Not seeing the scale move
Slim140
Posts: 66 Member
i have been tracking for the last 3 months. I have gone up and down and the last up was when i went on vacation in mid September. The scale showed a momentary gain to 191 lbs.. ( I think that before I left I was 185). i say that because i know that when I eat a lot on vacation i gain temporary weight and it goes away within 3 or 4 days. I can accurately say that I probably weigh 187 lbs after those couple of days. 2 weeks later i was down to 183 and today the scale has been stuck at 180 - 181 lbs. Except for one day that it showed 179.
I must also mentioned that i have been training with a trainer for the last 6 weeks and have lost 3 inches of my waist, went from 34 to 31' my thighs went from 26 to 24.5 and my hips went from 44 to 42. I haven't seen any inches losses on my arms which are at 13 inches with wings (yuck).
Even though there is a slight progress i feel its too slow and that perhaps i am not working hard enough or eating the wrong things. I walk/hike 4x a week with the weekend hike at 5 miles. I train with the trainer 2x to 3x a week and my calories after my exercises are between 900 to 1200.
I have been stuck at 180-182 for over a month and it is discouraging to see the scale not move. At the rate I am going it will probably take me 3 years to get to my goal weight of 150 lbs . My height is 5'7 and i need a little padding as I am older and don't want to get winkles and lose skin.
i need some encouragement. When I read the success stories, people usually lose 30 lbs in a matter of 3 months..What am II doing wrong??
I must also mentioned that i have been training with a trainer for the last 6 weeks and have lost 3 inches of my waist, went from 34 to 31' my thighs went from 26 to 24.5 and my hips went from 44 to 42. I haven't seen any inches losses on my arms which are at 13 inches with wings (yuck).
Even though there is a slight progress i feel its too slow and that perhaps i am not working hard enough or eating the wrong things. I walk/hike 4x a week with the weekend hike at 5 miles. I train with the trainer 2x to 3x a week and my calories after my exercises are between 900 to 1200.
I have been stuck at 180-182 for over a month and it is discouraging to see the scale not move. At the rate I am going it will probably take me 3 years to get to my goal weight of 150 lbs . My height is 5'7 and i need a little padding as I am older and don't want to get winkles and lose skin.
i need some encouragement. When I read the success stories, people usually lose 30 lbs in a matter of 3 months..What am II doing wrong??
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Replies
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Hi-
First off, plea se realize that every body is different. What works for my body may not work for yours, so don't compare! You are obviously going in the right direction, congratulate yourself on that. Weight loss takes a long time, so if you are looking for quick you are only going to be disappointed. You are working with a trainer, use their knowledge and experience. I bet they say that you are doing great.0 -
if you want to see the scale move.... then move it to a closet and dont step on it for at least a month maybe 2. go by how you feel. keep the food diary going and jjust move as much as you can. make small changes through out your day and you WILL see big results in the end!!!!! i promise you!:flowerforyou: stay positive and stay focused. you can do this. that stupid thing you stand on is just that. ..... a stupid thing to iss you off!!! dont let it!!!!0
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You have lost a goof amount of inches. Focus on that.
How accurately are you weighting, measuring and logging your food? How are your measuring the calorie burn for exercise (seems like you are eating those calories back)? How much do you eat gross?
ETA: I just checked your diary. Your calorie intake is all over the place so its hard to tell how much you are eating. My suggestion would be to try to get as close to your goal consistently. Only eat back about 75% of your exercise calories though to give some room for error. Make sure you are very careful about accurately measuring, weighing and logging all your food.0 -
I must also mentioned that i have been training with a trainer for the last 6 weeks and have lost 3 inches of my waist, went from 34 to 31' my thighs went from 26 to 24.5 and my hips went from 44 to 42. I haven't seen any inches losses on my arms which are at 13 inches with wings (yuck).
Even though there is a slight progress i feel its too slow and that perhaps i am not working hard enough or eating the wrong things. I walk/hike 4x a week with the weekend hike at 5 miles. I train with the trainer 2x to 3x a week and my calories after my exercises are between 900 to 1200.
You need to eat more - you are working out hard and showing progress in inches - and thats amazing - I work out with a trainer who told me a story about a client that had to adjust her belt by 3 loops but quit training bc the scale didnt move - throw out your scale and measure success by measuring and how your clothes feel - also 900-1200 is NOT enough cals, you need to eat more to fuel your body - your body is holding on to what little you are eating - and BE patient!!0 -
I must also mentioned that i have been training with a trainer for the last 6 weeks and have lost 3 inches of my waist, went from 34 to 31' my thighs went from 26 to 24.5 and my hips went from 44 to 42. I haven't seen any inches losses on my arms which are at 13 inches with wings (yuck).
Even though there is a slight progress i feel its too slow and that perhaps i am not working hard enough or eating the wrong things. I walk/hike 4x a week with the weekend hike at 5 miles. I train with the trainer 2x to 3x a week and my calories after my exercises are between 900 to 1200.
A temporary weight increase is not uncommon when starting a new exercise program. The inches your are losing is definitely showing progress. When you incorporate weight training into your exercise program, the scale doesn't move as quickly, but you see greater results with measurements. Stay away from the scale.
Are you only eating 900-1200 calories a day? That could be part of your problem. Eat your exercise calories back - or at least 1/2 of them if you aren't comfortable eating them all.0 -
I was stuck for about a month, couldn't get the scale to move at all. So I decided to cut the calories. HA, didn't work at all. I went from approx 1200 to 900-1000 for a week or so, nothing. Decided to try eating more, upped my cal to 1500-1600, BAM, weight started coming off again. My activity level is light - med, I work a lot at a sometimes active sometimes not job. With the exercise you are doing, I would suggest upping your calories to at least 1500. Just see what happens : ))0
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i have been tracking for the last 3 months. I have gone up and down and the last up was when i went on vacation in mid September. The scale showed a momentary gain to 191 lbs.. ( I think that before I left I was 185). i say that because i know that when I eat a lot on vacation i gain temporary weight and it goes away within 3 or 4 days. I can accurately say that I probably weigh 187 lbs after those couple of days. 2 weeks later i was down to 183 and today the scale has been stuck at 180 - 181 lbs. Except for one day that it showed 179.
I must also mentioned that i have been training with a trainer for the last 6 weeks and have lost 3 inches of my waist, went from 34 to 31' my thighs went from 26 to 24.5 and my hips went from 44 to 42. I haven't seen any inches losses on my arms which are at 13 inches with wings (yuck).
Even though there is a slight progress i feel its too slow and that perhaps i am not working hard enough or eating the wrong things. I walk/hike 4x a week with the weekend hike at 5 miles. I train with the trainer 2x to 3x a week and my calories after my exercises are between 900 to 1200.
I have been stuck at 180-182 for over a month and it is discouraging to see the scale not move. At the rate I am going it will probably take me 3 years to get to my goal weight of 150 lbs . My height is 5'7 and i need a little padding as I am older and don't want to get winkles and lose skin.
i need some encouragement. When I read the success stories, people usually lose 30 lbs in a matter of 3 months..What am II doing wrong??
Like the first commenter said everyone is different. Here is what worked for me, perhaps there will be one small thing that might help you:
We are all human. We have good days and bad days, all of our lives. The tools you find and use to get out of a funk will serve you the rest of your life, and you will always need them. I call it sharpening your sword for battle and you will always need to keep your blade sharp for the rest of your life. We may get to relax at times for a few moments, but life is a bit of work until the end.
There is nothing easy about this journey. Don't give up. Keep your eye on the prize. You do not have to be perfect to do this. You just have to have more good days than not. A bad day is not the end of the world. Tomorrow is a new day. Just pick it right up again. Be kind to yourself at all times and never beat yourself up.
Being on a calorie deficit is hard. You can't do this journey on will power alone. You must set up your environment for success. Have a team around you in your real life, not just online. Get trigger foods out of the house. It will take some sacrifice and it's not easy.
There is no mystery to weight loss, everyone thinks something is wrong, their metabolism is broken, they have low thyroid, they have menopause or whatever issue, they are as unique as a snowflake, whatever. I thought a lot of these things once too but once the doctor helped resolve the health issues for me I learned there is still no magic pill. Most people eat more than they need to and are not at good at estimating calories as they think they are. Most people have a lower BMR than they think they do. The only way to know for sure is to go to a lab and have it tested. It doesn't seem fair to have to eat less and feel a little hunger. It's hard to face the truth of it, very hard. It's not fun. It's drudgery at times. But if you learn to enjoy your smaller amounts of food (necessary to lose weight, since the reason we got fat in the first place was eating too much whether we knew it or not), and rejoice in your victories it can be done.
Your body loses weight in chunks, not linear. I have found that you can do everything right and your weight loss seems to plateau but if you are patient and keep exercising and eating at a deficit (however slight) you will lose it, it will suddenly "whoosh". There are so many variables for the scale; water retention, digestion, hormones, allergies, sodium, carbs, water intake, DOMS, inflammation, the list goes on. People mistakenly think they lose or gain weight when they eat more or less because of these fluctuations.
Losing weight requires tremendous patience. You will not lose it when you want it or where you want it. The body does its thing. Some apparent plateaus can last a month or so. You cannot make it happen faster. You must focus on two things; calories and exercise. Nothing else matters. Scales and metrics don't matter. The day in and day out grind of exercise and calories are all that matters. It is not very exciting until things fall into place. You get your victories and you ride one victory to the next.
The scale is a trend tool. The scale is good but put it away and only check once a week and only use it as a trend tool. It will fluctuate, it does not matter. Take front side and back progress pictures at least once a month. You will see differences that the metrics won't tell you and it's that little bit of NSV that will keep you going until the next victory.
As far as calories…
To say eat more is wrong.
To say eat less is wrong.
If you plug in all your info (typically age, gender, height and weight) into one of those calculators what you get is the average metabolic rate of a group of people who share your age, sex, height and weight. What you DON’T get is YOUR EXACT calorie needs. It's a place to start.
To find the exact calories needed for YOU to be in a healthy sustainable calorie deficit is the right answer. Wait, if you need to adjust by 100 do it, wait, adjust, wait, adjust, wait. The tortoise wins this race.
You want to eat as healthy as you can because it makes you feel better and perform better, and makes you healthier. There are a bunch of tricks and clean eating; reducing sugar (especially HFCS), fiber, white flour vs whole grain, low carb, low fat, on and on. All that matters is calories for weight loss. If you need to eat a certain way for health reasons or to feel better do it, but extensive good food and bad food lists will drive you insane at some point, it’s a constantly moving target. Just eat what you like, mostly healthy, mostly balanced, within a calorie budget. We all know what healthy is by now, just do it.
Also people play mental accounting games with calories just like with finances. Make steps to make sure you are making accurate measurements. Packaged foods can have MORE than they say but not less (they get in trouble if less so they would rather error with MORE).
If you typically intake sodium at a certain rate your body adjusts, but if you make a sudden change then you will see a spike.
Exercise is for making your lean body mass pretty (especially lifting weights) for when the fat is gone. Losing fat with no muscle is ugly and cardio alone will not make you pretty. You cannot out exercise too many calories.
Everyone needs resistance training to improve their health and bone density and this will especially improve your quality of life when you get older. But you will not gain all that much lean body mass as fast as everyone thinks. Guys of course will gain more. A DXA scan will prove the point. There are lots of stories about changing size but no one REALLY knows unless they do a DXA scan. Here's more about that --> http://bradpilon.com/weight-loss/intermittent-fasting-and-bulking/ this is true whether you IF or not. My DXA scans proved that I really didn't gain that much lean body mass yet I look very muscular for a female. I have very high bone density from over 30 years of lifting yet my lean body mass is still only 104 lbs and my RMR is still only 1380.
I recently had my DXA scan done and at 51.5 years of age I have the bone density of a super athletic 30 year old. That is a direct result of lifting for over 30 years. Now if that is not scientific proof that lifting weights keeps you younger I don't know what is! Also I believe it is why most people think I look much younger than I really am. Because of this I don't have to worry about osteoporosis. If you wait until you are older and your bones start to deteriorate it's a bit too late, you can't get back what you lost, and you can only start a resistance routine that will prevent further damage.
Cardio is good for you but it is optional. I love cardio, but you can't out exercise too many calories. Of course you burn calories, but not near what all the HRM's say. I learned the hard way, running marathon after marathon (yes even multiple runs during the day), as well as hitting the gym hard, martial arts, staying active all the time, not eating while watching TV, not binging, not mindlessly eating, not pigging out, not having emotional eating issues, yet I gained weight year after year, each decade putting on the pounds. I worked harder and harder, not able to figure out what was wrong. It didn't seem like I ate too much, but for my small size I did and didn't realize it until just a few years ago when I finally started losing weight by eating less.
