What's "heavy" in lifting?
xidia
Posts: 606 Member
Not in terms of weights, but in terms of effort, reps and how you feel at the end of a set?
For instance, my current PT-written programme has me doing 2 sets of 12-15 reps on most exercises, and by the end of the first set I'm thinking "hmm, ok, that's about a 3 on an effort scale of one to 10" and by the end of the second set I've hit 6-7 on most exercises, with the free-weight chest press getting to an 8-9 effort on the last 3 reps.
I'm looking to build muscle, and I'm not sure whether this will do it?
For instance, my current PT-written programme has me doing 2 sets of 12-15 reps on most exercises, and by the end of the first set I'm thinking "hmm, ok, that's about a 3 on an effort scale of one to 10" and by the end of the second set I've hit 6-7 on most exercises, with the free-weight chest press getting to an 8-9 effort on the last 3 reps.
I'm looking to build muscle, and I'm not sure whether this will do it?
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Replies
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Your PT didn't teach you anything about weight selection or progression?0
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no..........it won't. Sounds like it's to light for you.0
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nevermind0
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You build muscle while being in caloric surplus. That being said, those high rep routines won't do much when gaining or leaning out.0
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Your PT didn't teach you anything about weight selection or progression?
Nope. He will review the programme every 3 weeks or so, but I don't want to waste three weeks achieveing nothing because the weights are too light. I'm quite happy to unilaterally change them and tell him what I've done!
What should I be feeling in effort terms after set 1 and set 2?0 -
Heavy is what you can eek out with decent form doing only 5 reps and needing a rest in between sets.
Or you can go slightly less heavy and do 8-12 reps but that's not as beneficial for building strength. Lower reps, heavier weights!
When did you start lifting? Maybe your trainer is just trying to get a sense for what you are capable of and watching your form before piling on the weight - so you don't hurt yourself, ya know?0 -
Your PT didn't teach you anything about weight selection or progression?
Nope. He will review the programme every 3 weeks or so, but I don't want to waste three weeks achieveing nothing because the weights are too light. I'm quite happy to unilaterally change them and tell him what I've done!
What should I be feeling in effort terms after set 1 and set 2?
Tell him it's way too light and you don't feel like you're even working out...
You should struggle to do your last rep, almost to the point where you just can't do it. (and 12 reps is too many, try anywhere from 5-8 with the heaviest weight you can manage with proper form for those 5-8 reps)
And stick to compound barbell movements, not single isolation exercises.
Do barbell squats, bench press, deadlifts, overhead press, pendlay rows...0 -
Thank you Robin & Dizzle, that helps a lot. I'll experiment next time to find out what heavy is at this point, and mention it to him if I see him before the next PT session.0
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You build muscle while being in caloric surplus. That being said, those high rep routines won't do much when gaining or leaning out.
Yeah - I'm deliberately eating more on workout days compared to non-workout (and timing protein intake around workouts) to see if that's enough to get me the "beginner's benefit" of gaining muscle mass while losing fat. If it doesn't work over a month or so, I'll change tack.0 -
muscle growth = calorie surplus + tearing the muscle fibers by placing your muscles under stress (resistance) that it cant handle at its size . u need to push hard at perfect form! add fkn weight and tell your trainer u not a pansy!
i just saw u a female, doesnt change anything.. DO WHAT I JUST SAID :P0 -
at the end of each set my trainer asks how it felt. if I tell him warily 'it's okay' he puts the weight up. Your trainer should be doing the same.0
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heavy is going to change from month to month. but if you have to ask, you aren't lifting heavy0
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Any rep range from 8-12 reps and 1-2 sets is a legit recommendation for a beginner from a qualified professional. You should however up the weights so that you are challenged for those ranges though. What rest period have they given you between sets?0
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muscle growth = calorie surplus + tearing the muscle fibers by placing your muscles under stress (resistance) that it cant handle at its size . u need to push hard at perfect form! add fkn weight and tell your trainer u not a pansy!
i just saw u a female, doesnt change anything.. DO WHAT I JUST SAID :P
- or just suggest to him that you feel the weights are not heavy enough and could you have some more please.0 -
NO u dont need to take this approach! really if u go to gym to play around and act civilized then u shouldnt be theremuscle growth = calorie surplus + tearing the muscle fibers by placing your muscles under stress (resistance) that it cant handle at its size . u need to push hard at perfect form! add fkn weight and tell your trainer u not a pansy!
i just saw u a female, doesnt change anything.. DO WHAT I JUST SAID :P
- or just suggest to him that you feel the weights are not heavy enough and could you have some more please.0 -
For me, lifting properly means generally 8 reps, and having it heavy enough that the last rep is a struggle to finish with good form.
