An interesting article from the Guardian..

Sipah

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/jun/11/why-our-food-is-making-us-fat

Now I know there are a bunch of health gurus here and I was wondering if they agreed with the piece from the Guardian. I have personally noticed that when I diet or eat healthy after a day or two i get these cravings which seem to be satisfied mainly with heavily processed foods in the form sweets, cookies, chips etc.

I will eat healthy and eat fruits, drink fresh juices but it doesn't help the sugar cravings I have. I was wondering if anybody else has experienced this during their weight loss regime.

Dave198lbs

didnt read the article but drinking fresh juices is really just drinking concentrated fruit sugar and drinking concentrated fruit sugar can trigger a craving for more sugar which could be what is happening for you

there is no good reason to drink juice unless you happen to really love it and can do it in small amounts

juice is high sugar and high calories and is stripped of most of the beneficial fiber that comes with eating the actual orange or apple

Qskim

Quick scan of article...absolutely agree. Have read Taubes and am currently reading a comprehensive book on leptin...relatively new discovery (1998) from memory. Not surprised food industry worried. My trainer has been talking about the effects of sugar for years. I lost weight avoiding high sugar, high carb/refined food. When I indulge with them too much I don't lose...simple.

flipertyflip

Yes interesting goes t show we should get our calories as much as possible from unprocessed 'good' quality food. Mind , i don't agree entirely that it's soley resposible for increased weight but it hasn't helped. I quite like this blog 'in defence of calories' i found just recently. http://www.coreconceptswellness.com/blog/the-sensible-middle-part-1-in-defence-of-calories

Dave198lbs

I lost weight avoiding high sugar, high carb/refined food.

I think it is important to understand that people lose weight by eating less calories than they use over time.

It MAY be beneficial for overall health to avoid high sugar, high carb refined food but they are not to blame if you do not lose weight.

Sipah

didnt read the article but drinking fresh juices is really just drinking concentrated fruit sugar and drinking concentrated fruit sugar can trigger a craving for more sugar which could be what is happening for you

there is no good reason to drink juice unless you happen to really love it and can do it in small amounts

juice is high sugar and high calories and is stripped of most of the beneficial fiber that comes with eating the actual orange or apple

Interesting I did not know that. I usually have fresh juice with my breakfast every few days. I like the energy it gives me (I am assuming the juice gives me the energy that is.)

Dave198lbs

didnt read the article but drinking fresh juices is really just drinking concentrated fruit sugar and drinking concentrated fruit sugar can trigger a craving for more sugar which could be what is happening for you

there is no good reason to drink juice unless you happen to really love it and can do it in small amounts

juice is high sugar and high calories and is stripped of most of the beneficial fiber that comes with eating the actual orange or apple

Interesting I did not know that. I usually have fresh juice with my breakfast every few days. I like the energy it gives me (I am assuming the juice gives me the energy that is.)

its the sugar rush

you would be better off with coffee

dcmat

It MAY be beneficial for overall health to avoid high sugar, high carb refined food but they are not to blame if you do not lose weight.

Agree - it all depends what you do with those carbs. If you burn 'em, eat 'em

rml_16

The healthier I eat, the fewer cravings I have.

And if I do have a craving, it goes away quicker.

Also, the less healthy food just doesn't taste as good anymore.

bpotts44

didnt read the article but drinking fresh juices is really just drinking concentrated fruit sugar and drinking concentrated fruit sugar can trigger a craving for more sugar which could be what is happening for you

there is no good reason to drink juice unless you happen to really love it and can do it in small amounts

juice is high sugar and high calories and is stripped of most of the beneficial fiber that comes with eating the actual orange or apple

One of the only "rules" I've followed is no liquid calories. Juice is not helpful. Get your micro nutrients elsewhere.

Interesting I did not know that. I usually have fresh juice with my breakfast every few days. I like the energy it gives me (I am assuming the juice gives me the energy that is.)

its the sugar rush

you would be better off with coffee

Qskim

I lost weight avoiding high sugar, high carb/refined food.

