Which one is it...calories net or total calories from food
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You should be eating enough to not need to eat your exercise calories. If you're feeling weak and faint from lack of food then you need to up your food intake and not by exercising to earn it. Most people on here are no where near the fitness level that requires refueling for exercise and unless you're using a HRM and deducting your BMR from that then you're probably over estimating your exercise to start with.
Exercise is to gain fitness, diet is to lose or maintain weight. They really don't need to have anything to do with each other except making sure you have good nutrition for both. Way too many people have their budgets set to 1200 calories and then log exercise for house cleaning, slow waddle with the dog or shopping in order to "earn" the food they need to survive.0 -
I was wondering the same thing. I workout 5 days a week with a trainer. I log my calories burned by what my HRM says. If I am told to ear 1200 calories a day, should I add those back into my allowed calories for the day? This is new to me and I am working hard on exercise and food choices, so that I can anticipate success.
Thoughts?0 -
I always eat them back now. I had stopped losing weight for weeks and couldn't figure out why. I did some research, upped my calorie goal to 1450 and now I NET my goal. I use a HRM to track accurately. Since then I've readjusted my numbers and my daily goal is 1428, but I still track the same way.
If I burn 300 extra cals with exercise, then I eat and extra 300 cals for the day. I've also found that it motivates me to get out there and get my workout done....That means I get dessert!!
THIS!!!!
For the win.0 -
It also depends on your activity setting.
Set to sedentary - log everything and eat back calories
Set to lightly active- log exercising 3-4 days a week, but not the other days, eat back to calories on the logged days
If you exercise 5-6 days a week, set it to highly active and don't log exercise.0 -
MFP always says you burned waaaaay more than you actually burned. I don't log my exercise because I don't plan on eating them back. The only time I'll log exercise is on special occasions like thanksgiving when I might eat a little more. Even then, I only eat half of them back.
I think it must be the opposite for me. According to MFP, I should only be losing 1/3 of a pound each week, yet I am actually losing over two pounds a week.0 -
Just do what works for you... the forums are opinions on everyone else's journey, what works for one person may not work for another.
No, actually it's simple math. SIMPLE math. How do you people balance your checkbooks?
I wonder that too sometimes. :ohwell:0 -
I'm just curious how many of you consider calories net to be your total calories for day or just look at your total calories from food intake....I've never looked at my net because if I did I would probably eat back my exercise cals if that makes sense? Please share your thoughts on this...
MFP is designed with the intent that you eat back your exercise calories. So I always go by my net.0 -
I don't balance my cheque book, I don't have one. I use debit accounts, money goes in money goes out with a statement at the end of each month.
This explains it.
Whatever works. I would be broke all the time if I didn't budget my money. It must be nice to have so much money that you don't have to keep track of it.
Best wishes on your fitness goals. :flowerforyou:0 -
The ideal way to use MFP is to put in your activity level NOT INCLUDING EXERCISE and eat your exercise calories back because MFP already builds in a deficit for you. Don't eat them back, and you're creating a larger deficit. Sometimes that's okay, but sometimes that means you'll net too low.
If you use MFP a different way, such as manually adjusting your calorie goal to a 15% cut from TDEE, that's fine, and the exercise calorie issue is obviously going to be different if you are using MFP a different way.0 -
Just do what works for you... the forums are opinions on everyone else's journey, what works for one person may not work for another.
No, actually it's simple math. SIMPLE math. How do you people balance your checkbooks?
'us people' don't... and do just fine, thanks. I've seen many people get confused by this simple math and there's no need for it. Enjoy your math, I'll enjoy what works for me.
don't what? balance your checkbook? believe it math? what works for you? eating random calories every day?
I don't balance my cheque book, I don't have one. I use debit accounts, money goes in money goes out with a statement at the end of each month. I follow MFP's allowances for me, it's been working for me.
MFP's allowances for you have exercise factored out of the equation. So it happens to be "working" (whatever working means to you) despite the fact that your accounting is off. This would bother me greatly. But luckily, I am not you.
It would be like you finally checked the statement of your debit account, and the final balance was thousands of dollars off.0 -
MFP always says you burned waaaaay more than you actually burned. I don't log my exercise because I don't plan on eating them back. The only time I'll log exercise is on special occasions like thanksgiving when I might eat a little more. Even then, I only eat half of them back.
