Ketogenic Diet

Flamenquero

If you are interested in learning about a ketogenic diet, I suggest you read "Body Opus" by Dan Duchaine. I would not recommend the diet unless you are already very lean and are just trying to cut up for a bodybuilding or fitness competition.

While ketosis is a natural state for some people like Eskimos, it is not normal for most anthropological cultures.

chrisdavey

If you are interested in learning about a ketogenic diet, I suggest you read "Body Opus" by Dan Duchaine. I would not recommend the diet unless you are already very lean and are just trying to cut up for a bodybuilding or fitness competition.

While ketosis is a natural state for some people like Eskimos, it is not normal for most anthropological cultures.

Just letting you know that Lyle's RFL is based off that with some adaptations. Also, wouldn't recommend it until your very lean.

tnloser1970

I am just going to put in my thoughts. I am no expert. I will say that a ketogenic diet is not for everyone. And, not all ketogenic diets are good. First, let me share my experience and what I have learned from it.

I did my first ketogenic diet (The Atkins Diet) in 2003. I did very well with it. I lost over 100 pounds. But, in my opinion, the Atkins was the wrong way to go. Atkins (at least at the time) allowed you to eat the higher fat foods. So, I was cutting out the carbs. My protein was up, and my fat intake was up. Carbs has never really been the thing I get addicted to. It is the fat foods that I liked because they tasted so good.

Without going into detail, 2004 was a nightmare for me and put it all back on plus more over the past 8 years.

I have tried to diet regularly for this entire year and I got stuck in a plateau that I have been on since April of this year. I would watch my calories, balance out my macro nutrients, exercise, drink my water, everything I was supposed to. But, I kept gaining and losing the same 5 calories. Nothing was working and I got frustrated. So, in October I started putting back on a little bit of weight. I put on about 10 pounds and I knew I had to stop.

After some trial and error, it seems that the carbs is what was preventing me from losing the weight. So, I went to a local bariatric specialist who runs a medically supervised diet program. There are no chemicals, pills, or shots. It is a program that offers a nutritionist, behavioral psychologist, medical doctor, and nurse practitioner. While I was there, I learned that they offer three diet plans. One is a VLCD which means you only eat high protein/low carb/low fat bars and drink 100% whey protein shakes. They have a modified VLCD which means you have the bars or shakes at all meals except one and then you have one serving of a protein and one serving of a low carb vegetable. Then, they have the low calorie plan which is what I had been doing. It is important to note that they do offer these bars and shakes at their office. But, you are not forced to use them. In fact, I get my from Sam's Club. It just has to be medically approved by them.

I will be on the VLCD plan for the 16 weeks, and then I will graduate up to the modified VLCD until I am within about 20 to 30 pounds of my goal weight. Once I am there, I will enter into the stage where we slowly introduce other foods back into the plan and slowly eliminate the protein bars and shakes. I am able to move to the next level anytime I want. But, to be honest, the protein bars are keeping me full and I do like not having to plan meals.

I am actually transferring my care of this back to my family doctor because my insurance will pay for me to see him. But, the important thing is that it is a medically supervised program. This is a must on a ketogenic diet in my opinion. There are some risks associated with following ketogenic diets. Dehydration and constipation can occur if you are not watching yourself. It can affect your kidneys because of the high protein. You also need to take vitamins because you won't be getting all of them from your food.

The dehydration and the constipation can result from too much protein.

As far as the kidney, there is something you can do to help that and take care of the other two as well. One thing I have learned is to drink plenty of water. There are different scenarios out there. Some say to drink have your body weight in ounces of water (meaning a 300 pound person should drink 150 ounces of water). Another method (and the one I use) is to drink your 8- 8 oz. glasses of water and then add an additional 8 oz. glass of water for every 25 pounds you are overweight.

It is also important that you get enough protein and also that you don't get too many. Too little protein and you start to lose lean muscle mass. Too much protein and you can experience weight gain, intestinal issues (such as constipation), dehydration, seizures, increased liver enzymes, nutritional deficiencies, risk of heart disease, and kidney problems. I personally follow the protein recommendations given to me here on MFP. My protein allowance is 99 and I am doing about 100 a day.

The bottom line is that the ketogenic diets are not for everyone. The one I am on is definitely not for everyone. It is for people who have a lot of weight to lose and has the dedication to stick to something like it. You never want to enter into one without the constant supervision of a physician. I will be starting out seeing him once a month and if things are working out okay, it will be moved out to every two months then every three months. When I did Atkins, I didn't do it with a physician monitoring me.

tnloser1970

I should also add that is is important to take vitamins as well

judychicken

I love this diet plus I get seizures and I think it has help with it plus my meds.I feel great on the low carb too.

TheVimFuego

I should also add that is is important to take vitamins as well

You make good points ... it is very easy to run into issues with dry eyes/mouth, constipation, vitamin deficiency, lack of sleep, muscle cramps, etc when low-carbing.

