Calling all cardio vs weights know it alls ;-)

nailtechbec

So.......doing what I'm doing is fine for now and will help me tone but once im stronger I can don a Lycra two piece get a spray tan and start doing gorilla presses with 80kg weights !! X

DavPul

Push-ups, squats, planks, etc. are examples of exercises. But merely doing them does not mean that you have done the strength training we are speaking of. We're talking about an entire routine designed to build a foundation of strength for the whole body. I can drop down and do 100 pushups right now. That doesn't mean I've strength trained.

You're naming legit exercises. But the conversation is about legit programs

That's interesting because I have increased my strength by doing these exercises. There are also many experts in their field that would vehemently disagree with you. Strength training is about training your body to be stronger. Any exercise that accomplishes that goal can be considered strength training. Putting those exercises into a regimen would certainly be called a program. You are correct on that point.

Just because *YOU* can do 100 push-ups doesn't mean that a newbie couldn't increase their strength with them.

I don't think there's a single expert in anything that would say that doing some pushups is a complete strength training program. Feel free to post links if you find some. And did the OP say she was doing a regimen of bodyweight exercises or did was she asking about dvds?

I never said you can't get stronger, I said that you listed exercises but we were talking about programs. You're showing up with flour and sugar. We showed up with a cake with icing. There's a difference. What, you think I was born doing 100 pushups? No, I had to train at it and get stronger at it. Still. Not. A. Strength. Training. Program.

Yogi_Carl

Yep - that's about it. I've enjoyed this thread - interesting ride!

Note to DaPul - good answer, thanks. For me, the progression through bodyweight exercises is nearer what floats my own personal boat, but I agree - once you have outgrown the more conventional bodyweigth exercises most folks would be best and safer getting under some free weights. For me it's more about the challenge of flipping from Downward Dog to full Yoga Wheel while balancing a pair of pink dumbbells on each elbow - each to their own.

clobercow

Intense lifting IS the best cardio workout you an get.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=2PdJFbjWHEU#t=3763s

T_X_L

For the ladies: http://rachelcosgrove.com/

Nuff said.

MariaChele85

If she power cleans that I'll be really impressed

It's crossfit pic. She'll probably fall over

More likely break her wrist - she is using a mixed grip for deadlifts.

I was trying to figure it out, I thought she might impart a spin and drop one end.

Whats wrong with the way she is lifting? Thats how I lift my dead lifts......one over one under

baptiste565

This is weight lifting:


This is not:

luv it

WendyTerry420

Push-ups, squats, planks, etc. are examples of exercises. But merely doing them does not mean that you have done the strength training we are speaking of. We're talking about an entire routine designed to build a foundation of strength for the whole body. I can drop down and do 100 pushups right now. That doesn't mean I've strength trained.

You're naming legit exercises. But the conversation is about legit programs

That's interesting because I have increased my strength by doing these exercises. There are also many experts in their field that would vehemently disagree with you. Strength training is about training your body to be stronger. Any exercise that accomplishes that goal can be considered strength training. Putting those exercises into a regimen would certainly be called a program. You are correct on that point.

Just because *YOU* can do 100 push-ups doesn't mean that a newbie couldn't increase their strength with them.

I don't think there's a single expert in anything that would say that doing some pushups is a complete strength training program. Feel free to post links if you find some. And did the OP say she was doing a regimen of bodyweight exercises or did was she asking about dvds?

I never said you can't get stronger, I said that you listed exercises but we were talking about programs. You're showing up with flour and sugar. We showed up with a cake with icing. There's a difference. What, you think I was born doing 100 pushups? No, I had to train at it and get stronger at it. Still. Not. A. Strength. Training. Program.

I didn't say it was a complete program. So again, I agree with that point. (You must have missed that the first time when I agreed that it's not a complete program.)

So it looks like we agree. That's great! :flowerforyou:

_binary_jester_

This is weight lifting:


This is not:

Thank you for perpetuating the myth that how much you lift is important. I guess at the end of my set, when I am doing 20lb curls, I am not lifting anymore, but doing cardio.

Yogi_Carl

If she power cleans that I'll be really impressed

It's crossfit pic. She'll probably fall over

More likely break her wrist - she is using a mixed grip for deadlifts.

I was trying to figure it out, I thought she might impart a spin and drop one end.

