I'm taking issue with those telling people it's ok to starve

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BrendaLee
BrendaLee Posts: 4,463 Member
in Health and Weight Loss
Why encourage someone to not eat enough? I don't quite get that. Sure, there are quick and dirty ways to lose weight, but weight isn't the only issue- we all want to come out of this healthy, don't we? Ok, so you don't believe that "starvation mode" exists, that's fine, but it takes a certain amount of calories to fit in all of the nutrition a body needs. You do believe that nutrition exists, right? You do believe that a person can suffer from a lack of nutrition, don't you? Sometimes I just want to yell at these people, ARE YOU INSANE? When someone comes on the boards and asks a question like, "I only eat 700 calories a day, and I'm afraid I'm going to go into starvation mode", the correct response is not, "starvation mode is a myth", the correct response is, "you need to eat more because you're not properly feeding your body".

If your car doesn't have gas in it, it's not going to take you very far.
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Replies

  • kalmf
    kalmf Posts: 351 Member
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    I'm not familiar with the post you're talking about, but I get your frustration. After all, it is called "My FITNESS pal" not my "Skinny at all costs pal" or my "Losing my gall bladder but who cares I'm a size 4 pal"
    Your outrage is healthy!
    karin
  • barbiecat
    barbiecat Posts: 16,919 Member
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    :flowerforyou: :flowerforyou: :flowerforyou: I agree with you......I am an advocate of eating nutrition dense foods......getting enough calories and eating only food that is nourishing........100 calories of salad veggies is much healthier than a 100 calorie snack pack of crackers or cookies or a glass of wine:bigsmile:
  • Sarah219
    Sarah219 Posts: 46
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    I strongly believe starvation mode exists !!! I totally agree with your post .......good on you for posting this !!!! :smile:
  • kwardklinck
    kwardklinck Posts: 1,601
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    There are so many fad diets. How is this healthy for you? I agree that you must have so many cals a day in order to get all of the food groups in. I also wholeheartedly agree that people should try to take in things that are good for them instead of snack packs or whatever. I can get most of my nutrition in 1200 cals but a good deal of those cals come from veggies, legumes, milk, and fruit. I sometimes find myself exercising extra to get my fruit in for the day. People who eat 700 cals a day are on a diet because there's no way they can keep that up for the rest of their lives. Diets don't work. As soon as you stop, the weight comes right back on again. It has to be about a lifestyle change. People shouldn't leave out whole food groups. I think it's silly to think you can go without eating carbs for the rest of your life. I can honestly say that I could live on what I'm eating now forever. I have energy and I'm not hungry. It's all about your mindset.
  • sdscouser
    sdscouser Posts: 320
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    WOW!!! I could not agree more with you guys. Diets do not work. They are a short term state of mind and in my opinion they are punishment for liking food. I believe that people should commit to a life style change and that change should be about eating sensibly and healthy. Weight loss shold be slow and controlled for it to (a) be effective and (b) to be healthy. Fast/Crash dieting only give short term improvements and vcan lead to long term health problems. For me it has been a hard struggle to change the way I eat. And although it has been hard I am seeing the changes. I don't think twice about measuring my food or working out the calories. And if I want the odd little treat I either work out harder at the gym or sacrifice something esle from my daily allowance. My allowance is 1600 calories a day and am averaging 1.5 pounds loss a week.
  • SASSYJAX
    SASSYJAX Posts: 103 Member
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    MALNUTRITION is not something you want to muck about with - ie being under the 1200 cals mark ... I was bulimic and was on about 500 cals a day ( after my exercising and purging ) for nearly 3 years and the effects of the lack of nutrition on my body were not funny and I felt really awful every single day.

    I had terrible skin, my hair fell out in clumps, I lost half of my hair and was bald in these places. I had no energy and I felt very depressed, I could not concentrate and follow a sentance. I couldnt go to the loo properly and still cant. and my metabolism is messed up.

    I know bulimia is not the same as malnutrition but the result of my bulimia was that the physical (let alone emotional) effects were of malnutrition and horrible. The price was too high.