I think it must be the opposite for me. According to MFP, I should only be losing 1/3 of a pound each week, yet I am actually losing over two pounds a week.
This is why everyone has to fiddle around with their settings to find what works best for them. Try one way, if it doesn't work then try a different way.0 -
I always just go by my net calories. I have learned over time that if I NET around 1500-1600, I will lose weight. If I NET around 1800 I will maintain. So I eat back some of my exercise calories in order to stay consistent with that NET goal.0
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.The MFP calories for activities isn't the most accurate thing. If you are using a heart rate monitor that tracks calories, then you can use that...not 100% accurate, but close enough. Please note, you MUST subtract your daily-do-nothing calories from your exercise calories. For example, if your heart rate monitor says you burned 500 calories in 2 hours of exercise, and you are on a 1500 calorie/day plan, then you need to subtract (1500 cal divided by 24 hours divided by 60 minutes) multiplied by minutes exercises, then subtract that from your exercise calories. So, for the example, you would subtract 125 calories, meaning you have 375 exercise calories to work with.
bump for this but could you dumb it down even more so a clown could do it too? edited to add: oops I figured it out, too much helium I guess0 -
MFP always says you burned waaaaay more than you actually burned. I don't log my exercise because I don't plan on eating them back. The only time I'll log exercise is on special occasions like thanksgiving when I might eat a little more. Even then, I only eat half of them back.
I think it must be the opposite for me. According to MFP, I should only be losing 1/3 of a pound each week, yet I am actually losing over two pounds a week.
This is why everyone has to fiddle around with their settings to find what works best for them. Try one way, if it doesn't work then try a different way.
Yes, and I am still fiddling. I just increased my calories up to 1900.
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If you want to lose weight within a reasonable amount of time, then you bank the deficit, you do not eat it back.0
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If you are logging your exercise then you will see that MFP increases your total calorie allotment. If you are doing that you should be watching your net calories. You don't have to eat them all back. The goal is always to come in under your calorie allotment. I don't view my exercise calories any differently than my given calories. They're there if I'm hungry, but if I don't eat them that's not a bad thing. The only place total matters is in your minimum. You have to eat a minimum of 1200 with or without exercise or MFP gives you the little health risk warning. I'm averaging 2lb a week weight loss, so it works for me.
All of this is assuming you let MFP adjust the calories for you and you log everything. If you do TDEE and set your own calorie goals then it depends on what you used to calculate your goals.0 -
Thanks guys interesting discussion. I just got the MFP app and was wondering what to do with the exercise calories. I now log my exercise under exercise notes so it doesn't affect my net calories for the day. Thoughts?0
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I agree with this. When I started my journey back in Jan. 2008 I didn't ever eat back my exercise calories. I never got overly hungry, never hit one plateau, and I lost 1-2# weekly, some weeks more. I am a walker and walked hard 6-7 days a week. Everyone has to find what works for them. Best wishes to you :-)I think the answer depends on the individual. If you are eating your exercise calories and not seeing the weight loss you are hoping for I'd say to not eat them back. If you are not eating them and you are getting the results you want I'd stick with it. And of course if you are finding yourself weak and hungry all day and aren't eating them back I'd say to eat all or some of them back based on the results you are seeing.
Someone already mentioned it and I agree completely that MFP waaaay over estimates calories burned with almost all activities. You have to be realistic and adjust them based on what you know or else you will be lying to yourself and the results you are working for will not be there.
Good luck to you.0 -
I'm in the "what works for you" crowd. Personally, I leave my settings at "sedentary" (because I'm an accountant and spend long hours sitting on my *kitten*) and only log my "real" exercise...as in, I don't log emptying the dishwasher, vacuuming, doing yard work, etc...I assume that stuff like that is more or less built into my sedentary setting. I will generally eat back 75%-90% of my exercise calories back and I've remained on my target pace of about 1 Lb per week lost.
Just keep in mind that if you're not eating those exercise calories back, you may lose weight too quickly and feel downright crummy. You can also end up doing more harm than good as your body goes into starvation mode and slows your metabolism.0 -
Thanks guys interesting discussion. I just got the MFP app and was wondering what to do with the exercise calories. I now log my exercise under exercise notes so it doesn't affect my net calories for the day. Thoughts?
Your halfway to enlightenment. Make sure you manually set your calorie target to your TDEE minus 500 (or so), and you will be all the way there.0 -
sorry lol what is TDEE? I'll look into this 0
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I never have and never will eat my excercise calories back. I would have NEVER lost 100 lbs. if I did.
