Question for Vegans......

leavinglasvegas

I've been veggie for many years. I'm currently transitioning to a vegan diet.

This morning I went to have my blood drawn for some food allergy testing. The allergist asked me the age old question.... "How do you get protien?" I really wasn't in the mood for this talk, so I answered bluntly.... non-animal protien sources.

She went on and on about the dangers of veganism, my not taking a calcium or vitamin D supp and how I should see a dietician.

I do see a dietician and she has never, nor have my doctors, recommended anything more than a daily multi. Of course, I only started cutting out dairy last week, so this is a new topic for us to discuss. I eat tons of broccoli and spinach, get outdoors daily, and I even eat some organic, fortified cereals on occasion.

I know that by going vegan I will need to focus on B-12. My question is to anyone who is currently 100% vegan, do you take other supplements and which ones? I'm going to the doc tonight, so I'd like to be prepared as much as possible, to ask questions and know what I'm talking about.

Thanks in advance for your helpful answers!
Holly

TheMaidOfAstolat

I only ever took a Multi with a lot of B-12. I managed to get enough vit D and calcium with soy milk. Check out veganstore.com for some great stuff. They have vegan vitamins. Make sure your doc knows that you have researched this and that you're not going vegan on a whim (thanks to Skinny B****-vegetarians and vegans have gotten a bad rap due to the craze). Good luck.

lt_mrcook

Why the choice to go vegan? I'm always curious as to why people choose this path. Is it purely a taste issue? If it's a health issue, becareful where you go with that as there may be other far reaching health effects that you haven't yet considered. If it's a humane issue, just don't eat factory meat. I know plenty of places to get meat that wasn't beaten or packed so closely to another animal that you had to worry about contamination.

Humans are not herbivores, and were weren't (choose the one that fits your beliefs) designed or evolved to be. We are omnivores and either (see previous items on personal choice) were designed or evolved to eat a wide variety of food sources. Just look at the design/evolution of our teeth, and you will be hard pressed to tell me there shouldn't be a little of something going in you mouth.

You are welcome to your choice, and please don't feel this is an attack on your or any other veggie/vegan. I've know those who have chosen for all of the reasons listed above, and I respect them all. I also know some who are very healthy, and others who were not. I also know of 3 vegans who have not been able to conceive, despite numerous and varried efforts by them and their doctors. Could be coincidence, but it does start to point to a trend.

I hope that you get all of the information you need, and that whatever your choice and the reason for your choice that you are able to find a healthy balance. Best of luck.

CaitlinEats

I recommend picking up the book "Eat to Live" by Joel Fuhrman. He explains really well how you can get the nutrients you need from a plant-based diet. It's really an interesting book, and focuses on the science and nutrition rather than the animal cruelty side of things, which your doctor might appreciate. I have been vegan for extended periods (though I am just a regular veggie right now) and never had any health problems nor taken supplements, as long as I am eating properly.

Remember that dark leafy greens have calcium, and even spinach has protein in it--the only reason it's easier to get protein from meat is because you have to eat more spinach to get the same amount of protein. Eating more has never been a problem for me--it's the eating less that's hard! Beans have a ton of protein and have the added bonus of not being a leading cause of heart disease and diabetes.

I have heard that it is harder to get enough B-12, so I can't speak to that issue because I've never really dealt with it properly myself. I believe it is addressed in the book I mentioned, though.

Another thing to consider is that a lot of old-school doctors think you need to have the old-school ratios (e.g. 30% protein) and old-school diets (like the food pyramid) to be healthy, and many have other reasons for not supporting the choice to be vegan. If you really feel like your doctor (or was it just the blood technician person?) is being unsupportive, perhaps you'd find better advice from a naturopath or even just a younger, more modern doctor.

Anyway, I don't mean to sound all militant-pro-vegan or anything (especially since I'm not even vegan!), I just thought I'd share my general thoughts on the subject.

leavinglasvegas

I don't know why I didn't just message you in the first place, lol.

I do have soy milk with my cereal. I suppose that is enough to get me through the sunless Michigan days. I also have broccoli and spinach at almost every meal.

Thanks for the link, I'm checking it out.

I guess I should have expected that Skinny ***** would cause an influx of "dieters" that shed a bad light on something good. I'll make sure to explain everything to my doctor, hes pretty understanding and supportive of my ways.