Everyone is different, but it's very easy to do a lot of cardio and think you can eat more than you really need, especially when you need to lose weight. It is also easy to think that you are burning more fat than you really are. Just do cardio if you enjoy it and because it's good for you.
Too many changes at once can be hard on some people. I've always eaten healthy so it easy for me to simply eat less. Eating at a calorie deficit is hard on people; even a small deficit puts your body in a state of flux with hormones and such. Everyone is different. Some people can handle a deeper calorie deficit than others, this is not right or wrong, it just is. Stress in your life affects your hunger hormones; lack of sleep, fatigue, job stress, family stress, financial stress, etc. Add in emotional eating issues and it gets even more complicated. Most people can only handle so much change/stress at once, they try to do too much and fail. Sometimes it might be a better strategy to eat at maintenance and make some small changes first, it really depends on how much stress you are taking in at the moment.
The good thing is you don't have to worry about the starvation mode myth if you are fat. Only skinny people have to worry about starvation mode. It does not mean you have the capability to eat at a large calorie deficit if you have emotional eating disorders or other issues going on, but at least you don't have to be afraid of it anymore.What is the exact number of calories for you?
We’ve been trying to figure out an exact NUMBER of calories that everyone should be eating, without recognizing that everyone is slightly different. In truth, the calories aren’t the end game. Your body is. So the EXACT amount of Calories that are right for you is the EXACT amount that will allow you to maintain your ideal bodyweight no matter what some calculator or chart says.
In other words, an online calculator might tell you that you need to eat 2,500 calories
per day to maintain your ideal bodyweight. But the only way to know for sure if this is
the right amount for you is to test it out. If you gain weight or can’t lose weight eating
that much, then you know you need to eat less to lose weight no matter how many
calculators and text books say otherwise.
This doesn’t mean your metabolism is broken, it just means the estimate of your needs
was just a bit off.
-John Barban (The Body Centric Calorie Guide from the Venus Index and Adonis Index Manuals)
I am short, petite, small; my RMR is low compared to others. With my doctors approval I had to eat less than or right around 1000 calories to lose weight. We are all different. There is no one size fits all. Even people my height and gender are different and some need more calories than I do. My doctor checked my hormone levels throughout my 60 lb weight loss journey (from obese down to 10% body fat) and everything was fine. I got stronger and stronger at the gym, my running and weight lifting strength improved even while eating on a significant calorie deficit. My DXA scan proved I did not lose lean body mass or go into starvation mode.
Also you do not have to eat the same amount of calories every day. You can think of it as a weekly calorie budget. You can eat low some days and high some days. You can be flexible. You can find what is sustainable for you.
While you don’t have to worry about starvation mode when you have significant fat on your body, as you get closer to your goal you do need to increase your calories slightly as you get leaner as here’s why:
The Theory of Fat Availability:
•There is a set amount of fat that can be released from a fat cell.
•The more fat you have, the more fat can be used as a fuel when dieting.
•The less fat you have, the less fat can be used as a fuel when dieting.
•Towards the end of a transformation, when body fat is extremely low you
may not have enough fat to handle a large caloric deficit anymore.
At the extreme low end, when your body fat cannot ‘keep up’ with the energy deficit
you've imposed on your body, the energy MUST come from SOMEWHERE. This is
when you are at risk of losing lean body mass during dieting (commonly referred to
as ‘starvation mode’). This happens at extremely low levels of body fat, under 6% in
men and 12% in women [Friedl K.E. J Appl Phsiol, 1994].
-Brad Pilon and John Barban (from The Reverse Taper Diet in The Adonis Index and Venus Index manuals)
For me it's all about a calorie budget. I had less of a budget available when I was losing weight, more to spend now that I'm maintaining and all the tools I used for weight loss come into play for the rest of my life maintaining.
When you have accumulated excess fat, you have accumulated a debt. It is hard to pay off the debt (you have less calories to spend). If you are sitting next to someone your same gender and height and they are not overweight and you are, they get to eat more than you (have more calories to spend) because they are debt free. You have less calories to spend because you are paying off your debt.
Wishing you the best! -Bobbie0 -
I must also mentioned that i have been training with a trainer for the last 6 weeks and have lost 3 inches of my waist, went from 34 to 31' my thighs went from 26 to 24.5 and my hips went from 44 to 42. I haven't seen any inches losses on my arms which are at 13 inches with wings (yuck).
Even though there is a slight progress i feel its too slow and that perhaps i am not working hard enough or eating the wrong things. I walk/hike 4x a week with the weekend hike at 5 miles. I train with the trainer 2x to 3x a week and my calories after my exercises are between 900 to 1200.
You need to eat more - you are working out hard and showing progress in inches - and thats amazing - I work out with a trainer who told me a story about a client that had to adjust her belt by 3 loops but quit training bc the scale didnt move - throw out your scale and measure success by measuring and how your clothes feel - also 900-1200 is NOT enough cals, you need to eat more to fuel your body - your body is holding on to what little you are eating - and BE patient!!
She is netting that - not grossing 900 - 1,200.0 -
You're on a roll today californiagirl. I wonder how many more threads you can find for your wall of text.0
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Bobbi, I love your story but is it possible you place these gigantic walls of text on your profile page and then just link to it in the threads? It really is an unfair hogging of the web pages and makes navigation harder for the rest of us.
Like the first commenter said everyone is different. Here is what worked for me, perhaps there will be one small thing that might help you:
We are all human. We have good days and bad days, all of our lives. The tools you find and use to get out of a funk will serve you the rest of your life, and you will always need them. I call it sharpening your sword for battle and you will always need to keep your blade sharp for the rest of your life. We may get to relax at times for a few moments, but life is a bit of work until the end.
There is nothing easy about this journey. Don't give up. Keep your eye on the prize. You do not have to be perfect to do this. You just have to have more good days than not. A bad day is not the end of the world. Tomorrow is a new day. Just pick it right up again. Be kind to yourself at all times and never beat yourself up.
Being on a calorie deficit is hard. You can't do this journey on will power alone. You must set up your environment for success. Have a team around you in your real life, not just online. Get trigger foods out of the house. It will take some sacrifice and it's not easy.
There is no mystery to weight loss, everyone thinks something is wrong, their metabolism is broken, they have low thyroid, they have menopause or whatever issue, they are as unique as a snowflake, whatever. I thought a lot of these things once too but once the doctor helped resolve the health issues for me I learned there is still no magic pill. Most people eat more than they need to and are not at good at estimating calories as they think they are. Most people have a lower BMR than they think they do. The only way to know for sure is to go to a lab and have it tested. It doesn't seem fair to have to eat less and feel a little hunger. It's hard to face the truth of it, very hard. It's not fun. It's drudgery at times. But if you learn to enjoy your smaller amounts of food (necessary to lose weight, since the reason we got fat in the first place was eating too much whether we knew it or not), and rejoice in your victories it can be done.
Your body loses weight in chunks, not linear. I have found that you can do everything right and your weight loss seems to plateau but if you are patient and keep exercising and eating at a deficit (however slight) you will lose it, it will suddenly "whoosh". There are so many variables for the scale; water retention, digestion, hormones, allergies, sodium, carbs, water intake, DOMS, inflammation, the list goes on. People mistakenly think they lose or gain weight when they eat more or less because of these fluctuations.
Losing weight requires tremendous patience. You will not lose it when you want it or where you want it. The body does its thing. Some apparent plateaus can last a month or so. You cannot make it happen faster. You must focus on two things; calories and exercise. Nothing else matters. Scales and metrics don't matter. The day in and day out grind of exercise and calories are all that matters. It is not very exciting until things fall into place. You get your victories and you ride one victory to the next.
The scale is a trend tool. The scale is good but put it away and only check once a week and only use it as a trend tool. It will fluctuate, it does not matter. Take front side and back progress pictures at least once a month. You will see differences that the metrics won't tell you and it's that little bit of NSV that will keep you going until the next victory.
As far as calories…
To say eat more is wrong.
To say eat less is wrong.
If you plug in all your info (typically age, gender, height and weight) into one of those calculators what you get is the average metabolic rate of a group of people who share your age, sex, height and weight. What you DON’T get is YOUR EXACT calorie needs. It's a place to start.
To find the exact calories needed for YOU to be in a healthy sustainable calorie deficit is the right answer. Wait, if you need to adjust by 100 do it, wait, adjust, wait, adjust, wait. The tortoise wins this race.
You want to eat as healthy as you can because it makes you feel better and perform better, and makes you healthier. There are a bunch of tricks and clean eating; reducing sugar (especially HFCS), fiber, white flour vs whole grain, low carb, low fat, on and on. All that matters is calories for weight loss. If you need to eat a certain way for health reasons or to feel better do it, but extensive good food and bad food lists will drive you insane at some point, it’s a constantly moving target. Just eat what you like, mostly healthy, mostly balanced, within a calorie budget. We all know what healthy is by now, just do it.
Also people play mental accounting games with calories just like with finances. Make steps to make sure you are making accurate measurements. Packaged foods can have MORE than they say but not less (they get in trouble if less so they would rather error with MORE).
If you typically intake sodium at a certain rate your body adjusts, but if you make a sudden change then you will see a spike.
Exercise is for making your lean body mass pretty (especially lifting weights) for when the fat is gone. Losing fat with no muscle is ugly and cardio alone will not make you pretty. You cannot out exercise too many calories.
Everyone needs resistance training to improve their health and bone density and this will especially improve your quality of life when you get older. But you will not gain all that much lean body mass as fast as everyone thinks. Guys of course will gain more. A DXA scan will prove the point. There are lots of stories about changing size but no one REALLY knows unless they do a DXA scan. Here's more about that --> http://bradpilon.com/weight-loss/intermittent-fasting-and-bulking/ this is true whether you IF or not. My DXA scans proved that I really didn't gain that much lean body mass yet I look very muscular for a female. I have very high bone density from over 30 years of lifting yet my lean body mass is still only 104 lbs and my RMR is still only 1380.
I recently had my DXA scan done and at 51.5 years of age I have the bone density of a super athletic 30 year old. That is a direct result of lifting for over 30 years. Now if that is not scientific proof that lifting weights keeps you younger I don't know what is! Also I believe it is why most people think I look much younger than I really am. Because of this I don't have to worry about osteoporosis. If you wait until you are older and your bones start to deteriorate it's a bit too late, you can't get back what you lost, and you can only start a resistance routine that will prevent further damage.
Cardio is good for you but it is optional. I love cardio, but you can't out exercise too many calories. Of course you burn calories, but not near what all the HRM's say. I learned the hard way, running marathon after marathon (yes even multiple runs during the day), as well as hitting the gym hard, martial arts, staying active all the time, not eating while watching TV, not binging, not mindlessly eating, not pigging out, not having emotional eating issues, yet I gained weight year after year, each decade putting on the pounds. I worked harder and harder, not able to figure out what was wrong. It didn't seem like I ate too much, but for my small size I did and didn't realize it until just a few years ago when I finally started losing weight by eating less.
Everyone is different, but it's very easy to do a lot of cardio and think you can eat more than you really need, especially when you need to lose weight. It is also easy to think that you are burning more fat than you really are. Just do cardio if you enjoy it and because it's good for you.
Too many changes at once can be hard on some people. I've always eaten healthy so it easy for me to simply eat less. Eating at a calorie deficit is hard on people; even a small deficit puts your body in a state of flux with hormones and such. Everyone is different. Some people can handle a deeper calorie deficit than others, this is not right or wrong, it just is. Stress in your life affects your hunger hormones; lack of sleep, fatigue, job stress, family stress, financial stress, etc. Add in emotional eating issues and it gets even more complicated. Most people can only handle so much change/stress at once, they try to do too much and fail. Sometimes it might be a better strategy to eat at maintenance and make some small changes first, it really depends on how much stress you are taking in at the moment.
The good thing is you don't have to worry about the starvation mode myth if you are fat. Only skinny people have to worry about starvation mode. It does not mean you have the capability to eat at a large calorie deficit if you have emotional eating disorders or other issues going on, but at least you don't have to be afraid of it anymore.What is the exact number of calories for you?
We’ve been trying to figure out an exact NUMBER of calories that everyone should be eating, without recognizing that everyone is slightly different. In truth, the calories aren’t the end game. Your body is. So the EXACT amount of Calories that are right for you is the EXACT amount that will allow you to maintain your ideal bodyweight no matter what some calculator or chart says.
