Eat More Calories to Gain Muscle?

vnovit

Hi everyone,

I'm a bit confused about something and I'd like to run it by you. When I enter my stats into: http://scoobysworkshop.com/accurate-calorie-calculator/#results I am told that I need to eat approx 1500 cals to lose 25% body weight (I normally put desk job bc I eat back my workout calories). But when I entered to gain muscle, I was bumped to 2200 cals.

I am looking to lose the fat, and gain lean muscle. Which calorie intake should I follow??? It's a bit confusing when you want to do both. I am 179 cm (5"10) and 180 lbs.

Would really love some input!

kristen6022

To gain muscle you need to eat at calorie surplus, which would mean you'd gain fat and muscle together. At a calorie deficient you'll lose fat and keep the muscle you have.

So, you need to decide what's more important, gaining muscle or losing fat. That's why you'll hear of guys that go on a bulk/cut routine.

vnovit

So sadly I cannot do both,....

ahviendha

I've heard from weight lifters that you have 2 choices in gaining muscle. Gain muscle & fat at the same time, then cut calories to lose the fat while keeping muscle. This is a faster way to gain muscle, but then you need to deprive yourself during the cut phase. Or, gain pure muscle at a calorie surplus. This is much more difficult, and requires extremely clean eating. It also takes longer.

I hope someone who actually weight lifts stumbles upon your question, but these responses should get you started!

Also some calculators have the "gain muscle, lose fat" option. Scooby's does have that option. Try recalculating. Good luck!

lacurandera1

Actually, at a calorie deficit, you will LOSE some lean body mass and muscle as well as fat. This is where strength training comes in. Eat at a modest deficit. Start a weight training program and eat at a modest surplus on days you lift. That way you'll preserve a majority of LBM while losing fat. i'm in the same position as you and I'm not looking to lose any more weight necessarily. It's a weird/hard position to be in and a constant push and pull.

alexdrost

This is true, you CANNOT do both. I will repost a previous post regarding mass gaining.

PREVIOUS POST I MADE:

One thing you must consider is your ultimate goal. If you are currently still in a stage of weight loss, you should complete full body lifts at a higher rep and lower weight, but don't expect to see muscle growth. The reason for lifting is to ensure your body does not cannibalize all your muscle. If you want to put on mass, you must be ready to put on fat. I personally have gone through these stages, I started in Feb of 2012 at 245lbs (5' 11"). I decided enough was enough and became very serious about my eating and exercise. From Feb to May I dropped down to 180lbs. I then increased my kcal intake and became a very active cyclist. I unintentionally dropped to 175lbs. Around August of 2012 I took up light lifting in an effort to improve my cycling. I was told by a very close friend that I look great from all the weight I loss, but that I also resembled a "twig". This motivated me to mass. After many hours of research I started on an intense supplement and lifting plan.

Details of my Plan:

Diet: 3500+ kcal a day
Protein: 300+ grams a day
Healthy carbs, min sugar high fiber

Cardio: NONE, Notta, NOTHING! Yes, absolutely no cardio from September through December of 2012. This was a huge change and was hard to put the bike down, but I did it in an effort to mass.

Lift: I followed a strict 5 day a week lifting routine that would leave me dead after about an hour in the gym. I would lift in the 4-6 rep range for 3 sets. The key was to ensure that you burn out after EVERY lift, this means lift to fail. If you can rep out another you did not have enough weight.

While I will not take the time to list ALL my lifts, here were some of the most important ones.

Lift 8 weeks on, 1 week break then 8 weeks on. DONT EVERY MISS A LIFT; DONT EVER DO AN EXTRA LIFT

Bench (free bar and dumb bells)
Squat (these suck)
Dead lift (best full body lift)
Weighted Dips
Military Shoulder Press (Dumb Bells)
Leg Presses (EXTREMELY HIGH WEIGHT - as of now I am repping out around 750lbs)
Calf Raises

It is essentially to lift your lower body, regardless of your goals. This is because when you lift such a large muscle group your body will produce a massive amount of growth hormones, these will spur growth in your entire body.