Thanks!:flowerforyou:

EmilyStrick

i have toyed with the idea of going vegan. there is so much misinformation on the subject. i think being vegan may be the healthiest way to eat and live. that's what i believe from the research i have done. the research provided to the medical community is often funded by meat producers and the pharmaceutical industry, and i tend not to trust those groups! but here's some info that i have found helpful:

About Protein
The “need” for high protein is centered on fear rather than fact. The initial research on which this myth is based was done in Germany around the turn of the century and was financed mainly by the meat and dairy industries. The average American consuming animal products (meat, dairy) eats much more protein than he or she needs. What happens to the extra protein? Metabolizing protein produces toxic byproducts that the liver must process, and then it is excreted by the kidneys. Thus, too much protein intake stresses the organs. According to the American Dietetic Association, a pure vegetarian diet supplies more than the required protein for one's daily need. Harvard University researchers have found that it is practically impossible to have a vegetarian diet that produces a protein deficiency unless you're only eating sweets and other vegetarian junk food. Vegetarian protein is a lot easier for the body to digest. At Hippocrates Health Institute it was shown that the people who ate the most meat were actually more susceptible to protein deficiency. Firstly, because the body finds it so difficult to digest animal protein, it often doesn't get fully digested and instead putrefies in our intestines. Secondly, the body doesn't really know what to do with all the excess protein, so it dumps it in the basement membranes. Basement membranes are those through which nutrients and oxygen are filtered into the cells from the capillaries and through waste products of the cells are filtered out into the blood to be eliminated. The more excess protein there is in the diet, the more gets dumped in the basement membrane. Eventually, the basement membrane gets so clogged that nutrients and oxygen are not able to pass into the cells and waste products cannot be eliminated. You begin to build up toxins and wastes and you start to suffocate on a cellular level. The build-up of protein contributes to hypertension, atherosclerosis, cardiovascular disease and diabetes.

Additional information about protein:

http://www.pcrm.org/health/veginfo/protein.html

http://www.drmcdougall.com/med_hot_protein.html

About B12

B12 (also called cobalamin due to its central cobalt atom) is a water-soluble vitamin with a very low recommended daily intake requirement, about 2-3 micrograms per day. In addition to having extremely low intake requirements, Vitamin B12 is stored in the liver, kidneys, and muscle tissue, and most B12 (65-75%) is reabsorbed by the body instead of excreted. A deficiency could take from 5 to 20 years of inadequate intake to develop. There are many vegan foods fortified with B12. They include non-dairy milks, meat substitutes, breakfast cereals and some nutritional yeast. Sublingual vegan B12 supplements are also available.

TheMaidOfAstolat

I don't know why I didn't just message you in the first place, lol.

I do have soy milk with my cereal. I suppose that is enough to get me through the sunless Michigan days. I also have broccoli and spinach at almost every meal.

Thanks for the link, I'm checking it out.

I guess I should have expected that Skinny ***** would cause an influx of "dieters" that shed a bad light on something good. I'll make sure to explain everything to my doctor, hes pretty understanding and supportive of my ways.

Thanks!:flowerforyou:

It's always great to have a doc that understands the reasons behind the actions. Mine took a while to warm up to the fact that eating meat is cruel. I had the same doctor for the first 18 years of my life (he had my mother attempt to shove hamburger down my throat when I was around 5 years old--it never made it down...I spit it right back out). I have never to this day eaten cow, lamb/sheep, or pig, or any wild meat. lol. Remember to remain calm...we veg/vegans tend to be pretty staunch supporters of what we belive and come across to some as well, hauty. Good luck. :flowerforyou:

leavinglasvegas

Why the choice to go vegan? I'm always curious as to why people choose this path. Is it purely a taste issue? If it's a health issue, becareful where you go with that as there may be other far reaching health effects that you haven't yet considered. If it's a humane issue, just don't eat factory meat. I know plenty of places to get meat that wasn't beaten or packed so closely to another animal that you had to worry about contamination.

Humans are not herbivores, and were weren't (choose the one that fits your beliefs) designed or evolved to be. We are omnivores and either (see previous items on personal choice) were designed or evolved to eat a wide variety of food sources. Just look at the design/evolution of our teeth, and you will be hard pressed to tell me there shouldn't be a little of something going in you mouth.

You are welcome to your choice, and please don't feel this is an attack on your or any other veggie/vegan. I've know those who have chosen for all of the reasons listed above, and I respect them all. I also know some who are very healthy, and others who were not. I also know of 3 vegans who have not been able to conceive, despite numerous and varried efforts by them and their doctors. Could be coincidence, but it does start to point to a trend.