In other words, an online calculator might tell you that you need to eat 2,500 calories
per day to maintain your ideal bodyweight. But the only way to know for sure if this is
the right amount for you is to test it out. If you gain weight or can’t lose weight eating
that much, then you know you need to eat less to lose weight no matter how many
calculators and text books say otherwise.
This doesn’t mean your metabolism is broken, it just means the estimate of your needs
was just a bit off.
-John Barban (The Body Centric Calorie Guide from the Venus Index and Adonis Index Manuals)
I am short, petite, small; my RMR is low compared to others. With my doctors approval I had to eat less than or right around 1000 calories to lose weight. We are all different. There is no one size fits all. Even people my height and gender are different and some need more calories than I do. My doctor checked my hormone levels throughout my 60 lb weight loss journey (from obese down to 10% body fat) and everything was fine. I got stronger and stronger at the gym, my running and weight lifting strength improved even while eating on a significant calorie deficit. My DXA scan proved I did not lose lean body mass or go into starvation mode.
Also you do not have to eat the same amount of calories every day. You can think of it as a weekly calorie budget. You can eat low some days and high some days. You can be flexible. You can find what is sustainable for you.
While you don’t have to worry about starvation mode when you have significant fat on your body, as you get closer to your goal you do need to increase your calories slightly as you get leaner as here’s why:
The Theory of Fat Availability:
•There is a set amount of fat that can be released from a fat cell.
•The more fat you have, the more fat can be used as a fuel when dieting.
•The less fat you have, the less fat can be used as a fuel when dieting.
•Towards the end of a transformation, when body fat is extremely low you
may not have enough fat to handle a large caloric deficit anymore.
At the extreme low end, when your body fat cannot ‘keep up’ with the energy deficit
you've imposed on your body, the energy MUST come from SOMEWHERE. This is
when you are at risk of losing lean body mass during dieting (commonly referred to
as ‘starvation mode’). This happens at extremely low levels of body fat, under 6% in
men and 12% in women [Friedl K.E. J Appl Phsiol, 1994].
-Brad Pilon and John Barban (from The Reverse Taper Diet in The Adonis Index and Venus Index manuals)
For me it's all about a calorie budget. I had less of a budget available when I was losing weight, more to spend now that I'm maintaining and all the tools I used for weight loss come into play for the rest of my life maintaining.
When you have accumulated excess fat, you have accumulated a debt. It is hard to pay off the debt (you have less calories to spend). If you are sitting next to someone your same gender and height and they are not overweight and you are, they get to eat more than you (have more calories to spend) because they are debt free. You have less calories to spend because you are paying off your debt.
Wishing you the best! -Bobbie
Most of this wasn't even relevant to the OP.0 -
Your body has gotten used to the foods you are eating. Change your foods daily and remember to up your protein but stay close to the same calories you need to lose for the week. Also be careful to eat enough fat,enough calories and water. You might even try fasting and drinking water for a day. It is good for your digestion system to rest a day and it may help you break the platue you are at. I ate very badly on Thanksgiving.The next day I drank a lot of water and ate 1 turkey sandwich. I dropped weight! I personally try to enclude all the food groups and it works better for me. I feel better too. Too much meat makes me feel bad. My doctor pointed out to me that we were not meant to eat meat every day. That before refridgeration we couldn't even accomplish that. People used to eat more fruit and vegetables and eat fresh meat when they were able to hunt. Remember everyone is a bit different.0
-
You're on a roll today californiagirl. I wonder how many more threads you can find for your wall of text.
I have seen this copy paste so many times I think i have it memorized...maybe clip out what actually answers the question.0 -
heh \m/Bobbi, I love your story but is it possible you place these gigantic walls of text on your profile page and then just link to it in the threads? It really is an unfair hogging of the web pages and makes navigation harder for the rest of us.
Like the first commenter said everyone is different. Here is what worked for me, perhaps there will be one small thing that might help you:
We are all human. We have good days and bad days, all of our lives. The tools you find and use to get out of a funk will serve you the rest of your life, and you will always need them. I call it sharpening your sword for battle and you will always need to keep your blade sharp for the rest of your life. We may get to relax at times for a few moments, but life is a bit of work until the end.
There is nothing easy about this journey. Don't give up. Keep your eye on the prize. You do not have to be perfect to do this. You just have to have more good days than not. A bad day is not the end of the world. Tomorrow is a new day. Just pick it right up again. Be kind to yourself at all times and never beat yourself up.
Being on a calorie deficit is hard. You can't do this journey on will power alone. You must set up your environment for success. Have a team around you in your real life, not just online. Get trigger foods out of the house. It will take some sacrifice and it's not easy.
There is no mystery to weight loss, everyone thinks something is wrong, their metabolism is broken, they have low thyroid, they have menopause or whatever issue, they are as unique as a snowflake, whatever. I thought a lot of these things once too but once the doctor helped resolve the health issues for me I learned there is still no magic pill. Most people eat more than they need to and are not at good at estimating calories as they think they are. Most people have a lower BMR than they think they do. The only way to know for sure is to go to a lab and have it tested. It doesn't seem fair to have to eat less and feel a little hunger. It's hard to face the truth of it, very hard. It's not fun. It's drudgery at times. But if you learn to enjoy your smaller amounts of food (necessary to lose weight, since the reason we got fat in the first place was eating too much whether we knew it or not), and rejoice in your victories it can be done.
Your body loses weight in chunks, not linear. I have found that you can do everything right and your weight loss seems to plateau but if you are patient and keep exercising and eating at a deficit (however slight) you will lose it, it will suddenly "whoosh". There are so many variables for the scale; water retention, digestion, hormones, allergies, sodium, carbs, water intake, DOMS, inflammation, the list goes on. People mistakenly think they lose or gain weight when they eat more or less because of these fluctuations.
Losing weight requires tremendous patience. You will not lose it when you want it or where you want it. The body does its thing. Some apparent plateaus can last a month or so. You cannot make it happen faster. You must focus on two things; calories and exercise. Nothing else matters. Scales and metrics don't matter. The day in and day out grind of exercise and calories are all that matters. It is not very exciting until things fall into place. You get your victories and you ride one victory to the next.
The scale is a trend tool. The scale is good but put it away and only check once a week and only use it as a trend tool. It will fluctuate, it does not matter. Take front side and back progress pictures at least once a month. You will see differences that the metrics won't tell you and it's that little bit of NSV that will keep you going until the next victory.
As far as calories…
To say eat more is wrong.
To say eat less is wrong.
If you plug in all your info (typically age, gender, height and weight) into one of those calculators what you get is the average metabolic rate of a group of people who share your age, sex, height and weight. What you DON’T get is YOUR EXACT calorie needs. It's a place to start.
To find the exact calories needed for YOU to be in a healthy sustainable calorie deficit is the right answer. Wait, if you need to adjust by 100 do it, wait, adjust, wait, adjust, wait. The tortoise wins this race.
You want to eat as healthy as you can because it makes you feel better and perform better, and makes you healthier. There are a bunch of tricks and clean eating; reducing sugar (especially HFCS), fiber, white flour vs whole grain, low carb, low fat, on and on. All that matters is calories for weight loss. If you need to eat a certain way for health reasons or to feel better do it, but extensive good food and bad food lists will drive you insane at some point, it’s a constantly moving target. Just eat what you like, mostly healthy, mostly balanced, within a calorie budget. We all know what healthy is by now, just do it.
Also people play mental accounting games with calories just like with finances. Make steps to make sure you are making accurate measurements. Packaged foods can have MORE than they say but not less (they get in trouble if less so they would rather error with MORE).
If you typically intake sodium at a certain rate your body adjusts, but if you make a sudden change then you will see a spike.
Exercise is for making your lean body mass pretty (especially lifting weights) for when the fat is gone. Losing fat with no muscle is ugly and cardio alone will not make you pretty. You cannot out exercise too many calories.
Everyone needs resistance training to improve their health and bone density and this will especially improve your quality of life when you get older. But you will not gain all that much lean body mass as fast as everyone thinks. Guys of course will gain more. A DXA scan will prove the point. There are lots of stories about changing size but no one REALLY knows unless they do a DXA scan. Here's more about that --> http://bradpilon.com/weight-loss/intermittent-fasting-and-bulking/ this is true whether you IF or not. My DXA scans proved that I really didn't gain that much lean body mass yet I look very muscular for a female. I have very high bone density from over 30 years of lifting yet my lean body mass is still only 104 lbs and my RMR is still only 1380.
I recently had my DXA scan done and at 51.5 years of age I have the bone density of a super athletic 30 year old. That is a direct result of lifting for over 30 years. Now if that is not scientific proof that lifting weights keeps you younger I don't know what is! Also I believe it is why most people think I look much younger than I really am. Because of this I don't have to worry about osteoporosis. If you wait until you are older and your bones start to deteriorate it's a bit too late, you can't get back what you lost, and you can only start a resistance routine that will prevent further damage.
Cardio is good for you but it is optional. I love cardio, but you can't out exercise too many calories. Of course you burn calories, but not near what all the HRM's say. I learned the hard way, running marathon after marathon (yes even multiple runs during the day), as well as hitting the gym hard, martial arts, staying active all the time, not eating while watching TV, not binging, not mindlessly eating, not pigging out, not having emotional eating issues, yet I gained weight year after year, each decade putting on the pounds. I worked harder and harder, not able to figure out what was wrong. It didn't seem like I ate too much, but for my small size I did and didn't realize it until just a few years ago when I finally started losing weight by eating less.
Everyone is different, but it's very easy to do a lot of cardio and think you can eat more than you really need, especially when you need to lose weight. It is also easy to think that you are burning more fat than you really are. Just do cardio if you enjoy it and because it's good for you.
Too many changes at once can be hard on some people. I've always eaten healthy so it easy for me to simply eat less. Eating at a calorie deficit is hard on people; even a small deficit puts your body in a state of flux with hormones and such. Everyone is different. Some people can handle a deeper calorie deficit than others, this is not right or wrong, it just is. Stress in your life affects your hunger hormones; lack of sleep, fatigue, job stress, family stress, financial stress, etc. Add in emotional eating issues and it gets even more complicated. Most people can only handle so much change/stress at once, they try to do too much and fail. Sometimes it might be a better strategy to eat at maintenance and make some small changes first, it really depends on how much stress you are taking in at the moment.
The good thing is you don't have to worry about the starvation mode myth if you are fat. Only skinny people have to worry about starvation mode. It does not mean you have the capability to eat at a large calorie deficit if you have emotional eating disorders or other issues going on, but at least you don't have to be afraid of it anymore.What is the exact number of calories for you?
We’ve been trying to figure out an exact NUMBER of calories that everyone should be eating, without recognizing that everyone is slightly different. In truth, the calories aren’t the end game. Your body is. So the EXACT amount of Calories that are right for you is the EXACT amount that will allow you to maintain your ideal bodyweight no matter what some calculator or chart says.
In other words, an online calculator might tell you that you need to eat 2,500 calories
per day to maintain your ideal bodyweight. But the only way to know for sure if this is
the right amount for you is to test it out. If you gain weight or can’t lose weight eating
that much, then you know you need to eat less to lose weight no matter how many
calculators and text books say otherwise.
This doesn’t mean your metabolism is broken, it just means the estimate of your needs
was just a bit off.
-John Barban (The Body Centric Calorie Guide from the Venus Index and Adonis Index Manuals)
I am short, petite, small; my RMR is low compared to others. With my doctors approval I had to eat less than or right around 1000 calories to lose weight. We are all different. There is no one size fits all. Even people my height and gender are different and some need more calories than I do. My doctor checked my hormone levels throughout my 60 lb weight loss journey (from obese down to 10% body fat) and everything was fine. I got stronger and stronger at the gym, my running and weight lifting strength improved even while eating on a significant calorie deficit. My DXA scan proved I did not lose lean body mass or go into starvation mode.
Also you do not have to eat the same amount of calories every day. You can think of it as a weekly calorie budget. You can eat low some days and high some days. You can be flexible. You can find what is sustainable for you.
While you don’t have to worry about starvation mode when you have significant fat on your body, as you get closer to your goal you do need to increase your calories slightly as you get leaner as here’s why:
The Theory of Fat Availability:
•There is a set amount of fat that can be released from a fat cell.
•The more fat you have, the more fat can be used as a fuel when dieting.
•The less fat you have, the less fat can be used as a fuel when dieting.
•Towards the end of a transformation, when body fat is extremely low you
may not have enough fat to handle a large caloric deficit anymore.
At the extreme low end, when your body fat cannot ‘keep up’ with the energy deficit
you've imposed on your body, the energy MUST come from SOMEWHERE. This is
when you are at risk of losing lean body mass during dieting (commonly referred to
as ‘starvation mode’). This happens at extremely low levels of body fat, under 6% in
men and 12% in women [Friedl K.E. J Appl Phsiol, 1994].
