Weights vs. Cardio for fat loss...
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bump0
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While I agree that these methods are not 100% accurate, no other method short of autopsy is 100% accurate either. And I really don't understand how strength can be maintained while losing muscle, particularly in the absence of a resistance training program.Before I used a body fat impedence scale. After I used calipers. Also, I look in the mirror and compare myself to pictures. The profile pic shown is the only one I have available that may give some idea.
I also have gone to the gym and checked how much I could lift on various exercises and my strength is the same from any other time in my life when I have not been actively lifting.
So, you do not have any accurate measures, especially as you were using difference estimation methods (both of which have a high degree of inaccuracy) at the beginning and the end.
And strength =/= muscle gain/loss.0 -
Hey as a Personal Trainer I will tell you that cardio is great , and the more muscle you build the more calories you can burn in your cardio workouts. Plus you won't get big if you stay with cardio , and put in weights about once a week . Abs your really should do them every other day is ideal .0
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While I agree that these methods are not 100% accurate, no other method short of autopsy is 100% accurate either. And I really don't understand how strength can be maintained while losing muscle, particularly in the absence of a resistance training program.Before I used a body fat impedence scale. After I used calipers. Also, I look in the mirror and compare myself to pictures. The profile pic shown is the only one I have available that may give some idea.
I also have gone to the gym and checked how much I could lift on various exercises and my strength is the same from any other time in my life when I have not been actively lifting.
So, you do not have any accurate measures, especially as you were using difference estimation methods (both of which have a high degree of inaccuracy) at the beginning and the end.
And strength =/= muscle gain/loss.
In the absence of a resistance training program, how are you measuring change in strength?0 -
While I agree that these methods are not 100% accurate, no other method short of autopsy is 100% accurate either. And I really don't understand how strength can be maintained while losing muscle, particularly in the absence of a resistance training program.Before I used a body fat impedence scale. After I used calipers. Also, I look in the mirror and compare myself to pictures. The profile pic shown is the only one I have available that may give some idea.
I also have gone to the gym and checked how much I could lift on various exercises and my strength is the same from any other time in my life when I have not been actively lifting.
So, you do not have any accurate measures, especially as you were using difference estimation methods (both of which have a high degree of inaccuracy) at the beginning and the end.
And strength =/= muscle gain/loss.
In the absence of a resistance training program, how are you measuring change in strength?
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While I agree that these methods are not 100% accurate, no other method short of autopsy is 100% accurate either. And I really don't understand how strength can be maintained while losing muscle, particularly in the absence of a resistance training program.Before I used a body fat impedence scale. After I used calipers. Also, I look in the mirror and compare myself to pictures. The profile pic shown is the only one I have available that may give some idea.
I also have gone to the gym and checked how much I could lift on various exercises and my strength is the same from any other time in my life when I have not been actively lifting.
So, you do not have any accurate measures, especially as you were using difference estimation methods (both of which have a high degree of inaccuracy) at the beginning and the end.
And strength =/= muscle gain/loss.
Strength can be maintained to a degree (obviously there are limits). You did not lose an extreme amount of weight (not a dig you just did not have much to lose) so you would not have lost a significant amount of LBM as a result, especially if you had reasonable deficits..
You used two of the worse methods from an accuracy perspective and you used different methods each time so you cannot say you did not lose LBM.0 -
Hey as a Personal Trainer I will tell you that cardio is great , and the more muscle you build the more calories you can burn in your cardio workouts. Plus you won't get big if you stay with cardio , and put in weights about once a week . Abs your really should do them every other day is ideal .
So, you are saying you will maintain LBM on a deficit with strength training once a week? How are you going to get big if you are a female, especially at a caloric deficit, lifting weights?0 -
Hey as a Personal Trainer I will tell you that cardio is great , and the more muscle you build the more calories you can burn in your cardio workouts. Plus you won't get big if you stay with cardio , and put in weights about once a week . Abs your really should do them every other day is ideal .