I hope that you get all of the information you need, and that whatever your choice and the reason for your choice that you are able to find a healthy balance. Best of luck.

I am a vegetarian because my colon cannot pass meat the way a normal person can. This is something that I have dealt with for many years and have been told by several medical professionals that I'm just not meant to eat meat. I'm fine with that because it repulses me to the core anyways.

I also don't care for factory farming and I do not trust anyone that anything is not contaminated. Especially if it was inspected by the USDA.

I'm choosing Vegan for multiple reasons. Lactose intollerance, digestive problems, animal rights, etc.

I know we are omnivores, but we evolved from eating scavenged carcass on the Savannah. I'm a believer that evolution is not done with us. I was born without wisdom teeth and I cann't process meat in my colon. I quite possibly am the beginning of a new species.

leavinglasvegas

Eat to Live is on my reading list for my next library trip! So is Eating Animals by Jonathon Safran Foer!

I love the PCRM, I get email updates and tried the 21-day Vegan kickstart this year. I failed, but I wasn't as understanding as I should have been. I've done enough reading and experimenting now. I think it will be easier now that I know what I can eat to replace things that I can't.

msarro

My biggest recommendation is to make sure you're getting complete proteins (beans and nuts + grains, tofu, etc). If you've been a vegetarian for awhile, you should know that already. Make sure you are getting the following:

Calcium
Iron
Vitamin B12
Vitamin D

Those would be my biggest concerns, moreso than protein. Be careful about your vitamins, most off the shelf vitamins aren't coming from non-animal sources because its simply not cost-effective, especially not for B12 - so be prepared to pay a bit more for vegan supplements.

Calcium you can make up from plant sources, do your research. Spinach is awesome for iron.

Luckily as a guy I don't have to worry so much about iron.

Good luck in your ventures. Jainists have been quasi-vegans for millenia and have almost no issues. I reccomend you check out some Jainist recipes.

EmilyStrick

p.s. - you've probably already seen it, but theppk.com has some great vegan recipes!

leavinglasvegas

My biggest recommendation is to make sure you're getting complete proteins (beans and nuts + grains, tofu, etc). If you've been a vegetarian for awhile, you should know that already. Make sure you are getting the following:

Calcium
Iron
Vitamin B12
Vitamin D

Those would be my biggest concerns, moreso than protein. Be careful about your vitamins, most off the shelf vitamins aren't coming from non-animal sources because its simply not cost-effective, especially not for B12 - so be prepared to pay a bit more for vegan supplements.

Calcium you can make up from plant sources, do your research. Spinach is awesome for iron.

Luckily as a guy I don't have to worry so much about iron.

Good luck in your ventures. Jainists have been quasi-vegans for millenia and have almost no issues. I reccomend you check out some Jainist recipes.

I love spinach! And Broccoli! Just give me some spinach, onions, broccoli, beans, and brown rice and I'm a happy lady! I could make 2 million recipes from just those ingredients! O and garbanzos!

I'll check out some Jainist recipes, thanks for the comment!

lt_mrcook

New species? You should get to name yourself right...:)

I really do wish you the best of luck. Don't forget tofu as a protien source. The fermentation process actually makes it more bioavailable to your body. Don't forget about your essential fatty acids too (think nut). I think that's where the unhealthy vegans I know go wrong as they have almost NO fat in their diets. My last bit of info is to do some more research on soy milk, as I saw something recently that mentioned it may net be that healthy for you do to the process by which it's made (kinda like the reverse of the tofu thing).

I still believe that we should eat the widest variety of things we can, and you should do the same. If your widest variety doesn't include anything from an animal, that's fine. Just try to stretch out as far as you can.

I'd suggest the small book (booklet really), "Food Rules" by Michael Pollan. I know some of the rules will not apply to you (meat and animal oriented), but he's done some really good research on the rest of the food industry (big food is evil) that you should consider.

On that same note. Just because big food (evil empire) has ruined America's food supply, and basically made meat production an exercise in cruelity doesn't mean that meat is cruel. Some modern thinking farmers, Joe Salatin at the forefront, believe that letting the animals roam and forage as they would in nature provides not only better nutrition for us but a better life for them.

I wish you all health, vitality, and happiness everyday.

leavinglasvegas

I shall call my species H. Veggierectis:laugh:

Thanks for all the tips!

