Really just tired of the lies....
Replies
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I believe a lot of the problem is people just believe what they read on the Internet and don't do any of their own research! If it works for you then that's great but it doesn't mean someone doing it differently can achieve the same results
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Thank you ... this is the first post that I have read in the last couple days that I can wrap my head around.0
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Are people on MFP really so ignorant or arrogant that they believe the only way to accomplish the goals that we have in common is their way and no other?
In short, yes.
But thankfully, not everyone.0 -
I agree with you. If something isn't working for me, I find another answer and try that. If something is, then I stick with what I am doing and ignore the, 'You shouldn't do that" lecture. I have cut back on a lot of added sugar, less my coffee creamer. You can only cut out so much, and my coffee creamer is the one treat I get to have. I have the sugar free ice cream, the sugar free sweetener, hell...I pretty much wear the sugar free tee shirt. Darn it, I can have my creamer!0
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Good post, OP. It's crap like this that discourages people from trying to get healthy in the first place. It's like, "Ok, because I don't eat only from food grown on my own personal organic farm and do [X] type of exercise, I might as well just sit on my @$$ all day because whatever I'm doing is wrong and I'll never see results?" :huh:
While I like to stay active and have fitness goals, I still have a career and a life! I don't need visible abs or a thigh gap to have worth and meaning in my life. ANYTHING is better than sitting on my butt and eating crap all day.0 -
Only if you have an intolerance to a certain carb or if you believe Gary Taubes. I eat over 200g of carbs a day and I cut fat like it's my job.Carbs DO make you fat.
Here is my personal favorite
greater weight loss on ticker = more knowledgeable.
So apparently, someone who followed MFP's direction and lose 60 lbs makes them smarter than me because I only started with 20 lbs to lose.
I do agree with you. Because calories in vs out is what controls weight loss. Macro nutrition can help with recomposition but you can still have alcohol and eat unhealthy. Will you maximize workouts, maybe... maybe not. But that is a person decision to make based on performance.0 -
OMG can I hire you next time I go up and meet with a "friend" who basically pee-ed on all my achievements to lose pounds, and get back into exercise despite chronic knee injuries?
We had a conversation that would have been hilarious, if he hadn't been such a knob about it all, along the lines of:
Me: I've lost half a stone already, yay team me!
Him: You can't if you eat white bread, white rice and non-wholewheat pasta and don't even think about using oil in anything
Me: I've lost half a stone already
Him: You can't if you eat white bread and even think about using oil in anything, and don't even get me started on the fact you are obviously on a calorie controlled diet
Me: I've lost half a stone [/and in my head I want to SCREAM - I LOST IT EATING WHAT I DAMN WELL LIKE!!! Sometimes healthy from scratch, sometimes courtesy of Captain Birsdeye, hell sometimes even a MaccyD... AND I AM STILL LOSING!]
Him: AND you eat crap
Me: I've lost..... the will to live...0 -
Great post, OP! :drinker:0
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Thanks for the responses folks, glad to hear I'm not the only one that feels this way. I'm not going to make direct replies to everyone, but I'll hit on the highlights. First and foremost, I agree, the easiest way not to be frustrated by these dopes is to not read their crap. Unfortunately, I have this addiction to trying to help people so I like to share my experience and knowledge in many threads. So often I get involved in a thread that is going well, we give the poster some advice and things are good until someone pops in with the"You have to eat clean to......" or "If you don't add squats you're never......".
As much as I'd love for those folks to read this post, I never expected they would. I certainly have no expectation that I would change anyone's mind. This was just more of a venting session for me and a chance to determine if I was on my own or validate that others are as annoyed by their behavior as I am.
Finally, someone mentioned Body Recomposition. I'm a huge fan of Lyle McDonald. I've read a lot of his articles and his book "The Stubborn Fat Solution". He has a lot of great information. I have noticed though, even with him, he makes some statements about the way your body works as though their widely accepted facts when in reality much of it is still under debate and research. As long as you take it in with that perspective, it's great stuff.
So thanks everyone, keep at it!!0 -
Thanks for the responses folks, glad to hear I'm not the only one that feels this way. I'm not going to make direct replies to everyone, but I'll hit on the highlights. First and foremost, I agree, the easiest way not to be frustrated by these dopes is to not read their crap. Unfortunately, I have this addiction to trying to help people so I like to share my experience and knowledge in many threads. So often I get involved in a thread that is going well, we give the poster some advice and things are good until someone pops in with the"You have to eat clean to......" or "If you don't add squats you're never......".