So, you are saying you will maintain LBM on a deficit with strength training once a week? How are you going to get big if you are a female, especially at a caloric deficit, lifting weights?
Why are personal trainers almost always douchecanoes? I can't believe people pay them.0 -
Why does everyone seem to think cardio is not also muscle building? My legs are solid muscle from running, any weight bearing excercise is also building your muscles, strengthening your bones, AND improving your heart. Yes, you need to do something for the top half also, but just wanted to state cardio and muscle building are not necessarily 2 different things.0
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Why does everyone seem to think cardio is not also muscle building? My legs are solid muscle from running, any weight bearing excercise is also building your muscles, strengthening your bones, AND improving your heart. Yes, you need to do something for the top half also, but just wanted to state cardio and muscle building are not necessarily 2 different things.
You will probably get some benefit initially, but beyond that, you're typically not providing progressive resistance.0 -
Oh wow. you're going to get a LOT of different responses here.....
All I'm going to say is this:
When you lift weights you add muscle (lean body mass). When you add muscle, your body burns more calories when you are in a sedentary state (laying around).
Cardio is great for your heart and lungs. But too much cardio and not enough balance with resistance training CAN cause muscle loss. And we go back to the above statement about how more muscle burns more calories in your everyday life; meaning less muscle means you burn less calories in your everyday life.
This effect, while often trumpeted, especially by women for women, is negligible. Usually when guys mention it, it is fat guys really thin guys that say it. Rarely will you see muscled guys touting the metabolism raising virtues of more muscles. Because they all know the truth, the effect is tiny, almost immeasurable.
Most guys fail to see much in the way of a metabolic rise bulking cycle to bulking cycle, while putting on noticable amounts of muscle. The 5 cal/day/lb value out there is about right in my experience. 100 cal/day is a drop in the bucket for the most part, a piece of bread, yet it would take somewhere in the area of 20 lbs of muscle gain to achieve, an amount that very few women could stomach due to the "bulkyness".0 -
Why does everyone seem to think cardio is not also muscle building? My legs are solid muscle from running, any weight bearing excercise is also building your muscles, strengthening your bones, AND improving your heart. Yes, you need to do something for the top half also, but just wanted to state cardio and muscle building are not necessarily 2 different things.
Mostly because of the studies that show a loss of lean body mass with a caloric deficit and cardio only. If you are not in a calorie deficit, running or other forms of cardio may add some muscle. The initial growth will probably slow way down after a very short time.0 -
Uhhh. Why does this always have to be a verses thing. Do both. I get the best results when I do both.
Also, Isn't all muscle inherently "lean"?0 -
This initial growth of any muscle slows way down after a short time, including weight lifting. You don't need to grow, you need to maintain muscle.Why does everyone seem to think cardio is not also muscle building? My legs are solid muscle from running, any weight bearing excercise is also building your muscles, strengthening your bones, AND improving your heart. Yes, you need to do something for the top half also, but just wanted to state cardio and muscle building are not necessarily 2 different things.
Mostly because of the studies that show a loss of lean body mass with a caloric deficit and cardio only. If you are not in a calorie deficit, running or other forms of cardio may add some muscle. The initial growth will probably slow way down after a very short time.0 -
Why does everyone seem to think cardio is not also muscle building? My legs are solid muscle from running, any weight bearing excercise is also building your muscles, strengthening your bones, AND improving your heart. Yes, you need to do something for the top half also, but just wanted to state cardio and muscle building are not necessarily 2 different things.
Mostly because of the studies that show a loss of lean body mass with a caloric deficit and cardio only. If you are not in a calorie deficit, running or other forms of cardio may add some muscle. The initial growth will probably slow way down after a very short time.