Supplements: (I use all Optimal Nutrition Products, they are the best)
Whey: 3 scoops a day (upon waking, pre and post workout)
Micronized Creatine: with every serving of Whey (this will aid recovery and give you an extra pump)
Glutamine: with every serving of Whey and before bed. This is the most abundant amino acid (BCAA) in your body. Taking this supp work wonders, it will increase recovery to about 36 hours, promote growth through protein synthesis, and prevent muscle cannibalism.
Fish oil: 5 a day, 2AM 1 mid day, 2PM
C4 pre Workout
Casein Protein: this is a very slow digesting protein, take it right before bed so give your body nutrients all night long.
Animal Pak: 1 a day in the AM
Now I am 23 years old and did not use a T-booster, but if you are older, you might want to.

Rest: LOTS OF IT 8-10 hours a night, muscles are torn in the gym and grown in the bed.

Okay, I know that was a lot of info, but let me tell you about my results.

I just ended my 16 weeks session. I now weight 200lbs. Yes, 25lbs of body weight added, and yes SOME of it is fat. But I am also bigger than I have ever been. I would be willing to say that 17-19lbs of the weight is muscle. I get comments all the time of how big I look and I feel amazing. I have more strength that I have ever had. I am now in a cutting stage and cant wait for summer to show off my new sexy muscles.

I hope this helps, let me know if you have any questions. Best of luck to you in your journey. YOU CAN DO IT!

avakathryn

Agreed. It's important to lose a certain amount of body fat before you attempt to build any great deal of lean muscle mass. You need to feed your muscles in order for them to grow, which inevitably means you'll end up putting on a bit of fat in the process. While strength training is important for weight loss, specific programs that encourage muscle growth (heavy weight, fewer reps) should be avoided until you have lost a good deal of body fat.

I made the mistake of trying to do both at once (lose fat and gain muscle) and ended up putting on ten pounds in 6 weeks. Granted it was fat AND muscle, but when I wasn't at my goal weight for fat loss to begin with it was very discouraging. I'm going to try and lose about 20 pounds of fat (I'm currently 5'4" and 160 pounds) before I even attempt the muscle building program again!

vnovit

Thanks sooo much! I am definitely looking to lose the weight I've gained in recent years, but I also want lean muscle. I heard that we all have muscle underneath the fat, we just need to lose the fat.. but somehow I find that hard to believe

erickirb

So sadly I cannot do both,....

If you are new to strength training you may gain a small amount of muscle at first (Newbie gains), or if you are returning to strength training after a prolonged break from it. And someone with a lot to lose can gain a little more while in a deficit than someone with less to lose.

DopeItUp

So sadly I cannot do both,....

Correct.

kristen6022

Nope. But eating at a deficient and lifting heavy will tone your muscles so you look leaner, while the fat melts off. So, I would just keep doing what you are doing until you hit your goal then reassess.

Starting a heavy lifting routine, like Stronglifts 5x5 and NROFL for women will help tone you up while you lose the fat though, way better than just straight cardio.

cmcollins001

IF you are just starting out with weight training, you will gain some lean muscle while eating at a deficit and losing fat. This is normally called newbie gains by most. To make real lbm gains, you're going to have to eat at a surplus.

lacurandera1

While strength training is important for weight loss, specific programs that encourage muscle growth (heavy weight, fewer reps) should be avoided until you have lost a good deal of body fat.

I disagree. Idk what your goals or stats are bc your profile is pretty empty but strength training is not a bad idea at any stage of the game. I wish I had been more serious about it when I started.

Shock_Wave

This is true, you CANNOT do both. I will repost a previous post regarding mass gaining.

So sadly I cannot do both,....

Correct.

^I call BS right here... You can with riods..


:laugh:

vnovit

This is true, you CANNOT do both. I will repost a previous post regarding mass gaining.

