Calories/Carbs/Fat/Sugar

iselena08

Why do you avoid fruits?

Crayvn

It's actually very simple:

The "good" calories and carbs are the ones that keep you within your calorie and macro goals.

The "bad" calories and carbs are the ones in excess of that.

^ Agreed.

For the OP: The only things I would add to the above, to use a general set of criteria would be as follows:

1) Does it cause me discomfort or do I have a medical reason to avoid this food? Does it cause me to binge eat?

If so, avoid it.

Beyond that, I would focus instead on fitting foods into your daily targets for calories and macronutrients. I would urge you to also use some common sense regarding nutrient densities. What this means is, eat lots of vegetables, fruits, fresh and whole food sources on a regular basis. If you want some foods that you deem naughty but they fall outside of the above condition (lets say you want a bowl of ice cream), and you can fit it into your intake, and you're not eating so much damn ice cream that you're avoiding fruits and vegetables and nutrient dense foods, then have some ice cream and don't feel guilty about it.

A donut will not make you fat. Neither will cheese (lol cwutididthere?). Hypercaloric diets make you fat, period. It's just that a donut may cost you 400 calories and give you "not much" in the grand scheme of nutrients. A plate of fish and some fruit and a big bowl of green vegetables will give you a lot in terms of nutrients. But this does not make fish good and a donut bad, and this does not mean that you can't have donuts as a part of what is otherwise a nutrient dense and intelligent diet.

Apply this common sense, hit your macros, get off the couch, and I promise you, you will win at this game and you will probably have great long term adherence.

This doesn't have to be miserable.

^^Agreed.....

craigineson

Well, I am glad that it suits you well to be overly restrictive. No harm, no foul. I don't think it works for the vast majority of people though. You are a special snowflake.

Never once in the past four years have I felt restricted. In fact, I've never felt more free.
After getting off the insulin roller-coaster, food and hunger no longer control me; I control them.

I also don't believe the diet will work for everyone (such a diet does not exist) - In fact, the diet that I think would be most accessible to many would be a diet I read about that's far less restrictive (in a book called "Life Without Bread" by Wulfgang Lutz, he emphasises fat and protein, but decreases carbohydrates to 72g net per day, a perfectly reasonable number).

Mine suits my personal circumstances and is modified for me personally based on my training goals.

Phaedra2014

Here's my take on things.
(in a rather Christmas theme now we're in december)...

On the "nice" list:
- Fatty Meat (well... preferably fatty, but lean is good too)
- Grass fed beef
- Oily Fish
- Leaf Green Veg
- Nuts
- Seeds
- Eggs
- Avocados
- Olive, Coconut, and Avocado Oil (virgin, cold pressed) and Butter / Ghee
- Occasional bit of red wine
- Occasional high-coca chocolate (we're talking 85%+ here)

On the "naughty" list:
- Factory farmed produce and factory raised meat (battery chickens, CAFO raised beef, etc) - Not that we have CAFOs in the UK!
- Starchy vegetables
- Fruit
- All dairy, except butter
- All grains
- Sugar and high-fructose corn syrup
- Any hydrogenated oil

This fits my nutritional goals and general well being. Many would disagree, especially with my stance on grains and dairy.

I agree wholeheartedly with Firefox7275 in that omega 3:6 balance is very important, because the omega-3s are anti-inflammatory and the omega-6s are inflammatory. The Western world eats fat too much Omega-6 and this can contribute to the whole spectrum of inflammatory diseases - diabetes, heart disease, etc.

Just my two cents. I'm sure someone'll find reason to flame this post as they usually do.

Do you eat fish?

craigineson

Why do you avoid fruits?

The nutrients to sugar ratio doesn't suit me. I can get far more benefit from leafy green vegetables, salad leaves, and other non-starchy vegetables without the sugar or starch.

craigineson

Do you eat fish?

When I do, it's generally oily fish, which is the second item on my list. I do have concerns about dioxins and heavy metals, but I take chlorella to handle those.

love4fitnesslove4food_wechange

Well, I am glad that it suits you well to be overly restrictive. No harm, no foul. I don't think it works for the vast majority of people though. You are a special snowflake.

Never once in the past four years have I felt restricted. In fact, I've never felt more free.
After getting off the insulin roller-coaster, food and hunger no longer control me; I control them.

I also don't believe the diet will work for everyone (such a diet does not exist) - In fact, the diet that I think would be most accessible to many would be a diet I read about that's far less restrictive (in a book called "Life Without Bread" by Wulfgang Lutz, he emphasises fat and protein, but decreases carbohydrates to 72g net per day, a perfectly reasonable number).

Mine suits my personal circumstances and is modified for me personally based on my training goals.