-Brad Pilon and John Barban (from The Reverse Taper Diet in The Adonis Index and Venus Index manuals)
For me it's all about a calorie budget. I had less of a budget available when I was losing weight, more to spend now that I'm maintaining and all the tools I used for weight loss come into play for the rest of my life maintaining.
When you have accumulated excess fat, you have accumulated a debt. It is hard to pay off the debt (you have less calories to spend). If you are sitting next to someone your same gender and height and they are not overweight and you are, they get to eat more than you (have more calories to spend) because they are debt free. You have less calories to spend because you are paying off your debt.
Wishing you the best! -Bobbie
Most of this wasn't even relevant to the OP.0 -
Bobbi, I love your story but is it possible you place these gigantic walls of text on your profile page and then just link to it in the threads? It really is an unfair hogging of the web pages and makes navigation harder for the rest of us.
Like the first commenter said everyone is different. Here is what worked for me, perhaps there will be one small thing that might help you:
We are all human. We have good days and bad days, all of our lives. The tools you find and use to get out of a funk will serve you the rest of your life, and you will always need them. I call it sharpening your sword for battle and you will always need to keep your blade sharp for the rest of your life. We may get to relax at times for a few moments, but life is a bit of work until the end.
There is nothing easy about this journey. Don't give up. Keep your eye on the prize. You do not have to be perfect to do this. You just have to have more good days than not. A bad day is not the end of the world. Tomorrow is a new day. Just pick it right up again. Be kind to yourself at all times and never beat yourself up.
Being on a calorie deficit is hard. You can't do this journey on will power alone. You must set up your environment for success. Have a team around you in your real life, not just online. Get trigger foods out of the house. It will take some sacrifice and it's not easy.
There is no mystery to weight loss, everyone thinks something is wrong, their metabolism is broken, they have low thyroid, they have menopause or whatever issue, they are as unique as a snowflake, whatever. I thought a lot of these things once too but once the doctor helped resolve the health issues for me I learned there is still no magic pill. Most people eat more than they need to and are not at good at estimating calories as they think they are. Most people have a lower BMR than they think they do. The only way to know for sure is to go to a lab and have it tested. It doesn't seem fair to have to eat less and feel a little hunger. It's hard to face the truth of it, very hard. It's not fun. It's drudgery at times. But if you learn to enjoy your smaller amounts of food (necessary to lose weight, since the reason we got fat in the first place was eating too much whether we knew it or not), and rejoice in your victories it can be done.
Your body loses weight in chunks, not linear. I have found that you can do everything right and your weight loss seems to plateau but if you are patient and keep exercising and eating at a deficit (however slight) you will lose it, it will suddenly "whoosh". There are so many variables for the scale; water retention, digestion, hormones, allergies, sodium, carbs, water intake, DOMS, inflammation, the list goes on. People mistakenly think they lose or gain weight when they eat more or less because of these fluctuations.
Losing weight requires tremendous patience. You will not lose it when you want it or where you want it. The body does its thing. Some apparent plateaus can last a month or so. You cannot make it happen faster. You must focus on two things; calories and exercise. Nothing else matters. Scales and metrics don't matter. The day in and day out grind of exercise and calories are all that matters. It is not very exciting until things fall into place. You get your victories and you ride one victory to the next.
The scale is a trend tool. The scale is good but put it away and only check once a week and only use it as a trend tool. It will fluctuate, it does not matter. Take front side and back progress pictures at least once a month. You will see differences that the metrics won't tell you and it's that little bit of NSV that will keep you going until the next victory.
As far as calories…
To say eat more is wrong.
To say eat less is wrong.
If you plug in all your info (typically age, gender, height and weight) into one of those calculators what you get is the average metabolic rate of a group of people who share your age, sex, height and weight. What you DON’T get is YOUR EXACT calorie needs. It's a place to start.
To find the exact calories needed for YOU to be in a healthy sustainable calorie deficit is the right answer. Wait, if you need to adjust by 100 do it, wait, adjust, wait, adjust, wait. The tortoise wins this race.
You want to eat as healthy as you can because it makes you feel better and perform better, and makes you healthier. There are a bunch of tricks and clean eating; reducing sugar (especially HFCS), fiber, white flour vs whole grain, low carb, low fat, on and on. All that matters is calories for weight loss. If you need to eat a certain way for health reasons or to feel better do it, but extensive good food and bad food lists will drive you insane at some point, it’s a constantly moving target. Just eat what you like, mostly healthy, mostly balanced, within a calorie budget. We all know what healthy is by now, just do it.
Also people play mental accounting games with calories just like with finances. Make steps to make sure you are making accurate measurements. Packaged foods can have MORE than they say but not less (they get in trouble if less so they would rather error with MORE).
If you typically intake sodium at a certain rate your body adjusts, but if you make a sudden change then you will see a spike.
Exercise is for making your lean body mass pretty (especially lifting weights) for when the fat is gone. Losing fat with no muscle is ugly and cardio alone will not make you pretty. You cannot out exercise too many calories.
Everyone needs resistance training to improve their health and bone density and this will especially improve your quality of life when you get older. But you will not gain all that much lean body mass as fast as everyone thinks. Guys of course will gain more. A DXA scan will prove the point. There are lots of stories about changing size but no one REALLY knows unless they do a DXA scan. Here's more about that --> http://bradpilon.com/weight-loss/intermittent-fasting-and-bulking/ this is true whether you IF or not. My DXA scans proved that I really didn't gain that much lean body mass yet I look very muscular for a female. I have very high bone density from over 30 years of lifting yet my lean body mass is still only 104 lbs and my RMR is still only 1380.
I recently had my DXA scan done and at 51.5 years of age I have the bone density of a super athletic 30 year old. That is a direct result of lifting for over 30 years. Now if that is not scientific proof that lifting weights keeps you younger I don't know what is! Also I believe it is why most people think I look much younger than I really am. Because of this I don't have to worry about osteoporosis. If you wait until you are older and your bones start to deteriorate it's a bit too late, you can't get back what you lost, and you can only start a resistance routine that will prevent further damage.
Cardio is good for you but it is optional. I love cardio, but you can't out exercise too many calories. Of course you burn calories, but not near what all the HRM's say. I learned the hard way, running marathon after marathon (yes even multiple runs during the day), as well as hitting the gym hard, martial arts, staying active all the time, not eating while watching TV, not binging, not mindlessly eating, not pigging out, not having emotional eating issues, yet I gained weight year after year, each decade putting on the pounds. I worked harder and harder, not able to figure out what was wrong. It didn't seem like I ate too much, but for my small size I did and didn't realize it until just a few years ago when I finally started losing weight by eating less.
Everyone is different, but it's very easy to do a lot of cardio and think you can eat more than you really need, especially when you need to lose weight. It is also easy to think that you are burning more fat than you really are. Just do cardio if you enjoy it and because it's good for you.
Too many changes at once can be hard on some people. I've always eaten healthy so it easy for me to simply eat less. Eating at a calorie deficit is hard on people; even a small deficit puts your body in a state of flux with hormones and such. Everyone is different. Some people can handle a deeper calorie deficit than others, this is not right or wrong, it just is. Stress in your life affects your hunger hormones; lack of sleep, fatigue, job stress, family stress, financial stress, etc. Add in emotional eating issues and it gets even more complicated. Most people can only handle so much change/stress at once, they try to do too much and fail. Sometimes it might be a better strategy to eat at maintenance and make some small changes first, it really depends on how much stress you are taking in at the moment.
The good thing is you don't have to worry about the starvation mode myth if you are fat. Only skinny people have to worry about starvation mode. It does not mean you have the capability to eat at a large calorie deficit if you have emotional eating disorders or other issues going on, but at least you don't have to be afraid of it anymore.What is the exact number of calories for you?
We’ve been trying to figure out an exact NUMBER of calories that everyone should be eating, without recognizing that everyone is slightly different. In truth, the calories aren’t the end game. Your body is. So the EXACT amount of Calories that are right for you is the EXACT amount that will allow you to maintain your ideal bodyweight no matter what some calculator or chart says.
In other words, an online calculator might tell you that you need to eat 2,500 calories
per day to maintain your ideal bodyweight. But the only way to know for sure if this is
the right amount for you is to test it out. If you gain weight or can’t lose weight eating
that much, then you know you need to eat less to lose weight no matter how many
calculators and text books say otherwise.
This doesn’t mean your metabolism is broken, it just means the estimate of your needs
was just a bit off.
-John Barban (The Body Centric Calorie Guide from the Venus Index and Adonis Index Manuals)
I am short, petite, small; my RMR is low compared to others. With my doctors approval I had to eat less than or right around 1000 calories to lose weight. We are all different. There is no one size fits all. Even people my height and gender are different and some need more calories than I do. My doctor checked my hormone levels throughout my 60 lb weight loss journey (from obese down to 10% body fat) and everything was fine. I got stronger and stronger at the gym, my running and weight lifting strength improved even while eating on a significant calorie deficit. My DXA scan proved I did not lose lean body mass or go into starvation mode.
Also you do not have to eat the same amount of calories every day. You can think of it as a weekly calorie budget. You can eat low some days and high some days. You can be flexible. You can find what is sustainable for you.
While you don’t have to worry about starvation mode when you have significant fat on your body, as you get closer to your goal you do need to increase your calories slightly as you get leaner as here’s why:
The Theory of Fat Availability:
•There is a set amount of fat that can be released from a fat cell.
•The more fat you have, the more fat can be used as a fuel when dieting.
•The less fat you have, the less fat can be used as a fuel when dieting.
•Towards the end of a transformation, when body fat is extremely low you
may not have enough fat to handle a large caloric deficit anymore.
At the extreme low end, when your body fat cannot ‘keep up’ with the energy deficit
you've imposed on your body, the energy MUST come from SOMEWHERE. This is
when you are at risk of losing lean body mass during dieting (commonly referred to
as ‘starvation mode’). This happens at extremely low levels of body fat, under 6% in
men and 12% in women [Friedl K.E. J Appl Phsiol, 1994].
-Brad Pilon and John Barban (from The Reverse Taper Diet in The Adonis Index and Venus Index manuals)
For me it's all about a calorie budget. I had less of a budget available when I was losing weight, more to spend now that I'm maintaining and all the tools I used for weight loss come into play for the rest of my life maintaining.
When you have accumulated excess fat, you have accumulated a debt. It is hard to pay off the debt (you have less calories to spend). If you are sitting next to someone your same gender and height and they are not overweight and you are, they get to eat more than you (have more calories to spend) because they are debt free. You have less calories to spend because you are paying off your debt.
Wishing you the best! -Bobbie
Most of this wasn't even relevant to the OP.
or was it it relevant?0 -
Bobbi, I love your story but is it possible you place these gigantic walls of text on your profile page and then just link to it in the threads? It really is an unfair hogging of the web pages and makes navigation harder for the rest of us.
Like the first commenter said everyone is different. Here is what worked for me, perhaps there will be one small thing that might help you:
We are all human. We have good days and bad days, all of our lives. The tools you find and use to get out of a funk will serve you the rest of your life, and you will always need them. I call it sharpening your sword for battle and you will always need to keep your blade sharp for the rest of your life. We may get to relax at times for a few moments, but life is a bit of work until the end.
There is nothing easy about this journey. Don't give up. Keep your eye on the prize. You do not have to be perfect to do this. You just have to have more good days than not. A bad day is not the end of the world. Tomorrow is a new day. Just pick it right up again. Be kind to yourself at all times and never beat yourself up.
Being on a calorie deficit is hard. You can't do this journey on will power alone. You must set up your environment for success. Have a team around you in your real life, not just online. Get trigger foods out of the house. It will take some sacrifice and it's not easy.
There is no mystery to weight loss, everyone thinks something is wrong, their metabolism is broken, they have low thyroid, they have menopause or whatever issue, they are as unique as a snowflake, whatever. I thought a lot of these things once too but once the doctor helped resolve the health issues for me I learned there is still no magic pill. Most people eat more than they need to and are not at good at estimating calories as they think they are. Most people have a lower BMR than they think they do. The only way to know for sure is to go to a lab and have it tested. It doesn't seem fair to have to eat less and feel a little hunger. It's hard to face the truth of it, very hard. It's not fun. It's drudgery at times. But if you learn to enjoy your smaller amounts of food (necessary to lose weight, since the reason we got fat in the first place was eating too much whether we knew it or not), and rejoice in your victories it can be done.
