Rant... Free Medical My Butt

emilymaya16

And yet again I wonder why governments and countries refuse to even consider a system like the NHS that we have here in Britain, this would never have proved a problem. You should never have to worry about money when it comes to your health, as much as it is denied people die in places like USA, supposedly one of the most developed countries in the world, simply because they can't afford to go to the doctor! Since when did that become ok?

OK... the US healthcare system is far from perfect, but I'm pretty sure Britain's NHS has problems, too. For example, a woman in the U.S. is far more likely to have her breast cancer diagnosed early, get appropriate treatment, and survive. Women in the U.S. are typically screened regularly at an earlier age (40), and screened every year instead of every 2-3. In the U.S, a woman diagnosed with breast cancer is 97% likely to still be alive 5 years later, in the UK the odds are only 78%.

No healthcare system is without flaws.

Personally, I have great insurance through my employer and I would choose it over what is provided by the British NHS.

I see what you're saying, the American system is all well and good for those who can afford it, but for those without insurance because they can't afford it? For those who worked hard all their lives, lost their jobs in the recession and are now scraping the bottom of their bank accounts just to eat, never mind get health insurance! Yes the NHS has flaws, but if you're well off in Britain you're perfectly welcome to go pay for private health care if you want to. But the NHS will treat everybody, theres no one who is not able to get a doctors appointment, theres nobody who feels ill for months but can't afford to visit the doctor, and when they finally are ill enough to end up in the ER, they're told they have stage 4 cancer, have months to live and theres nothing we can do, oh, and by the way, here's the £300 bill for coming here today. That is my issue with the American system, all the arguments I've ever heard that favour the american system hinge on statistics like that that you've just given me on breast cancer, but what nobody ever seems to face up to is that the American system only works for those with employment, for those with money, for those who can afford it. The people with no jobs and no money and no way of getting treatment are forgotten about, brushed over. That is why I think the NHS is by far and above the better system, it does not judge, it does not deny treatment, it doesn't forget about anybody. I think this is the point that nobody ever seems to get.

manderson27

What is NHS? How does it work and how is it funded?

National Health Service.

Was set up to be a cradle to grave system of care and is funded by working people, anyone who works pays a certain amount of national insurance tax, this funds the NHS. So if you get ill, you go to the doctor, they refer you if needed to hospital or consultants hopefully they find out what is wrong, give you whatever treatment you need and you don't have to find the money to pay for it as it is funded already.

I can't imagine how difficult it must be to be ill and not be able to afford treatment, very scary.

The NHS saves lives no matter how rich or poor you are, yes it is not perfect but you never have to worry about going to get treatment because you don't have the money or insurance to pay for it.

God bless the NHS I say

dsmpunk

And yet again I wonder why governments and countries refuse to even consider a system like the NHS that we have here in Britain, this would never have proved a problem. You should never have to worry about money when it comes to your health, as much as it is denied people die in places like USA, supposedly one of the most developed countries in the world, simply because they can't afford to go to the doctor! Since when did that become ok?

It's "okay" in the US because (from my end as I have worked with many doctors) they are greedy and looking to pad their pockets rather than work for the common good. People had put them on a pedestal and they could do no wrong, so if they healed your loved one, you'd pay anything. Many do nothing but complain that they are not being reimbursed enough by insurance to afford private schools for their children or keep up the country club memberships. They need their bubble burst. The good one's - well they stay quiet and work and volunteer, not looking for credit or commendations. It's a screwed up society.

So you don't think a doctor is worth paying a premium for if they are good at what they do? God forbid they can afford a better life because they worked their butt off for 20 years or more. Show me an ER that turns away people that can't afford care. Please.

emilymaya16

What is NHS? How does it work and how is it funded?

The NHS is the National Health Service in Britain. It is completely funded by taxes. It means that no matter what is wrong with me I can call up the doctors and get an appointment, I can walk into an emergency room without first checking my bank account, it means that I can get health care any time, any place, and I won't have to worry about how I'm going to find enough money to buy food that week.

emilymaya16

And yet again I wonder why governments and countries refuse to even consider a system like the NHS that we have here in Britain, this would never have proved a problem. You should never have to worry about money when it comes to your health, as much as it is denied people die in places like USA, supposedly one of the most developed countries in the world, simply because they can't afford to go to the doctor! Since when did that become ok?