Here is one of the many studies. The subjects were on a VLCD which is not ideal for FFM preservation but were obese, which makes FFM preservation at a VLCD less problematic. They were untrained individuals and so would have got some 'newbie gains' as well.
http://www.jacn.org/content/18/2/115.full
"In summary, the addition of high volume aggressive resistance training to a VLCD was associated with a significant weight loss while preserving LBW and RMR. The preservation of LBW and RMR during the consumption of a VLCD did not occur with a standard treatment control aerobic training program. These results indicate that high volume resistance training may be beneficial for patients who use a VLCD to lose large amounts of weight at least for periods up to 12 weeks. Future clinical studies need to determine its efficacy in long term weight loss programs and the maintenance of this weight loss for extended periods of time."0 -
This initial growth of any muscle slows way down after a short time, including weight lifting. You don't need to grow, you need to maintain muscle.Why does everyone seem to think cardio is not also muscle building? My legs are solid muscle from running, any weight bearing excercise is also building your muscles, strengthening your bones, AND improving your heart. Yes, you need to do something for the top half also, but just wanted to state cardio and muscle building are not necessarily 2 different things.
Mostly because of the studies that show a loss of lean body mass with a caloric deficit and cardio only. If you are not in a calorie deficit, running or other forms of cardio may add some muscle. The initial growth will probably slow way down after a very short time.
If your goal is to maintain then you are correct but you said cardio is also muscle building. I agreed with you that it can be in the beginning but to continue that growth additional resistance would be required. This is relatively easy to do with resistance training and harder to do with cardio.
The studies show that cardio alone does not maintain lean body weight while in a caloric deficit.0 -
The biggest thing is I want to put on muscle so I look good after I lose the fat. Not just be skinny. Lifting weights is essential for my goals. It depends on your goal. Cardio helps your body take off fat and put on muscle as well so its not best to stick to just one.0
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My only point was they are not 2 different things. And this doesn't say what they did for cardio. Obviously running is much more weight bearing (and muscle forming) than cycling or eliptical would be. I repeat, I don't do any strength training for my legs, and they are solid muscle, so cardio can be a muscle forming activity.Why does everyone seem to think cardio is not also muscle building? My legs are solid muscle from running, any weight bearing excercise is also building your muscles, strengthening your bones, AND improving your heart. Yes, you need to do something for the top half also, but just wanted to state cardio and muscle building are not necessarily 2 different things.
Mostly because of the studies that show a loss of lean body mass with a caloric deficit and cardio only. If you are not in a calorie deficit, running or other forms of cardio may add some muscle. The initial growth will probably slow way down after a very short time.
Here is one of the many studies. The subjects were on a VLCD which is not ideal for FFM preservation but were obese, which makes FFM preservation at a VLCD less problematic. They were untrained individuals and so would have got some 'newbie gains' as well.
http://www.jacn.org/content/18/2/115.full
"In summary, the addition of high volume aggressive resistance training to a VLCD was associated with a significant weight loss while preserving LBW and RMR. The preservation of LBW and RMR during the consumption of a VLCD did not occur with a standard treatment control aerobic training program. These results indicate that high volume resistance training may be beneficial for patients who use a VLCD to lose large amounts of weight at least for periods up to 12 weeks. Future clinical studies need to determine its efficacy in long term weight loss programs and the maintenance of this weight loss for extended periods of time."
Nuff said. 0 -
My only point was they are not 2 different things. And this doesn't say what they did for cardio. Obviously running is much more weight bearing (and muscle forming) than cycling or eliptical would be. I repeat, I don't do any strength training for my legs, and they are solid muscle, so cardio can be a muscle forming activity.Why does everyone seem to think cardio is not also muscle building? My legs are solid muscle from running, any weight bearing excercise is also building your muscles, strengthening your bones, AND improving your heart. Yes, you need to do something for the top half also, but just wanted to state cardio and muscle building are not necessarily 2 different things.
Mostly because of the studies that show a loss of lean body mass with a caloric deficit and cardio only. If you are not in a calorie deficit, running or other forms of cardio may add some muscle. The initial growth will probably slow way down after a very short time.