Your body loses weight in chunks, not linear. I have found that you can do everything right and your weight loss seems to plateau but if you are patient and keep exercising and eating at a deficit (however slight) you will lose it, it will suddenly "whoosh". There are so many variables for the scale; water retention, digestion, hormones, allergies, sodium, carbs, water intake, DOMS, inflammation, the list goes on. People mistakenly think they lose or gain weight when they eat more or less because of these fluctuations.
Losing weight requires tremendous patience. You will not lose it when you want it or where you want it. The body does its thing. Some apparent plateaus can last a month or so. You cannot make it happen faster. You must focus on two things; calories and exercise. Nothing else matters. Scales and metrics don't matter. The day in and day out grind of exercise and calories are all that matters. It is not very exciting until things fall into place. You get your victories and you ride one victory to the next.
The scale is a trend tool. The scale is good but put it away and only check once a week and only use it as a trend tool. It will fluctuate, it does not matter. Take front side and back progress pictures at least once a month. You will see differences that the metrics won't tell you and it's that little bit of NSV that will keep you going until the next victory.
As far as calories…
To say eat more is wrong.
To say eat less is wrong.
If you plug in all your info (typically age, gender, height and weight) into one of those calculators what you get is the average metabolic rate of a group of people who share your age, sex, height and weight. What you DON’T get is YOUR EXACT calorie needs. It's a place to start.
To find the exact calories needed for YOU to be in a healthy sustainable calorie deficit is the right answer. Wait, if you need to adjust by 100 do it, wait, adjust, wait, adjust, wait. The tortoise wins this race.
You want to eat as healthy as you can because it makes you feel better and perform better, and makes you healthier. There are a bunch of tricks and clean eating; reducing sugar (especially HFCS), fiber, white flour vs whole grain, low carb, low fat, on and on. All that matters is calories for weight loss. If you need to eat a certain way for health reasons or to feel better do it, but extensive good food and bad food lists will drive you insane at some point, it’s a constantly moving target. Just eat what you like, mostly healthy, mostly balanced, within a calorie budget. We all know what healthy is by now, just do it.
Also people play mental accounting games with calories just like with finances. Make steps to make sure you are making accurate measurements. Packaged foods can have MORE than they say but not less (they get in trouble if less so they would rather error with MORE).
If you typically intake sodium at a certain rate your body adjusts, but if you make a sudden change then you will see a spike.
Exercise is for making your lean body mass pretty (especially lifting weights) for when the fat is gone. Losing fat with no muscle is ugly and cardio alone will not make you pretty. You cannot out exercise too many calories.
Everyone needs resistance training to improve their health and bone density and this will especially improve your quality of life when you get older. But you will not gain all that much lean body mass as fast as everyone thinks. Guys of course will gain more. A DXA scan will prove the point. There are lots of stories about changing size but no one REALLY knows unless they do a DXA scan. Here's more about that --> http://bradpilon.com/weight-loss/intermittent-fasting-and-bulking/ this is true whether you IF or not. My DXA scans proved that I really didn't gain that much lean body mass yet I look very muscular for a female. I have very high bone density from over 30 years of lifting yet my lean body mass is still only 104 lbs and my RMR is still only 1380.
I recently had my DXA scan done and at 51.5 years of age I have the bone density of a super athletic 30 year old. That is a direct result of lifting for over 30 years. Now if that is not scientific proof that lifting weights keeps you younger I don't know what is! Also I believe it is why most people think I look much younger than I really am. Because of this I don't have to worry about osteoporosis. If you wait until you are older and your bones start to deteriorate it's a bit too late, you can't get back what you lost, and you can only start a resistance routine that will prevent further damage.
Cardio is good for you but it is optional. I love cardio, but you can't out exercise too many calories. Of course you burn calories, but not near what all the HRM's say. I learned the hard way, running marathon after marathon (yes even multiple runs during the day), as well as hitting the gym hard, martial arts, staying active all the time, not eating while watching TV, not binging, not mindlessly eating, not pigging out, not having emotional eating issues, yet I gained weight year after year, each decade putting on the pounds. I worked harder and harder, not able to figure out what was wrong. It didn't seem like I ate too much, but for my small size I did and didn't realize it until just a few years ago when I finally started losing weight by eating less.
Everyone is different, but it's very easy to do a lot of cardio and think you can eat more than you really need, especially when you need to lose weight. It is also easy to think that you are burning more fat than you really are. Just do cardio if you enjoy it and because it's good for you.
Too many changes at once can be hard on some people. I've always eaten healthy so it easy for me to simply eat less. Eating at a calorie deficit is hard on people; even a small deficit puts your body in a state of flux with hormones and such. Everyone is different. Some people can handle a deeper calorie deficit than others, this is not right or wrong, it just is. Stress in your life affects your hunger hormones; lack of sleep, fatigue, job stress, family stress, financial stress, etc. Add in emotional eating issues and it gets even more complicated. Most people can only handle so much change/stress at once, they try to do too much and fail. Sometimes it might be a better strategy to eat at maintenance and make some small changes first, it really depends on how much stress you are taking in at the moment.
The good thing is you don't have to worry about the starvation mode myth if you are fat. Only skinny people have to worry about starvation mode. It does not mean you have the capability to eat at a large calorie deficit if you have emotional eating disorders or other issues going on, but at least you don't have to be afraid of it anymore.What is the exact number of calories for you?
We’ve been trying to figure out an exact NUMBER of calories that everyone should be eating, without recognizing that everyone is slightly different. In truth, the calories aren’t the end game. Your body is. So the EXACT amount of Calories that are right for you is the EXACT amount that will allow you to maintain your ideal bodyweight no matter what some calculator or chart says.
In other words, an online calculator might tell you that you need to eat 2,500 calories
per day to maintain your ideal bodyweight. But the only way to know for sure if this is
the right amount for you is to test it out. If you gain weight or can’t lose weight eating
that much, then you know you need to eat less to lose weight no matter how many
calculators and text books say otherwise.
This doesn’t mean your metabolism is broken, it just means the estimate of your needs
was just a bit off.
-John Barban (The Body Centric Calorie Guide from the Venus Index and Adonis Index Manuals)
I am short, petite, small; my RMR is low compared to others. With my doctors approval I had to eat less than or right around 1000 calories to lose weight. We are all different. There is no one size fits all. Even people my height and gender are different and some need more calories than I do. My doctor checked my hormone levels throughout my 60 lb weight loss journey (from obese down to 10% body fat) and everything was fine. I got stronger and stronger at the gym, my running and weight lifting strength improved even while eating on a significant calorie deficit. My DXA scan proved I did not lose lean body mass or go into starvation mode.
Also you do not have to eat the same amount of calories every day. You can think of it as a weekly calorie budget. You can eat low some days and high some days. You can be flexible. You can find what is sustainable for you.
While you don’t have to worry about starvation mode when you have significant fat on your body, as you get closer to your goal you do need to increase your calories slightly as you get leaner as here’s why:
The Theory of Fat Availability:
•There is a set amount of fat that can be released from a fat cell.
•The more fat you have, the more fat can be used as a fuel when dieting.
•The less fat you have, the less fat can be used as a fuel when dieting.
•Towards the end of a transformation, when body fat is extremely low you
may not have enough fat to handle a large caloric deficit anymore.
At the extreme low end, when your body fat cannot ‘keep up’ with the energy deficit
you've imposed on your body, the energy MUST come from SOMEWHERE. This is
when you are at risk of losing lean body mass during dieting (commonly referred to
as ‘starvation mode’). This happens at extremely low levels of body fat, under 6% in
men and 12% in women [Friedl K.E. J Appl Phsiol, 1994].
-Brad Pilon and John Barban (from The Reverse Taper Diet in The Adonis Index and Venus Index manuals)
For me it's all about a calorie budget. I had less of a budget available when I was losing weight, more to spend now that I'm maintaining and all the tools I used for weight loss come into play for the rest of my life maintaining.
When you have accumulated excess fat, you have accumulated a debt. It is hard to pay off the debt (you have less calories to spend). If you are sitting next to someone your same gender and height and they are not overweight and you are, they get to eat more than you (have more calories to spend) because they are debt free. You have less calories to spend because you are paying off your debt.
Wishing you the best! -Bobbie
Most of this wasn't even relevant to the OP.
or was it it relevant?
Well, no it probably wasn't.0 -
Bobbi, I love your story but is it possible you place these gigantic walls of text on your profile page and then just link to it in the threads? It really is an unfair hogging of the web pages and makes navigation harder for the rest of us.
Like the first commenter said everyone is different. Here is what worked for me, perhaps there will be one small thing that might help you:
We are all human. We have good days and bad days, all of our lives. The tools you find and use to get out of a funk will serve you the rest of your life, and you will always need them. I call it sharpening your sword for battle and you will always need to keep your blade sharp for the rest of your life. We may get to relax at times for a few moments, but life is a bit of work until the end.
There is nothing easy about this journey. Don't give up. Keep your eye on the prize. You do not have to be perfect to do this. You just have to have more good days than not. A bad day is not the end of the world. Tomorrow is a new day. Just pick it right up again. Be kind to yourself at all times and never beat yourself up.
Being on a calorie deficit is hard. You can't do this journey on will power alone. You must set up your environment for success. Have a team around you in your real life, not just online. Get trigger foods out of the house. It will take some sacrifice and it's not easy.
There is no mystery to weight loss, everyone thinks something is wrong, their metabolism is broken, they have low thyroid, they have menopause or whatever issue, they are as unique as a snowflake, whatever. I thought a lot of these things once too but once the doctor helped resolve the health issues for me I learned there is still no magic pill. Most people eat more than they need to and are not at good at estimating calories as they think they are. Most people have a lower BMR than they think they do. The only way to know for sure is to go to a lab and have it tested. It doesn't seem fair to have to eat less and feel a little hunger. It's hard to face the truth of it, very hard. It's not fun. It's drudgery at times. But if you learn to enjoy your smaller amounts of food (necessary to lose weight, since the reason we got fat in the first place was eating too much whether we knew it or not), and rejoice in your victories it can be done.
Your body loses weight in chunks, not linear. I have found that you can do everything right and your weight loss seems to plateau but if you are patient and keep exercising and eating at a deficit (however slight) you will lose it, it will suddenly "whoosh". There are so many variables for the scale; water retention, digestion, hormones, allergies, sodium, carbs, water intake, DOMS, inflammation, the list goes on. People mistakenly think they lose or gain weight when they eat more or less because of these fluctuations.
Losing weight requires tremendous patience. You will not lose it when you want it or where you want it. The body does its thing. Some apparent plateaus can last a month or so. You cannot make it happen faster. You must focus on two things; calories and exercise. Nothing else matters. Scales and metrics don't matter. The day in and day out grind of exercise and calories are all that matters. It is not very exciting until things fall into place. You get your victories and you ride one victory to the next.
The scale is a trend tool. The scale is good but put it away and only check once a week and only use it as a trend tool. It will fluctuate, it does not matter. Take front side and back progress pictures at least once a month. You will see differences that the metrics won't tell you and it's that little bit of NSV that will keep you going until the next victory.
As far as calories…
To say eat more is wrong.
To say eat less is wrong.
If you plug in all your info (typically age, gender, height and weight) into one of those calculators what you get is the average metabolic rate of a group of people who share your age, sex, height and weight. What you DON’T get is YOUR EXACT calorie needs. It's a place to start.
To find the exact calories needed for YOU to be in a healthy sustainable calorie deficit is the right answer. Wait, if you need to adjust by 100 do it, wait, adjust, wait, adjust, wait. The tortoise wins this race.
You want to eat as healthy as you can because it makes you feel better and perform better, and makes you healthier. There are a bunch of tricks and clean eating; reducing sugar (especially HFCS), fiber, white flour vs whole grain, low carb, low fat, on and on. All that matters is calories for weight loss. If you need to eat a certain way for health reasons or to feel better do it, but extensive good food and bad food lists will drive you insane at some point, it’s a constantly moving target. Just eat what you like, mostly healthy, mostly balanced, within a calorie budget. We all know what healthy is by now, just do it.
Also people play mental accounting games with calories just like with finances. Make steps to make sure you are making accurate measurements. Packaged foods can have MORE than they say but not less (they get in trouble if less so they would rather error with MORE).
If you typically intake sodium at a certain rate your body adjusts, but if you make a sudden change then you will see a spike.
Exercise is for making your lean body mass pretty (especially lifting weights) for when the fat is gone. Losing fat with no muscle is ugly and cardio alone will not make you pretty. You cannot out exercise too many calories.