I think it is important to understand that people lose weight by eating less calories than they use over time.

It MAY be beneficial for overall health to avoid high sugar, high carb refined food but they are not to blame if you do not lose weight.

To some extent this is true...depending on where u are at on the scale. I would argue however that rapid success happens in the morbidly obese not just because of cals in cals out but also change of food. The body was only ever designed to handle so much sugar. I could point at women with pcos who are a prime example of the difficulties of losing JUST on a cals in cals out basis...any amount of refined food can stall their weightloss by 2-5 days regardless of calories consumed and their condition is not exclusive
to this anomaly. In my 20's I lost purely on a cals in cals out basis but at my peri menopausal age now it's not as simple as that.

tigersword

PCOS is a medical condition. That doesn't apply to the general population without it. And even then, it's still calories in vs calories out, PCOS is a metabolic condition that reduces the calories out side of the equation, due to inefficiencies in the ability to digest and utilize calories.

Check out the "Twinkie Diet," where a professor of nutrition lost 27 pounds by eating mostly high sugar, unhealthy foods. He lost a significant amount of weight, and saw all of his health markers improve. According to your argument (and Taubes' ludicrous theory for that matter) he shouldn't have lost weight, as he only limited calories, not sugar.

sunsnstatheart

The healthier I eat, the fewer cravings I have.

And if I do have a craving, it goes away quicker.

Also, the less healthy food just doesn't taste as good anymore.

^ I had the same experience. I enjoy ice cream almost every day and the occasional dark chocolate but I avoid sugar in foods that are not "sweets". It helps in bringing your overall calorie count down when you focus on vegetables, meats, dairy, and grains that are not sweetened. I don't think sugar is the bad guy that it is being made out to be, but then again if you eat it in the quantity that the average Westerner does, then you are going to have an issue with the sheer calorie volume alone.

tigersword

Oh, and reading through the article, it's just a ridiculous Lustig and Taubes love fest. Poorly researched, what little research was actually referred to was totally irrelevant (sorry, but a study on a child's activity level alone has no real bearing on why adults are obese. Why didn't they mention a study on the activity level of adults? Oh yeah, because adults are far less active than 50 years ago, due to the mechanization and computerization of the work place.) also, calling Lustig "one of the world's leading endocrinologists" is laughable at best. The man is a pediatrician, he doesn't even work with adults. His research is incredibly shoddy at best, and when the flaws in his methods and conclusions were openly questioned, Lustig pointed to his number of YouTube hits as his justification for being right, regardless of what the actual facts are.

And then, of course, add in the fact that (in the US at least) calorie for calorie, Americans are eating 500 calories per day more than they were in the 70's, all while consuming the SAME number of calories from sugar, and well, that pretty much completely discredits the "sugar makes people fat" argument. We aren't eating more sugar, we're just eating more calories.

dynamicwon

Check out this article. If you eat wheat it may be causing your cravings including whole whaet, cereal , oats etc. Ive cut them out and my appetite has decreased and my sugar cravings have decreased

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505269_162-57505149/modern-wheat-a-perfect-chronic-poison-doctor-says/

neverstray

Oh, and reading through the article, it's just a ridiculous Lustig and Taubes love fest. Poorly researched, what little research was actually referred to was totally irrelevant (sorry, but a study on a child's activity level alone has no real bearing on why adults are obese. Why didn't they mention a study on the activity level of adults? Oh yeah, because adults are far less active than 50 years ago, due to the mechanization and computerization of the work place.) also, calling Lustig "one of the world's leading endocrinologists" is laughable at best. The man is a pediatrician, he doesn't even work with adults. His research is incredibly shoddy at best, and when the flaws in his methods and conclusions were openly questioned, Lustig pointed to his number of YouTube hits as his justification for being right, regardless of what the actual facts are.