Here is one of the many studies. The subjects were on a VLCD which is not ideal for FFM preservation but were obese, which makes FFM preservation at a VLCD less problematic. They were untrained individuals and so would have got some 'newbie gains' as well.
http://www.jacn.org/content/18/2/115.full
"In summary, the addition of high volume aggressive resistance training to a VLCD was associated with a significant weight loss while preserving LBW and RMR. The preservation of LBW and RMR during the consumption of a VLCD did not occur with a standard treatment control aerobic training program. These results indicate that high volume resistance training may be beneficial for patients who use a VLCD to lose large amounts of weight at least for periods up to 12 weeks. Future clinical studies need to determine its efficacy in long term weight loss programs and the maintenance of this weight loss for extended periods of time." Nuff said.
You are not hearing what people are saying. Also, your initial post was about cardio - not running specifically.0 -
At minimum, lift weights and eat at a deficit. No cardio necessary. Lifting weights ensures that you'll retain your muscle mass while you're losing weight.
It's unlikely that you'll actually gain any muscle while eating at a calorie deficit, because your body needs a calorie surplus to do that, but your muscles will start to look more defined as you lose weight and the fat peels off. However, sometimes, because of voodoo magic, you can get what we call "newbie gains," i.e. you can lose fat and gain muscle at the same time. Sadly, that doesn't last very long.
If you're into cardio, then go ahead. It burns some calories and can be good for your heart. It's not a necessary part of the fat loss equation, however! Don't feel you have to do it.
I got in shape eating at a deficit and doing a full-body weight lifting routine 3x/week. I occasionally use the treadmill to do some sprints, but that's about it.
I want to bump up this answer bc it's exactly what I wanted to say.0 -
I went to the gym and lifted several times over a two year period to see if there was any loss of strength. Since these times were separated by months it was not a program. No loss of strength in the upper body as compared to other times in my life when not resistance training. No gain in strength either as expected.
While I agree that these methods are not 100% accurate, no other method short of autopsy is 100% accurate either. And I really don't understand how strength can be maintained while losing muscle, particularly in the absence of a resistance training program.Before I used a body fat impedence scale. After I used calipers. Also, I look in the mirror and compare myself to pictures. The profile pic shown is the only one I have available that may give some idea.
I also have gone to the gym and checked how much I could lift on various exercises and my strength is the same from any other time in my life when I have not been actively lifting.
So, you do not have any accurate measures, especially as you were using difference estimation methods (both of which have a high degree of inaccuracy) at the beginning and the end.
And strength =/= muscle gain/loss.
In the absence of a resistance training program, how are you measuring change in strength?0 -
Have you tracked measurements for your thighs/calves over time to see if they have increased in muscular size? Everybody has leg muscles - losing the fat that was formerly covering them would give the appearance of "solid muscle", so I don't doubt your contention there. The question is whether running has caused hypertrophy (increase in muscle size).....I repeat, I don't do any strength training for my legs, and they are solid muscle, so cardio can be a muscle forming activity...0 -
So if you eat less than 800 cal a day you will lose LBM without resistance training. That is not the same as what was being said earlier in this thread, that fat loss will always be accompanied by muscle loss. Personally, no matter what the study says I have a hard time believing anyone is going to add lean body mass on 800 cal a day which is what would be required to maintain RMR while losing fat.Why does everyone seem to think cardio is not also muscle building? My legs are solid muscle from running, any weight bearing excercise is also building your muscles, strengthening your bones, AND improving your heart. Yes, you need to do something for the top half also, but just wanted to state cardio and muscle building are not necessarily 2 different things.
Mostly because of the studies that show a loss of lean body mass with a caloric deficit and cardio only. If you are not in a calorie deficit, running or other forms of cardio may add some muscle. The initial growth will probably slow way down after a very short time.
