Question about Suggested Calories

BamaRose0107

As for my story I gave my opinion through what happened to me personally. Thats all. You gave your opinion I have a right to give mine. Respect goes a long way Ma'am.

arewethereyet

I call BS!!! :laugh: Just because you were able to lose a lot of weight on a little bit of food does not mean that is the way for all ppl.

My doctor, chiropractor, personal trainer, and orthopaedic surgeon all suggested that I exercise 300 calories a day and eat 1500-1600 calories a day.

When I ate 1000 and exercised 400 I ended up miserable, hungry, tired, cranky and eventually on an IV line in the ER for 12 hours. The RN in the ER pointed out we need food to sustain life.

So please do not say starvation mode is a myth............unless of course you have done substantial work in a lab and/or have a degree in medicine.

I have tried each and ever way to lose weight....except surgery and only because I didnt have enough excess weight to qualify.........and this is the first time I have kept off 30+ pounds AND continued to LOSE 1/2 lb or so a month.

Sheez Louise........folks you must EAT!

arewethereyet

OH and Mcmadame.........I am GLAD you had the sx. I pray each and every day my BFF I grew up with will get the sx and live a longer life. She says it is dangerous, but so is her fatty liver, and the minor stroke she had because she is 150 lbs overweight.

I really do not think ANYone has an issue with ppl having sx.............just suggesting to others to eat 700 cals a day is not a good idea, because they are NOT under a doctors care, ya know?:flowerforyou:

SHBoss1673

McMadame,

I'll argue the facts of starvation all day, I've read more studies, articles and research on the topic than I can even remember. But ALL of them come to the same conclusions.

I'M GOING TO SAY THIS AGAIN, BECAUSE APPARENTLY NOBODY LISTENS. So please read this carefully, 3 times if you have to, please. (this is my frustration leaking out)

NOBODY is saying you don't lose weight while in starvation mode, nobody is saying you gain weight in starvation mode, and nobody is saying that you instantly enter starvation mode the moment you go below any specific number.
What we say is, and this is completely supported by ALL the studies, when your body recognizes a caloric deficit, it begins to utilize it's genetic "famine response", the greater the deficit, and the longer the deficit, the more acute this response becomes. That means, in layman's terms, the bigger the deficit, the more things the body will do to conserve it's fat mass, and the harder it will try to reduce your metabolic rate to match incoming energy. This is proven out by even the studies that you cite.

This means, if you create a giant deficit, and you don't supply energy to your body, your body WILL take steps to reduce your metabolic rate. Things such as, reducing the rate at which organs function (NOTE******* THIS DOES NOT MEAN CANABALIZING YOUR ORGANS, this means shutting down activity partially or slowing down the rate of function to reduce energy expenditure, like turning off a light bulb in your house.), burning fat free mass (muscle and bone) by leeching amino acids from these tissues for energy to reduce overall metabolic rate, and STORING fat mass at a higher rate as well.

The way to combat this is to give your body enough energy so the famine response is kept to a minimum, and by exercising muscles to trigger growth, muscles in use are not catabolized for energy.

This is what drives me nuts, Starvation mode is NOT a myth, it's a fact, the only myth is some people's perception of it.

The question that needs to be asked IMHO is, how is saying starvation mode is a myth helping people? By doing this you polarize people, making the subject itself the debate, instead of trying to educate people on the actual facts. I mean, really, what's the point of this site? To help people become healthy right? So let's do that, forget this argument over the nuances of a term.

So I'm done with this debate, I've not seen any credible evidence to refute the facts that I've laid out are, so I consider it over.

Angie789

Banks,

I just wanted to say a HUGE thank you for all your hard work in getting good, quality information out there to us! I don't post that frequently, but I read the forums all the time, and I have referred many of my friends & family to your threads - they don't post either, but the info you've given us has helped SO much in breaking the cycle of yo-yo dieting that we've dealt with for years (caused by that "myth" - starvation mode LOL).

I know threads like this one are so frustrating for you, but I just wanted to let you know that there are a lot of us out here who are able to separate the quality information from the junk!

Keep fighting the good fight, and don't let threads like this one get you down - you are helping so many people!!!

arewethereyet

So I'm done with this debate, I've not seen any credible evidence to refute the facts that I've laid out are, so I consider it over.

My dear friend......you will NEVER be done with this debate!!

As long as there are people who lose weight on 700 cals a day, the debate will march on.

I too thank you for all the time and energy you put into this subject. Your head must hurt pretty badly from striking it against the brick wall.