Whats wrong with the way she is lifting? Thats how I lift my dead lifts......one over one under

I was going to say the same thing. I don't lift now, but thirty years ago (:blushing: ) that's how I was taught - to stop you leaning over the bar or leaning too far back, we were taught to do one under one over to equal out the grip and stance and swap hand grips over the next set to balance out the sides.

myofibril

Hi, I've read loads of posts about weight training being better than cardio and I can come up with my own conclusions about the fact I should be doing both what I want to know is are workouts such as jillians banish fat boost metabolism and no more trouble zones doing both in her circuits ? When you all say weight training does this count or do I need to get my Arnie on and actually start bench pressing my kids ? Thanks in advance for your advice x x

It depends on what your goals are really. I don't know much about Jillian Michael's products but metabolic circuits use both elements of high intensity cardio and resistance ("weight" training). The issue is combining the two has a dilution effect - you don't get the maximum benefits in comparison to doing both separately.

However it is an undeniable fact that you can get a great physique and be plenty strong for day to day activities without ever lifting a barbell or doing any traditional cardio like running or cycling.

Ross Enamait's methods are a classic example of this.

sarah44254

Please do bench press your kids. Make sure you introduce them to Arnie (so stoked you referenced him!). This will give fabulous quality time to you and your kids, as well as really help your muscle health as I'm sure the kids are 20+ lbs or maybe even 60lbs each! (and they wiggle and laugh once you have them in the air so that really increases the difficulty!)

in short, yeah, lift heavier things than what you find in jillian michaels dvds. you'll like the results

WendyTerry420

But in the beginning, when lifting a gallon of milk is difficult, especially for an obese person, then body weight exercises to strengthen your core can also be highly efficient.

I respect submit that if a person can't even pour themselves a gallon of milk, they can't lift enough food to their mouths to become obese in the first place. Who are these invalids? My 5 year old daughter can lift a gallon of milk. I thought we were talking about healthy people. Are we talking about the sick and shut in? The elderly? Can they even push their mouse around for thier cpu so that they can navigate around the screen to follow this conversation?

Yes, many obese persons are practically invalids. However, a spoonful of food does not weigh as much as a full gallon of milk. (Mind you, if as the gallon empties, it is easier to handle.) Personally, I got my kids to do a LOT of things for me. I let myself become a total weakling. It got to where lifting a load of laundry was painful.

It may be difficult for body-builder types to comprehend, but there are many people like myself that became obese out of sheer laziness. And since I am poor, I had to devise a way to gain strength without spending any money. So I read "The New Rules of Lifting for Women," (which is where I learned about modified push-ups that actually increase strength, unlike the "knee version") as well as reading things online like "You Are Your Own Gym" and bodybuilding.com plus others and, of course, YouTube.

I learn by reading, so I actually read a lot about strength training before I ever got started. Not only can I lift a gallon of milk without pain in my wrist, I can now do jumping jacks and many other exercises that I could never have done when I first started. I thank the Thirty Day Shred for the bulk of it. That program also burned more fat than any other I've tried yet, while increasing my strength at the same time. It's an excellent program for beginners like me.

WendyTerry420

So.......doing what I'm doing is fine for now and will help me tone but once im stronger I can don a Lycra two piece get a spray tan and start doing gorilla presses with 80kg weights !! X

:drinker:

It won't take long.

WendyTerry420

Yep - that's about it. I've enjoyed this thread - interesting ride!

Note to DaPul - good answer, thanks. For me, the progression through bodyweight exercises is nearer what floats my own personal boat, but I agree - once you have outgrown the more conventional bodyweigth exercises most folks would be best and safer getting under some free weights. For me it's more about the challenge of flipping from Downward Dog to full Yoga Wheel while balancing a pair of pink dumbbells on each elbow - each to their own.

That's an awesome mental image!

Yogi_Carl

"However it is an undeniable fact that you can get a great physique and be plenty strong for day to day activities without ever lifting a barbell or doing any traditional cardio like running or cycling.

Ross Enamait's methods are a classic example of this."

Thanks "msf4" - I looked on You Tube for Ross Enamait and there's loads of awesome stuff going on there.

Wendy - I was joking about the pink dumbbells, but we do have an exercise where we flip from Downward Dog to full Wheel in yoga. It's locally called "Wild Thing"! Disclaimer: Spinal flexibility is essential!

God - I love this forum when it works!

Sarauk2sf

If she power cleans that I'll be really impressed

It's crossfit pic. She'll probably fall over

More likely break her wrist - she is using a mixed grip for deadlifts.

I was trying to figure it out, I thought she might impart a spin and drop one end.