    Keep healthy and your body will reward you, that means giving it enough fuel to work efficiently.
    Please give your body the best fuel it can have and nourish it, and cherish your health, you dont appreciate it until you havent got it, and then it is too late...!
    x
    all things in moderation, including moderation!
    Be happy!
  • hawkesm
    hawkesm Posts: 4
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    Starvation mode is a myth. In studies of starvation, where they had guys in a compound so they could control what they ate and how much they worked out, the people in them continued to lose weight right to the bitter end even though their metabolism slowed down as much as 40%.

    I think this is what was being referred to, and if you read what is written, there is a denial of starvation mode, and then a statement that metabolism slowed by 40%, which is what starvation mode basically is. Which also shows that "starvation mode" can affect brain functions as much as it can affect the metabolism.
  • Raphi
    Raphi Posts: 124 Member
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    AMEN to all of you :flowerforyou: !!
    I don't know if starvation mode is a myth or not, but I know malnutrition is not one! It is amazing how opinions differ... I read the post that is in quotations above, and the comments after it, and I thought to myself "am I the only one who think this doesn't make any sense :noway: ?!" And I'm happy to see that I'm not !!
  • SHBoss1673
    SHBoss1673 Posts: 7,161 Member
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    Haha! Welcome to my world Brenda! If I had a nickle for every time I explained about the human metabolism, well... horrible saying but...
  • djfshop
    djfshop Posts: 63 Member
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    Believe it or not, I do believe there is a starvation mode as well. But some people's fuel tanks are quite different than others. If I eat over 1400 I will gain weight. If I eat 1200 I will stay the same. I have to be under that to lose. My endocrinologist has encouraged me to go to 1000. I had Grave's disease and had radiation to kill my thyroid, so I am left with this sluggish metabolism. To lose weight, I have to exercise like crazy so I can eat more so that my net calories are about 1000.
  • FireMonkey
    FireMonkey Posts: 500 Member
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    You make a good point regarding basic nutritional needs. Sometimes it seems there's a lot of talk about "starvation mode" if somebody doesn't meet their calories for a day or couple of days. I think it takes a longer time of consistently going below your needs to actually get to that point. The Minnesota experiment took over a year, with the last 6 months or so for rehabilitation. And the men still lost weight while they were starving, except after a while they lost weight more slowly than expected. But meeting your nutritional requirements does take at least 1,000-1,200 calories a day, unless you're under medical supervision for some condition.
  • TheMaidOfAstolat
    TheMaidOfAstolat Posts: 3,222 Member
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    Thank you Brenda! So many people do not understand nutrition and the calorie deficit. I try to jump on those posts and try to correct the damage done (I'm more often than not on a vegetarian post having to remind them what they need to eat and to take B-12). This is the way of the world...people want to be 'thin' without realising that their body shape may not allow them to be super skinny. We're all on here to be healthy...not twigs.
  • Azdak
    Azdak Posts: 8,281 Member
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    IMO, there is a difference between a "starvation" level or a supposed "malnutritive" level and a very high caloric deficit.

    Absolutely agree that going below 1200 Cal/day, except in specific cases such as the doctor-recommended post earlier, is not a good thing--either short or long-term.

    However i do believe that, especially for those with higher BF levels or a lot of weight to lose that maintaining deficits of greater than 1000 Cals/day is not necessarily a bad thing. If you are eating sufficient calories of nutrient dense foods to maintain your body's needs and following a quality exercise program, than I wouldn't discourage someone who was having success this way.

    A body with 35%-50% body fat is more likely to use stored body fat to supply a caloric deficit, and eating the right foods and the right exercise will help conserve lean body mass. At some point, yes, the person will have to restructure their program. But I also think that the benefits of someone losing 60, 80, 100+ pounds more than outweigh any temporary metabolic disruption that might occur with a larger calorie deficit.

    But I agree 100% that, most of the time, trying a do-it-yourself VLCD is not only unhealthy, but almost guarantees long-term failure.
  • questionablemethods
    questionablemethods Posts: 2,174 Member
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    Starvation mode is a myth. In studies of starvation, where they had guys in a compound so they could control what they ate and how much they worked out, the people in them continued to lose weight right to the bitter end even though their metabolism slowed down as much as 40%.

    I think this is what was being referred to, and if you read what is written, there is a denial of starvation mode, and then a statement that metabolism slowed by 40%, which is what starvation mode basically is. Which also shows that "starvation mode" can affect brain functions as much as it can affect the metabolism.

