A little knowledge is a dangerous thing (help)

speedisoverrated

The subject, for me at least, is as true as true can be. Quick history lesson, I lost 30lbs over about a year by lowering portion sizes, cutting out snacks/alcohol and running about 10k a week (from doing nothing, I know it's not a high distance). I wasn't on the site then, so there was no tracking etc.

I've maintained this level for a good few months, without exercising as I lost my way a little bit. Anyway, now I'm at a bit of a crossroads, and the forums have both helped and confused me.

I'll give you my numbers, my proposed exercise and what I want to achieve - could somebody give me a rough idea what I need to do to make this possible, as the more I read, the more I confuse myself, and lose ground.

Katch-McArdle has me at a BMR of 1421, after using the Military BFC (which came out at 18.6%).
I'm 67.5 inches tall, weigh 131lbs, male (which might be obvious) and 28 years old. I work in a desk job, with little work related exercise/standing/anything other than working on screen.

My aims are to lose as little weight as possible, but lose body fat - I'd obviously like to replace it with lean muscle, but this might be a case of trying to pat my head, rub my tummy, and solve fourteen rubik's cubes at the same time.

fat2fit gives me the following TDEEs:

Sedentary - 1859
Light - 2130
Moderate - 2401

Current/Proposed Exercise

I walk for 2 miles in 30 minutes, 3 days a week minimum, at a fast pace, which involves some long hills, so it's some form of exercise.

I am / will be running three times a week - two 30 minute runs (5k) and a longer run, building up to a 10k, and then on from this. One of the 5k runs may become speed training.

I'd like to start some basic (we have basic kit at home) two - three times a week.

I understand that eating at TDEE will allow me to maintain weight, lower will lose weight, and above will gain weight. What I'm struggling to grasp is which TDEE to eat to. I'm also struggling with macros - MFP sets it one way, the Road Map sets it another way. I'm happy to work it whichever way is best, but by reducing carbs when trying to run, am I doing myself a disservice?

Pretty please be nice - I know the forum has a wealth of information, I've looked at the road map, I've read other peoples experiences, but I'm struggling to apply it to myself.

If anybody has any suggestions that don't start with 'Go away', I'd be very grateful.

(I've even added a smiley face to cheer any poor soul who reads all of this)

ejwme

Ok, please don't worry. Your story sounds like you're headed in all good directions. A few things that might help you decide where to go forward:

1. MFP allows you to track your exercise. Since you have a desk job, you'd count as "sedentary" unless when you get off work you constantly putter around the house and move and clean and do things. So your base would be the lowest number. When you exercise, no matter what it is, you add those calories on top of your allowance. So say your base is 1300 and you burn 150 calories on a walk, you'd get to eat 1450 that day total. This is incentive to do roughly the same amount of vigorous exercise a day so you don't go from a 1800 calorie "heavy" day to a 1300 calorie "rest" day. The question is how to determine your calories - heart rate is best, but MFP has a database that's not too bad. This is one option it works for a lot of people.

2. Another option, and it looks like this is where you're headed and have confusion, is to count your exercise in to your daily amounts. This is what I do because I am an otherwise sedentary distance runner, and honestly fitting in 3000 calories one day and surviving off 1300 the next sucks. So I eat about 1500 calories a day, but have a snack program tailored to my runs (pre and post snacks, and a certain amount of carbs/hour running). For you, it might be simpler to just sort out how much your workouts will be a week and evenly add that over the 7 days, knowing that if you cheat, you'll gain.

3. You asked about building lean muscle or turning fat into muscle, and carbs. Runners do really well on carbohydrates, but you aren't doing enough miles that I'd say it's necessary for you if you decided to cut back on them. You NEED protein, but again, you're not doing so much you need an excessive amount. You also will need to do strength training *of some kind* to build muscle - walking won't cut it. Check out nerdfitness.com for some good starting points and good form info. I personally hate strength training, I find it to be incredibly boring, repetitive, and mind numbing (yes, I'm a distance runner, I don't get it either). But there are so many programs out there, you'll find one you like (even I did).

4. Map out a plan, try it for a few weeks, see how your body reacts. You like? Continue. No good? Tweak it. You got down to where you are now by doing smart things, the absolute worst thing is that you do *exactly* that again and get back down to where you are now. You won't mysteriously balloon up and be unable to lose the weight. You can do this.

Good luck!

speedisoverrated

Ok, please don't worry. Your story sounds like you're headed in all good directions. A few things that might help you decide where to go forward:

1. MFP allows you to track your exercise. Since you have a desk job, you'd count as "sedentary" unless when you get off work you constantly putter around the house and move and clean and do things. So your base would be the lowest number. When you exercise, no matter what it is, you add those calories on top of your allowance. So say your base is 1300 and you burn 150 calories on a walk, you'd get to eat 1450 that day total. This is incentive to do roughly the same amount of vigorous exercise a day so you don't go from a 1800 calorie "heavy" day to a 1300 calorie "rest" day. The question is how to determine your calories - heart rate is best, but MFP has a database that's not too bad. This is one option it works for a lot of people.

2. Another option, and it looks like this is where you're headed and have confusion, is to count your exercise in to your daily amounts. This is what I do because I am an otherwise sedentary distance runner, and honestly fitting in 3000 calories one day and surviving off 1300 the next sucks. So I eat about 1500 calories a day, but have a snack program tailored to my runs (pre and post snacks, and a certain amount of carbs/hour running). For you, it might be simpler to just sort out how much your workouts will be a week and evenly add that over the 7 days, knowing that if you cheat, you'll gain.