PREVIOUS POST I MADE:

One thing you must consider is your ultimate goal. If you are currently still in a stage of weight loss, you should complete full body lifts at a higher rep and lower weight, but don't expect to see muscle growth. The reason for lifting is to ensure your body does not cannibalize all your muscle. If you want to put on mass, you must be ready to put on fat. I personally have gone through these stages, I started in Feb of 2012 at 245lbs (5' 11"). I decided enough was enough and became very serious about my eating and exercise. From Feb to May I dropped down to 180lbs. I then increased my kcal intake and became a very active cyclist. I unintentionally dropped to 175lbs. Around August of 2012 I took up light lifting in an effort to improve my cycling. I was told by a very close friend that I look great from all the weight I loss, but that I also resembled a "twig". This motivated me to mass. After many hours of research I started on an intense supplement and lifting plan.

Details of my Plan:

Diet: 3500+ kcal a day
Protein: 300+ grams a day
Healthy carbs, min sugar high fiber

Cardio: NONE, Notta, NOTHING! Yes, absolutely no cardio from September through December of 2012. This was a huge change and was hard to put the bike down, but I did it in an effort to mass.

Lift: I followed a strict 5 day a week lifting routine that would leave me dead after about an hour in the gym. I would lift in the 4-6 rep range for 3 sets. The key was to ensure that you burn out after EVERY lift, this means lift to fail. If you can rep out another you did not have enough weight.

While I will not take the time to list ALL my lifts, here were some of the most important ones.

Lift 8 weeks on, 1 week break then 8 weeks on. DONT EVERY MISS A LIFT; DONT EVER DO AN EXTRA LIFT

Bench (free bar and dumb bells)
Squat (these suck)
Dead lift (best full body lift)
Weighted Dips
Military Shoulder Press (Dumb Bells)
Leg Presses (EXTREMELY HIGH WEIGHT - as of now I am repping out around 750lbs)
Calf Raises

It is essentially to lift your lower body, regardless of your goals. This is because when you lift such a large muscle group your body will produce a massive amount of growth hormones, these will spur growth in your entire body.

Supplements: (I use all Optimal Nutrition Products, they are the best)
Whey: 3 scoops a day (upon waking, pre and post workout)
Micronized Creatine: with every serving of Whey (this will aid recovery and give you an extra pump)
Glutamine: with every serving of Whey and before bed. This is the most abundant amino acid (BCAA) in your body. Taking this supp work wonders, it will increase recovery to about 36 hours, promote growth through protein synthesis, and prevent muscle cannibalism.
Fish oil: 5 a day, 2AM 1 mid day, 2PM
C4 pre Workout
Casein Protein: this is a very slow digesting protein, take it right before bed so give your body nutrients all night long.
Animal Pak: 1 a day in the AM
Now I am 23 years old and did not use a T-booster, but if you are older, you might want to.

Rest: LOTS OF IT 8-10 hours a night, muscles are torn in the gym and grown in the bed.

Okay, I know that was a lot of info, but let me tell you about my results.

I just ended my 16 weeks session. I now weight 200lbs. Yes, 25lbs of body weight added, and yes SOME of it is fat. But I am also bigger than I have ever been. I would be willing to say that 17-19lbs of the weight is muscle. I get comments all the time of how big I look and I feel amazing. I have more strength that I have ever had. I am now in a cutting stage and cant wait for summer to show off my new sexy muscles.

I hope this helps, let me know if you have any questions. Best of luck to you in your journey. YOU CAN DO IT!

I know alll about this! When I was training for policing, I ate everything in site, gained a ton of muscle.. and a ton of fat. I was stronger than I have ever been, but I definitely was larger. So now I want lean muscle, low fat..


From what I've read, and thank you everyone, I will focus on the weight loss with light weight training and once I reach my goal, I guess I'll have to increase my calorie intake

vnovit

So sadly I cannot do both,....

Correct.

^I call BS right here... You can with riods..


:laugh:

HAHAHA absolutely not!

Chief_Rocka

This is true, you CANNOT do both. I will repost a previous post regarding mass gaining.

It doesn't get any better, no matter how many times you post it.