I would only consider eating some of them back if I were to get into a very serious training routine (P90X or Insanity type of program). Otherwise, the general cardio routine, and light weight training would never allow me to lose weight if I ate it back.0 -
Personally I try not to eat back my exercise calories BUT I have a cheat day a week I don't log. So eventually I eat them back. I just save them up for my cheat day. It's really however you want to do it, but I suggest you eat your calories back. If your body burned it then it means you need to replace at least half of what you burned! Hope that helps!!!0
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I never have and never will eat my excercise calories back. I would have NEVER lost 100 lbs. if I did.
I would only consider eating some of them back if I were to get into a very serious training routine (P90X or Insanity type of program). Otherwise, the general cardio routine, and light weight training would never allow me to lose weight if I ate it back.
So you took a TDEE-based approach? Or are you just another wizard?
I'm trying to parse this and make sense of what you think you're saying...
A moderate calorie deficit is not enough for you to lose weight? You require a moderate calorie deficit that is increased arbitrarily by the amount of exercise you perform day to day? But if you were to do a "very serious routine", you would consider making your arbitrary calorie deficit smaller by a random amount (i.e., "some calories").
Cool story.
This thread hurts my head and I'm sorry that I ever entered it.0 -
P.S. unicorns. Unicorns are the secret. Doesn't matter if count calories or not; just whether you believe in unicorns. Unicorns are what worked for me. Everybody's different.0
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Personally I try not to eat back my exercise calories BUT I have a cheat day a week I don't log. So eventually I eat them back. I just save them up for my cheat day. It's really however you want to do it, but I suggest you eat your calories back. If your body burned it then it means you need to replace at least half of what you burned! Hope that helps!!!
Hey bymyslf892,
How do you find the cheat day works for you? are you still losing weight?0 -
The deficit you can run is based on how well your body can mobilize fat for a fuel source. The less fat you have the less mobile it becomes and the less of a deficit you can maintain.
The basic math is as follows:
Free Fat Mass (FFM) = total fat mass (TFM) - essential fat mass (EFM)
TFM = Body Weight * Fat%
EFM = (Lean Body Mass [LBM])*0.03 for men or (Lean Body Mass)*0.12 for women
LBM = Body Weight - TFM
Maximum Daily Fat Mobilization = 2.5grams*FFM
Maximum Daily Deficit (MDD) = 2.5grams*FFM*9calories/gram
This is the largest deficit that you can maintain per day and theoretically have all of the deficit be supplied by fat oxidation.
So, let's say you're a 30 year old woman, 5'5'' tall and 180 lbs with 40% body fat. Your total daily energy expenditure is about 2200 calories (lightly active).
BW = 180 lbs
LBM = 180 - 180*.4 = 108 lbs
TFM = 180*.4 = 72 lbs
EFM = 108*.12 = 13 lbs
FFM = 59 lbs
MDD = 59 lbs * 2.5g/lb * 9 cal/g = 1327 calories per day
Now let's say that you eat 1200 calories per day and do no additional exercise. This gives you a 1000 cal/day deficit which is less than your MDD, so you're fine for now. Most of your weight loss will be from fat stores since your body can effectively mobilize enough fat per day to fuel your energy needs. However, if you burn 500 calories per day from exercise, your TDEE increases to 2700 calories and now if you only eat 1200 calories you have a deficit of 1500 calories per day. Your body cannot mobilize this much fat per day, so the energy has to come from somewhere else. The first thing that happens is your body uses up its glycogen supplies (we have about 2400 calories of glycogen in our muscles and liver). It will take about 2 weeks at this kind of deficit for your body to exhaust all of its glycogen stores. During this period you'll feel fine though you may find your self tiring more quickly during workouts. Eventually, all the glycogen will be gone and your body won't be able to make any more. This is when things go downhill. Now to properly run itself, the body has to start relying on some tricks to get by. This is effectively where the dreaded "starvation mode" begins, though in the first stages its not all that terrible. The first thing your body does is it effectively turns down the thermostat (metabolism) to save energy. This is a hormonal process that results in a decrease to the resting metabolic rate. Concurrently, it increases its use of triglycerides and muscle protein for energy, resulting in muscle catabolism and a further decrease in BMR. If this goes on long enough, your body will start turning off "non-essential" functions such as reproductive functions, skin, nail and tooth enamel production, decreasing digestive function and impaired cognition. It takes quite a while for this kind of stuff to happen and generally, the first measures employed by the body are enough to stave off starvation.