It's "okay" in the US because (from my end as I have worked with many doctors) they are greedy and looking to pad their pockets rather than work for the common good. People had put them on a pedestal and they could do no wrong, so if they healed your loved one, you'd pay anything. Many do nothing but complain that they are not being reimbursed enough by insurance to afford private schools for their children or keep up the country club memberships. They need their bubble burst. The good one's - well they stay quiet and work and volunteer, not looking for credit or commendations. It's a screwed up society.

So you don't think a doctor is worth paying a premium for if they are good at what they do? God forbid they can afford a better life because they worked their butt off for 20 years or more. Show me an ER that turns away people that can't afford care. Please.

Emergency Rooms may treat you, but you have to be pretty ill to go! You can't go for check ups, you can't go for cancer screening, by the time some people get to an emergency room they're beyond help, and if they'd been able to go to the doctor months before they woulld never have reached that stage. They would have survived. Health care is a human right, I just find it difficult to comprehend how the most powerful country in the world can turn around and say to people, you don't have enough money, so you can't have it. I find it terrifying to be perfectly honest.

RobynMWilson

We don't have free medical care but I have decent insurance as I work for the government. I still paid over a grand the last time I had advanced imaging done and that was above and beyond what my insurance paid. Not to mention the copays for my primary physician, specialist and prescriptions.

I have NO insurance after years of working my tail off and getting laid off. Now i'm a school bus driver and single coverage is so expensive ($100 per week) that I cannot afford to carry insurance. So I hope and pray that I remain healthy. Unfortunately, those with good medical insurance in the US with the employer footing most or all of the bill for the premium are the minority these days. Copays are much better than cash pay so don't complain. I wonder, though, with Obamacare, whether or not a year-long waiting list for an MRI is in our future.

tonightokayalright

If you go to the ED and complain about it enough (ham it up, limp, whatever), you're more likely to get an MRI done right away. Wait time is a year because it's not really impairing your life. I work in a healthcare facility, and we can book MRI's usually within a day or two, depending upon time of day/client's schedule.

Additionally, you can go back to your doctor and ask for a referral to a specialist (rheumatology maybe), but specialist appointments can take just as long, especially because it's not impairing your life.

Seriously. It's free healthcare for a reason. If you want something done, you have to make it known that you can't function because of it.

And hey, if you don't like it, move to the U.S.

(if my tone sounds annoyed, it's because I am. You sound awfully ungrateful. You could live in a third world country and have nothing.)

BrianSharpe

In the US all you'd have to do is go to the ED.

To the OP, no one ever said healthcare is free, it is paid for by the taxpayers of this country.

:drinker: YUP. Socialized healthcare... no thank you :noway:

Very interesting timing as a friend of mine just posted a talk given by Ronald Reagan about the dangers of "socialized" medicine. Interestingly his predictions were completely wrong, at least in respect to the Canadian version of it.We're free to pick our own doctors, access the system as frequently as we want etc etc in fact I'd suggest we enjoy more choice that those in the US with a HMO. In effect, the government acts as an insurer and not much else.

The only parties who benefit from the current system in the US, as far as I can see, are the insurance companies who make massive profits from health insurance (which probably explains why per capita spending on healthcare is twice as high in the US than it is in Canada - and our spending is quite a bit higher than many other countries with universal healthcare)

You have to wonder why the USA ranks 37th in terms of life expectancy when Japan (which has some of the lowest per capita healthcare costs in the world and has universal healthcare) ranks # 1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

170isreal

People don't die in the USA because they can't go to the Doctor. Completely untrue. They go to the Emergency Room, the hospital stops calling about the bill in a couple of months, and then they just raise their prices for other things to cover the cost of those who can't pay. Public hospitals cannot deny service in the emergency room.

People do die in the USA because they do not have access to medical care! Emergency rooms only obligation is to save your life if you are in immediate danger. But if you show up to the ER because you just found out you have {Insert fatal disease} lets say cancer and it's in the early stage where chemo will say your life a ER will NOT provide that for you. They will however, send you home with pain meds and well wishes.

It is disgusting that healthcare is not a basic privilege.

mensasu

OP, I had the same problem in Vancouver. I actually paid for 2 MRI's during my time there. You might shop around cause $1000 sounds high. The other thing to do in the interim is see a sports doctor and if your medical plan pays for it see a physiotherapist. The MRI will point to possible surgery needs, but you might get away with taping or a brace in the interim. I assume also that the doctor has ruled out rheumatoid arthritis. If not, make sure that's not the cause. I had a kneecap that liked to move out of place when I slept and also osteoarthritis. I used a knee brace for about 5 years before I finally had knee surgery. The first MRI showed no tears and the one 5 years later was needed before the surgery and again no tears. The surgery has helped the osteo, it was an implant between the joints as I am still "too young" for a knee replacement. I has not helped the loose kneecap though so its still gives me some trouble.