3. You asked about building lean muscle or turning fat into muscle, and carbs. Runners do really well on carbohydrates, but you aren't doing enough miles that I'd say it's necessary for you if you decided to cut back on them. You NEED protein, but again, you're not doing so much you need an excessive amount. You also will need to do strength training *of some kind* to build muscle - walking won't cut it. Check out nerdfitness.com for some good starting points and good form info. I personally hate strength training, I find it to be incredibly boring, repetitive, and mind numbing (yes, I'm a distance runner, I don't get it either). But there are so many programs out there, you'll find one you like (even I did).

4. Map out a plan, try it for a few weeks, see how your body reacts. You like? Continue. No good? Tweak it. You got down to where you are now by doing smart things, the absolute worst thing is that you do *exactly* that again and get back down to where you are now. You won't mysteriously balloon up and be unable to lose the weight. You can do this.

Good luck!

Appreciate the response I use Endomondo when walking and Nike+ when running to give me an idea of calories. Sure they aren't exact, but they're consistent.

It's very difficult to know what TDEE does and doesn't account for, but I take your point about ensuring I eat to cover it, and eat around exercise to make sure I have a protein kick after lifting, and fuel pre-run.

It was a lot easier when I just wanted to lose weight. Who knew I'd miss those days! If I'm not doing enough miles to need huge carb stores, I'll look at realigning to 40/30/30 as suggested in a number of places. If it won't affect my small amount of running, I'll give it a shot.

ejwme

yeah, until you start running more than 20 miles a week, I don't think it really matters too much the spread of macros you eat, provided you are eating enough calories to cover your output. I've done a low carb diet (< 50g sugars/day for a few weeks, then <100g/day for almost a year), and was able to stay active, but I never ran very far during that year. I'm sure there are people who will disagree with me and say carbs are the devil, nobody needs them, and people who will say carbs are vital parts of simply existing and everyone needs them. I know what they do to/for me, because I played with my intake and activity level and paid attention. Listen to your body. It sounds like you've already learned a lot from it, it can teach you more. Be wary of advice you pay for, especially from someone you don't see face-to-face (like books, websites, etc). There's a lot of hot air out there (and here! I might be hot air too!) take it all with a grain of salt.

That being said, if you start running for speed or distance, or looking to focus on performance rather than just fitness, that's when to go ahead and revisit the topic in greater depth, maybe even see a professional who deals with athletes. Don't go to a nutritionist who specializes in geriatric diabetics, for instance, go see one who has personally run a marathon - they understand the "bonk" and can help you avoid it. Don't go to a trainer who helps bored housewives use nautilus machines, unless that's what you want - use a trainer who has managed a sub-5 minute mile at some point in their life.

Last tip - track your calories in and calories out in one place all together. It helps to see them side by side, you can save yourself a lot of "d'oh!" moments.

Justkritter

I'm at 148 lbs atm but I'm not really leaning to lose any more weight but I got to convert that body fat into muscle mass. What I'm doing right now is trying to get my calories up and tracking them with MFP. I'm also changing my lifting to lift more heavy weights in an 8-10 rep range. I've lost barely 1 lb now and I guess I can see my muscle are more defined when I flex them but I still have a barely good amount of body fat that definition can't be seen normally.

FullOfWin

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/686963-large-collection-of-info-for-beginners

ejwme

Justkritter - don't forget that definition is also dependent on genetics - I have a cousin who is strong as an ox and has very little body fat, but has far less definition than one would expect for his fitness level. Some people get washboard abs you can do laundry on - some people don't. Not saying don't keep doing what you're doing, it sounds like a good plan, but make sure you know why you're doing it - a strong body is a healthy body.

And muscle weighs more than fat, so if you lost 1# on the scale, you've lost a lot more fat but put on muscle. To truly measure improvement, take a couple other measurements like bicep, thigh, waist circumferences, and max weight (like a deadlift or squat or something). That way when the scale falters you'll know if it's a true stagnation or you're just getting results best measured in other ways.

speedisoverrated

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/686963-large-collection-of-info-for-beginners

Appreciate the sentiment but another collection of information isn't exactly what I'm looking for.

Sorry

speedisoverrated

Justkritter - don't forget that definition is also dependent on genetics - I have a cousin who is strong as an ox and has very little body fat, but has far less definition than one would expect for his fitness level. Some people get washboard abs you can do laundry on - some people don't. Not saying don't keep doing what you're doing, it sounds like a good plan, but make sure you know why you're doing it - a strong body is a healthy body.

And muscle weighs more than fat, so if you lost 1# on the scale, you've lost a lot more fat but put on muscle. To truly measure improvement, take a couple other measurements like bicep, thigh, waist circumferences, and max weight (like a deadlift or squat or something). That way when the scale falters you'll know if it's a true stagnation or you're just getting results best measured in other ways.

I have measurements from a while back, so I'll look to redo this now and keep this active, as weight isn't much help now. Thanks both

FullOfWin

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/686963-large-collection-of-info-for-beginners

Appreciate the sentiment but another collection of information isn't exactly what I'm looking for.

Sorry

That link has all the info you need. What are you looking for? You asked questions. That link has the answers.