As soon as I can finish a set without a struggle I up my weight0 -
Same. I knock out 8 to 10 reps 3 sets. Your last rep should make you struggle but not break form. If you aren't struggling by the time you are almost finished then its time to go up in weight.
You want to keep proper form but you also dont want to be wasting your time messing with too light of weights. If you have to question if its too light then thats usually when you go up.
Best of Luck0 -
Not in terms of weights, but in terms of effort, reps and how you feel at the end of a set?
For instance, my current PT-written programme has me doing 2 sets of 12-15 reps on most exercises, and by the end of the first set I'm thinking "hmm, ok, that's about a 3 on an effort scale of one to 10" and by the end of the second set I've hit 6-7 on most exercises, with the free-weight chest press getting to an 8-9 effort on the last 3 reps.
I'm looking to build muscle, and I'm not sure whether this will do it?
Well first make sure you have the form down. Your PT may be having you start lighter to make sure you get used to the movement before you start lifting heavy and tear things you really don't want to. And by make sure I don't mean "oh yeah my forms good", ask your trainer. Everybody at the gym "thinks" their form is good including the idiots that look like something is about to snap off their body.
Once that's good, I'd add a 3rd set on them all and drop the reps to 8 or less. First set should be a warm up, so a 3 on the effort scale is fine. Second set should be working, so a 5-6 is good. And the last set should be hard, a 9 or a failure.
Keep a log and write down how much weight, how many reps, and how much effort. It the effort dips below a 8.5 then add weight the next week, which should get you back up to a 9.5 or failure.0 -
Not in terms of weights, but in terms of effort, reps and how you feel at the end of a set?
For instance, my current PT-written programme has me doing 2 sets of 12-15 reps on most exercises, and by the end of the first set I'm thinking "hmm, ok, that's about a 3 on an effort scale of one to 10" and by the end of the second set I've hit 6-7 on most exercises, with the free-weight chest press getting to an 8-9 effort on the last 3 reps.
I'm looking to build muscle, and I'm not sure whether this will do it?
Well first make sure you have the form down. Your PT may be having you start lighter to make sure you get used to the movement before you start lifting heavy and tear things you really don't want to. And by make sure I don't mean "oh yeah my forms good", ask your trainer. Everybody at the gym "thinks" their form is good including the idiots that look like something is about to snap off their body.
Once that's good, I'd add a 3rd set on them all and drop the reps to 8 or less. First set should be a warm up, so a 3 on the effort scale is fine. Second set should be working, so a 5-6 is good. And the last set should be hard, a 9 or a failure.
Keep a log and write down how much weight, how many reps, and how much effort. It the effort dips below a 8.5 then add weight the next week, which should get you back up to a 9.5 or failure.
Good point about form. I can ask again next time, but I got very few corrections in the first place (and those I do remember).
It sounds like the chest presses are about right in terms of how it feels, and flipping that to 3 sets of 8 would almost certainly put me in the range you describe for each set. Now I know roughly what feeling I'm aiming for I can replicate that with the others. And then I will feel like chewed string afterwards :happy:
Rest period is 30s, and currently I'm not needing it for anything but the chest presses.0 -
Rest period is 30s, and currently I'm not needing it for anything but the chest presses.
I'd say you definitely aren't at the "heavy" part yet, then.
If you're doing a challenging set of 8-15, then it's going to take much more than 30s before you're ready for the next one.
Don't get caught up in heavy yet, hopefully your PT knows what he's doing and is just reinforcing good form before he moves you up in weight. Talk to him/her about it, that's why you're paying them.0 -
Rest period is 30s, and currently I'm not needing it for anything but the chest presses.
I'd say you definitely aren't at the "heavy" part yet, then.
If you're doing a challenging set of 8-15, then it's going to take much more than 30s before you're ready for the next one.
Don't get caught up in heavy yet, hopefully your PT knows what he's doing and is just reinforcing good form before he moves you up in weight. Talk to him/her about it, that's why you're paying them.
Exactly, although 30s may be enough when dealing with reps as high as 15 because the weight will be so light in order to allow you to complete that many.
I think it's ok for you to creep up some of the weights in the other exercises to more closely match your bench press efforts, but not at the expense of form.