72g. Interesting number. What is the basic premise of the book? Does it go into insulin sensitivity? Bloat? Allergies? What is the overall stance of the author as to why it's necessary to be restrictive at all (in terms of what we eat)?

Phaedra2014

When I do, it's generally oily fish, which is the second item on my list. I do have concerns about dioxins and heavy metals, but I take chlorella to handle those.

I don't disagree with your list of foods you consume. I am not a fan of processed foods either and I think the closer we stick to "whole" foods, the better it is for us in the long haul. I recently cut out gluten, grains (kept brown basmati rice) and dairy. I feel like *kitten* so far but my hope is that I will feel better soon.

rml_16

What's considered good or bad is not standardized and opinions about what is bad are generally looked at from an extreme point of view. The post above is a good example of that.....basi8cally there are no bad foods, just bad diets.

So you're saying my diet is extreme?
What's so extreme about not eating things that make me feel ill, or deteriorate my health?
What's so extreme about eating whole, natural foods which are (as far as I can) ethically sourced?
What's so extreme about me sharing some of the things that I do that's change my life in the hope that I help just one other person?

What would be extreme (extreme idiocy, that is) is identifying that grains mess up my stomach, that dairy gives me acne, that hydrogenated fats are plain and simple bad, and then carry on eating them anyway (because they're "healthy", didn't you know?)

I've made a lifestyle choice through years of careful planning, personal experience and experimentation as to what works for me and what makes sense from the scientific literature. Don't judge me as "extreme" simply because you don't agree with what I do, because I wouldn't judge someone based on what works for them.

I made some recommendations from my view-point, which is more than you have done on this thread.

Any person who says fruit is on the "naughty list" is someone I will never listen to for dietary advice.

As for the grains and dairy, I'm sorry you've had a rough time with them. Not everyone has whatever conditions you have that make that happen. I eat whole grains and dairy to my heart's content with no problems. I'm healthy, feel great and am losing weight.

Phaedra2014

Any person who says fruit is on the "naughty list" is someone I will never listen to for dietary advice.

The poster was saying what worked for him. It's not dietary advice for anyone.

craigineson

72g. Interesting number. What is the basic premise of the book? Does it go into insulin sensitivity? Bloat? Allergies? What is the overall stance of the author as to why it's necessary to be restrictive at all (in terms of what we eat)?

The basic premise of the book, as far as I remember, is that excess carbohydrates are responsible for many human ailments. He presents whole chapters on - Hormonal balance, Diabetes, Insulin Sensitivity, Energy, Heart disease, Gastro-intestinal disorders, Weight Control, Vitamin, Mineral and Co-factor deficiencies, Hypertension and Cancer.

The message is quite simple: Whatever you spend your 72g on is up to you, just don't exceed it.

The book, although presenting scientific studies from the wider community, talks extensively about his practice in personally treating over 10,000 obese patients.

Sure, it's not suitable for those looking to bulk, but your average Joe or Jill just doesn't need that much carbohydrate.

ironanimal

Why do you avoid fruits?

Because he is ridiculous.

Phaedra2014

Because he is ridiculous.

Or maybe because the same vitamins and minerals present in fruit can be obtained from another food source, minus the fructose. Believe it or not, there are many, many people who do not have the enzymes in their bodies to digest fruit.

rml_16

Any person who says fruit is on the "naughty list" is someone I will never listen to for dietary advice.

The poster was saying what worked for him. It's not dietary advice for anyone.

Interesting. It sure came across that way.

chocl8girl

neanderthin

Because he is ridiculous.

Or maybe because the same vitamins and minerals present in fruit can be obtained from another food source, minus the fructose. Believe it or not, there are many, many people who do not have the enzymes in their bodies to digest fruit.

He's not eating fruit because it's not nutritious enough and has the dreaded fructose, not because he can't digest it, I would imagine he doesn't consume starchy vegetables because their vegetables, no that can't be right, it must be the dreaded starch.

dorothytd

This topic is making me crave calories, carbs, fat and sugar. I have 500 calories left and hear the ice cream calling.

Phaedra2014

It's OK to have different beliefs as far as nutrition is concerned. I stay away from starchy, sugary foods too for my own health reasons and beliefs. I hope that doesn't make me a ridiculous person.

neanderthin

It's OK to have different beliefs as far as nutrition is concerned. I stay away from starchy, sugary foods too for my own health reasons and beliefs. I hope that doesn't make me a ridiculous person.

Only if you put them on the naughty list and tell people they're bad. There's certain types of food that I Don't eat, but I would never tell someone their bad for everyone, because that doesn't make sense, or at least I'm hoping that it makes sense, but alas, not to be.

wackyfunster

http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=319

I'll just leave that there.