And then, of course, add in the fact that (in the US at least) calorie for calorie, Americans are eating 500 calories per day more than they were in the 70's, all while consuming the SAME number of calories from sugar, and well, that pretty much completely discredits the "sugar makes people fat" argument. We aren't eating more sugar, we're just eating more calories.

I'm not arguing, but I do think your facts need checking. I went and looked because I recalled reading about how sugar production in the USA has increased by a lot. This is just looking at the 80's to now. "Beet sugar production has expanded from around 2.7 million tons annually in the early 1980s when new U.S. sugar policies were implemented to an average 3.7 million in the early 1990s, up by over one-third." Here's the article: http://www.fao.org/docrep/005/X0513E/x0513e15.htm

I do think its a little complicated, as its not the only cause. But, I think it is more pervasive than we realize.

rml_16

Oh, and reading through the article, it's just a ridiculous Lustig and Taubes love fest. Poorly researched, what little research was actually referred to was totally irrelevant (sorry, but a study on a child's activity level alone has no real bearing on why adults are obese. Why didn't they mention a study on the activity level of adults? Oh yeah, because adults are far less active than 50 years ago, due to the mechanization and computerization of the work place.) also, calling Lustig "one of the world's leading endocrinologists" is laughable at best. The man is a pediatrician, he doesn't even work with adults. His research is incredibly shoddy at best, and when the flaws in his methods and conclusions were openly questioned, Lustig pointed to his number of YouTube hits as his justification for being right, regardless of what the actual facts are.

And then, of course, add in the fact that (in the US at least) calorie for calorie, Americans are eating 500 calories per day more than they were in the 70's, all while consuming the SAME number of calories from sugar, and well, that pretty much completely discredits the "sugar makes people fat" argument. We aren't eating more sugar, we're just eating more calories.

I'm not arguing, but I do think your facts need checking. I went and looked because I recalled reading about how sugar production in the USA has increased by a lot. This is just looking at the 80's to now. "Beet sugar production has expanded from around 2.7 million tons annually in the early 1980s when new U.S. sugar policies were implemented to an average 3.7 million in the early 1990s, up by over one-third." Here's the article: http://www.fao.org/docrep/005/X0513E/x0513e15.htm

I do think its a little complicated, as its not the only cause. But, I think it is more pervasive than we realize.

What's the difference in population?

tigersword

Check out this article. If you eat wheat it may be causing your cravings including whole whaet, cereal , oats etc. Ive cut them out and my appetite has decreased and my sugar cravings have decreased

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505269_162-57505149/modern-wheat-a-perfect-chronic-poison-doctor-says/

I stopped reading when he claimed that "gliadin" is a new chemical added to modern wheat. It's not. Gliadin is one of the proteins that combines with glutenin to make gluten. This has been the key to yeast breads for several thousand years. Not to mention gliadin is also found in rice, barley, rye, and just about every cereal grain there is. He even mentioned barley as not being the problem, yet he's blaming gliadin, which is in barley. He contradicts himself, and completely discredits the entire argument, because, quite frankly, he's making it up.

EvgeniZyntx

The anti-sugar fest and wheat-hate in this thread just has me shaking my head.
Tigersword has it right.
Lusting and Taubes have found the boogie man and are milking that for all it's worth.

Qskim

Check out this article. If you eat wheat it may be causing your cravings including whole whaet, cereal , oats etc. Ive cut them out and my appetite has decreased and my sugar cravings have decreased

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505269_162-57505149/modern-wheat-a-perfect-chronic-poison-doctor-says/

I stopped reading when he claimed that "gliadin" is a new chemical added to modern wheat. It's not. Gliadin is one of the proteins that combines with glutenin to make gluten. This has been the key to yeast breads for several thousand years. Not to mention gliadin is also found in rice, barley, rye, and just about every cereal grain there is. He even mentioned barley as not being the problem, yet he's blaming gliadin, which is in barley. He contradicts himself, and completely discredits the entire argument, because, quite frankly, he's making it up.

