread.

cedarghost

Oh, and don't confuse getting stronger with building muscle.


.

Confused. Won't you eventually build muscle if you keep getting stronger?

No you will not necessarily build more muscle even if you get stronger.

I have gained lbm and lost fat doing MRT, but wanted to focus more on strength gains for a while, assuming I would get even lbm gains with a good strength program.
Can you explain?
:ohwell:

I am not doubting that you have increased some LBM while cutting fat. This is possible for people with a lot of fat to lose and/or people who are new to working out. BUT this is not something that can be counted on to continue. No program is going to change this no matter how well it is sold. Burning fat and building muscle is the holy grail of fitness. There are some very limited cases and programs where this is possible but they are short lived or very inefficient at either goal.

In your opinion, at what point of bf% should a person start focusing on cycling gaining and cutting instead of doing both at once?

cedarghost

But I know the more muscle I build, the easier it will be to burn fat since I would have to feed the new muscle.

I'm afraid this assumption might be disappointing for you as well.

But I guess that's another thread.

lol. Great.....

stormieweather

I've been doing 5x5 for about 8 months. An hour burns approximately 175-225 calories. This includes 5min warmup and my normal TDEE of 70 per hour, as well as an additional 100 crunches on an exercise ball).

So not very much...lol.

cedarghost

I've been doing 5x5 for about 8 months. An hour burns approximately 175-225 calories. This includes 5min warmup and my normal TDEE of 70 per hour, as well as an additional 100 crunches on an exercise ball).

So not very much...lol.

ty

AngryDiet

And don't forget that 5x5 starts you out with low easy weight, and builds slowly.

And that until you are needing the full 5 minute rests between sets, you can burn through a workout in about half an hour...