I just got home from my endocrinologist. He was very impressed with my progress. I don't have to see him for 6 weeks this time! And he said I may be able to start reducing some meds next time!!!!!! He attributes it all to my willingness to participate.

As for the lecture I got this morning... He laughed! He said if veganism is done correctly, it is actually healthier. Vegans live longer and have less body fat when it is done properly. He did agree that the best source of protien is from animals. But he also said that doesn't mean that you have to do it. He complimented my knowledge and research and said that I have more knowledge than most doctors. He is confident that my transition will be good for me because I've put alot of thought into it and I'm doing it for the right reasons. Since he is monitoring my blood, if I show low levels of ANYTHING, he will know what to recommend dietwise and I don't need to supplement unless my diet is unable to provide. So in other words, I keep doing what I'm doing and he'll keep doing what he's doing. Allergist should do what she is supposed to do and shut-it.

I love this guy! My life seriously turned around when I started treatment with him.

:bigsmile: Best day ever!

TheMaidOfAstolat

You go girl! It's a great feeling to know that your body is healthy and healthier than most. :flowerforyou:

VegGrrl

Just had to clear something up - just because you don't eat animal products does NOT mean you are a vegan! Vegans eschew animal products and use of anything harmful to animals (i.e.products tested on animals, non-food items with animal ingredients). We don't wear leather or wool or silk. We don't buy anything from Proctor and Gamble (evil animal testing conglomerate). We don't donate to March of Dimes (see previous). We don't kill spiders in our homes. You get the picture. So if you don't EAT animal products (usually for health reasons) you can call yourself a strict vegetarian, but not a vegan. Vegansim is a lifestyle, not a diet, and it's done for ethical reasons- the health benefits are just a wonderful side-effect! (Oh, and "my" definition of "vegan" comes from Donald Watson, the man who invented the word - he should know!)

Thanks everyone - peace!
VegGrrl

TheMaidOfAstolat

Just had to clear something up - just because you don't eat animal products does NOT mean you are a vegan! Vegans eschew animal products and use of anything harmful to animals (i.e.products tested on animals, non-food items with animal ingredients). We don't wear leather or wool or silk. We don't buy anything from Proctor and Gamble (evil animal testing conglomerate). We don't donate to March of Dimes (see previous). We don't kill spiders in our homes. You get the picture. So if you don't EAT animal products (usually for health reasons) you can call yourself a strict vegetarian, but not a vegan. Vegansim is a lifestyle, not a diet, and it's done for ethical reasons- the health benefits are just a wonderful side-effect! (Oh, and "my" definition of "vegan" comes from Donald Watson, the man who invented the word - he should know!)

Thanks everyone - peace!
VegGrrl

I was vegan for 3 years...yep that included no leather, no carmine in makeup, no other animal byproducts ect (I'm a member of PETA)...you really might want to look at the peoples profiles before you make a generalized comment. Also...you sound a little snotty and standoffish (this really turns people off from wanting to be around or learn about the lifestyle).

VegGrrl

I've been veggie for many years. I'm currently transitioning to a vegan diet.

This morning I went to have my blood drawn for some food allergy testing. The allergist asked me the age old question.... "How do you get protien?" I really wasn't in the mood for this talk, so I answered bluntly.... non-animal protien sources.

She went on and on about the dangers of veganism, my not taking a calcium or vitamin D supp and how I should see a dietician.

if a cow, only eating plants, can get enough Vit D and protein to make milk containing Vit D and protein, why not just skip running the plants through the cow and just eat the plants?!

If you live in a large urban area, you might try to find a vegan or vegetarian doctor - they are usually more knowledgeable about nutrition than most MD's and don't buy into the myths and poor science propagated by the meat and dairy industries... It's great to have diet be a non-issue with your doctor! (I do understand we're not all lucky enough to have the choice to change doctors (insurance, etc) but if it's a possibility....they are out there. Well, I hope they are- in your area! We're very spoiled where I live - it's vegan/veg paradise - I imagine many cities aren't so accomodating to veggie folk, nor have such a large veg population.)