You know what astounds me with leptin research? Is how relatively new it is. I'm not a taubian...but just maybe there is more to this than just a one dimension equivalent to that of the earth being flat.

tigersword

Oh, and reading through the article, it's just a ridiculous Lustig and Taubes love fest. Poorly researched, what little research was actually referred to was totally irrelevant (sorry, but a study on a child's activity level alone has no real bearing on why adults are obese. Why didn't they mention a study on the activity level of adults? Oh yeah, because adults are far less active than 50 years ago, due to the mechanization and computerization of the work place.) also, calling Lustig "one of the world's leading endocrinologists" is laughable at best. The man is a pediatrician, he doesn't even work with adults. His research is incredibly shoddy at best, and when the flaws in his methods and conclusions were openly questioned, Lustig pointed to his number of YouTube hits as his justification for being right, regardless of what the actual facts are.

And then, of course, add in the fact that (in the US at least) calorie for calorie, Americans are eating 500 calories per day more than they were in the 70's, all while consuming the SAME number of calories from sugar, and well, that pretty much completely discredits the "sugar makes people fat" argument. We aren't eating more sugar, we're just eating more calories.

I'm not arguing, but I do think your facts need checking. I went and looked because I recalled reading about how sugar production in the USA has increased by a lot. This is just looking at the 80's to now. "Beet sugar production has expanded from around 2.7 million tons annually in the early 1980s when new U.S. sugar policies were implemented to an average 3.7 million in the early 1990s, up by over one-third." Here's the article: http://www.fao.org/docrep/005/X0513E/x0513e15.htm

I do think its a little complicated, as its not the only cause. But, I think it is more pervasive than we realize.

Exactly how does production correlate with consumption? I'm talking about how many calories were consumed per person in the US, not with how much was produced. Just looking at production says nothing, because it doesn't consider changes in population, which increased dramatically between the 80's and 90's, and it also doesn't account for exports and imports. Then you have to consider that beet sugar is only one type of sugar. You also have to keep in mind that not all sugar is produced for food consumption. Ethanol production is becoming a bigger industry, and sugar is a main component of ethanol production. Plus you're using 20 year old data. US sugar production and imports have both decreased since the nineties, in fact, the US has decreased overall sugar production by 250,000 tons since 2008, and is projected to reduce sugar imports by over 20% in the next 10 years.
Sugar production and consumption actually peaked in the US in the early 90's and has been decreasing ever since, yet the obesity "crisis" has only been getting worse. Funny how we are eating less and less of something, yet that's still being blamed as the sole culprit.

Also, even if production had increased by 1/3rd since the 80's (which is your claim, not the actual quote you posted) it also follows that the US population has increased by 1/3rd since the 80's, which would lead to no change in per capita availability (though its actually decreased in reality.)

rml_16

The anti-sugar fest and wheat-hate in this thread just has me shaking my head.
Tigersword has it right.
Lusting and Taubes have found the boogie man and are milking that for all it's worth.

Agreed. I still eat sugar and wheat. My overall diet is healthier. Barely any cravings, no problem with weight loss as long as I watch the calories.

sjohnny

Check out this article. If you eat wheat it may be causing your cravings including whole whaet, cereal , oats etc. Ive cut them out and my appetite has decreased and my sugar cravings have decreased

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505269_162-57505149/modern-wheat-a-perfect-chronic-poison-doctor-says/

oats=wheat. Interesting.

tigersword

Check out this article. If you eat wheat it may be causing your cravings including whole whaet, cereal , oats etc. Ive cut them out and my appetite has decreased and my sugar cravings have decreased

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505269_162-57505149/modern-wheat-a-perfect-chronic-poison-doctor-says/

I stopped reading when he claimed that "gliadin" is a new chemical added to modern wheat. It's not. Gliadin is one of the proteins that combines with glutenin to make gluten. This has been the key to yeast breads for several thousand years. Not to mention gliadin is also found in rice, barley, rye, and just about every cereal grain there is. He even mentioned barley as not being the problem, yet he's blaming gliadin, which is in barley. He contradicts himself, and completely discredits the entire argument, because, quite frankly, he's making it up.