Everyone needs resistance training to improve their health and bone density and this will especially improve your quality of life when you get older. But you will not gain all that much lean body mass as fast as everyone thinks. Guys of course will gain more. A DXA scan will prove the point. There are lots of stories about changing size but no one REALLY knows unless they do a DXA scan. Here's more about that --> http://bradpilon.com/weight-loss/intermittent-fasting-and-bulking/ this is true whether you IF or not. My DXA scans proved that I really didn't gain that much lean body mass yet I look very muscular for a female. I have very high bone density from over 30 years of lifting yet my lean body mass is still only 104 lbs and my RMR is still only 1380.
I recently had my DXA scan done and at 51.5 years of age I have the bone density of a super athletic 30 year old. That is a direct result of lifting for over 30 years. Now if that is not scientific proof that lifting weights keeps you younger I don't know what is! Also I believe it is why most people think I look much younger than I really am. Because of this I don't have to worry about osteoporosis. If you wait until you are older and your bones start to deteriorate it's a bit too late, you can't get back what you lost, and you can only start a resistance routine that will prevent further damage.
Cardio is good for you but it is optional. I love cardio, but you can't out exercise too many calories. Of course you burn calories, but not near what all the HRM's say. I learned the hard way, running marathon after marathon (yes even multiple runs during the day), as well as hitting the gym hard, martial arts, staying active all the time, not eating while watching TV, not binging, not mindlessly eating, not pigging out, not having emotional eating issues, yet I gained weight year after year, each decade putting on the pounds. I worked harder and harder, not able to figure out what was wrong. It didn't seem like I ate too much, but for my small size I did and didn't realize it until just a few years ago when I finally started losing weight by eating less.
Everyone is different, but it's very easy to do a lot of cardio and think you can eat more than you really need, especially when you need to lose weight. It is also easy to think that you are burning more fat than you really are. Just do cardio if you enjoy it and because it's good for you.
Too many changes at once can be hard on some people. I've always eaten healthy so it easy for me to simply eat less. Eating at a calorie deficit is hard on people; even a small deficit puts your body in a state of flux with hormones and such. Everyone is different. Some people can handle a deeper calorie deficit than others, this is not right or wrong, it just is. Stress in your life affects your hunger hormones; lack of sleep, fatigue, job stress, family stress, financial stress, etc. Add in emotional eating issues and it gets even more complicated. Most people can only handle so much change/stress at once, they try to do too much and fail. Sometimes it might be a better strategy to eat at maintenance and make some small changes first, it really depends on how much stress you are taking in at the moment.
The good thing is you don't have to worry about the starvation mode myth if you are fat. Only skinny people have to worry about starvation mode. It does not mean you have the capability to eat at a large calorie deficit if you have emotional eating disorders or other issues going on, but at least you don't have to be afraid of it anymore.What is the exact number of calories for you?
We’ve been trying to figure out an exact NUMBER of calories that everyone should be eating, without recognizing that everyone is slightly different. In truth, the calories aren’t the end game. Your body is. So the EXACT amount of Calories that are right for you is the EXACT amount that will allow you to maintain your ideal bodyweight no matter what some calculator or chart says.
In other words, an online calculator might tell you that you need to eat 2,500 calories
per day to maintain your ideal bodyweight. But the only way to know for sure if this is
the right amount for you is to test it out. If you gain weight or can’t lose weight eating
that much, then you know you need to eat less to lose weight no matter how many
calculators and text books say otherwise.
This doesn’t mean your metabolism is broken, it just means the estimate of your needs
was just a bit off.
-John Barban (The Body Centric Calorie Guide from the Venus Index and Adonis Index Manuals)
I am short, petite, small; my RMR is low compared to others. With my doctors approval I had to eat less than or right around 1000 calories to lose weight. We are all different. There is no one size fits all. Even people my height and gender are different and some need more calories than I do. My doctor checked my hormone levels throughout my 60 lb weight loss journey (from obese down to 10% body fat) and everything was fine. I got stronger and stronger at the gym, my running and weight lifting strength improved even while eating on a significant calorie deficit. My DXA scan proved I did not lose lean body mass or go into starvation mode.
Also you do not have to eat the same amount of calories every day. You can think of it as a weekly calorie budget. You can eat low some days and high some days. You can be flexible. You can find what is sustainable for you.
While you don’t have to worry about starvation mode when you have significant fat on your body, as you get closer to your goal you do need to increase your calories slightly as you get leaner as here’s why:
The Theory of Fat Availability:
•There is a set amount of fat that can be released from a fat cell.
•The more fat you have, the more fat can be used as a fuel when dieting.
•The less fat you have, the less fat can be used as a fuel when dieting.
•Towards the end of a transformation, when body fat is extremely low you
may not have enough fat to handle a large caloric deficit anymore.
At the extreme low end, when your body fat cannot ‘keep up’ with the energy deficit
you've imposed on your body, the energy MUST come from SOMEWHERE. This is
when you are at risk of losing lean body mass during dieting (commonly referred to
as ‘starvation mode’). This happens at extremely low levels of body fat, under 6% in
men and 12% in women [Friedl K.E. J Appl Phsiol, 1994].
-Brad Pilon and John Barban (from The Reverse Taper Diet in The Adonis Index and Venus Index manuals)
For me it's all about a calorie budget. I had less of a budget available when I was losing weight, more to spend now that I'm maintaining and all the tools I used for weight loss come into play for the rest of my life maintaining.
When you have accumulated excess fat, you have accumulated a debt. It is hard to pay off the debt (you have less calories to spend). If you are sitting next to someone your same gender and height and they are not overweight and you are, they get to eat more than you (have more calories to spend) because they are debt free. You have less calories to spend because you are paying off your debt.
Wishing you the best! -Bobbie
Most of this wasn't even relevant to the OP.
or was it it relevant?
Well, no it probably wasn't.
I guess it really did take up a lot of space on this page.0 -
Bobbi, I love your story but is it possible you place these gigantic walls of text on your profile page and then just link to it in the threads? It really is an unfair hogging of the web pages and makes navigation harder for the rest of us.
Like the first commenter said everyone is different. Here is what worked for me, perhaps there will be one small thing that might help you:
We are all human. We have good days and bad days, all of our lives. The tools you find and use to get out of a funk will serve you the rest of your life, and you will always need them. I call it sharpening your sword for battle and you will always need to keep your blade sharp for the rest of your life. We may get to relax at times for a few moments, but life is a bit of work until the end.
There is nothing easy about this journey. Don't give up. Keep your eye on the prize. You do not have to be perfect to do this. You just have to have more good days than not. A bad day is not the end of the world. Tomorrow is a new day. Just pick it right up again. Be kind to yourself at all times and never beat yourself up.
Being on a calorie deficit is hard. You can't do this journey on will power alone. You must set up your environment for success. Have a team around you in your real life, not just online. Get trigger foods out of the house. It will take some sacrifice and it's not easy.
There is no mystery to weight loss, everyone thinks something is wrong, their metabolism is broken, they have low thyroid, they have menopause or whatever issue, they are as unique as a snowflake, whatever. I thought a lot of these things once too but once the doctor helped resolve the health issues for me I learned there is still no magic pill. Most people eat more than they need to and are not at good at estimating calories as they think they are. Most people have a lower BMR than they think they do. The only way to know for sure is to go to a lab and have it tested. It doesn't seem fair to have to eat less and feel a little hunger. It's hard to face the truth of it, very hard. It's not fun. It's drudgery at times. But if you learn to enjoy your smaller amounts of food (necessary to lose weight, since the reason we got fat in the first place was eating too much whether we knew it or not), and rejoice in your victories it can be done.
Your body loses weight in chunks, not linear. I have found that you can do everything right and your weight loss seems to plateau but if you are patient and keep exercising and eating at a deficit (however slight) you will lose it, it will suddenly "whoosh". There are so many variables for the scale; water retention, digestion, hormones, allergies, sodium, carbs, water intake, DOMS, inflammation, the list goes on. People mistakenly think they lose or gain weight when they eat more or less because of these fluctuations.
Losing weight requires tremendous patience. You will not lose it when you want it or where you want it. The body does its thing. Some apparent plateaus can last a month or so. You cannot make it happen faster. You must focus on two things; calories and exercise. Nothing else matters. Scales and metrics don't matter. The day in and day out grind of exercise and calories are all that matters. It is not very exciting until things fall into place. You get your victories and you ride one victory to the next.
The scale is a trend tool. The scale is good but put it away and only check once a week and only use it as a trend tool. It will fluctuate, it does not matter. Take front side and back progress pictures at least once a month. You will see differences that the metrics won't tell you and it's that little bit of NSV that will keep you going until the next victory.
As far as calories…
To say eat more is wrong.
To say eat less is wrong.
If you plug in all your info (typically age, gender, height and weight) into one of those calculators what you get is the average metabolic rate of a group of people who share your age, sex, height and weight. What you DON’T get is YOUR EXACT calorie needs. It's a place to start.
To find the exact calories needed for YOU to be in a healthy sustainable calorie deficit is the right answer. Wait, if you need to adjust by 100 do it, wait, adjust, wait, adjust, wait. The tortoise wins this race.
You want to eat as healthy as you can because it makes you feel better and perform better, and makes you healthier. There are a bunch of tricks and clean eating; reducing sugar (especially HFCS), fiber, white flour vs whole grain, low carb, low fat, on and on. All that matters is calories for weight loss. If you need to eat a certain way for health reasons or to feel better do it, but extensive good food and bad food lists will drive you insane at some point, it’s a constantly moving target. Just eat what you like, mostly healthy, mostly balanced, within a calorie budget. We all know what healthy is by now, just do it.
Also people play mental accounting games with calories just like with finances. Make steps to make sure you are making accurate measurements. Packaged foods can have MORE than they say but not less (they get in trouble if less so they would rather error with MORE).
If you typically intake sodium at a certain rate your body adjusts, but if you make a sudden change then you will see a spike.
Exercise is for making your lean body mass pretty (especially lifting weights) for when the fat is gone. Losing fat with no muscle is ugly and cardio alone will not make you pretty. You cannot out exercise too many calories.
Everyone needs resistance training to improve their health and bone density and this will especially improve your quality of life when you get older. But you will not gain all that much lean body mass as fast as everyone thinks. Guys of course will gain more. A DXA scan will prove the point. There are lots of stories about changing size but no one REALLY knows unless they do a DXA scan. Here's more about that --> http://bradpilon.com/weight-loss/intermittent-fasting-and-bulking/ this is true whether you IF or not. My DXA scans proved that I really didn't gain that much lean body mass yet I look very muscular for a female. I have very high bone density from over 30 years of lifting yet my lean body mass is still only 104 lbs and my RMR is still only 1380.
I recently had my DXA scan done and at 51.5 years of age I have the bone density of a super athletic 30 year old. That is a direct result of lifting for over 30 years. Now if that is not scientific proof that lifting weights keeps you younger I don't know what is! Also I believe it is why most people think I look much younger than I really am. Because of this I don't have to worry about osteoporosis. If you wait until you are older and your bones start to deteriorate it's a bit too late, you can't get back what you lost, and you can only start a resistance routine that will prevent further damage.
Cardio is good for you but it is optional. I love cardio, but you can't out exercise too many calories. Of course you burn calories, but not near what all the HRM's say. I learned the hard way, running marathon after marathon (yes even multiple runs during the day), as well as hitting the gym hard, martial arts, staying active all the time, not eating while watching TV, not binging, not mindlessly eating, not pigging out, not having emotional eating issues, yet I gained weight year after year, each decade putting on the pounds. I worked harder and harder, not able to figure out what was wrong. It didn't seem like I ate too much, but for my small size I did and didn't realize it until just a few years ago when I finally started losing weight by eating less.
Everyone is different, but it's very easy to do a lot of cardio and think you can eat more than you really need, especially when you need to lose weight. It is also easy to think that you are burning more fat than you really are. Just do cardio if you enjoy it and because it's good for you.
Too many changes at once can be hard on some people. I've always eaten healthy so it easy for me to simply eat less. Eating at a calorie deficit is hard on people; even a small deficit puts your body in a state of flux with hormones and such. Everyone is different. Some people can handle a deeper calorie deficit than others, this is not right or wrong, it just is. Stress in your life affects your hunger hormones; lack of sleep, fatigue, job stress, family stress, financial stress, etc. Add in emotional eating issues and it gets even more complicated. Most people can only handle so much change/stress at once, they try to do too much and fail. Sometimes it might be a better strategy to eat at maintenance and make some small changes first, it really depends on how much stress you are taking in at the moment.
The good thing is you don't have to worry about the starvation mode myth if you are fat. Only skinny people have to worry about starvation mode. It does not mean you have the capability to eat at a large calorie deficit if you have emotional eating disorders or other issues going on, but at least you don't have to be afraid of it anymore.What is the exact number of calories for you?