However if you're going to follow a completely different plan from an internet forum, it's not really fair that you're parting with your money, or the trainer with their time and reputation.0 -
Every time my set starts to seem as if I can finish it without a struggle, the weights go up. Form is importent as well though and, often, if the form is not right, the excercise will seem/be much easier because you are doing it wrong. I am not saying that is the issue, I have been working hard on form and still do! The reps vary but I do have to rest in between and I am drenched in sweat and am sore the next day, even more sore the second day after. Yesterday was leg day and I pushed it to the point that I threw up although that does NOT happen often. LOL I currently lift three days a week but think I need to go up to six. Anyway, I love reading all these posts! For me, heavy is whatever makes me reach failure and goes up each month. : )0
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Don't get caught up in heavy yet, hopefully your PT knows what he's doing and is just reinforcing good form before he moves you up in weight. Talk to him/her about it, that's why you're paying them.
It comes free with the gym membership. He's definitely sloppy, since he gave my fiance and I an identical programme (except my fiance gets a lat pull-down on a weight machine and I don't) and the weights are wrong for both of us. I'm looking at it more as a set of guidelines / direction, to be amended once I know enough to have an intelligent conversation with him!0 -
NO u dont need to take this approach! really if u go to gym to play around and act civilized then u shouldnt be theremuscle growth = calorie surplus + tearing the muscle fibers by placing your muscles under stress (resistance) that it cant handle at its size . u need to push hard at perfect form! add fkn weight and tell your trainer u not a pansy!
i just saw u a female, doesnt change anything.. DO WHAT I JUST SAID :P
- or just suggest to him that you feel the weights are not heavy enough and could you have some more please.
So much anger - you can be assertive and get what you need AND be civilized.0 -
Don't get caught up in heavy yet, hopefully your PT knows what he's doing and is just reinforcing good form before he moves you up in weight. Talk to him/her about it, that's why you're paying them.
It comes free with the gym membership. He's definitely sloppy, since he gave my fiance and I an identical programme (except my fiance gets a lat pull-down on a weight machine and I don't) and the weights are wrong for both of us. I'm looking at it more as a set of guidelines / direction, to be amended once I know enough to have an intelligent conversation with him!
Ah right. PT stands for Personal Training. That's not what you're getting, you've just got a free workout plan, and maybe an induction.0 -
ok zen master
NO u dont need to take this approach! really if u go to gym to play around and act civilized then u shouldnt be theremuscle growth = calorie surplus + tearing the muscle fibers by placing your muscles under stress (resistance) that it cant handle at its size . u need to push hard at perfect form! add fkn weight and tell your trainer u not a pansy!
i just saw u a female, doesnt change anything.. DO WHAT I JUST SAID :P
- or just suggest to him that you feel the weights are not heavy enough and could you have some more please.
So much anger - you can be assertive and get what you need AND be civilized.0 -
ok zen master
NO u dont need to take this approach! really if u go to gym to play around and act civilized then u shouldnt be theremuscle growth = calorie surplus + tearing the muscle fibers by placing your muscles under stress (resistance) that it cant handle at its size . u need to push hard at perfect form! add fkn weight and tell your trainer u not a pansy!
i just saw u a female, doesnt change anything.. DO WHAT I JUST SAID :P
- or just suggest to him that you feel the weights are not heavy enough and could you have some more please.
So much anger - you can be assertive and get what you need AND be civilized.
A pleasure. Have a flower: :flowerforyou:0 -
Not in terms of weights, but in terms of effort, reps and how you feel at the end of a set?
The goal is to exhaust your body / muscles. Not to the point where you hurt yourself, but to the point where you need ~1-1.5 days of rest before you train that muscle group again.
You should struggle to do the last rep (but in good form!),
The # of reps depends on your goals.
The extremes are 1 (pure strength) to ~15(size, endurance, form)
If your goal is strength: do 5-8reps
If your goal is size: do 10-12reps0 -
To me, lifting "heavy" would be doing sets between 4-8 reps. Not just throwing up 8 reps with a low weight. The weight should be enough to where you hit failure from the 4th to 8th rep. Failure being you simply cannot do another rep.
Even if you do high reps 10-16 rep sets, they should be until failure. The way I do my sets is if I can do three sets of 12 I move up next time I do that exercise. Then I do that increased weight until I get to 12 reps again, etc, etc.0 -
Don't get caught up in heavy yet, hopefully your PT knows what he's doing and is just reinforcing good form before he moves you up in weight. Talk to him/her about it, that's why you're paying them.
It comes free with the gym membership. He's definitely sloppy, since he gave my fiance and I an identical programme (except my fiance gets a lat pull-down on a weight machine and I don't) and the weights are wrong for both of us. I'm looking at it more as a set of guidelines / direction, to be amended once I know enough to have an intelligent conversation with him!
Ah right. PT stands for Personal Training. That's not what you're getting, you've just got a free workout plan, and maybe an induction.
It's advertised as Prrsonal Training, but I'm not sure it really is!0
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