SideSteel

Hi everyone,

I'm a bit confused about something and I'd like to run it by you. When I enter my stats into: http://scoobysworkshop.com/accurate-calorie-calculator/#results I am told that I need to eat approx 1500 cals to lose 25% body weight (I normally put desk job bc I eat back my workout calories). But when I entered to gain muscle, I was bumped to 2200 cals.

I am looking to lose the fat, and gain lean muscle. Which calorie intake should I follow??? It's a bit confusing when you want to do both. I am 179 cm (5"10) and 180 lbs.

Would really love some input!

There is some context and clarification required here before you get too many black-and-white statements.
New and overweight beginners who begin a resistance training program can gain muscle while in a caloric deficit. It's not going to be a lot of muscle, and you're not going to keep gaining it for years, but it's possible (please note the context as this is one of the limited circumstances under which small gains in muscle can occur).

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html

Next, you need to consider that as you diet down (lose mass), it is likely that some portion of the weight you lose with come from a combination of fat mass and fat free mass (some of this may be skeletal muscle). You want to minimize the amount of muscle loss while dieting, and lifting weights will prevent this to large extent.

(Conversely, when you eat in a caloric surplus you gain a combination of fat mass and fat free mass and your goal, when attempting to gain muscle, is to minimize the fat gain).

Next, an additional consideration is that as you lose fat and retain muscle, you will give the appearance of having gained muscle as you will look leaner and more fit.

Given your stats, you should be eating at a caloric deficit to reduce overall body mass/weight. You should use some resistance training as a part of your program to minimize the loss of muscle and possibly gain a bit of muscle in the short term.

vnovit

IF you are just starting out with weight training, you will gain some lean muscle while eating at a deficit and losing fat. This is normally called newbie gains by most. To make real lbm gains, you're going to have to eat at a surplus.

Meaning I will gain weight back.. gotcha.. there's no way around this I realized.

firstsip

While strength training is important for weight loss, specific programs that encourage muscle growth (heavy weight, fewer reps) should be avoided until you have lost a good deal of body fat.

I disagree. Idk what your goals or stats are bc your profile is pretty empty but strength training is not a bad idea at any stage of the game. I wish I had been more serious about it when I started.

This. That's why there's so much out there on body recomposition... it is very possibly to strengthen muscle while losing fat, which can completely change how a body looks. That's why so many people (including myself) who lift heavy while on some sort of deficit end up in lower sizes at a higher weight; gaining muscle is something I'd consider once I get to my goal body fat %.

vnovit

Hi everyone,

I'm a bit confused about something and I'd like to run it by you. When I enter my stats into: http://scoobysworkshop.com/accurate-calorie-calculator/#results I am told that I need to eat approx 1500 cals to lose 25% body weight (I normally put desk job bc I eat back my workout calories). But when I entered to gain muscle, I was bumped to 2200 cals.

I am looking to lose the fat, and gain lean muscle. Which calorie intake should I follow??? It's a bit confusing when you want to do both. I am 179 cm (5"10) and 180 lbs.

Would really love some input!

There is some context and clarification required here before you get too many black-and-white statements.
New and overweight beginners who begin a resistance training program can gain muscle while in a caloric deficit. It's not going to be a lot of muscle, and you're not going to keep gaining it for years, but it's possible (please note the context as this is one of the limited circumstances under which small gains in muscle can occur).

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html

Next, you need to consider that as you diet down (lose mass), it is likely that some portion of the weight you lose with come from a combination of fat mass and fat free mass (some of this may be skeletal muscle). You want to minimize the amount of muscle loss while dieting, and lifting weights will prevent this to large extent.

(Conversely, when you eat in a caloric surplus you gain a combination of fat mass and fat free mass and your goal, when attempting to gain muscle, is to minimize the fat gain).

Next, an additional consideration is that as you lose fat and retain muscle, you will give the appearance of having gained muscle as you will look leaner and more fit.

Given your stats, you should be eating at a caloric deficit to reduce overall body mass/weight. You should use some resistance training as a part of your program to minimize the loss of muscle and possibly gain a bit of muscle in the short term.

Amazing... thank you.