Serious medical question below....
Charlie003
Posts: 1,333 Member
in Chit-Chat
Versed, otherwise known as Midazolam, is a medication that is commonly given to patients undergoing outpatient surgical procedures. It’s primary use is that of an amnesiac drug, or a drug that will cause you to forget. What many patients are not aware of is that if you are given Versed it does not necessarily mean that you will not have pain, but it may cause you to forget pain. Most of the time patients have no difficulties with the fentanyl/versed combination. However, because of Versed’s effect on the memory, some patients report memory issues for months and years after having a procedure done, and in most of the reported cases, these patients were not adequately informed about the possibility that Versed could cause some longer term memory issues. Additionally, I have heard of some patients who reported mood issues and anxiety for weeks or months after taking the drug. Now, every drug can certainly have side effects and each drug can effect a patient differently, but I believe it is the absolute right of every patient to know in advance of a procedure the types of sedation that will be used, and the right to question their physician and ask for an alternative form of sedation to be used, if the “normally used” method is not an acceptable risk to the patient.
Does this mean, I could have been screaming in agony, and then just open my eyes like I did and think I was unconscious.
Has anyone gone though a procedure, been given this drug while someone you knew was in the room so that they could tell you what you were doing since you are not uncounscious just not able to remember, which in the end is almost the same thing?
Does this mean, I could have been screaming in agony, and then just open my eyes like I did and think I was unconscious.
Has anyone gone though a procedure, been given this drug while someone you knew was in the room so that they could tell you what you were doing since you are not uncounscious just not able to remember, which in the end is almost the same thing?
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Or medical personal who have witnessed this drug administered and what the patients were like while the procedure was done.0
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I don't remember taking it...0
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I'm no medic but I would have thought that most surgeons would not feel confortable carrying out a procedure if the patient was screaming in agony, whether they would remember it or not.
But that's just my opinion, the truth might be entirely different!0 -
When I had a radial head excursion, they told me that they would be administering a med that would make me forget. From that point, I remember nothing until I woke up in my room following the surgery. I had no ongoing side effects. I am not sure I am referring to the same med as you as though, as it was not and outpatient procedure and I was also under anesthesia.
Like someone else side, someone screaming out in pain would be a distraction.0 -
I'm no medic but I would have thought that most surgeons would not feel confortable carrying out a procedure if the patient was screaming in agony, whether they would remember it or not.
But that's just my opinion, the truth might be entirely different!
Perhaps"screaming in agony" was a little strong.0 -
I don't believe that medical ethics would allow a medication to be used that caused a patient to experience intense pain but just not remember it. (Pain, yes. Intense pain, no.) The effects of exposure to intense pain on even implicit memory are too well documented. Plus, if the person was not paralyzed from the medicine, it would be way too risky to perform the procedure.0
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They used this on my niece who'd was about 8 at the time. She broke both of the bones in her lower arm, clean break but required setting. They had given her morphine for pain and her heart rate slowed too much (she was very small for her age). After putting a crash cart by her bed (very scary!!) and waiting for the morphine to peak, they determined this was the best drug for them to use when they set her arm. There was screaming (like someone was killing her). It was very unsettling for me and my brother (who were both standing outside the room). But she doesn't remember a thing about it. Luckily no side effects from it though.0
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I've worked in healthcare for a while, and I've undergone surgery myself as well as taking care of patients receiving versed. Honestly, in the case of conscious sedation (fentanyl and versed is generally used for procedures like colonoscopy, etc), the patient is generally out cold the whole time, and doesn't remember even going into the operating room. A common comment when waking up is "Is it almost time to go in??" and they are shocked to learn that they are already done.
I don't know about the long term side effects. I've never had a patient complain, and I didn't experience anything long term myself! So all I can really say is that, in my experience, I haven't noticed this to be true!0 -
I know I was under some anestetic. I just find It weird that I went through a 30 min procedure awake, and remember nothing. I was conscious, but do not remember the 30 min. It is weird. Not like if you were asleep. So, maybe if there is a nurse here, who has witnessed people on this, can describe how they behaved when on this stuff, and then not remembering.0
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I should clarify my post is for people who are not already in intense pain. The little girl's situation as described above is different, because unfortunately the poor thing was already in intense pain.0
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(almost) Everyone that comes through for a colonoscopy, or an endoscopy, or an epidural injection, and some orthopedic procedures. I have not heard anyone screaming in the operating room, so if they were in a "screaming" amount of pain they didn't show it. It was given to my 3 year old why they set and casted a fracture of her leg, she didn't scream or cry, but just was really drowsy and giggly. I agree everyone she be informed, but my personal experience is that no one has made verbal their pain. I had it for a lithotripsy (kidney stone procedure) and I don't remember a thing.0
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i WAS TOLD i WAS GOING TO HAVE ANESTETIC and would not feel much, I did not know I was getting amnesia drug, and that I would not remember what I was feeling.0
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I've assisted with many, many conscious sedation procedures, specifically cardioversions and TEEs. No, you were not screaming or writhing in agony. No one would do a procedure, Versed or not, on someone who was in that much pain. Were you uncomfortable? Maybe. That's why you received Versed.