Even the trendy Paleos (who tend to be carb-averse having read The Primal Blueprint and whatnot) can run into trouble, the above side-effects are not uncommon.

Not to say low carbing can't be a good thing (it certainly reset my system) but long term effects have to be considered and you have to listen to your body if it just isn't for you.

Cyclical low-carbing seems to be the way to go for me (low during the week, high at weekends), and I try to time the carbs along with some exercise, etc. Nothing wrong with insulin if you want to get some nutrients stored away in something that isn't a fat cell

I think there is merit in keeping the body guessing both from a food quantity and variety point of view.

I will say lowering the carbs was the only way I was going to eat less without the nagging hunger and feelings of deprivation. I do think it served a purpose and has allowed me to return to a more balanced plan (with a decent deficit) without the attendant low blood-sugar-induced hunger.

And I tend to pick better quality carbs/protein, generally, as a result.

Right, that's my weekly take/rant on carbs, I'll book another in for next weekend.

In the meantime I have a Fat Head "Wheat Is Murder" t-shirt for sale

SadKitty27

I have been doing a low carb high protein / fat diet since I've started MFP.

Personally, I absolutely loved all things chocolate, and bread. I've tried many other diets and would fall off the wagon in a week, because simply restricting my calories made me feel hungry, cranky, and tired all the time.

I've even tried weight watchers, and I HATED the point system. I am not the type of person who wants to micro manage all that much.

For me, the low carb / high protein / high fat diet works. I'm not tired, or hungry, nor do I have an overwhelming urge to break my diet or to eat pasta, or bread (which was my biggest downfall.)

Also, managing my diet is quite simple. If it's overly processed, starchy (potatoes / carrots/corn, etc...) has sugar added to it, is pasta or bread then I cannot have it.

If it's a leafy green, type of healthy oil, or unprocessed meat then down the hatch it goes lol.


Also, I've seen some studies online about how they that keto diets can help control diabetes, those with epilepsy, and there was one (I think it might have been a German study) that said that there was evidence of the keto diet helping fight cancer. I really wish I could find the link.

omidiano

Keto diet is very healthy and u shouldnt be doing it IMO it all depends on ur calories if u dont take refeeds ur metabolism slow down the best lifestyle is INTERMITTENT FASTING!

shabbychick81

i have to eat a ketogentic diet, i have pcos, and if i don eat low carb, i try to stay in the 50 range, i will gain weight really fast eating the same cals not gauging carbs. i have done every diet out there, clean eating and watching my carbs is what works for me. i also can't have dairy, it makes me very sick and causes my fibro to act up so i hurt all over. so i think people who's bodies do not function properly, may do well on a keto diet. i am under my docs supervision, and he is very happy with my results. no more meds for this girl!

fitnessrayray21

Eating clean has done the same to me. less additives in the body maybe from eating healthier. Also- on keto, I would assume that it's because you absorb nutrients better, so your body soaks up the alcohol like it's nobody's business hahaha. Who knowsss.

chrisdavey

Eating clean has done the same to me. less additives in the body maybe from eating healthier. Also- on keto, I would assume that it's because you absorb nutrients better, so your body soaks up the alcohol like it's nobody's business hahaha. Who knowsss.

littleknownblogger

People who think ketosis is dangerous are confusing it with ketoACIDosis. The first is the way your body is actually meant to be fueled; the second is a systemic breakdown associated with insulin disorder.

peachcats

Fad diet, the benefits are that when you don't consume carbs it becomes very hard to eat a large amount of calories.
You'll see no extra benefit from normal calorie counting unless you have a medical condition.

elsdonward

You may find that reducing carbs feels right for you at first. But the body definitely needs carbs because we are designed to eat them. If you are depriving your body, then you are running on an imbalance. Ketogenic diets force the body to react in a different way, technically you are making yourself ill to lose weight. In the longer term your health will deteriorate due to the excessive fat and protein intake. This is a well known fact. It does not cure but promotes damage to the cardiovascular system. Look it up if in doubt and do not take my word for it because I am not qualified to give advice.

I have been on this kind of diet, and also the ill conceived paleo diet - but in the end it is a mix of complex carbs, starches and veggies and lean proteins coupled with exercise which stimulates fat burning whilst restoring bodily power and making you feel well.

I have seen too many fat people suddenly become thinner but yellow in the face - a sure sign of Ketogenics at work.

So eat regularly, make really good choices no gravies, oils, processed junk, no sweeteners, sugar water (fruit juice) plenty of water, limit meats and dairy, take exercise and you cannot fail not only trim but more importantly healthily trim. That is what I have found out through trial, error and lots of research - hope it helps

thisaaronm

People who think ketosis is dangerous are confusing it with ketoACIDosis. The first is the way your body is actually meant to be fueled; the second is a systemic breakdown associated with insulin disorder.