TL;DR: Low-carb != low insulin. Many low carb diets produce the same insulin-related issues as high-carb diets (e.g. hydrolized whey protein has a comparable insulinogenic profile to most starches). The issue is chronically elevated insulin, which is the result of "grazing" or "eating 5-6 meals per day to keep your metabolism going". Eat 2-3 discrete meals and/or fast regularly, and you will have 0 insulin-related problems.

Tested this last year by eating 400+g of carbs on workout days (generally 100-200g sugar). Also tripled my intake of saturated fats and cholesterol. All measures of health improved from last year (and last year my doctor referred to me as 'the most disgustingly healthy person' he had ever seen), which indicates body composition is probably more important than diet. My diary is open, and I have logged everything I've eaten for the last year or so (barring thanksgiving, where I just logged 9000 calories, which I did not quite hit despite a noble effort)

For those who care, here is a simple formula to be extremely healthy:
0) Don't be fat. Men should shoot for a body fat percentage around 10-14%, women around 18-22% (this varies based upon genetics and build). Get MOAR LBM (more muscle = more healthy), within the boundaries of your genetic capabilities (i.e. steroids will not improve your level of health).
1) Fast regularly (1 24-hour fast per week is adequate, or 14/16 hour daily for women/men respectively)
2) Exercise regularly (do weights 2-3x/week, low-intensity steady state cardio as much as you want, and high-intensity interval training 1-3x/week)
3) Do not do high-intensity steady state cardio (check the research on CRP numbers in athletes, and you'll see that endurance athletes have CRP numbers comparable to or higher than the regular out of shape+overweight population, while athletes who limit activity to short bursts have CRP numbers that are several times lower). This is doubly bad if you are at a caloric deficit.
4) Get enough protein (1g/lb LBM is adequate unless you are weight training at a caloric deficit, in which case around 1.3 will improve preservation of lean body mass)
5) Don't overeat every day (have at least one day/week at a caloric deficit)
6) Don't undereat every day (have at least one day/week at a caloric surplus)
7) Supplement whatever you are not getting from your diet. Most people need a multi, omega-3, vitamin d, and magnesium at least. If your diet doesn't require any supplementation, then my hat is off to you. Anti-oxidants are probably good for most people as well, as we are exposed to a ton of oxidative stress from chemical additives and environmental pollution. Personally, I supplement ALL the things.
8) If you have issues indicative of inflammation, get tested for food sensitivities: there is a blood test called the Mediator Release Test/MRT which tests for the release of inflammatory mediators in response to food. This is way more accurate than the general "inflammatory/anti-inflammatory foods" lists you see floating around. E.g. in my case I can eat gluten, solanine-containing things, sugar, etc. til the cows come home, but if I have any berries, green leafy stuff, sweet potatoes, lentils, tea, etc. I am miserable for days. Avoid stuff that your body is not designed to process. There is no one-size fits all diet.

Just my 2c.

Cranktastic

It's OK to have different beliefs as far as nutrition is concerned. I stay away from starchy, sugary foods too for my own health reasons and beliefs. I hope that doesn't make me a ridiculous person.

Only if you put them on the naughty list and tell people they're bad. There's certain types of food that I Don't eat, but I would never tell someone their bad for everyone, because that doesn't make sense, or at least I'm hoping that it makes sense, but alas, not to be.

I like you

lrose50

I think it's a matter of figuring out fast carbs vs slow carbs. You can search on-line to get lists of both. Also when checking labels reduce the amount of fibre from the carbs to get your "net carbs". This will help in choosing foods.

rml_16

It's OK to have different beliefs as far as nutrition is concerned. I stay away from starchy, sugary foods too for my own health reasons and beliefs. I hope that doesn't make me a ridiculous person.

Only if you put them on the naughty list and tell people they're bad. There's certain types of food that I Don't eat, but I would never tell someone their bad for everyone, because that doesn't make sense, or at least I'm hoping that it makes sense, but alas, not to be.

Yes!

I stopped eating meat the day I couldn't stop seeing the animals' faces every time I even thought about eating meat. But that doesn't mean it's a "naughty" food and no one should eat it. I also had to stop eating cow milk yogurt and using cow's milk for a while because it made me sick. I thought it was a lactose intolerance, but it turns out it was a bad gallbladder. But that didn't make yogurt and milk bad for everyone -- just for me.

I also don't eat peaches. I simply don't like how they taste. Some people like them.

cinderelli83

Ok wow.
THANK YOU TO ALL THOSE WHO HAVE POSTED IN THIS AND HAVE OFFERED THEIR OPINIONS ON WHAT THEY BELIEVE ARE GOOD/BAD FOODS WHILE ON A REDUCED CALORIC INTAKE DIET.