Whats wrong with the way she is lifting? Thats how I lift my dead lifts......one over one under

I was going to say the same thing. I don't lift now, but thirty years ago (:blushing: ) that's how I was taught - to stop you leaning over the bar or leaning too far back, we were taught to do one under one over to equal out the grip and stance and swap hand grips over the next set to balance out the sides.

Actually, in power lifting you should only used mixed on the last set or so and only if you need it. Not sure about crossfit though - probably makes sense as its higher reps so your hands would get sweaty.

Sarauk2sf

If she power cleans that I'll be really impressed

It's crossfit pic. She'll probably fall over

More likely break her wrist - she is using a mixed grip for deadlifts.

I was trying to figure it out, I thought she might impart a spin and drop one end.

Whats wrong with the way she is lifting? Thats how I lift my dead lifts......one over one under

I was addressing the comment about doing a power clean using that grip (see the other posts in this string). As I noted above, generally it is only recommended to do mixed grip on your final set for power lifting. I have no idea about crossfit as I do not do it.

Sarauk2sf

Intense lifting IS the best cardio workout you an get.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=2PdJFbjWHEU#t=3763s

Huh?

SabrinaJL

Not only can I lift a gallon of milk without pain in my wrist, I can now do jumping jacks and many other exercises that I could never have done when I first started. I thank the Thirty Day Shred for the bulk of it. That program also burned more fat than any other I've tried yet, while increasing my strength at the same time. It's an excellent program for beginners like me.

I agree 100%. I started out with 30DS and I was so out of shape, I only got through 12 minutes (using 3 lb weights) and almost threw up. I lost all 60 lbs doing 30DS and c25k. So the strength/not strength debate aside, it is an effective workout up to a certain point. I don't regret starting out with it.

Yogi_Carl

Opposed grip on Deadlift: Thank you Sara, understood.

breezedaze

I don't have access to a gym. So I did Insanity. But that's mad hard on the body, particularly the joints though I am so incredibly pleased with my rockin' shoulders and legs.

I'm doing some Jillian stuff now.

And I cannot wait to get back to pumping iron.

I hate cardio first of all(boring) but I could pump weights for hours, love watching myself get stronger and stronger and just love feeling powerful.

Results wise I do far better with weights and it's safer and I enjoy it more.

I cannot wait to get back to it in a month or so. I will then have access to a professional weight lifter who is going to just help me train(I'm a novice for the most part in that any personal trainers I have had didn't really focus on weights.)

I won't entirely stop cardio...but I'll not be doing it for weight loss or anything, I'll just be doing it for my heart and health.

I love muscles...and no I don't expect to get all bulky...just tight, lean, fit and strong. I love that feeling of being compact and firm and the fat just seems to go away.

Just my experience. Take it for what it's worth.

jnr2012

bump

MoreBean13

I am sensing a serious misunderstanding here- the OP asked if Jillian's DVDs can take the place of weight training, as she has learned from the boards that both weight training and cardio are important. Fact is, they can't. The methodology does not qualify as weight lifting, and they don't incorporate enough progressive overload and the reps are way too high. They are cardio with resistance. You won't get the same hormonal response or benefits as a weight lifting program. For a *very* inactive person, they might qualify for a *very* short time, like a week or two.

Now, I feel like people are taking this answer and acting like we're saying that there are *no* benefits to doing these workouts- that's not true AT ALL! Nobody is saying that they're not beneficial, and that they won't improve your overall fitness- they WILL. They're just not weight training, which was the original question. Nobody said they weren't hard- I'm sure they are! But because something is hard, doesn't make it *the same* as weight training. They have different benefits.

I just got home from the gym- I ran 6.5 miles today. It was hard. It was good for my health. It will improve my fitness. But it's not weight lifting. But, running is so obviously cardio that maybe I can give you a different example. Take the Arc machine. You can turn the resistance up to 100, and have a hard-*kitten* lower body workout where each step is a challenge to move. It's high resistance, but it's still easy to see that it's a cardio workout with resistance. That's the level that the DVDs are at- hard-*kitten* cardio with resistance- but not weight lifting. I wish people wouldn't get so sensitive that they think that answering a question is somehow attacking their workouts and calling them useless.

AsaraFuriosa

Bump

Sarauk2sf

I am sensing a serious misunderstanding here- the OP asked if Jillian's DVDs can take the place of weight training, as she has learned from the boards that both weight training and cardio are important. Fact is, they can't. The methodology does not qualify as weight lifting, and they don't incorporate enough progressive overload and the reps are way too high. They are cardio with resistance. You won't get the same hormonal response or benefits as a weight lifting program. For a *very* inactive person, they might qualify for a *very* short time, like a week or two.