Even general anesthesia consists of 3 components: pain control, a paralytic, and a sedative/anxiolytic.
Did you suffer greatly during your procedure? If not, stop creating psychological drama for yourself and move on. If it was a procedure that only required Versed, it was relatively minor. Move on. Really.0 -
I've assisted with many, many conscious sedation procedures, specifically cardioversions and TEEs. No, you were not screaming or writhing in agony. No one would do a procedure, Versed or not, on someone who was in that much pain. Were you uncomfortable? Maybe. That's why you received Versed.
Even general anesthesia consists of 3 components: pain control, a paralytic, and a sedative/anxiolytic.
Did you suffer greatly during your procedure? If not, stop creating psychological drama for yourself and move on. If it was a procedure that only required Versed, it was relatively minor. Move on. Really.
Ummmmm.....okay, thanks. S what you are saying is that curiosity is not allowed?0 -
Did you suffer greatly during your procedure? If not, stop creating psychological drama for yourself and move on. If it was a procedure that only required Versed, it was relatively minor. Move on. Really.
Kinda agree with this!0 -
I work in a hospital setting, specifically with pharmaceuticals. We use large quantities of midazolam, almost all in the surgical areas. I am in and out of pre-op, post-op, and surgical suite sections of the facility daily. I have *never* seen nor heard a patient showing pain response, much less screaming in agony, when they were not expected to be conscious or at least coming out from under sedation. I've seen plenty of completely insensate folks. Also, consider that midazolam is NEVER given as the only agent by an anesthesiologist. Midazolam in this case is only for reducing anxiety and creating relaxation that will help prepare the patient for full sedation and intubation. It is often used in combination with fentanyl for analgesia as you mentioned, and with other drugs such as paralytics and hypnotics.
I have never heard of this drug, used properly, causing more than targeted memory loss, certainly not unexpected loss of long term memory. I believe that side effect is only caused by overdosing without appropriate monitoring and response to the situation or abuse of the drug. And that tends to be because the dose caused relaxation so extreme as to depress respiration and limit oxygen to the brain. A memory loss side effect is certainly not getting reported through any of the hospital pharmacies in which I've worked in the past decade.
Sounds to me like someone is yanking your chain and trying play on your fears or sensationalize any possible poor outcome. Best thing for you to do is be honest and complete in your medical and drug history when being treated by any doctor, careful to include even over-the-counter meds and supplements of any type to help identify possible drug interactions. There are some legitimate reasons to choose different agents based on patient history, so make sure your provider is informed so that they make the best choices for you.0 -
Did you suffer greatly during your procedure? If not, stop creating psychological drama for yourself and move on. If it was a procedure that only required Versed, it was relatively minor. Move on. Really.
Kinda agree with this!
I am not having drama. I am just trying to figure out the mechanics. Could I have been having a conversation, or whatever, then blink my eyes and not remember? I like to question things. It is how I learn.0 -
I work in a hospital setting, specifically with pharmaceuticals. We use large quantities of midazolam, almost all in the surgical areas. I am in and out of pre-op, post-op, and surgical suite sections of the facility daily. I have *never* seen nor heard a patient showing pain response, much less screaming in agony, when they were not expected to be conscious or at least coming out from under sedation. I've seen plenty of completely insensate folks. Also, consider that midazolam is NEVER given as the only agent by an anesthesiologist. Midazolam in this case is only for reducing anxiety and creating relaxation that will help prepare the patient for full sedation and intubation. It is often used in combination with fentanyl for analgesia as you mentioned, and with other drugs such as paralytics and hypnotics.
I have never heard of this drug, used properly, causing more than targeted memory loss, certainly not unexpected loss of long term memory. I believe that side effect is only caused by overdosing without appropriate monitoring and response to the situation or abuse of the drug. And that tends to be because the dose caused relaxation so extreme as to depress respiration and limit oxygen to the brain. A memory loss side effect is certainly not getting reported through any of the hospital pharmacies in which I've worked in the past decade.
Sounds to me like someone is yanking your chain and trying play on your fears or sensationalize any possible poor outcome. Best thing for you to do is be honest and complete in your medical and drug history when being treated by any doctor, careful to include even over-the-counter meds and supplements of any type to help identify possible drug interactions. There are some legitimate reasons to choose different agents based on patient history, so make sure your provider is informed so that they make the best choices for you.
No one is yanking my chain. I am just curious.0 -
If its a serious medical question, surely this isn.t the place to find an answer?0
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I have been a nurse for 31 years, and routinely give conscious sedation (Versed), which is almost always given in combination with Fentanyl for analgesia. Have I seen patients very uncomfortable with the procedure while under sedation - yes. Screaming in agony - no. More medication would be administered or the procedure aborted at that point. If a procedure cannot be preformed without extreme agony for a patient (whether they can remember it or not) general anesthesia or deep sedation would be used. This requires an anesthesiologist.
