ketogenic diets and depression

Springfield_Rocks

has anybody here read any interesting information on this topic? i have read alot about low carb and its effect on serotonin levels, but seems mostly negative and from typical websites that are not pro keto.

i am not trolling. i have a severe sugar addiction and depression and i want some real advice backed up with literature.

i read this interesting blog, but it's old and i am not bipolar. http://evolutionarypsychiatry.blogspot.ca/2010/08/ketogenic-diets-and-bipolar-disorder-2.html

can anyone help me?

i am also working with my doctor so i won't just be trying out anything without checking with him as well. so no naggy nellies!

onyxgirl17

Can't help you out here. I think I'd be pretty depressed on a ketogenic diet

Springfield_Rocks

another post

http://evolutionarypsychiatry.blogspot.ca/

this doc seems to really be on to something....

Springfield_Rocks

Can't help you out here. I think I'd be pretty depressed on a ketogenic diet

lol! i know it is very limited. but perhaps it is worth it if it helps me to feel better psychologically?

laurastrait21

The only thing i have read in regards to a ketogenic diet and neurologic conditions is that it is effective for people with intractible epilepsy but is only recommended if nothing else (medications, lifestlye changes i.e. sleep patterns, alcohol use etc.) has worked.

I wouldn't recommend it -- but if you can find peer-reviewed literature that states otherwise, it is worth a shot. There is also some interesting articles out there about fish oil consumption and depression -- but everything I've read in terms of carbohydrate/sugar is not significant.

PaleoPath4Lyfe

Here is my n=1 peer reviewed study, conducted and studied by ME and ME alone.

I find that the High Fat / Low Carb ketogenic approach tremendously helps me with depression symptoms. I have lots of energy and actually feel like working out at the gym. I sleep better and I eat well.

Lots of fat, moderated protein and fill in the rest with vegetables.

The best thing to do is to try it for yourself. Become your own n=1 experiment and study yourself. Try it for 4-6 weeks and see if you have any improvements.

I do know that adequate fat intake is crucial for proper brain and other hormone functions.

Springfield_Rocks

The only thing i have read in regards to a ketogenic diet and neurologic conditions is that it is effective for people with intractible epilepsy but is only recommended if nothing else (medications, lifestlye changes i.e. sleep patterns, alcohol use etc.) has worked.

I wouldn't recommend it -- but if you can find peer-reviewed literature that states otherwise, it is worth a shot. There is also some interesting articles out there about fish oil consumption and depression -- but everything I've read in terms of carbohydrate/sugar is not significant.

i have read a lot of similar articles. the reason i guess i am wondering is because i had tried a Daniel fast in November which is opposite of ketogenic, no animal products and no refined sugar. I felt absolutley terrible, i lasted about two weeks and i had a mjor mood meltdown. I know it was related to the diet, so I thought I should do the opposite. So that is where i am at.

WendyTerry420

Chocolate is good for depression. Avoid alcohol.

Springfield_Rocks

Here is my n=1 peer reviewed study, conducted and studied by ME and ME alone.

I find that the High Fat / Low Carb ketogenic approach tremendously helps me with depression symptoms. I have lots of energy and actually feel like working out at the gym. I sleep better and I eat well.

Lots of fat, moderated protein and fill in the rest with vegetables.

The best thing to do is to try it for yourself. Become your own n=1 experiment and study yourself. Try it for 4-6 weeks and see if you have any improvements.

I do know that adequate fat intake is crucial for proper brain and other hormone functions.

thank you! what kind of fat do you primarily eat?

can i add you as a friend and peek at your diary?

felice03

where is a certain FlamboyantFather when you need him?

Kaathmandu

Works for me!

Bentley2718

Here is my n=1 peer reviewed study, conducted and studied by ME and ME alone.

I find that the High Fat / Low Carb ketogenic approach tremendously helps me with depression symptoms. I have lots of energy and actually feel like working out at the gym. I sleep better and I eat well.

Lots of fat, moderated protein and fill in the rest with vegetables.

The best thing to do is to try it for yourself. Become your own n=1 experiment and study yourself. Try it for 4-6 weeks and see if you have any improvements.

I do know that adequate fat intake is crucial for proper brain and other hormone functions.

This is most definitely not peer reviewed.