Peace-
VegGrrl

VegGrrl

Nope, not snotty (definitely not snotty!) nor too standoffish, just an old lady who might come across that way to you young whippersnappers! <g> Sorry if I did - certainly not my intent!! Just wanted to clarify for the folks bandying the word about - the ones who aren't familiar with the lifestyle. Hey, I wasn't born vegan, and if no one ever explained it to me, I wouldn't be one today! :flowerforyou:

Peace-
VG

TheMaidOfAstolat

Nope, not snotty (definitely not snotty!) nor too standoffish, just an old lady who might come across that way to you young whippersnappers! <g> Sorry if I did - certainly not my intent!! Just wanted to clarify for the folks bandying the word about - the ones who aren't familiar with the lifestyle. Hey, I wasn't born vegan, and if no one ever explained it to me, I wouldn't be one today! :flowerforyou:

Peace-
VG

Okie dokie...I've been working with Holly for a while on the transition. I'm no longer vegan (although I still try to avoid many items containing animal byproducts).

leavinglasvegas

I'm not really an animal person. I don't like em. But I also don't want to eat 'em. And I don't want to live in a world where humans think they can torture, kill, and do whatever to the rest of the world. Besides my sofas:embarassed: I have nothing nor do I wish to have anything from animals. Even cosmetics, etc I make sure they are cruelty free. (They were free, I needed furniture and I wasn't where I am now back then. As soon as I have some money, they will be gone)

Aside from food I haven't given the other stuff much thought just yet. But I will get there thats for sure. I'm currently thinking along the reasons of health, but the rest isn't far for me. Its a lifestyle that I can adapt to, thats for sure. Just one step at a time.

Thanks for your input!

Jujubeez330

I am not a Vegan but my father in law is eating a vegan diet while in end stage cancer, it slows the growth of tumors, supposedly. Anywho, he had some radiation to prevent growth of one particular brain tumor giving him migraines and destroying his vision in the left eye (otherwise he's against traditional chemo and radiation, for himself that is.)

The radiation left him with a pretty severe weight loss and I did some online research. I saw there are two very good vegan based (really, not just in title) sprouted grain protein shakes available if your concerned about protein and B. One is Hemp seed (sprouted) based and the other used 12 other sprouted grains to achieve the same.

Both are gluten, dairy, soy and animal free and can be mixed into a fruit or veggie smoothie. If you're interested I'll dig up the links and send them to you.

jmarie9

I know that by going vegan I will need to focus on B-12. My question is to anyone who is currently 100% vegan, do you take other supplements and which ones? I'm going to the doc tonight, so I'd like to be prepared as much as possible, to ask questions and know what I'm talking about.

nutritional yeast works for me and my B12. I just put it in my pasta or beans or salad...

spritie

Hey, just thought I'd chuck in my 2c. I commend you for thinking bout this and trying to make this change, it can be really good at times. Definatly keep up the nutrient rich green leafy vegetables. They are definatly your friend. Also mushrooms are a good one as they have zinc. Zinc isn't really one you have to watch, but its improtant to make sure you have some high zinc foods that you eat fairly regularily, cause it also helps with the absorption of other nutrients.

Also your already vego so I'm sure you understand the protein sources, legumes etc. etc. Just a reminder to not depend too heavily on soy based products. for a while there I was having a very high soy diet, as being both time and money poor TVP became a very common food for me. Refined soy, like refined everything else is pretty bad for you, so just keep an eye on that one, temeh and fermented or whole soy products are pretty sweet, things a bit more processes like tofu and soy milk need to be watch, and then your fake meats, TVP etc need to be a sometimes food at most. So while they are some of the best places to get calcium etc. Also maybe check out other diary alternatives too once in a while, most of them are fortified with calcium these days and it will stop soy taking over your diet.

Good luck thought, I hope you enjoy the difference

leavinglasvegas

I got the results of my food allergy testing. The foods that must be cut out of my diet are:

Eggs
Corn
Milk
Walnuts
Yogurt
Barley
Cheese
Peanuts
Wheat
Greenbeans
Gluten
Rye
Yeast (Brewer and baker)
Malt
Tomato

:noway: :noway: :noway: :noway: :noway: :noway:
:ohwell:

Wow. This is going to require very careful planning!

TheMaidOfAstolat

I got the results of my food allergy testing. The foods that must be cut out of my diet are:

Eggs
Corn
Milk
Walnuts
Yogurt
Barley
Cheese
Peanuts
Wheat
Greenbeans
Gluten
Rye
Yeast (Brewer and baker)
Malt
Tomato

:noway: :noway: :noway: :noway: :noway: :noway:
:ohwell:

Wow. This is going to require very careful planning!

All I can say is thank God that soy didn't make that list.