Yes, our "free medical" in Canada is not always efficient and with all the hospital closures even with the MRI if you need surgery you again either have to pay at a private clinic or wait for a spot in the backlog. I was lucky and didn't wait because the surgery was somewhat experimental and the doctor wanted to do it. Otherwise the wait was another 6+ months. Another thing you might want to consider is seeing if you can get on a wait list for a smaller city like Chiliwack - you again can research this as some places have wait times shorter than Vancouver.

leesehm

I think you sound ungrateful too. An MRI costs $1000 regardless. If you don't want to pay it, why should someone else pay it.
And 3 weeks. That is nothinggggg. I have patients with sore knees for months. Healing takes time. I would see a physiotherapist

jenniferinfl

Sorry OP, don't feel too bad for you. My husband is Canadian and has had the privilege of experiencing both systems of healthcare.

We just don't go to the Dr. I have random mystery pains that I'm worried are either my gallbladder or liver. Doesn't matter, I can't go to any Dr about it, can't afford it. I had a heart condition while pregnant, can't afford to get it checked out again. A large chunk of my dad's bicep muscle popped loose last year, it's still wadded up in a ball around his shoulder, can't do anything about it.

My husband's work actually offers insurance, BUT, it's almost half of what he earns every week. He takes home around $500 a week as a certified welder with ten years of experience, but health insurance would be $225.

If I had to go get an MRI, it would be at least $5000. They are crazy expensive around here.

Here in the states, if you've got a painful knee and no insurance, you pop tylenol or advil, take it easy for the next few months and hope it heals itself. Can't afford $5000 for an MRI on a knee, heck, crutches are cheaper.

kenazfehu

Emergency rooms in the U.S. of A. are only required to stabilize patients. They are not required to run down a diagnosis. My uninsured son injured his ankle about 10 years ago. All the ER doc did was take x-rays to ensure it wasn't broken, then sent him on his way with the advice to take Tylenol or Advil for pain. He still has trouble with that ankle.

Oh, and they sent the bill to collections, which added fees to it. It took him a couple of years to pay it off.

lveh8lve

We don't have free medical care but I have decent insurance as I work for the government. I still paid over a grand the last time I had advanced imaging done and that was above and beyond what my insurance paid. Not to mention the copays for my primary physician, specialist and prescriptions.

I have NO insurance after years of working my tail off and getting laid off. Now i'm a school bus driver and single coverage is so expensive ($100 per week) that I cannot afford to carry insurance. So I hope and pray that I remain healthy. Unfortunately, those with good medical insurance in the US with the employer footing most or all of the bill for the premium are the minority these days. Copays are much better than cash pay so don't complain. I wonder, though, with Obamacare, whether or not a year-long waiting list for an MRI is in our future.

I actually have to disagree with that one. I've been with and without insurance for long stretches in my life. But the majority I was underinsured. Here is an example:

I walk into the ER with insurance. Have various tests and a CAT scan. I pay my $150 deductible. Then come all the insurance rejections because the hospital is a participating provider, but every doctor in the hospital is not (WTF????? Seriously TRUE STORY). I receive bill after bill for doctors and radiologists. I ask for help and get nothing "because I am lucky and have insurance". I end up paying almost $4k additional out of pocket and my credit gets ruined because I couldn't afford it.

Uninsured relative goes into same ER. Has CAT Scan, EKG, etc. Gets big bill from hospital and doctors. Calls them up and says "Help me I have no insurance." All people settle and lower their bills. They pay $750 out of pocket for the visit on a payment plan. Credit remains in tact.

And don't think that getting you a job with medical coverage anymore will give you any relief. Most healthcare plans require a $2500 deductible for a single (and as much as $6200 for a family) deductible before they will cover a dime. The health insurance market in the US is extremely scary now. Unless you have loads of money and can afford a $6200 deductible on a family then you really are screwed.

I have an ankle injury that never will heal because I couldn't afford the $50/ visit co pay for physical therapy 3x a week to get it to heal properly. When I finally could afford to go once a week at $50 it really was too late and wont heal.