Also, while adequate fat intake is necessary for all sorts of biological functions, this doesn't necessarily mean an incredibly high fat diet (such as ketogenic diets) are better.

dhakiyya

I don't have research, only personal experience. I have PTSD and have had depression as well (not currently, thank God!!) and I can tell you from personal experience that any kind of very low carb or intermittent fasting type eating plan, or otherwise not getting enough healthy carbs and/or calories has a really bad effect on my mental health. I'm not totally sure of the reason why. I keep my macros balanced, i.e 40% carb 30% protein 30% fat, (or 35/35/30 sometimes) and I'm fine on that. Note that I don't eat as much carbohydrate as the typical western diet, I avoid excessive amounts of any carbohydrate but there is a minimal level of carbohydrate intake that I just can't go below. And also eating too much unhealthy carb is probably just as bad as that leads to unstable blood sugar levels, i.e. too much carbs then a blood sugar crash. Personally, I wouldn't do anything ketogenic, that would be too low carb for me. However that does not mean I'll go to the other extreme and eat tons of carbs either.

Also pay attention to vitamin D and healthy fat in general, that has a big impact on mental health. the whole reason why I stick to balanced macros is to ensure I get a moderate amount of everything that my body needs (I pay a lot of attention to micronutrients too, i.e. trying to eat as wide a variety of natural/clean food as I can). Anything that involves cutting out an entire food group I'd think would probably be bad for me. I definitely wouldn't cut out fat either, or go low fat. I simply ensure that the fats and carbs I eat are good quality healthy ones.

Since following a balanced nutrition plan and working out regularly with heavy weights (i.e. 5-12 reps to failure kind of heavy) and ensuring that I get enough sunlight/daylight, that's improved my mental health a lot. I still have PTSD (seems to refuse to ever go away) but I feel a lot better generally and it's a lot more under control, and I don't currently feel depressed.

Firefox7275

AFAIK you are asking for something that does not exist, there is no body of research on this. There is some published work on stabilising blood sugar levels (GI/ GL) and on certain nutrients (vitamin D, certain minerals, long chain omega-3s) and relieving clinical depression, have you tried something less extreme and with a better scientific foundation first? If you were my client my concern with leaping into ketosis would be these diets can very easily be deficient in certain nutrients, as can the diet/ bloods of someone eating a lot of sugar and refined rubbish.

See what you can find on PubMed
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=depression glycaemic
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=depression nutrition

sharon4219

Not sure if it is totally ketogenic, but I am doing the Atkins diet, I love it! I have lots of energy.

Springfield_Rocks

AFAIK you are asking for something that does not exist, there is no body of research on this. There is some published work on stabilising blood sugar levels (GI/ GL) and on certain nutrients (vitamin D, certain minerals, long chain omega-3s) and relieving clinical depression, have you tried something less extreme and with a better scientific foundation first? If you were my client my concern with leaping into ketosis would be these diets can very easily be deficient in certain nutrients, as can the diet/ bloods of someone eating a lot of sugar and refined rubbish.

See what you can find on PubMed
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=depression glycaemic
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=depression nutrition

thank you !

Springfield_Rocks

I don't have research, only personal experience. I have PTSD and have had depression as well (not currently, thank God!!) and I can tell you from personal experience that any kind of very low carb or intermittent fasting type eating plan, or otherwise not getting enough healthy carbs and/or calories has a really bad effect on my mental health. I'm not totally sure of the reason why. I keep my macros balanced, i.e 40% carb 30% protein 30% fat, (or 35/35/30 sometimes) and I'm fine on that. Note that I don't eat as much carbohydrate as the typical western diet, I avoid excessive amounts of any carbohydrate but there is a minimal level of carbohydrate intake that I just can't go below. And also eating too much unhealthy carb is probably just as bad as that leads to unstable blood sugar levels, i.e. too much carbs then a blood sugar crash. Personally, I wouldn't do anything ketogenic, that would be too low carb for me. However that does not mean I'll go to the other extreme and eat tons of carbs either.

Also pay attention to vitamin D and healthy fat in general, that has a big impact on mental health. the whole reason why I stick to balanced macros is to ensure I get a moderate amount of everything that my body needs (I pay a lot of attention to micronutrients too, i.e. trying to eat as wide a variety of natural/clean food as I can). Anything that involves cutting out an entire food group I'd think would probably be bad for me. I definitely wouldn't cut out fat either, or go low fat. I simply ensure that the fats and carbs I eat are good quality healthy ones.

Since following a balanced nutrition plan and working out regularly with heavy weights (i.e. 5-12 reps to failure kind of heavy) and ensuring that I get enough sunlight/daylight, that's improved my mental health a lot. I still have PTSD (seems to refuse to ever go away) but I feel a lot better generally and it's a lot more under control, and I don't currently feel depressed.

thank you!

Firefox7275

i have read a lot of similar articles. the reason i guess i am wondering is because i had tried a Daniel fast in November which is opposite of ketogenic, no animal products and no refined sugar. I felt absolutley terrible, i lasted about two weeks and i had a mjor mood meltdown. I know it was related to the diet, so I thought I should do the opposite. So that is where i am at.