Here is one of the many studies. The subjects were on a VLCD which is not ideal for FFM preservation but were obese, which makes FFM preservation at a VLCD less problematic. They were untrained individuals and so would have got some 'newbie gains' as well.
http://www.jacn.org/content/18/2/115.full
"In summary, the addition of high volume aggressive resistance training to a VLCD was associated with a significant weight loss while preserving LBW and RMR. The preservation of LBW and RMR during the consumption of a VLCD did not occur with a standard treatment control aerobic training program. These results indicate that high volume resistance training may be beneficial for patients who use a VLCD to lose large amounts of weight at least for periods up to 12 weeks. Future clinical studies need to determine its efficacy in long term weight loss programs and the maintenance of this weight loss for extended periods of time."
For example a person might lose 100 lbs of fat on a 800 cal a day diet. In order to maintain RMR that person would at the same time have to gain 40 lbs of muscle. Is that possible on a 800 cal a day diet? No.0 -
BOTH YOU SHOULD DO BOTH!!!!
.. and stretch, and eat clean .... its all about balance, and moderation
// sorry for shouting //0 -
So much good advice! bump for later.0
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That's not the way it works. You can gain strength, but you cannot gain muscle on a calorie deficit. Basically you'd have to gain weight and lose again if you wanted muscle. That's the situation I'm in right now. Lost all the weight, became thin, and was still squishy. Up 10 pounds now, started lifting, feeling great. I feel slimmer, though it's probably all in my head lol.But should I start weights in the beginning to gain muscle when I still need to lose the fat? I feel like I should start to lose first then add in weights. Idk though, I am kind of new to this and just wondering.0 -
Why does everyone seem to think cardio is not also muscle building? My legs are solid muscle from running, any weight bearing excercise is also building your muscles, strengthening your bones, AND improving your heart. Yes, you need to do something for the top half also, but just wanted to state cardio and muscle building are not necessarily 2 different things.0
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This is all opinion and could contain some BS:
It wouldn't surprise me if you were to take someone straight off the couch and have them start running, and they were to show some leg hypertrophy initially. I've never actually looked at research pertaining to this but logically to me it makes some sense.
But I don't see how you're going to maintain continuous adaptations necessary to continue hypertrophy if you're not progressively applying a hypertrophy inducing stress (steady-state cardio at low or medium intensity for example, I would expect minimal gains if any, and only initially).
For example, if you go to the gym and start lifting, you generally get bigger muscles as you adapt to the training stress. But if you do the same lifts and loading for a period of time, those adaptations stop at some point because you've adapted to the training stress.
With weight training, you can increase load to create new demands. I'm not aware of a convenient way to do this with cardio such that you're inducing hypertrophy (certainly you can, and probably should, increase training demands with cardio but are they hypertrophy related?). And if there is a way, can you do it continually?
I'm going to suspect that it's not practical to do so or at the very least, it's atypical of most methods of cardio.
More opinion: wouldn't surprise me if explosive type of cardio like sprinting had a greater hypertrophic training stress.0 -
So I have a simple question, in your experience, which works better?
Cardio, weight training, or something else?
Just tell me your experience That would be wonderful! Thanks in advance!
In my experience and results - it goes like this:
Diet: 33.33%
Weighs: 33.33%
Cardio: 33.33%
So basically you need to do all three equally. Once I incorporated that I saw amazing results. Just remember they are all equally important.0 -
So I have a simple question, in your experience, which works better?
Cardio, weight training, or something else?
Just tell me your experience That would be wonderful! Thanks in advance!
I love cardio! Though unfortunately it wont have the same effect as weight training :-(. In fact if you do hours of cardio and no weight training and lose weight you may end up looking really flabby skinny by the end. Muscles burn more calories at rest and make you look dynamite when your body sheds its fat! Keep cardio short and intense and make sure to weight train 2 to 3 times a week. What you eat is numero uno though with weight loss. 80% in the kitchen, 20% in the gym.0
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