Now most of this is pretty extreme and won't happen to the average person (plus it takes a long time and willful disregard of your body's distress signals), but it is one of the things that contributes to plateaus and diet failure followed by regaining the lost weight plus some. A month at too high of a deficit can lead to a relatively significant decrease in metabolic function which can be fairly hard to undo.0 -
My calories eaten are my calories eaten, my net calories are my net calories. At the end of the day the net calories are more telling.0
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My calories eaten are my calories eaten, my net calories are my net calories. At the end of the day the net calories are more telling.
It's almost as if you're trying to deny that unicorns have anything to do with it. Weird.0 -
The deficit you can run is based on how well your body can mobilize fat for a fuel source. The less fat you have the less mobile it becomes and the less of a deficit you can maintain.
The basic math is as follows:
Free Fat Mass (FFM) = total fat mass (TFM) - essential fat mass (EFM)
TFM = Body Weight * Fat%
EFM = (Lean Body Mass [LBM])*0.03 for men or (Lean Body Mass)*0.12 for women
LBM = Body Weight - TFM
Maximum Daily Fat Mobilization = 2.5grams*FFM
Maximum Daily Deficit (MDD) = 2.5grams*FFM*9calories/gram
This is the largest deficit that you can maintain per day and theoretically have all of the deficit be supplied by fat oxidation.
So, let's say you're a 30 year old woman, 5'5'' tall and 180 lbs with 40% body fat. Your total daily energy expenditure is about 2200 calories (lightly active).
BW = 180 lbs
LBM = 180 - 180*.4 = 108 lbs
TFM = 180*.4 = 72 lbs
EFM = 108*.12 = 13 lbs
FFM = 59 lbs
MDD = 59 lbs * 2.5g/lb * 9 cal/g = 1327 calories per day
Now let's say that you eat 1200 calories per day and do no additional exercise. This gives you a 1000 cal/day deficit which is less than your MDD, so you're fine for now. Most of your weight loss will be from fat stores since your body can effectively mobilize enough fat per day to fuel your energy needs. However, if you burn 500 calories per day from exercise, your TDEE increases to 2700 calories and now if you only eat 1200 calories you have a deficit of 1500 calories per day. Your body cannot mobilize this much fat per day, so the energy has to come from somewhere else. The first thing that happens is your body uses up its glycogen supplies (we have about 2400 calories of glycogen in our muscles and liver). It will take about 2 weeks at this kind of deficit for your body to exhaust all of its glycogen stores. During this period you'll feel fine though you may find your self tiring more quickly during workouts. Eventually, all the glycogen will be gone and your body won't be able to make any more. This is when things go downhill. Now to properly run itself, the body has to start relying on some tricks to get by. This is effectively where the dreaded "starvation mode" begins, though in the first stages its not all that terrible. The first thing your body does is it effectively turns down the thermostat (metabolism) to save energy. This is a hormonal process that results in a decrease to the resting metabolic rate. Concurrently, it increases its use of triglycerides and muscle protein for energy, resulting in muscle catabolism and a further decrease in BMR. If this goes on long enough, your body will start turning off "non-essential" functions such as reproductive functions, skin, nail and tooth enamel production, decreasing digestive function and impaired cognition. It takes quite a while for this kind of stuff to happen and generally, the first measures employed by the body are enough to stave off starvation.
Now most of this is pretty extreme and won't happen to the average person (plus it takes a long time and willful disregard of your body's distress signals), but it is one of the things that contributes to plateaus and diet failure followed by regaining the lost weight plus some. A month at too high of a deficit can lead to a relatively significant decrease in metabolic function which can be fairly hard to undo.
Two points to above scenario.
Studies have found that people taking a 1000 cal deficit without any resistance exercise do lose muscle mass.
Muscle glucose stores cannot be put into the blood stream for general availability for rest of the body. Only your liver stores are, 400-450 cal's worth.
Your body is going to use the fat and carbs about the same ratio. What the study said for the above formula is that fat metabolism shuts way down or off and glucose is all that's left, once the liver is low and blood sugar must be raised, it's time for muscle breakdown.
Easier than doing the math.
http://www.weightrainer.net/losscalc.html0
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