Depends how you define opposite in this context. As a healthcare professional I'd argue the opposite of an highly restrictive, nutrient deficient diet (like a Daniel fast) is a nutrient dense diet containing a balance of all the food groups, NOT another highly restrictive, nutrient deficient diet (like *some* ketogenics). I'm not surprised you felt awful and had a major meltdown when starving your body.

Springfield_Rocks

i have read a lot of similar articles. the reason i guess i am wondering is because i had tried a Daniel fast in November which is opposite of ketogenic, no animal products and no refined sugar. I felt absolutley terrible, i lasted about two weeks and i had a mjor mood meltdown. I know it was related to the diet, so I thought I should do the opposite. So that is where i am at.

Depends how you define opposite in this context. As a healthcare professional I'd argue the opposite of an highly restrictive, nutrient deficient diet (like a Daniel fast) is a nutrient dense diet containing a balance of all the food groups, NOT another highly restrictive, nutrient deficient diet (like *some* ketogenics). I'm not surprised you felt awful and had a major meltdown when starving your body.

agreed.

i think ketogenic is where the problem is as well. my terminology was misleading. trying to label something.

i was thinking lots of veggies, fruits, meats, healthy fats, goat's milk.

Springfield_Rocks

i need to eliminate wheat, my doctor says i am intolerant to wheat. which is why the whole idea of dropping grains has come to me.

denezy

Not completely related, but I had to comment on the benefits of Vitamin D. I have noticed a major improvement in depression and anxiety after taking a Vitamin D supplement. I take 4,000 - 8,000 IU per day.

Springfield_Rocks

Not completely related, but I had to comment on the benefits of Vitamin D. I have noticed a major improvement in depression and anxiety after taking a Vitamin D supplement. I take 4,000 - 8,000 IU per day.

i have seen this around as well, thanks for posting!

Built_Strong

I follow a Keto/low carb diet because of surgery and I feel better, less depressed and less irritable. Carbs are really bad for me in that they make me VERY sick - I think being sick contributed to the depression.

I dont know of any studies but I do know that prove it but it's worked for me.

And yes, my diary is open - you'll see the only carbs I take in are from nuts, eggs, dairy and lettuce.

Acg67

Oh n=1 examples? Here's one

A Case of the Re-Emergence of Panic and Anxiety Symptoms After Initiation of a High-Protein, Very Low Carbohydrate Diet.

http://psy.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/47/2/178

http://www.ctsi.ucla.edu/education/files/view/training/docs/WadekarCS.pdf

jcolier

Since I started eating Keto / low carb, not only do I have much more energy and don't get the after-lunch-sleepys, I have found that my mood is much better. When I do slip and eat carbs / sugar, I find that I get very depressed. Not depressed because I ate bad, but just depressed about everything.

That's enough to keep me off of sugar and bad carbs!

Springfield_Rocks

Oh n=1 examples? Here's one

A Case of the Re-Emergence of Panic and Anxiety Symptoms After Initiation of a High-Protein, Very Low Carbohydrate Diet.

http://psy.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/47/2/178

http://www.ctsi.ucla.edu/education/files/view/training/docs/WadekarCS.pdf

the power point is not convincing, bases the recommendaiton off of a study of one woman????
and the other link doesn't work. sorry not trying to be rude.

Acg67

Oh n=1 examples? Here's one

A Case of the Re-Emergence of Panic and Anxiety Symptoms After Initiation of a High-Protein, Very Low Carbohydrate Diet.

http://psy.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/47/2/178

http://www.ctsi.ucla.edu/education/files/view/training/docs/WadekarCS.pdf

so only things that back your point of view? No confirmation bias there

the power point is not convincing, bases the recommendaiton off of a study of one woman????
and the other link doesn't work. sorry not trying to be rude.

opalescence

I don't have research, only personal experience. I have PTSD and have had depression as well (not currently, thank God!!) and I can tell you from personal experience that any kind of very low carb or intermittent fasting type eating plan, or otherwise not getting enough healthy carbs and/or calories has a really bad effect on my mental health. I'm not totally sure of the reason why. I keep my macros balanced, i.e 40% carb 30% protein 30% fat, (or 35/35/30 sometimes) and I'm fine on that. Note that I don't eat as much carbohydrate as the typical western diet, I avoid excessive amounts of any carbohydrate but there is a minimal level of carbohydrate intake that I just can't go below. And also eating too much unhealthy carb is probably just as bad as that leads to unstable blood sugar levels, i.e. too much carbs then a blood sugar crash. Personally, I wouldn't do anything ketogenic, that would be too low carb for me. However that does not mean I'll go to the other extreme and eat tons of carbs either.

