Clean Eating vs. Calorie Counting
KatLifter
Posts: 1,314 Member
I've been eating a (mostly) clean diet and even though I eat 5+ times a day, I'm usually right at my 1500 calorie goal with great macros. I can eat a huge meal and it will be ~400-500 calories. I have more energy and this is a SUSTAINABLE way to loose weight and keep it off. Oh, and I've pretty much stopped binging because I never feel deprived. Amazing.
Thoughts on this response from a trainer?
"...First, I don’t count calories, although I did for years when I was younger. In fact I have binders of notes on my daily food intake including a daily breakdown for carbs, fats and protein. It was A LOT of work and I was truly obsessed. Nowadays I can merely look at food and guess quite accurately how many calories it contains, it’s become intuitive for me. But what Heather is talking about is quite different.
If you think about how our bodies are designed and have evolved, our ancestors were not counting calories. They simply ate when food was available and / or when they were hungry. And I can guarantee you that they weren’t fat either. I’m always looking to nature for both exercise and nutrition cues and I think in this case we can learn a lot. My feeling is that calorie counting is needed if you subscribe to a modern diet that contains white products such as flour, rice, breads and the like or if you eat any type of processed foods from a can or box. In this case I think calorie counting is imperative, as processed foods and white products are the reason we’re a nation of overweight people. The sugar is generally too high, there’s little to no fiber, lots of laboratory made tastes and colors and overall they are condensed – meaning for a little bit of food you’re getting a lot of calories.
Now if you think about a whole food diet like the Paleo plan (I’m a fan), there are no potatoes, no rice, very little starch and sugar and absolutely nothing processed. The truth is calories in don’t equal calories out. In other words we used to think that calories were the only factor to consider when trying to lose weight but we now know that’s not true. Each food has a metabolic and hormonal effect on the body – some good and some bad. So to say that 100 calories of chocolate chip cookies is the same as 100 calories of broccoli is just wrong. One provides almost no nutrition while the other has fiber, nutrients and will make your body work hard to digest it. So you can see that merely calorie counting isn’t a great idea in this case. What’s truly important is what you eat, not how much you eat.
When you eat a whole food diet it’s nearly impossible to overeat. Sure foods like avocado, nuts and seeds are high in calories, but really how much are you going to eat of these? I don’t imagine many people sitting down and eating platefuls of these foods. On a whole food diet like Heather mentions, you’ll feel fuller-longer and in most cases will be eating bulkier foods – foods that are generally less calorie dense (vegetables, fruit) so again the feeling of being full will set in faster. So in this instance calorie counting is not needed as you’ll simply eat when you’re hungry or every few hours. It’s really a very simple plan that works and it does away with adding numbers up at each meal. If you simply aim to eat a lean protein source, vegetables and healthy fat (nuts, seeds, oils, avocado etc.) with the occasional fruit added in you’ll be golden. With this type of plan your natural feelings of being satisfied will kick in and I’d be surprised if you over-ate. If you look at most people who eat this way, and I mean TRULY eat this way not some of the time, you’ll notice that they are all of normal weight and in many cases very lean. In short, it’s how our bodies were designed that makes this plan work so well.
So Lilly, if you can give up white, processed high calorie foods and switch to a mostly whole, natural food diet, I bet you’ll lose the weight you want. Your blood sugar and insulin will constantly be low (great for fat burning), you’ll have better and more sustained energy and more importantly, you’ll be healthier because you won’t be ingesting all of the junk that comes with processed foods.
Look at it this way – nobody ever got fat eating vegetables, lean meats, fruits and nuts. In fact I’ve gone on record saying that this type of plan is a cure for obesity and would do away with the myriad of health problems we see in this country."
http://www.angrytrainerfitness.com/2012/11/ask-alfonso-should-i-count-calories-2/
-Kat
Thoughts on this response from a trainer?
"...First, I don’t count calories, although I did for years when I was younger. In fact I have binders of notes on my daily food intake including a daily breakdown for carbs, fats and protein. It was A LOT of work and I was truly obsessed. Nowadays I can merely look at food and guess quite accurately how many calories it contains, it’s become intuitive for me. But what Heather is talking about is quite different.