    I agree with the spirit of this thread. I too have heard this comment about how "people who are starved do lose weight." Okay, sure. But then what people don't follow up with is: How did those people feel? Did they have enough energy to get through a busy day? Did they still have all of their hair? How much muscle mass did they lose? And, most importantly for anyone wanting to make a permanent change: how quickly did they GAIN THE WEIGHT BACK?
  • nicolina823
    nicolina823 Posts: 450 Member
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    I'll start off by saying that I believe that you do need to eat enough to keep you going and your body healthy. You all have valid points and I agree to a point. I also do believe that its not a complete must to meet 1200 calories.

    My situation is that I dont meet my 1200 cal goal daily. With that being said I do however meet all of my other goals and go over them. I eat a ton of veggies. I have over a cup with each meal. I go over my protein from the rec 45 on MFP to 61 rec from my doctor. My fiber, calcium and iron are all met. My calories for the day can range between 600-1000 depending on what I choose to eat. Chicken or turkey my calories are higher. Beans not so much. I by no means am starving and I lose weight at a healthy pace. I also have blood work and doctors visits on a regular basis.

    If I sat there trying to eat 1200 calories a day after I met all of my other goals I would have so many health issues from my body not being able to process the extra protien etc. I've talked to my doctor and my SIL who is a nutritionist and they both say that I'm on the right track as long as all of the other goals are met.

    You are free to flame away :)
  • SHBoss1673
    SHBoss1673 Posts: 7,161 Member
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    You make a good point regarding basic nutritional needs. Sometimes it seems there's a lot of talk about "starvation mode" if somebody doesn't meet their calories for a day or couple of days. I think it takes a longer time of consistently going below your needs to actually get to that point. The Minnesota experiment took over a year, with the last 6 months or so for rehabilitation. And the men still lost weight while they were starving, except after a while they lost weight more slowly than expected. But meeting your nutritional requirements does take at least 1,000-1,200 calories a day, unless you're under medical supervision for some condition.

    This Minnesota study proved a lot of points about starvation, but more recent studies have proven out that the body begins "metabolic conservation" at about 3 days. The amount of calorie deficit needed to trigger this type of starvation is variable depending on the genetics of the person, the amount of fat mass the person has, the location of the fat mass with regards to blood supply, the age and sex of the person, and the activity levels of the person. But many different studies done all agree that you begin to see significant changes in the metabolism after 2 to 4 days of caloric deficit. After 2 weeks of a large deficit, symptoms similar to anorexia begin to show (hair loss, enhancement of neurosis, lethargy, problems with concentration, skin problems, lowered immune functions ...etc.)

    In point of fact, the body enters fasting glucose levels after 24 hours of starvation, this in turn starts a whole host of other metabolic chain reactions that subsequently lower the resting metabolism of a person, reduce organ function, leech calcium from the bones, reduce immune system response, increase cortisol production, reduce insulin production, increase adipose fat storage, and increase liver and kidney function (not a good thing in this case).

    here is my evidentiary studies (a few of them, there are more)

    Resting energy expenditure in short-term starvation is increased asa result of an increase in serum norepinephrine1,2
    -Christian Zauner, Bruno Schneeweiss, Alexander Kranz, Christian Madl, Klaus Ratheiser, Ludwig Kramer, Erich Roth,
    Barbara Schneider, and Kurt Lenz


    Metabolic Aspects of Acute Starvation In Normal Humans: Performance and Cardiovascular Evaluation
    -C. FRANK CONSOLAZIO, RICHARD A. NELSON, HERMAN L. JOHNSON, LEROY O. MATOUSH, HARRY J. KRZYWICKI, and GERHARD J. ISAAC
  • amk44
    amk44 Posts: 159
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    As I started this diet, my motivation was double fold: bring down the weight and bring down the blood pressure, BUT I decided I wanted to do it slowly. There have been days when, for whatever reason, I just didn't feel like eating much of anything, and could have gone through the day eating as low as 400 calories, but I made a conscious decision that if I was going to do this, then I wanted to do it my way (the healthiest way that I was aware of), and the starvation route didn't make any sense to me. I think my husband is happy that I made that decision, because I'm losing weight, but NOT MY SMILE. So what if it takes me a little longer to get to the weight I wish to be, I'm not giving up enjoying living as I make this journey.