BrianSharpe

In the US all you'd have to do is go to the ED.

Not everywhere in Canada has a year waiting time just so you are aware. My mom got her MRI within a couple days of needing it in Halifax.

And a lot depends on the perceived urgency.

I had a trip to the hospital on Christmas day a number of years ago and had a CAT scan within an hour of arrival and an MRI shortly thereafter when the CAT scan showed nothing (and this was in Quebec where, reputedly we have the worst healthcare in Canada)

Thanks to socialized medicine no hospital bill, no co-pays, deductibles etc but I recognize taxpayer funded and free are not the same thing.

mensasu

Emergency rooms in the U.S. of A. are only required to stabilize patients. They are not required to run down a diagnosis. My uninsured son injured his ankle about 10 years ago. All the ER doc did was take x-rays to ensure it wasn't broken, then sent him on his way with the advice to take Tylenol or Advil for pain. He still has trouble with that ankle.

Oh, and they sent the bill to collections, which added fees to it. It took him a couple of years to pay it off.

Emergency rooms in Canada are also to stabilize patients. My mother got quite a lecture about how unless there was continuing risk of death that they had to monitor she should expect to be sent home and follow up with her family doctor the next morning. They do what they feel is due diligence to ensure you can breathe on your own, you aren't bleeding internally/externally and that your heart is beating then its out the door.

kenazfehu

P.S: I've worked for hospitals most of my adult life and know what I'm talking about. Only a public hospital is required to stabilize you if you go to the E.R. A private hospital is not.

I think basic healthcare should be available for everyone. It's available to those in prison. Hmmm, that might just become my retirement plan.

Lookingforfitat40

Sorry OP, don't feel too bad for you. My husband is Canadian and has had the privilege of experiencing both systems of healthcare.

We just don't go to the Dr. I have random mystery pains that I'm worried are either my gallbladder or liver. Doesn't matter, I can't go to any Dr about it, can't afford it. I had a heart condition while pregnant, can't afford to get it checked out again. A large chunk of my dad's bicep muscle popped loose last year, it's still wadded up in a ball around his shoulder, can't do anything about it.

My husband's work actually offers insurance, BUT, it's almost half of what he earns every week. He takes home around $500 a week as a certified welder with ten years of experience, but health insurance would be $225.

If I had to go get an MRI, it would be at least $5000. They are crazy expensive around here.

Here in the states, if you've got a painful knee and no insurance, you pop tylenol or advil, take it easy for the next few months and hope it heals itself. Can't afford $5000 for an MRI on a knee, heck, crutches are cheaper.

I'm sure this will be reported but.....


Why did you get pregnant with no way of obtaining medical attention unless someone else paid for it...i.e...taxpayers?

tonightokayalright

Emergency rooms in the U.S. of A. are only required to stabilize patients. They are not required to run down a diagnosis. My uninsured son injured his ankle about 10 years ago. All the ER doc did was take x-rays to ensure it wasn't broken, then sent him on his way with the advice to take Tylenol or Advil for pain. He still has trouble with that ankle.

Oh, and they sent the bill to collections, which added fees to it. It took him a couple of years to pay it off.

Emergency rooms in Canada are also to stabilize patients. My mother got quite a lecture about how unless there was continuing risk of death that they had to monitor she should expect to be sent home and follow up with her family doctor the next morning. They do what they feel is due diligence to ensure you can breathe on your own, you aren't bleeding internally/externally and that your heart is beating then its out the door.

It's not that way in the city I live in. There are several tiers of facilities. We have family doctor's offices (if you're lucky enough to have one), medicentres, healthcare centres, and hospitals. All will take you for whatever ailment if you're willing to sit around long enough.

HurricaneElaine

I had a similar situation. My lower leg swelled up like a parade balloon. I could barely walk. My 79-year-old Mom had to help me into the ER at Melrose-Wakefield Hospital. I have insurance through my work, Blue Cross at the time - the ER actually REFUSED to even look at me unless I coughed up $150. I had no cash on me, the one credit card I had was maxed - finally I caved and handed my debit card over, and they promptly cleaned out my checking account. After triage and a half-dozen VERY PAINFUL X-rays (you should have seen me trying to hold my leg in place, literally screaming HURRY UP, THIS IS KILLING ME) - they found NOTHING and sent me home. Ice, elevation, low-sodium diet - it hasn't flared up again. Thank God.