If you think about how our bodies are designed and have evolved, our ancestors were not counting calories. They simply ate when food was available and / or when they were hungry. And I can guarantee you that they weren’t fat either. I’m always looking to nature for both exercise and nutrition cues and I think in this case we can learn a lot. My feeling is that calorie counting is needed if you subscribe to a modern diet that contains white products such as flour, rice, breads and the like or if you eat any type of processed foods from a can or box. In this case I think calorie counting is imperative, as processed foods and white products are the reason we’re a nation of overweight people. The sugar is generally too high, there’s little to no fiber, lots of laboratory made tastes and colors and overall they are condensed – meaning for a little bit of food you’re getting a lot of calories.
Now if you think about a whole food diet like the Paleo plan (I’m a fan), there are no potatoes, no rice, very little starch and sugar and absolutely nothing processed. The truth is calories in don’t equal calories out. In other words we used to think that calories were the only factor to consider when trying to lose weight but we now know that’s not true. Each food has a metabolic and hormonal effect on the body – some good and some bad. So to say that 100 calories of chocolate chip cookies is the same as 100 calories of broccoli is just wrong. One provides almost no nutrition while the other has fiber, nutrients and will make your body work hard to digest it. So you can see that merely calorie counting isn’t a great idea in this case. What’s truly important is what you eat, not how much you eat.
When you eat a whole food diet it’s nearly impossible to overeat. Sure foods like avocado, nuts and seeds are high in calories, but really how much are you going to eat of these? I don’t imagine many people sitting down and eating platefuls of these foods. On a whole food diet like Heather mentions, you’ll feel fuller-longer and in most cases will be eating bulkier foods – foods that are generally less calorie dense (vegetables, fruit) so again the feeling of being full will set in faster. So in this instance calorie counting is not needed as you’ll simply eat when you’re hungry or every few hours. It’s really a very simple plan that works and it does away with adding numbers up at each meal. If you simply aim to eat a lean protein source, vegetables and healthy fat (nuts, seeds, oils, avocado etc.) with the occasional fruit added in you’ll be golden. With this type of plan your natural feelings of being satisfied will kick in and I’d be surprised if you over-ate. If you look at most people who eat this way, and I mean TRULY eat this way not some of the time, you’ll notice that they are all of normal weight and in many cases very lean. In short, it’s how our bodies were designed that makes this plan work so well.
So Lilly, if you can give up white, processed high calorie foods and switch to a mostly whole, natural food diet, I bet you’ll lose the weight you want. Your blood sugar and insulin will constantly be low (great for fat burning), you’ll have better and more sustained energy and more importantly, you’ll be healthier because you won’t be ingesting all of the junk that comes with processed foods.
Look at it this way – nobody ever got fat eating vegetables, lean meats, fruits and nuts. In fact I’ve gone on record saying that this type of plan is a cure for obesity and would do away with the myriad of health problems we see in this country."
http://www.angrytrainerfitness.com/2012/11/ask-alfonso-should-i-count-calories-2/
-Kat
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Replies
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This actually sounds like the EXACT speech my trainer gave me - he is trying to convert me to Paleo. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against it, but I'm not for it either. I have researched it and I just have trouble with any "plan" that would advise it's okay to indulge in beer from time to time but dairy is off limits.
That said... I have been trying to eat cleaner as well. To me that means FRESH foods. Fresh meats, fruits and veggies. Since I have been more committed to eating this way and indulging less in rolls, and ice cream and cookies etc (all within my calorie goals) I have seen a difference in my weight loss and body shaping.
I say keep doing what you are doing. You are already eating clean and aware of the effects on your body. Take the speech with a grain of salt and know that we must do what works for us individually
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This actually sounds like the EXACT speech my trainer gave me - he is trying to convert me to Paleo. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against it, but I'm not for it either. I have researched it and I just have trouble with any "plan" that would advise it's okay to indulge in beer from time to time but dairy is off limits.
That said... I have been trying to eat cleaner as well. To me that means FRESH foods. Fresh meats, fruits and veggies. Since I have been more committed to eating this way and indulging less in rolls, and ice cream and cookies etc (all within my calorie goals) I have seen a difference in my weight loss and body shaping.