You know what astounds me with leptin research? Is how relatively new it is. I'm not a taubian...but just maybe there is more to this than just a one dimension equivalent to that of the earth being flat.

This article, and my response had absolutely nothing to do with leptin.

deb3690

I'm not arguing, but I do think your facts need checking. I went and looked because I recalled reading about how sugar production in the USA has increased by a lot. This is just looking at the 80's to now. "Beet sugar production has expanded from around 2.7 million tons annually in the early 1980s when new U.S. sugar policies were implemented to an average 3.7 million in the early 1990s, up by over one-third." Here's the article: http://www.fao.org/docrep/005/X0513E/x0513e15.htm

I do think its a little complicated, as its not the only cause. But, I think it is more pervasive than we realize.

Skip the refined processed sugar and eat the beets Not to sound too preachy but McDougall's website and books have good suggestions for how to break sugar cravings...they are strong! Takes two weeks I think to really get out of the cycle and maybe a lifetime of awareness? I find that raw fruit is even a bit of a rush....they recommend NO sugar for a period and then slowly reintroduce fruits and other appropriate sweeter fruits/ veggies. Easier said than done....Im starting again for myself too!

Bobby__Clerici

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/jun/11/why-our-food-is-making-us-fat

Now I know there are a bunch of health gurus here and I was wondering if they agreed with the piece from the Guardian. I have personally noticed that when I diet or eat healthy after a day or two i get these cravings which seem to be satisfied mainly with heavily processed foods in the form sweets, cookies, chips etc.

I will eat healthy and eat fruits, drink fresh juices but it doesn't help the sugar cravings I have. I was wondering if anybody else has experienced this during their weight loss regime.

I agree that sugar can become an addiction eating processed, demineralized foods.
It takes time for those cravings to recede. With me it was about 3 months, then SMOOTH SAILING!

My point of departure is in any philosophy that excludes certain sugar based fruits and whole grains.
Count me out of that.

rml_16

I'm not arguing, but I do think your facts need checking. I went and looked because I recalled reading about how sugar production in the USA has increased by a lot. This is just looking at the 80's to now. "Beet sugar production has expanded from around 2.7 million tons annually in the early 1980s when new U.S. sugar policies were implemented to an average 3.7 million in the early 1990s, up by over one-third." Here's the article: http://www.fao.org/docrep/005/X0513E/x0513e15.htm

I do think its a little complicated, as its not the only cause. But, I think it is more pervasive than we realize.

Skip the refined processed sugar and eat the beets Not to sound too preachy but McDougall's website and books have good suggestions for how to break sugar cravings...they are strong! Takes two weeks I think to really get out of the cycle and maybe a lifetime of awareness? I find that raw fruit is even a bit of a rush....they recommend NO sugar for a period and then slowly reintroduce fruits and other appropriate sweeter fruits/ veggies. Easier said than done....Im starting again for myself too!

I broke mine by replacing things like cookies with fruit smoothies. It really isn't that difficult. I craved something sweet after a meal, so I had fruit or high-quality dark chocolate. Now I don't want the cookies. They don't taste as good. Even milk chocolate tastes gross to me now.

dynamicwon

bump

neanderthin

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/jun/11/why-our-food-is-making-us-fat

Now I know there are a bunch of health gurus here and I was wondering if they agreed with the piece from the Guardian. I have personally noticed that when I diet or eat healthy after a day or two i get these cravings which seem to be satisfied mainly with heavily processed foods in the form sweets, cookies, chips etc.

I will eat healthy and eat fruits, drink fresh juices but it doesn't help the sugar cravings I have. I was wondering if anybody else has experienced this during their weight loss regime.