Also pay attention to vitamin D and healthy fat in general, that has a big impact on mental health. the whole reason why I stick to balanced macros is to ensure I get a moderate amount of everything that my body needs (I pay a lot of attention to micronutrients too, i.e. trying to eat as wide a variety of natural/clean food as I can). Anything that involves cutting out an entire food group I'd think would probably be bad for me. I definitely wouldn't cut out fat either, or go low fat. I simply ensure that the fats and carbs I eat are good quality healthy ones.

Since following a balanced nutrition plan and working out regularly with heavy weights (i.e. 5-12 reps to failure kind of heavy) and ensuring that I get enough sunlight/daylight, that's improved my mental health a lot. I still have PTSD (seems to refuse to ever go away) but I feel a lot better generally and it's a lot more under control, and I don't currently feel depressed.

more or less ^^ this.

dhakiyya

Oh n=1 examples? Here's one

A Case of the Re-Emergence of Panic and Anxiety Symptoms After Initiation of a High-Protein, Very Low Carbohydrate Diet.

http://psy.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/47/2/178

http://www.ctsi.ucla.edu/education/files/view/training/docs/WadekarCS.pdf

the power point is not convincing, bases the recommendaiton off of a study of one woman????
and the other link doesn't work. sorry not trying to be rude.

what the powerpoint describes is pretty much the same as what happens to me if I go on a too low carbohydrate diet or attempt to do intermittent fasting. I have PTSD rather than GAD, but they're both anxiety disorders. I know a couple of other people with PTSD who say the same, although not in the context of dieting, just in the context of accidentally missing meals or going through a phase of not eating enough for whatever reason. I didn't know any biochemical explanation for this, but the one in the power point seems quite reasonable, and IMO anyone who has an anxiety disorder ought to be aware that this is a risk. So IMO an n=1 study is very relevent. If it happened to one person who suffers from an anxiety disorder, it could happen to someone else with an anxiety disorder, even if it doesn't happen to everyone who has one. The study advises caution with low carb diets, it doesn't say "no-one with an anxiety disorder should ever do a low carb diet" - so I agree with that basically, i.e. proceed with caution which means if it's making anxiety disorder symptoms worse, then start eating healthy carbs again. If someone who has an anxiety disorder is on a low carb diet and it's helping them lose fat and it's not making the anxiety worse, then no reason for them to give it up.

Springfield_Rocks

Oh n=1 examples? Here's one

A Case of the Re-Emergence of Panic and Anxiety Symptoms After Initiation of a High-Protein, Very Low Carbohydrate Diet.

http://psy.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/47/2/178

http://www.ctsi.ucla.edu/education/files/view/training/docs/WadekarCS.pdf

the power point is not convincing, bases the recommendaiton off of a study of one woman????
and the other link doesn't work. sorry not trying to be rude.

what the powerpoint describes is pretty much the same as what happens to me if I go on a too low carbohydrate diet or attempt to do intermittent fasting. I have PTSD rather than GAD, but they're both anxiety disorders. I know a couple of other people with PTSD who say the same, although not in the context of dieting, just in the context of accidentally missing meals or going through a phase of not eating enough for whatever reason. I didn't know any biochemical explanation for this, but the one in the power point seems quite reasonable, and IMO anyone who has an anxiety disorder ought to be aware that this is a risk. So IMO an n=1 study is very relevent. If it happened to one person who suffers from an anxiety disorder, it could happen to someone else with an anxiety disorder, even if it doesn't happen to everyone who has one. The study advises caution with low carb diets, it doesn't say "no-one with an anxiety disorder should ever do a low carb diet" - so I agree with that basically, i.e. proceed with caution which means if it's making anxiety disorder symptoms worse, then start eating healthy carbs again. If someone who has an anxiety disorder is on a low carb diet and it's helping them lose fat and it's not making the anxiety worse, then no reason for them to give it up.

thank you :-)

MaraDiaz

Here is my n=1 peer reviewed study, conducted and studied by ME and ME alone.

I find that the High Fat / Low Carb ketogenic approach tremendously helps me with depression symptoms. I have lots of energy and actually feel like working out at the gym. I sleep better and I eat well.

Lots of fat, moderated protein and fill in the rest with vegetables.

The best thing to do is to try it for yourself. Become your own n=1 experiment and study yourself. Try it for 4-6 weeks and see if you have any improvements.

I do know that adequate fat intake is crucial for proper brain and other hormone functions.

I have had much the same experience although working out was rough at first.

I have no idea if my moods are better due to ketosis alone or to ketosis giving me the energy to go work out, which is a known mood enhancer.

However my depression is not considered severe. In fact, it's sub-clinical, the doctor refused to diagnose me with it and instead opted for social phobia or anxiety or whatever they're calling it this week.

From everything I've read severe depression is completely different from mild depression and may respond to different things. Anything you decide to do probably should be decided with the advice of an expert who is familiar with your symptoms.

Edit: I don't think I used the word sub clinical right. Oh well.