I say keep doing what you are doing. You are already eating clean and aware of the effects on your body. Take the speech with a grain of salt and know that we must do what works for us individually
I completely agree with you about the Paleo part - too restrictive for me. But I'm wishing more people on MFP would worry more about the quality of their food intake than staying at 1,200 calories.0 -
I could totally eat a plateful of avocado.0
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That is a good point. I usually eat fairly clean meals, but with 'junk' as snacks. Today I am trying an experiment. I'm going to eat only clean foods, and try to eat all of my calories. (1,500 + going to eat back all my exercise calories tonight). I've been curious how different I will feel.0
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I could totally eat a plateful of avocado.
I was thinking the same thing. Or almonds. Or almond butter.0 -
That is a good point. I usually eat fairly clean meals, but with 'junk' as snacks. Today I am trying an experiment. I'm going to eat only clean foods, and try to eat all of my calories. (1,500 + going to eat back all my exercise calories tonight). I've been curious how different I will feel.
Jesswait, you just wait! You're going to feel fabulous!
Now, let's grab a spoon and some coconut butter and watch the Paleo haters go wild on this thread, as always
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Thoughts on this response from a trainer?
Yes, but my thoughts may not be popular. I'll share them anyways"...First, I don’t count calories, although I did for years when I was younger. In fact I have binders of notes on my daily food intake including a daily breakdown for carbs, fats and protein. It was A LOT of work and I was truly obsessed.
This is a legitimate concern among some calorie counting people. It can really become obsessive and it's a very valid reason not to do it or to do it intermittently if you're the type that gets easily obsessed about it.Nowadays I can merely look at food and guess quite accurately how many calories it contains, it’s become intuitive for me.
This is possible. Not sure how accurate this person really is, but I wouldn't say that it can't be done.If you think about how our bodies are designed and have evolved, our ancestors were not counting calories. They simply ate when food was available and / or when they were hungry. And I can guarantee you that they weren’t fat either.
They also didn't have desk jobs, playstations, XBoxes, Internet, and quite bluntly they didn't have nearly as much *kitten*-sitting.My feeling is that calorie counting is needed if you subscribe to a modern diet that contains white products such as flour, rice, breads and the like or if you eat any type of processed foods from a can or box. In this case I think calorie counting is imperative, as processed foods and white products are the reason we’re a nation of overweight people. The sugar is generally too high, there’s little to no fiber, lots of laboratory made tastes and colors and overall they are condensed – meaning for a little bit of food you’re getting a lot of calories.
Energy density and nutrient density matter, but the demonizing of white foods here is just plain silly. White potatoes and white rice and GASP white bread are perfectly fine. So are sugars. What's not fine is eating in an energy surplus for prolonged periods of time.Now if you think about a whole food diet like the Paleo plan (I’m a fan), there are no potatoes, no rice, very little starch and sugar and absolutely nothing processed. The truth is calories in don’t equal calories out. In other words we used to think that calories were the only factor to consider when trying to lose weight but we now know that’s not true. Each food has a metabolic and hormonal effect on the body – some good and some bad. So to say that 100 calories of chocolate chip cookies is the same as 100 calories of broccoli is just wrong. One provides almost no nutrition while the other has fiber, nutrients and will make your body work hard to digest it. So you can see that merely calorie counting isn’t a great idea in this case. What’s truly important is what you eat, not how much you eat.
Withholding my opinion of Paleo so as to not start a flame war -- a calorie is a calorie. Period. It is a unit of energy. Now here is where it gets tricky: Each macronutrient is utilized differently. Proteins are used for amino acids, or sometimes converted to glucose via gluconeogensis. Carbohydrates are utilized for energy or on very rare occasion stored as fat via de novo lipogensis (more often an excess of carbs blunts fat oxidation and increases storage of fat directly but it's not the carbs being stored as fat per se). So 100 calories of chicken is not the same as 100 calories of vegetable oil, but the ENERGY IN is still the same. This is where the whole argument about calories ends up being one big twisted mish-mash of people confusing each other without clarification. The people saying "a calorie is a calorie" sometimes neglect the differences in substrate utilization and the people on the other side of the fence say "100 calories of cookies is not the same as 100 calories of beef and therefore thermodynamics is invalid and calories do not determine weight gain/loss".
Based on the above in quotes, I disagree with your trainer. I don't think he/she is placing proper emphasis on energy balance.
Nutrient density is important for health
Macronutrient intake is [/b]important for body composition[/b].
Calories are fundamentally important for weight loss (or gain).