Consuming refined sugars are not the best choices we could make, without a doubt considering their health implications when over consumed, but to come out and say that it's the cause of obesity and also say it has nothing to do with exercise or eating more it irresponsible and sensational journalism. Personally I would be embarrassed as an Editor of this magazine.

Sugar can easily be over consumed, especially if the diet is close to describing the average North American Diet, that's it. imo

IronSmasher

No, but diet foods that have a low fat or diet label due to replacing fats with sugars don't help.

neverstray

Oh, and reading through the article, it's just a ridiculous Lustig and Taubes love fest. Poorly researched, what little research was actually referred to was totally irrelevant (sorry, but a study on a child's activity level alone has no real bearing on why adults are obese. Why didn't they mention a study on the activity level of adults? Oh yeah, because adults are far less active than 50 years ago, due to the mechanization and computerization of the work place.) also, calling Lustig "one of the world's leading endocrinologists" is laughable at best. The man is a pediatrician, he doesn't even work with adults. His research is incredibly shoddy at best, and when the flaws in his methods and conclusions were openly questioned, Lustig pointed to his number of YouTube hits as his justification for being right, regardless of what the actual facts are.

And then, of course, add in the fact that (in the US at least) calorie for calorie, Americans are eating 500 calories per day more than they were in the 70's, all while consuming the SAME number of calories from sugar, and well, that pretty much completely discredits the "sugar makes people fat" argument. We aren't eating more sugar, we're just eating more calories.

I'm not arguing, but I do think your facts need checking. I went and looked because I recalled reading about how sugar production in the USA has increased by a lot. This is just looking at the 80's to now. "Beet sugar production has expanded from around 2.7 million tons annually in the early 1980s when new U.S. sugar policies were implemented to an average 3.7 million in the early 1990s, up by over one-third." Here's the article: http://www.fao.org/docrep/005/X0513E/x0513e15.htm

I do think its a little complicated, as its not the only cause. But, I think it is more pervasive than we realize.

Exactly how does production correlate with consumption? I'm talking about how many calories were consumed per person in the US, not with how much was produced. Just looking at production says nothing, because it doesn't consider changes in population, which increased dramatically between the 80's and 90's, and it also doesn't account for exports and imports. Then you have to consider that beet sugar is only one type of sugar. You also have to keep in mind that not all sugar is produced for food consumption. Ethanol production is becoming a bigger industry, and sugar is a main component of ethanol production. Plus you're using 20 year old data. US sugar production and imports have both decreased since the nineties, in fact, the US has decreased overall sugar production by 250,000 tons since 2008, and is projected to reduce sugar imports by over 20% in the next 10 years.
Sugar production and consumption actually peaked in the US in the early 90's and has been decreasing ever since, yet the obesity "crisis" has only been getting worse. Funny how we are eating less and less of something, yet that's still being blamed as the sole culprit.

Also, even if production had increased by 1/3rd since the 80's (which is your claim, not the actual quote you posted) it also follows that the US population has increased by 1/3rd since the 80's, which would lead to no change in per capita availability (though its actually decreased in reality.)

You didn't take what I posted with the right spirit. I'm not arguing. If its not sugar, it's not sugar. No big f'ing deal. I think it has more to do with sugar than people know. It is highly and powerfully addictive. And, it's filler without substance, so people eat more because they are never getting full. It creates a cycle of overeating of the wrong foods. There is a weird addictive quality to it. Yes, people eat more food overall than they used to even as little as 30 years ago. The question is why? I'm not a researcher. I don't have the answer. I am open to all reasonable explanations. But, my hunch is, it has to do with sugar as an additive and preservative. There are obvious many other reasons, that range from geographic location to economic reasons to educational issues. I also would not hang my hat on any one study, but would rather look for a trend in many studies over a period of time which all point to similar conclusions. Maybe, just maybe, we have such a large surplus of food, combined with our animal instinct of survival, and you have a perfect storm. It could be simple, like that. I don't really know.

Cheers.