Jeannie

SHBoss1673

Just so everyone knows, this isn't me attacking someone (I can get far meaner than this, just ask the wife! ), this is me being a little ahh, passionate about a topic. I have much love for McMadame and all the hard work she has done, and I'm pretty sure she knows that, you'll notice that however heated these topics become, we never resort to physical attacks, it's all about the data folks.

MacMadame

NOBODY is saying you don't lose weight while in starvation mode, nobody is saying you gain weight in starvation mode, and nobody is saying that you instantly enter starvation mode the moment you go below any specific number.

Actually a LOT of people say these things. They say that, if you don't eat your exercise calories, you will not lose weight. They tell people who don't eat their exercise calories for only *one day* that they are going to go into starvation mode when it takes much longer than that and often a much higher deficit. They do say your body will start eating your organs if you don't eat your exercise calories.

I know *you* don't say these things, but the majority here do.

But the main reason why I continue to post what I post is that they tell people who are eating a lot and not exercising more than moderately that the reason they aren't losing weight is because they aren't eating *enough* when most of the time the reason is that they are over-estimating their exercise and not operating at a calorie deficit. I think that does people who are struggling a disservice. I also think a lot of people love the idea of 'starvation mode' because it gives them an excuse to eat more and not feel guilty about it. But, when their weight doesn't come off, they get discouraged and abandon the *entire* healthy lifestyle. Which is bad.

Honestly, I think we agree on the basic principles. We've read many of the same studies. What differs is our emphasis.

Plus, it drives me bananas when people say "if you don't eat enough, your body will go into starvation mode and *you won't lose weight*!" As you said, that's not what the studies show. THAT is the "Starvation Mode Myth".

What I say is: eat enough that you have the energy to go about your daily activities. If you are draggy and irritable, then that defeats the purpose of dieting because the point is to have better quality of life. For some people, that means eating their exercise calories, for some it means only eating some of them and for some it means not eating any of them. There is no "one size fits all" way of doing this; the right path is going to be different for everyone.

SHBoss1673

OK but the problem is, you're calling it a myth, which, by your own admission, is false. If you think they're not doing it right, it's ok to tell them they aren't doing it right, but don't jump to calling it a myth.

Now, as I've already said, many people are incorrect in their idea of starvation mode, but that's a different issue from it being a myth.

And I should have been more clear on my statement, although I think you knew exactly what I was saying, The expression I meant was not NOBODY, it should have been I'm, so replace that first nobody with I'm, and that second nobody with I'm not.

And as you know, and many others as well, I'm the first one to reply to someone when they start spouting out false info about calories (well, when I'm not to beaten down by the grind that is), when I see people saying false statements, I call Bull****.

So now that we've sufficiently hijacked this poor person's thread, and completely ruined it, maybe we can call this horse officially beaten for the day.

arewethereyet

woke up from my nap, are we done yet?

MacMadame

OK but the problem is, you're calling it a myth, which, by your own admission, is false.

The myth is:

If you don't eat at least X calories, your body will go into starvation mode and you won't lose weight.

X = usually presented as 1200, sometimes 1400, but it can also be expressed as "If you don't eat your exercise calories"

It's a myth on many levels, which we've already gone over. I don't think either of us wants to go over it again. :laugh:

SHBoss1673

OK but the problem is, you're calling it a myth, which, by your own admission, is false.

The myth is:

If you don't eat at least X calories, your body will go into starvation mode and you won't lose weight.

X = usually presented as 1200, sometimes 1400, but it can also be expressed as "If you don't eat your exercise calories"

It's a myth on many levels, which we've already gone over. I don't think either of us wants to go over it again. :laugh:

OK, but this is NOT starvation mode, this is some one's misguided representation of their metabolic function. Starvation mode is REAL, and does happen, and when someone says it's a myth, others will listen.

don't you see? Saying "starvation mode is a myth" is the same as what the above is doing, attaching a broad generalization to a topic that is neither broad, nor general.

Correcting these people is fine, but doing so by just saying, "it's a myth" is frustration and laziness, nothing more. you correct this by telling them why it takes more than 1 or 2 days to enter starvation mode, and explaining how everyone has to determine, through careful research and study and tweaking of existing methods, their own limitations with regards to weight loss.
Classifying a condition as a myth because people incorrectly define the condition doesn't help, it just makes people more confused.

kwardklinck

If you start out eating only 1200 cals a day, you have no where else to go when your body decides to stop losing. I think I'd eat at least 1500 to start with and then decrease from there if you have to.