Making statements that ignore any of that, in my opinion, is ignorant.When you eat a whole food diet it’s nearly impossible to overeat.
I disagree. I can easily eat in a calorie surplus of whole foods. EASILY.
I DO agree that calorie dense foods are easier to over-eat, and that it's easier to create a calorie surplus given a box of donuts and a tub of ice cream, vs a bag of broccoli and chicken breast.
*snip*If you look at most people who eat this way, and I mean TRULY eat this way not some of the time, you’ll notice that they are all of normal weight and in many cases very lean. In short, it’s how our bodies were designed that makes this plan work so well.
I don't buy the "design" argument. Now having said that, I DO agree that eating whole and nutrient dense foods is a good foundation to build a diet on. I do not think it needs to be an all or nothing endeavor, nor would I say that all people who eat whole foods are lean and fit.So Lilly, if you can give up white, processed high calorie foods and switch to a mostly whole, natural food diet, I bet you’ll lose the weight you want. Your blood sugar and insulin will constantly be low (great for fat burning), you’ll have better and more sustained energy and more importantly, you’ll be healthier because you won’t be ingesting all of the junk that comes with processed foods.
Protein is insulinogenic and this is where most people go wrong with the claim that eliminating carbs = chronic low insulin. http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=319
Additionally, I'll repeat that eating mostly whole and nutrient dense foods is a great idea. Eliminating "white carbs" is not necessary nor is it beneficial.0 -
Not true. But whatever works for you.0
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I think whether calorie counting is needed completely depends on the individual. I didn't count when I lost weight, or throughout the 40 years before I became overweight. But I didn't always eat "clean" either. I just didn't want to be fat, so I didn't overeat and after I had children in my 20's, I did focus on eating healthy foods, though many would not be considered clean.
But I do know that healthy eating does not require a Paleo type diet. Paleo excludes many foods that are healthy.0 -
I know for me calorie counting is a method to help me "learn to eat right". Over the months of counting calories i gained knowledge about nutrient dense foods and in general better quality foods. For me anyway, I learned which foods helped me feel full but did not blow away my calories for the day. I'm sure I could have taken classes or learned this some other way, but daily colorie counting made it sink in for me. Even the trainer stated that they used to count calories for several years. That process probably helped them gain a lot of their current knowledge also.
So for me anyway, calorie counting was/is a learning tool. Along with the various MFP forums and other research I do, it is one tool in the toolbox for repairing and the routine maintenance of my weight.0 -
I found what the trainer said to be true. I never lost any weight "eating what I wanted within a certain calorie range"................my Dr's had me decreasing the calorie counts thinking my body needed less and less and less. Still no weight loss.
Diagnosed as a Type 2 Diabetic, Hypo-thyroid, PCOS and fibromyalgia having mess and changing to eating high fat, moderate protein and letting the carbs (from fruits and vegetables only) fall where they may I began to lose weight as my body started healing.
The Endocrinologist I went to see that specializes in treatment of Diabetes and other Metabolic issues also says that Calories in / Calories out is not true. She stated that it is the QUALITY of the food you eat that matters...........not the QUANTITY.0 -
This actually sounds like the EXACT speech my trainer gave me - he is trying to convert me to Paleo. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against it, but I'm not for it either. I have researched it and I just have trouble with any "plan" that would advise it's okay to indulge in beer from time to time but dairy is off limits.
That said... I have been trying to eat cleaner as well. To me that means FRESH foods. Fresh meats, fruits and veggies. Since I have been more committed to eating this way and indulging less in rolls, and ice cream and cookies etc (all within my calorie goals) I have seen a difference in my weight loss and body shaping.
I say keep doing what you are doing. You are already eating clean and aware of the effects on your body. Take the speech with a grain of salt and know that we must do what works for us individually
Umm, I have never heard of any Paleo plan that allows beer. Beers are made from different types of grains.
The only alcohol I consume is wine and tequila and I have kept it to special occasions. This year I have drank Memorial Day weekend, my birthday, wedding anniversary and Thanksgiving. I will have some wine this weekend as I am going to a wine festival with my step-mom and I may have some at Christmas and New Years.
And I know plenty of Paleo people that partake in RAW dairy, not that crap stuff sold in the store though. The homogenization and pasturization process kills all that is good about dairy.
I would venture the say that whomever or wherever you got that information - they are not living a Paleo lifestyle.0
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