    So to increase the calories on those super low days, I pulled something nutritious out of the refrigerator (plus I enjoyed some walnuts, etc.) No, I admit that I don't usually use the entire 1200 calories. This is partly because I'm unsure of just how accurate my calorie tally is, since I make so many things from scratch, and I prefer error on the low side of the 1200, but I do try to stay close to the goal. And I'm getting a better feel for the caloric (and nutritional) value of foods and recommended portion sizes without constantly looking them up. Since I started at this site, my frig is always full ---- of all kinds of fresh foods (applesauce or fresh fruit salad, leafy salads, steamed vegetables, etc). Today's treat is a fresh pineapple that I'm looking forward to cutting up! Starvation diet? For me, it is out of the question. (Plus, did anyone ever consider the Negative Calorie foods? Maybe choosing a starvation diet is counter productive.)

    I visited mypyramid.gov to research current recommendations for a healthy diet, and now I'm enjoying so many foods that I didn't eat before. My blood pressure has come down to normal (without meds) and I've dropped 21 pounds since joining this site. For me, choosing a starvation diet may have indeed caused me to lose weight, but I truly believe it would have resulted in my ending up in the hospital (and I started this diet to AVOID that option). I am 65, and I've been told it's harder for seniors to lose weight, but increasing fresh fruits and vegetables, new spices and herbs, homemade low sodium soups, more fish, etc (plus my morning "basement steps" exercises) have benefited me greatly.

    We all make choices, and when I started my diet, I CHOSE not to use the starvation diet. For me, the slow and steady nutritious route is helping me to accomplish my goal. And I believe that after I have reached my goal, the habits that I'm now acquiring will insure my maintenance of it.
  • cardigirl
    cardigirl Posts: 492 Member
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    I'll start off by saying that I believe that you do need to eat enough to keep you going and your body healthy. You all have valid points and I agree to a point. I also do believe that its not a complete must to meet 1200 calories.

    My situation is that I dont meet my 1200 cal goal daily. With that being said I do however meet all of my other goals and go over them. I eat a ton of veggies. I have over a cup with each meal. I go over my protein from the rec 45 on MFP to 61 rec from my doctor. My fiber, calcium and iron are all met. My calories for the day can range between 600-1000 depending on what I choose to eat. Chicken or turkey my calories are higher. Beans not so much. I by no means am starving and I lose weight at a healthy pace. I also have blood work and doctors visits on a regular basis.

    If I sat there trying to eat 1200 calories a day after I met all of my other goals I would have so many health issues from my body not being able to process the extra protien etc. I've talked to my doctor and my SIL who is a nutritionist and they both say that I'm on the right track as long as all of the other goals are met.

    You are free to flame away :)

    Was wondering what you are doing for exercise that warrants the extra protein? And how long have you been trying to lose the weight?
  • shaggys
    shaggys Posts: 140 Member
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    I'm not familiar with the post you're talking about, but I get your frustration. After all, it is called "My FITNESS pal" not my "Skinny at all costs pal" or my "Losing my gall bladder but who cares I'm a size 4 pal"
    Your outrage is healthy!
    karin
    LMAO
  • jillybeanruns
    jillybeanruns Posts: 1,420 Member
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    My take on this whole situation: 1200 calories is far far far too low. I've accidentally got into starvation mode twice since I've been on this site, and felt like **** the next day. Only when I went back and accounted for what I ate the next day did I realize how low I had stayed. Everyone's body is different, but I had horrible headaches, soreness in my entire body and I felt nauseous.

    I'm not looking for any crazy sort of weight loss, I'm currently 140 (started MFP about a month ago at 147.6) and ideally want to be 120. So based on my weight and height (5'4") most people would argue that I should consume 1200 calories. No freaking way. I'm having success with my goal of 1600 calories a day. I do eat half of my exercise calories as well, so some days I eat 1900 calories day. But losing 8 pounds in less than a month I deem to be a success, keeping in mind that I don't need to lose a monumental amount of weight. For anyone having trouble losing, up your caloric intake for a while and see what happens. If you're not having success, what's the harm in experimenting a little?

    This has to be a lifestyle change, not a diet. Diets won't last for an extended period of time. You'll have great success at the beginning but won't be able to keep it off. No matter what you think, dropping off a pound or two a week is the best, and easiest, way to do it.

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