I will tell you that in Alzheimer's it is recommended that Versed not be used d/t memory issues, as the used of Versed could potentiate the memory loss already being experienced. This is a concern especially in early Alzheimer's where there is still much function left.
I've had Versed, and do not remember anything of the procedure or the immediate time afterwards - including going out to eat on the way home. As we say in the medical field - Versed is a wonderful drug!0 -
They used this on my niece who'd was about 8 at the time. She broke both of the bones in her lower arm, clean break but required setting. They had given her morphine for pain and her heart rate slowed too much (she was very small for her age). After putting a crash cart by her bed (very scary!!) and waiting for the morphine to peak, they determined this was the best drug for them to use when they set her arm. There was screaming (like someone was killing her). It was very unsettling for me and my brother (who were both standing outside the room). But she doesn't remember a thing about it. Luckily no side effects from it though.
Something similar happened with my son - about the same age - broken arm that had to be rebroken then set - not sure if it was the same drug but he screamed like he was being murdered and has no memory of it - everyone there does though. I didnt agree with the drug then and still dont - but Im sure it's 'safer' than using a complete anasthesia on children0 -
If its a serious medical question, surely this isn.t the place to find an answer?
I am looking for peoples experiences. I suppose I could just google it.0 -
Okay, forget the statement of agony, since it seems to be distracting everyone from the question.0
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I've been an ICU nurse for 15 years. As others have said, when performing a procedure or placing a patient on the ventilator, we generally want to keep our patients CALM, quiet, and comfortable. Versed, often along with fentanyl (for pain), does the trick.0
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As a paramedic I have administered versed several times. The most common effect is that the patient is sleepy, slurs words and generally seems intoxicated. As a patient, I have been given versed several times before surgery and each time, the last thing I remember is being wheeled into the OR. I didn't have any negative effects afterwards. If you're really concerned, just ask the CRNA or anesthesiologist what to expect before they administer it to you.0
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The only experience I can tell you is that I couldn't wait for them to give me that drug because they told me it would help alleviate my anxiety and help me rest before the actual anesthesia was administered. I was very uncomfortable with all the tubes and felt very impatient waiting for them to administer it. I remember feeling it going in my arm from the IV and talking to the nurse about it being cold and painful. The next thing I remember is waking up in the recovery room. I believe I remember everything after waking up, since people told me things they expected I wouldn't remember, but I did.0
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Did you suffer greatly during your procedure? If not, stop creating psychological drama for yourself and move on. If it was a procedure that only required Versed, it was relatively minor. Move on. Really.
Kinda agree with this!
I am not having drama. I am just trying to figure out the mechanics. Could I have been having a conversation, or whatever, then blink my eyes and not remember? I like to question things. It is how I learn.
Yes, you could have been in a somewhat awake state. During TEEs, we use Versed because we need the patient to be awake enough to be able to follow basic commands and assist in swallowing when we are inserting the probe. Often, they are uncomfortable and have an active gag reflex, but are able to swallow on command. Sometimes they move around and have some discomfort. They do not remember it afterwards.0 -
They used this on my niece who'd was about 8 at the time. She broke both of the bones in her lower arm, clean break but required setting. They had given her morphine for pain and her heart rate slowed too much (she was very small for her age). After putting a crash cart by her bed (very scary!!) and waiting for the morphine to peak, they determined this was the best drug for them to use when they set her arm. There was screaming (like someone was killing her). It was very unsettling for me and my brother (who were both standing outside the room). But she doesn't remember a thing about it. Luckily no side effects from it though.
Something similar happened with my son - about the same age - broken arm that had to be rebroken then set - not sure if it was the same drug but he screamed like he was being murdered and has no memory of it - everyone there does though. I didnt agree with the drug then and still dont - but Im sure it's 'safer' than using a complete anasthesia on children
I was unsettled by the pain she was in but she doesn't remember any of it so for her it's like it never happened. We were told everything beforehand but not allowed in the room for the procedure (in fact they said family members sometimes had strong reactions and they locked the door after we were out). She was "very" comfortable after that though and didn't even mind them putting the cast on (prior to that anyone touching her had her crying even with the morphine). I trust that the doctor weighed all the pros and cons when deciding what medication was best to use (specially after her reaction to the morphine). It was a better option than settling it with the morphine alone (she would have remembered that I'm sure!).0 -
They gave it to my husband when he was having his vasectomy. He was very uncomfortable during his surgery. I was right there with him the entire time and he kept flinching in pain and asking for more pain meds, it really hurt him. He doesn't remember anything though. That experience is why I laughed at my doctor when he wanted me to have a colonoscopy and said I wouldn't remember anything. Um I don't care if I won't remember it if I am going to be in pain while it is happening. That doesn't make me feel any better about it. You either put me out so I don't feel pain, or I don't have the procedure. Period.0
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Every drug has some kind of possible side effects. ASK your doctor. Also any good physician/surgeon/anesthetist will be paying attention and should be able to notice signs of pain. Just remember it is your right to be informed and information is available.0
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