Now, I feel like people are taking this answer and acting like we're saying that there are *no* benefits to doing these workouts- that's not true AT ALL! Nobody is saying that they're not beneficial, and that they won't improve your overall fitness- they WILL. They're just not weight training, which was the original question. Nobody said they weren't hard- I'm sure they are! But because something is hard, doesn't make it *the same* as weight training. They have different benefits.

I just got home from the gym- I ran 6.5 miles today. It was hard. It was good for my health. It will improve my fitness. But it's not weight lifting. But, running is so obviously cardio that maybe I can give you a different example. Take the Arc machine. You can turn the resistance up to 100, and have a hard-*kitten* lower body workout where each step is a challenge to move. It's high resistance, but it's still easy to see that it's a cardio workout with resistance. That's the level that the DVDs are at- hard-*kitten* cardio with resistance- but not weight lifting. I wish people wouldn't get so sensitive that they think that answering a question is somehow attacking their workouts and calling them useless.

Well said as usual Bean.

DavPul

But in the beginning, when lifting a gallon of milk is difficult, especially for an obese person, then body weight exercises to strengthen your core can also be highly efficient.

I respectfully submit that if a person can't even pour themselves a gallon of milk, they can't lift enough food to their mouths to become obese in the first place. Who are these invalids? My 5 year old daughter can lift a gallon of milk. I thought we were talking about healthy people. Are we talking about the sick and shut in? The elderly? Can they even push their mouse around for thier cpu so that they can navigate around the screen to follow this conversation?

Yes, many obese persons are practically invalids. However, a spoonful of food does not weigh as much as a full gallon of milk. (Mind you, if as the gallon empties, it is easier to handle.) Personally, I got my kids to do a LOT of things for me. I let myself become a total weakling. It got to where lifting a load of laundry was painful.

It may be difficult for body-builder types to comprehend, but there are many people like myself that became obese out of sheer laziness. And since I am poor, I had to devise a way to gain strength without spending any money. So I read "The New Rules of Lifting for Women," (which is where I learned about modified push-ups that actually increase strength, unlike the "knee version") as well as reading things online like "You Are Your Own Gym" and bodybuilding.com plus others and, of course, YouTube.

I learn by reading, so I actually read a lot about strength training before I ever got started. Not only can I lift a gallon of milk without pain in my wrist, I can now do jumping jacks and many other exercises that I could never have done when I first started. I thank the Thirty Day Shred for the bulk of it. That program also burned more fat than any other I've tried yet, while increasing my strength at the same time. It's an excellent program for beginners like me.

What does ANY of this have to do with the OP? How can I debate you fairly if you're going to bring in outside issues that have nothing to do with the OP? I'm not trying to hijack the thread, I'm trying to address the questions raised in the OP. I'm in no way making light of your or anyone else's situation, but we were talking about a young, healthy person and if she can count 30DS (or similar) as weight lifting. But now we're on this slippery slope where picking up paper clips can be strenuous to a particular individual under a certain situation and a special day and time. Sure, I agree with that. But how does it help the OP?

DavPul

For me it's more about the challenge of flipping from Downward Dog to full Yoga Wheel while balancing a pair of pink dumbbells on each elbow - each to their own.

Carlos! How the heck did you manage to slip yoga into this conversation! You're like a machine!

Yogi_Carl

For me it's more about the challenge of flipping from Downward Dog to full Yoga Wheel while balancing a pair of pink dumbbells on each elbow - each to their own.

Carlos! How the heck did you manage to slip yoga into this conversation! You're like a machine!

Sorry - it was the pink dumbbells that triggered it! I was doing this one just the other day - it's not weightlifting but I'll bet there's a DVD about it - so it's valid. K?

ixap

Yes, many obese persons are practically invalids. However, a spoonful of food does not weigh as much as a full gallon of milk. (Mind you, if as the gallon empties, it is easier to handle.) Personally, I got my kids to do a LOT of things for me. I let myself become a total weakling. It got to where lifting a load of laundry was painful.

Yes, and for these people, exercises like pushups would definitely be useful as strength training.

However, the question posted in this thread was "are workouts like the Jillian dvds sufficient as strength training" -- safe to say that someone so deconditioned that they cannot pour their own milk are also not in any condition to be doing this type of dvd either, right?

I agree with the above answers that, no, doing these workout dvds cannot take the place of a lifting program if your goal is to get significantly stronger and change your body composition by building muscle.