We’ve been trying to figure out an exact NUMBER of calories that everyone should be eating, without recognizing that everyone is slightly different. In truth, the calories aren’t the end game. Your body is. So the EXACT amount of Calories that are right for you is the EXACT amount that will allow you to maintain your ideal bodyweight no matter what some calculator or chart says.
In other words, an online calculator might tell you that you need to eat 2,500 calories
per day to maintain your ideal bodyweight. But the only way to know for sure if this is
the right amount for you is to test it out. If you gain weight or can’t lose weight eating
that much, then you know you need to eat less to lose weight no matter how many
calculators and text books say otherwise.
This doesn’t mean your metabolism is broken, it just means the estimate of your needs
was just a bit off.
-John Barban (The Body Centric Calorie Guide from the Venus Index and Adonis Index Manuals)
I am short, petite, small; my RMR is low compared to others. With my doctors approval I had to eat less than or right around 1000 calories to lose weight. We are all different. There is no one size fits all. Even people my height and gender are different and some need more calories than I do. My doctor checked my hormone levels throughout my 60 lb weight loss journey (from obese down to 10% body fat) and everything was fine. I got stronger and stronger at the gym, my running and weight lifting strength improved even while eating on a significant calorie deficit. My DXA scan proved I did not lose lean body mass or go into starvation mode.
Also you do not have to eat the same amount of calories every day. You can think of it as a weekly calorie budget. You can eat low some days and high some days. You can be flexible. You can find what is sustainable for you.
While you don’t have to worry about starvation mode when you have significant fat on your body, as you get closer to your goal you do need to increase your calories slightly as you get leaner as here’s why:
The Theory of Fat Availability:
•There is a set amount of fat that can be released from a fat cell.
•The more fat you have, the more fat can be used as a fuel when dieting.
•The less fat you have, the less fat can be used as a fuel when dieting.
•Towards the end of a transformation, when body fat is extremely low you
may not have enough fat to handle a large caloric deficit anymore.
At the extreme low end, when your body fat cannot ‘keep up’ with the energy deficit
you've imposed on your body, the energy MUST come from SOMEWHERE. This is
when you are at risk of losing lean body mass during dieting (commonly referred to
as ‘starvation mode’). This happens at extremely low levels of body fat, under 6% in
men and 12% in women [Friedl K.E. J Appl Phsiol, 1994].
-Brad Pilon and John Barban (from The Reverse Taper Diet in The Adonis Index and Venus Index manuals)
For me it's all about a calorie budget. I had less of a budget available when I was losing weight, more to spend now that I'm maintaining and all the tools I used for weight loss come into play for the rest of my life maintaining.
When you have accumulated excess fat, you have accumulated a debt. It is hard to pay off the debt (you have less calories to spend). If you are sitting next to someone your same gender and height and they are not overweight and you are, they get to eat more than you (have more calories to spend) because they are debt free. You have less calories to spend because you are paying off your debt.
Wishing you the best! -Bobbie
Most of this wasn't even relevant to the OP.
or was it it relevant?
Well, no it probably wasn't.
I guess it really did take up a lot of space on this page.
I hate people that do that.0 -
To the OP....I'm learning that it ain't about the scale. It's about how you feel and yes, the inches lost
Keep going, you're doing great!0 -
@NormalSaneFLG....that was awesome :drinker:0
-
Bobbi, I love your story but is it possible you place these gigantic walls of text on your profile page and then just link to it in the threads? It really is an unfair hogging of the web pages and makes navigation harder for the rest of us.
Like the first commenter said everyone is different. Here is what worked for me, perhaps there will be one small thing that might help you:
We are all human. We have good days and bad days, all of our lives. The tools you find and use to get out of a funk will serve you the rest of your life, and you will always need them. I call it sharpening your sword for battle and you will always need to keep your blade sharp for the rest of your life. We may get to relax at times for a few moments, but life is a bit of work until the end.
There is nothing easy about this journey. Don't give up. Keep your eye on the prize. You do not have to be perfect to do this. You just have to have more good days than not. A bad day is not the end of the world. Tomorrow is a new day. Just pick it right up again. Be kind to yourself at all times and never beat yourself up.
Being on a calorie deficit is hard. You can't do this journey on will power alone. You must set up your environment for success. Have a team around you in your real life, not just online. Get trigger foods out of the house. It will take some sacrifice and it's not easy.
There is no mystery to weight loss, everyone thinks something is wrong, their metabolism is broken, they have low thyroid, they have menopause or whatever issue, they are as unique as a snowflake, whatever. I thought a lot of these things once too but once the doctor helped resolve the health issues for me I learned there is still no magic pill. Most people eat more than they need to and are not at good at estimating calories as they think they are. Most people have a lower BMR than they think they do. The only way to know for sure is to go to a lab and have it tested. It doesn't seem fair to have to eat less and feel a little hunger. It's hard to face the truth of it, very hard. It's not fun. It's drudgery at times. But if you learn to enjoy your smaller amounts of food (necessary to lose weight, since the reason we got fat in the first place was eating too much whether we knew it or not), and rejoice in your victories it can be done.
Your body loses weight in chunks, not linear. I have found that you can do everything right and your weight loss seems to plateau but if you are patient and keep exercising and eating at a deficit (however slight) you will lose it, it will suddenly "whoosh". There are so many variables for the scale; water retention, digestion, hormones, allergies, sodium, carbs, water intake, DOMS, inflammation, the list goes on. People mistakenly think they lose or gain weight when they eat more or less because of these fluctuations.
Losing weight requires tremendous patience. You will not lose it when you want it or where you want it. The body does its thing. Some apparent plateaus can last a month or so. You cannot make it happen faster. You must focus on two things; calories and exercise. Nothing else matters. Scales and metrics don't matter. The day in and day out grind of exercise and calories are all that matters. It is not very exciting until things fall into place. You get your victories and you ride one victory to the next.
The scale is a trend tool. The scale is good but put it away and only check once a week and only use it as a trend tool. It will fluctuate, it does not matter. Take front side and back progress pictures at least once a month. You will see differences that the metrics won't tell you and it's that little bit of NSV that will keep you going until the next victory.
As far as calories…
To say eat more is wrong.
To say eat less is wrong.
If you plug in all your info (typically age, gender, height and weight) into one of those calculators what you get is the average metabolic rate of a group of people who share your age, sex, height and weight. What you DON’T get is YOUR EXACT calorie needs. It's a place to start.
To find the exact calories needed for YOU to be in a healthy sustainable calorie deficit is the right answer. Wait, if you need to adjust by 100 do it, wait, adjust, wait, adjust, wait. The tortoise wins this race.
You want to eat as healthy as you can because it makes you feel better and perform better, and makes you healthier. There are a bunch of tricks and clean eating; reducing sugar (especially HFCS), fiber, white flour vs whole grain, low carb, low fat, on and on. All that matters is calories for weight loss. If you need to eat a certain way for health reasons or to feel better do it, but extensive good food and bad food lists will drive you insane at some point, it’s a constantly moving target. Just eat what you like, mostly healthy, mostly balanced, within a calorie budget. We all know what healthy is by now, just do it.
Also people play mental accounting games with calories just like with finances. Make steps to make sure you are making accurate measurements. Packaged foods can have MORE than they say but not less (they get in trouble if less so they would rather error with MORE).
If you typically intake sodium at a certain rate your body adjusts, but if you make a sudden change then you will see a spike.
Exercise is for making your lean body mass pretty (especially lifting weights) for when the fat is gone. Losing fat with no muscle is ugly and cardio alone will not make you pretty. You cannot out exercise too many calories.
Everyone needs resistance training to improve their health and bone density and this will especially improve your quality of life when you get older. But you will not gain all that much lean body mass as fast as everyone thinks. Guys of course will gain more. A DXA scan will prove the point. There are lots of stories about changing size but no one REALLY knows unless they do a DXA scan. Here's more about that --> http://bradpilon.com/weight-loss/intermittent-fasting-and-bulking/ this is true whether you IF or not. My DXA scans proved that I really didn't gain that much lean body mass yet I look very muscular for a female. I have very high bone density from over 30 years of lifting yet my lean body mass is still only 104 lbs and my RMR is still only 1380.
I recently had my DXA scan done and at 51.5 years of age I have the bone density of a super athletic 30 year old. That is a direct result of lifting for over 30 years. Now if that is not scientific proof that lifting weights keeps you younger I don't know what is! Also I believe it is why most people think I look much younger than I really am. Because of this I don't have to worry about osteoporosis. If you wait until you are older and your bones start to deteriorate it's a bit too late, you can't get back what you lost, and you can only start a resistance routine that will prevent further damage.
Cardio is good for you but it is optional. I love cardio, but you can't out exercise too many calories. Of course you burn calories, but not near what all the HRM's say. I learned the hard way, running marathon after marathon (yes even multiple runs during the day), as well as hitting the gym hard, martial arts, staying active all the time, not eating while watching TV, not binging, not mindlessly eating, not pigging out, not having emotional eating issues, yet I gained weight year after year, each decade putting on the pounds. I worked harder and harder, not able to figure out what was wrong. It didn't seem like I ate too much, but for my small size I did and didn't realize it until just a few years ago when I finally started losing weight by eating less.
Everyone is different, but it's very easy to do a lot of cardio and think you can eat more than you really need, especially when you need to lose weight. It is also easy to think that you are burning more fat than you really are. Just do cardio if you enjoy it and because it's good for you.
Too many changes at once can be hard on some people. I've always eaten healthy so it easy for me to simply eat less. Eating at a calorie deficit is hard on people; even a small deficit puts your body in a state of flux with hormones and such. Everyone is different. Some people can handle a deeper calorie deficit than others, this is not right or wrong, it just is. Stress in your life affects your hunger hormones; lack of sleep, fatigue, job stress, family stress, financial stress, etc. Add in emotional eating issues and it gets even more complicated. Most people can only handle so much change/stress at once, they try to do too much and fail. Sometimes it might be a better strategy to eat at maintenance and make some small changes first, it really depends on how much stress you are taking in at the moment.
The good thing is you don't have to worry about the starvation mode myth if you are fat. Only skinny people have to worry about starvation mode. It does not mean you have the capability to eat at a large calorie deficit if you have emotional eating disorders or other issues going on, but at least you don't have to be afraid of it anymore.What is the exact number of calories for you?
We’ve been trying to figure out an exact NUMBER of calories that everyone should be eating, without recognizing that everyone is slightly different. In truth, the calories aren’t the end game. Your body is. So the EXACT amount of Calories that are right for you is the EXACT amount that will allow you to maintain your ideal bodyweight no matter what some calculator or chart says.
In other words, an online calculator might tell you that you need to eat 2,500 calories
per day to maintain your ideal bodyweight. But the only way to know for sure if this is
the right amount for you is to test it out. If you gain weight or can’t lose weight eating
that much, then you know you need to eat less to lose weight no matter how many
calculators and text books say otherwise.
This doesn’t mean your metabolism is broken, it just means the estimate of your needs
was just a bit off.
-John Barban (The Body Centric Calorie Guide from the Venus Index and Adonis Index Manuals)
I am short, petite, small; my RMR is low compared to others. With my doctors approval I had to eat less than or right around 1000 calories to lose weight. We are all different. There is no one size fits all. Even people my height and gender are different and some need more calories than I do. My doctor checked my hormone levels throughout my 60 lb weight loss journey (from obese down to 10% body fat) and everything was fine. I got stronger and stronger at the gym, my running and weight lifting strength improved even while eating on a significant calorie deficit. My DXA scan proved I did not lose lean body mass or go into starvation mode.
Also you do not have to eat the same amount of calories every day. You can think of it as a weekly calorie budget. You can eat low some days and high some days. You can be flexible. You can find what is sustainable for you.
While you don’t have to worry about starvation mode when you have significant fat on your body, as you get closer to your goal you do need to increase your calories slightly as you get leaner as here’s why:
The Theory of Fat Availability:
•There is a set amount of fat that can be released from a fat cell.
•The more fat you have, the more fat can be used as a fuel when dieting.
•The less fat you have, the less fat can be used as a fuel when dieting.
•Towards the end of a transformation, when body fat is extremely low you
may not have enough fat to handle a large caloric deficit anymore.
At the extreme low end, when your body fat cannot ‘keep up’ with the energy deficit
you've imposed on your body, the energy MUST come from SOMEWHERE. This is
when you are at risk of losing lean body mass during dieting (commonly referred to
as ‘starvation mode’). This happens at extremely low levels of body fat, under 6% in
men and 12% in women [Friedl K.E. J Appl Phsiol, 1994].