After 3 pages of posts- 2 pages of people arguing... LOL... here is what I take from it:

- Listen to your body. Try, and observe. Your body will tell you what works and what doesnt.
- Pay attention to what "treat" foods act more like a springboard into the swimming pool of empty calories, and what "treat" foods actually satisfy and fulfil the current craving.
- The fresh Prince is STILL motivational.

Thanks again everyone! Really!

WendyTerry420

which are good carbs/calories and which are bad carbs/calories? Aside from the obvious- veggies are good, chocolate pudding is bad.

I have been feeling GREAT with my reduced caloric intake... now i'm just wondering... how can i improve on this?

There is no such thing as good food and bad food. Chocolate pudding is not bad unless it's the only food you eat. But a small serving of it after dinner is a good thing, if you like chocolate pudding.

Akimajuktuq

Here's my take on things.
(in a rather Christmas theme now we're in december)...

On the "nice" list:
- Fatty Meat (well... preferably fatty, but lean is good too)
- Grass fed beef
- Oily Fish
- Leaf Green Veg
- Nuts
- Seeds
- Eggs
- Avocados
- Olive, Coconut, and Avocado Oil (virgin, cold pressed) and Butter / Ghee
- Occasional bit of red wine
- Occasional high-coca chocolate (we're talking 85%+ here)

On the "naughty" list:
- Factory farmed produce and factory raised meat (battery chickens, CAFO raised beef, etc) - Not that we have CAFOs in the UK!
- Starchy vegetables
- Fruit
- All dairy, except butter
- All grains
- Sugar and high-fructose corn syrup
- Any hydrogenated oil

This fits my nutritional goals and general well being. Many would disagree, especially with my stance on grains and dairy.

I agree wholeheartedly with Firefox7275 in that omega 3:6 balance is very important, because the omega-3s are anti-inflammatory and the omega-6s are inflammatory. The Western world eats fat too much Omega-6 and this can contribute to the whole spectrum of inflammatory diseases - diabetes, heart disease, etc.

Just my two cents. I'm sure someone'll find reason to flame this post as they usually do.

Yeah, I've almost given up trying to help. Apparently, using food as medicine (ie nourishment for our bodies) and the resulting resolution of serious health problems is a "fad" and "too restrictive".

But the advice to switch from regular chocolate pudding to sugar free, low fat, etc, will be heralded as terrific advice. Yup. Whatever.

FWIW I'm pretty much on the same page as you.

Helloitsdan

http://www.simplyshredded.com/the-science-of-nutrition-is-a-carb-a-carb.html

Please read and understand.

All things in moderation.

Akimajuktuq

When I do, it's generally oily fish, which is the second item on my list. I do have concerns about dioxins and heavy metals, but I take chlorella to handle those.

I don't disagree with your list of foods you consume. I am not a fan of processed foods either and I think the closer we stick to "whole" foods, the better it is for us in the long haul. I recently cut out gluten, grains (kept brown basmati rice) and dairy. I feel like *kitten* so far but my hope is that I will feel better soon.

I don't know how long you have been at it, but you shouldn't feel like *kitten* after a week or so if your eating plan is working you. For me, I cannot eat rice, and brown is just as bad. I just don't eat grains or legumes, they make me sick and I love not being sick more than I miss bread et al. If you still feel crappy, imo, you could try removing the rice temporarily and see if it makes a difference before you just decide that grain-free doesn't work.

Akimajuktuq

which are good carbs/calories and which are bad carbs/calories? Aside from the obvious- veggies are good, chocolate pudding is bad.

I have been feeling GREAT with my reduced caloric intake... now i'm just wondering... how can i improve on this?

There is no such thing as good food and bad food. Chocolate pudding is not bad unless it's the only food you eat. But a small serving of it after dinner is a good thing, if you like chocolate pudding.

Agreed about chocolate pudding. In fact, I make a chocolate pudding that tastes good, is healthy, and fits how I eat.

I don't believe that there is a "bad" natural food, but we have to remember that things like fruit weren't usually available in unlimited qualities year round like they are now... But I think the things that we DO to food, ie factory farming, processing, and adding our own manufactured chemicals are indeed "bad" for our bodies and negatively impact our health. If people want to eat them, great, but pretending that all "food" is equal isn't logical to me.

Akimajuktuq

http://www.simplyshredded.com/the-science-of-nutrition-is-a-carb-a-carb.html

Please read and understand.

All things in moderation.

So what happens when someone is so sick from their Food Pyramid diet that they can no longer "practice all things in moderation"? Look around, obesity isn't affecting just a few people who lack willpower, it's an epidemic and so are lots of other diet-preventable diseases. IMO.