^THIS

My mind is blown away by how many people confuse ketosis and ketoacidosis. What that tells me though is that people aren't doing research and are just regurgitating hearsay.

neanderthin

Worrying about how much fat is burned for energy is a mute point....calorie deficit is what counts.

thisaaronm

I've been on a ketogenic diet for a year, under supervision from my doctor, and I've been perfectly fine. Sure, my LDL and TC went up slightly, but my HDL is past normal into GREAT (if such a scale existed), and my trigs are less than half of what they were before. Plus, as we all know, LDL is not usually measured, but calculated, but that since there are two types of LDL - one being the actual bad LDL, and the other being the LDL that increases during VLCD being good - they get calculated together.

Also, we know that LDL and TC are poor indicators of heart disease and that your trig to HDL ratio is a much better indicator. In fact, here's an article from UCLA:

http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/majority-of-hospitalized-heart-75668.aspx

Basically it says that 75% of the heart attack patients they saw were not at risk by current guidelines.

Also, those who say that your body NEEDS carbs should read this:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21489321

"More interesting, however, is the fact that ketones can provide as much as 70% of the brain's energy needs, more efficiently than glucose."

I think the biggest thing people need to learn is that your entire body will run perfectly fine on ketones. The brain also doesn't need carbs - it needs glucose. There is a distinction there. Again, going back to the 70% ketone utilization of the brain, the other 30% needs to be glucose, but if you restrict your carb intake to 0, then your body will produce the glucose it needs via gluconeogenesis.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluconeogenesis

"Gluconeogenesis (abbreviated GNG) is a metabolic pathway that results in the generation of glucose from non-carbohydrate carbon substrates such as pyruvate, lactate, glycerol, glucogenic amino acids, and odd-chain fatty acids. It is one of the two main mechanisms humans and many other animals use to keep blood glucose levels from dropping too low (hypoglycemia). The other means of maintaining blood glucose levels is through the degradation of glycogen (glycogenolysis)."

Keto is also not just about losing weight. There are neuroprotective benefits associated with following low carb as well.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2367001/

In the end, there will always be those who close their mind to reason and scientific advancement and understanding. But before anyone spreads hearsay, please do some research first. Even if you disagree with the results and want to choose a different option for yourself, misleading others by being misinformed isn't helpful.

And please learn the difference between ketosis and ketoacidosis.

thisaaronm

Worrying about how much fat is burned for energy is a mute point....calorie deficit is what counts.

This depends on what your goal is. If it is strictly to lose weight, then you are correct, and it is much easier to obtain a calorie deficit on a ketogenic/VLCD than not, as ketones suppress ghrelin.

neanderthin

Worrying about how much fat is burned for energy is a mute point....calorie deficit is what counts.

This depends on what your goal is. If it is strictly to lose weight, then you are correct, and it is much easier to obtain a calorie deficit on a ketogenic/VLCD than not, as ketones suppress ghrelin.

If your saying being in ketosis preserves lean mass more efficiently when in a deficit, I would need to see a consensus in the studies, actually from my research it appears more difficult. Also I consume a lower carb diet and not a ketogenic one and it very efficiently has reduced my appetite.......if it works for you I don't see a problem, otherwise I find it overly restrictive and in that regard probably not the best course of action for the general population trying to lose weight.

RubyRunner14

Keto is awesome, it personally works well for me. Soft hunger pangs when I have them (not the headachey, dizzying, stabbing pain when eating carbs), can go 6-8 hrs no problem, no need for a huge bag of food to transport for lunch... a tiny container for lunch/dinner and I'm set for 16+ hours. Delicious diet, too, I love my meat.

chrisdavey

Worrying about how much fat is burned for energy is a mute point....calorie deficit is what counts.

This depends on what your goal is. If it is strictly to lose weight, then you are correct, and it is much easier to obtain a calorie deficit on a ketogenic/VLCD than not, as ketones suppress ghrelin.

Unless of course, P&F doesn't fill you up.

JoJo__Fit

I'm on my 4th week and I love it, I function really well in and out of the gym, I haven't lost any strength I still can hit my personal best at the gym with no problem, and I get to refeed for 24-32 hours on the weekends. It really depends on the individual. Good Luck

thisaaronm

Worrying about how much fat is burned for energy is a mute point....calorie deficit is what counts.

This depends on what your goal is. If it is strictly to lose weight, then you are correct, and it is much easier to obtain a calorie deficit on a ketogenic/VLCD than not, as ketones suppress ghrelin.

Unless of course, P&F doesn't fill you up.

I guess that depends on what you're definition of "fill up" is. I can eat 3 eggs, 1/4 cup of shredded cheese on top, and 3 slices of bacon (and of course coffee too) at 6:45 am and not start to feel hungry for a snack (not a full blown meal) until maybe 2 pm. At that point I may have 1 or 2 pieces of string cheese and I'm set til dinner at 5 or 6.

After my breakfast am I "filled up"? Not in my opinion. I could eat more, but I'm not hungry. THAT *in my opinion* is more important.