-Brad Pilon and John Barban (from The Reverse Taper Diet in The Adonis Index and Venus Index manuals)
For me it's all about a calorie budget. I had less of a budget available when I was losing weight, more to spend now that I'm maintaining and all the tools I used for weight loss come into play for the rest of my life maintaining.
When you have accumulated excess fat, you have accumulated a debt. It is hard to pay off the debt (you have less calories to spend). If you are sitting next to someone your same gender and height and they are not overweight and you are, they get to eat more than you (have more calories to spend) because they are debt free. You have less calories to spend because you are paying off your debt.
Wishing you the best! -Bobbie
Most of this wasn't even relevant to the OP.
or was it it relevant?
Well, no it probably wasn't.
I guess it really did take up a lot of space on this page.
I hate people that do that.
Do you know what you have done? Do you!?!?0 -
if you want to see the scale move.... then move it to a closet and dont step on it for at least a month maybe 2. go by how you feel. keep the food diary going and jjust move as much as you can. make small changes through out your day and you WILL see big results in the end!!!!! i promise you!:flowerforyou: stay positive and stay focused. you can do this. that stupid thing you stand on is just that. ..... a stupid thing to iss you off!!! dont let it!!!!
This, this, and oh yeah, this.
I actually threw my scale away and only weigh about every 2-3 months when I go to the mom-in-laws. And this is the longest I have stuck with anything, so it is working for me.0 -
Bobbi, I love your story but is it possible you place these gigantic walls of text on your profile page and then just link to it in the threads? It really is an unfair hogging of the web pages and makes navigation harder for the rest of us.
Like the first commenter said everyone is different. Here is what worked for me, perhaps there will be one small thing that might help you:
We are all human. We have good days and bad days, all of our lives. The tools you find and use to get out of a funk will serve you the rest of your life, and you will always need them. I call it sharpening your sword for battle and you will always need to keep your blade sharp for the rest of your life. We may get to relax at times for a few moments, but life is a bit of work until the end.
There is nothing easy about this journey. Don't give up. Keep your eye on the prize. You do not have to be perfect to do this. You just have to have more good days than not. A bad day is not the end of the world. Tomorrow is a new day. Just pick it right up again. Be kind to yourself at all times and never beat yourself up.
Being on a calorie deficit is hard. You can't do this journey on will power alone. You must set up your environment for success. Have a team around you in your real life, not just online. Get trigger foods out of the house. It will take some sacrifice and it's not easy.
There is no mystery to weight loss, everyone thinks something is wrong, their metabolism is broken, they have low thyroid, they have menopause or whatever issue, they are as unique as a snowflake, whatever. I thought a lot of these things once too but once the doctor helped resolve the health issues for me I learned there is still no magic pill. Most people eat more than they need to and are not at good at estimating calories as they think they are. Most people have a lower BMR than they think they do. The only way to know for sure is to go to a lab and have it tested. It doesn't seem fair to have to eat less and feel a little hunger. It's hard to face the truth of it, very hard. It's not fun. It's drudgery at times. But if you learn to enjoy your smaller amounts of food (necessary to lose weight, since the reason we got fat in the first place was eating too much whether we knew it or not), and rejoice in your victories it can be done.
Your body loses weight in chunks, not linear. I have found that you can do everything right and your weight loss seems to plateau but if you are patient and keep exercising and eating at a deficit (however slight) you will lose it, it will suddenly "whoosh". There are so many variables for the scale; water retention, digestion, hormones, allergies, sodium, carbs, water intake, DOMS, inflammation, the list goes on. People mistakenly think they lose or gain weight when they eat more or less because of these fluctuations.
Losing weight requires tremendous patience. You will not lose it when you want it or where you want it. The body does its thing. Some apparent plateaus can last a month or so. You cannot make it happen faster. You must focus on two things; calories and exercise. Nothing else matters. Scales and metrics don't matter. The day in and day out grind of exercise and calories are all that matters. It is not very exciting until things fall into place. You get your victories and you ride one victory to the next.
The scale is a trend tool. The scale is good but put it away and only check once a week and only use it as a trend tool. It will fluctuate, it does not matter. Take front side and back progress pictures at least once a month. You will see differences that the metrics won't tell you and it's that little bit of NSV that will keep you going until the next victory.
As far as calories…
To say eat more is wrong.
To say eat less is wrong.
If you plug in all your info (typically age, gender, height and weight) into one of those calculators what you get is the average metabolic rate of a group of people who share your age, sex, height and weight. What you DON’T get is YOUR EXACT calorie needs. It's a place to start.
To find the exact calories needed for YOU to be in a healthy sustainable calorie deficit is the right answer. Wait, if you need to adjust by 100 do it, wait, adjust, wait, adjust, wait. The tortoise wins this race.
You want to eat as healthy as you can because it makes you feel better and perform better, and makes you healthier. There are a bunch of tricks and clean eating; reducing sugar (especially HFCS), fiber, white flour vs whole grain, low carb, low fat, on and on. All that matters is calories for weight loss. If you need to eat a certain way for health reasons or to feel better do it, but extensive good food and bad food lists will drive you insane at some point, it’s a constantly moving target. Just eat what you like, mostly healthy, mostly balanced, within a calorie budget. We all know what healthy is by now, just do it.
Also people play mental accounting games with calories just like with finances. Make steps to make sure you are making accurate measurements. Packaged foods can have MORE than they say but not less (they get in trouble if less so they would rather error with MORE).
If you typically intake sodium at a certain rate your body adjusts, but if you make a sudden change then you will see a spike.
Exercise is for making your lean body mass pretty (especially lifting weights) for when the fat is gone. Losing fat with no muscle is ugly and cardio alone will not make you pretty. You cannot out exercise too many calories.
Everyone needs resistance training to improve their health and bone density and this will especially improve your quality of life when you get older. But you will not gain all that much lean body mass as fast as everyone thinks. Guys of course will gain more. A DXA scan will prove the point. There are lots of stories about changing size but no one REALLY knows unless they do a DXA scan. Here's more about that --> http://bradpilon.com/weight-loss/intermittent-fasting-and-bulking/ this is true whether you IF or not. My DXA scans proved that I really didn't gain that much lean body mass yet I look very muscular for a female. I have very high bone density from over 30 years of lifting yet my lean body mass is still only 104 lbs and my RMR is still only 1380.
I recently had my DXA scan done and at 51.5 years of age I have the bone density of a super athletic 30 year old. That is a direct result of lifting for over 30 years. Now if that is not scientific proof that lifting weights keeps you younger I don't know what is! Also I believe it is why most people think I look much younger than I really am. Because of this I don't have to worry about osteoporosis. If you wait until you are older and your bones start to deteriorate it's a bit too late, you can't get back what you lost, and you can only start a resistance routine that will prevent further damage.
Cardio is good for you but it is optional. I love cardio, but you can't out exercise too many calories. Of course you burn calories, but not near what all the HRM's say. I learned the hard way, running marathon after marathon (yes even multiple runs during the day), as well as hitting the gym hard, martial arts, staying active all the time, not eating while watching TV, not binging, not mindlessly eating, not pigging out, not having emotional eating issues, yet I gained weight year after year, each decade putting on the pounds. I worked harder and harder, not able to figure out what was wrong. It didn't seem like I ate too much, but for my small size I did and didn't realize it until just a few years ago when I finally started losing weight by eating less.
Everyone is different, but it's very easy to do a lot of cardio and think you can eat more than you really need, especially when you need to lose weight. It is also easy to think that you are burning more fat than you really are. Just do cardio if you enjoy it and because it's good for you.
Too many changes at once can be hard on some people. I've always eaten healthy so it easy for me to simply eat less. Eating at a calorie deficit is hard on people; even a small deficit puts your body in a state of flux with hormones and such. Everyone is different. Some people can handle a deeper calorie deficit than others, this is not right or wrong, it just is. Stress in your life affects your hunger hormones; lack of sleep, fatigue, job stress, family stress, financial stress, etc. Add in emotional eating issues and it gets even more complicated. Most people can only handle so much change/stress at once, they try to do too much and fail. Sometimes it might be a better strategy to eat at maintenance and make some small changes first, it really depends on how much stress you are taking in at the moment.
The good thing is you don't have to worry about the starvation mode myth if you are fat. Only skinny people have to worry about starvation mode. It does not mean you have the capability to eat at a large calorie deficit if you have emotional eating disorders or other issues going on, but at least you don't have to be afraid of it anymore.What is the exact number of calories for you?
We’ve been trying to figure out an exact NUMBER of calories that everyone should be eating, without recognizing that everyone is slightly different. In truth, the calories aren’t the end game. Your body is. So the EXACT amount of Calories that are right for you is the EXACT amount that will allow you to maintain your ideal bodyweight no matter what some calculator or chart says.
In other words, an online calculator might tell you that you need to eat 2,500 calories
per day to maintain your ideal bodyweight. But the only way to know for sure if this is
the right amount for you is to test it out. If you gain weight or can’t lose weight eating
that much, then you know you need to eat less to lose weight no matter how many
calculators and text books say otherwise.
This doesn’t mean your metabolism is broken, it just means the estimate of your needs
was just a bit off.
-John Barban (The Body Centric Calorie Guide from the Venus Index and Adonis Index Manuals)
I am short, petite, small; my RMR is low compared to others. With my doctors approval I had to eat less than or right around 1000 calories to lose weight. We are all different. There is no one size fits all. Even people my height and gender are different and some need more calories than I do. My doctor checked my hormone levels throughout my 60 lb weight loss journey (from obese down to 10% body fat) and everything was fine. I got stronger and stronger at the gym, my running and weight lifting strength improved even while eating on a significant calorie deficit. My DXA scan proved I did not lose lean body mass or go into starvation mode.
Also you do not have to eat the same amount of calories every day. You can think of it as a weekly calorie budget. You can eat low some days and high some days. You can be flexible. You can find what is sustainable for you.
While you don’t have to worry about starvation mode when you have significant fat on your body, as you get closer to your goal you do need to increase your calories slightly as you get leaner as here’s why:
The Theory of Fat Availability:
•There is a set amount of fat that can be released from a fat cell.
•The more fat you have, the more fat can be used as a fuel when dieting.
•The less fat you have, the less fat can be used as a fuel when dieting.
•Towards the end of a transformation, when body fat is extremely low you
may not have enough fat to handle a large caloric deficit anymore.
At the extreme low end, when your body fat cannot ‘keep up’ with the energy deficit
you've imposed on your body, the energy MUST come from SOMEWHERE. This is
when you are at risk of losing lean body mass during dieting (commonly referred to
as ‘starvation mode’). This happens at extremely low levels of body fat, under 6% in
men and 12% in women [Friedl K.E. J Appl Phsiol, 1994].
-Brad Pilon and John Barban (from The Reverse Taper Diet in The Adonis Index and Venus Index manuals)
For me it's all about a calorie budget. I had less of a budget available when I was losing weight, more to spend now that I'm maintaining and all the tools I used for weight loss come into play for the rest of my life maintaining.
When you have accumulated excess fat, you have accumulated a debt. It is hard to pay off the debt (you have less calories to spend). If you are sitting next to someone your same gender and height and they are not overweight and you are, they get to eat more than you (have more calories to spend) because they are debt free. You have less calories to spend because you are paying off your debt.
Wishing you the best! -Bobbie
Most of this wasn't even relevant to the OP.
or was it it relevant?
Well, no it probably wasn't.
I guess it really did take up a lot of space on this page.
I hate people that do that.
Do you know what you have done? Do you!?!?
you guys are awesome.0 -
OMG,please, by all means, keep posting the ^^^ original LONG @ss post & adding to it, making it longer than the Dead Sea Scrolls. Oh, the irony.0
-
I would make sure you are eating enough to properly fuel your body. And remember muscle weighs more then fat. Also slow and steady wins. You don't want to loss too quickly, if you do it's real easy to gain it back with a few days of cheating. That way if it's the holidays or just a vacation you will be able to have more wiggle room in what you eat. You still can't go crazy but it works. when I went on vacation this summer I didn't track my calories and when I got back 3 weeks later I weighed a pound less then when i had left.0
-
I don't have too much to add to the other good advice by people about not giving up, and don't worry about the scale, but I've been feeling a bit down today, and the gigantic walls of text gave me a little chuckle, so thank you for that. :flowerforyou:0
-
Could it be you're gaining muscle mass? That's why the scales haven't moved? I read that that could happen so you should gauge your progress either by the scales & by measuring yourself. Hey losing 3 inches is very good progress! I remember losing 1-2 inches and it reflected as a 1.5 kg of loss for me on the scales (I was just a newbie runner/jogger then so not much muscle mass)0
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