As much as I'd love for those folks to read this post, I never expected they would. I certainly have no expectation that I would change anyone's mind. This was just more of a venting session for me and a chance to determine if I was on my own or validate that others are as annoyed by their behavior as I am.
Finally, someone mentioned Body Recomposition. I'm a huge fan of Lyle McDonald. I've read a lot of his articles and his book "The Stubborn Fat Solution". He has a lot of great information. I have noticed though, even with him, he makes some statements about the way your body works as though their widely accepted facts when in reality much of it is still under debate and research. As long as you take it in with that perspective, it's great stuff.
So thanks everyone, keep at it!!
Just keep in mind, those who consistently provide good advice start to build a reputation and others will push that advice. Or we develop groups like "eat, train progress" and you can by-pass some of that crap, lol.0 -
As a former smoker, I really tried hard not to be one of those annoying former smokers. You know the kind, the kind that develop a "holier than thou" attitude, ridiculing smokers, or pushing their "how I quit" on people as if it's the gospel.
Like you, I have seen the same kind of people on this site from time to time.
They're going off like, "I lost weight by doing X, so everyone should be doing X, and you're wrong if you're doing anything but X".
I got a real kick out of seeing someone on the threads saying "I don't understand how anyone could eat fast food" and just absolutely blasting anyone who did..........yet her food diary clearly showed that she was a bit of a hypocrite.
I tend to ignore those people and move on to those who inspire or motivate, instead of bully and belittle.0 -
Has anyone else noticed that the more controversial (and therefore usually most active) threads on these forums are the ones where people insist on speaking in absolutes and pushing their beliefs on everyone else? Are people on MFP really so ignorant or arrogant that they believe the only way to accomplish the goals that we have in common is their way and no other? The age old adage "there's more than one way to skin a cat" applies to so many things in life and indeed applies to fitness and health goals. If there's one thing I've learned over the many years that I've been educating myself on fitness and diet it's that the body remains a mysterious and marvelous machine. It is such a complex meshing of systems that to try and make any universal statement about any of the complex processes in the body is futile at best.
Indeed I've learned that when it comes to fitness and diet, the people to avoid most diligently are those that tell you they've found *THE* answer and this is it. Those hocking their latest fitness contraption always tell you how great and revolutionary it is and point to the "wasted time and effort" involved in their competitors equipment. Those pushing the latest diet approach always seem to be telling us how other diet programs are flawed and will never work. I run from these stories like the plague.
Yet here on MFP, where the very site itself promotes a balanced approach to improving our diet and developing a lifestyle of fitness, we still have the people that insist on pushing their approach that worked for them as *THE* end-all be-all holy grail of solutions to diet and fitness. For some reason these people cannot find room in their mind to understand that many approaches work, each and every single one has their own advantages and disadvantages, and no one answer applies to all of us universally.
So without further ado, here's my list of the lies I'm tired of hearing:
1. Your not serious about strength training if you're not doing squats and dead lifts -> Not true, I know a few professional personal trainers and strength trainers who never use either in their workout plans and they have some clients that are very impressive. Personally, I've had a solid focus for the last year and a half on strength and mass building and without doing a single deadlift and with squats only a very tiny portion of my workout plan I've got some awesome results.
2. You must eat clean to get down to a low Body Fat % and develop a 6-pack -> Hogwash. I've never eaten clean a day in my life. I enjoy processed foods, foods with chemicals, foods made with white flour, and even fast food. Yet here I sit with 9.7% bodyfat and a respectable six pack that's easily visible.
3. Your need to drink plain water to hydrate properly -> Oh gawd, that dammed water debate. No I can drink my crystal light, Aquafina flavor splash, Coke Zero, Gatorade and milk and somehow I have no problem remaining fully hydrated.
4. Carbs make you fat, sugars make you fat, xxxx makes you fat. You have to give them up to get thin -> Again, complete crap. I've not given up ANY FOOD in my lifestyle change and yet I'm at the 9.7% Bodyfat I mentioned above. Instead learning to eat in moderation and balance has been my key. Low Carb/No Carb diets do work, sure. So do diets like mine that let you eat whatever you want as long as you follow the plan.
I'm sure I could go on with a few hundred examples but I think most get the point. Educate yourselves. When you insist that your way is the only proper way to do things and that anyone not doing it your way is foolish, it is you who ultimately looks the fool. If anyone on this forum tells you in no uncertain terms that *this* is the only way then I'd be very skeptical of what they're telling you. Share your experiences, offer tips that helped you, but drop the arrogance that makes you believe you've found the magic solution that everyone should follow and which makes you judge those that have not chosen your path as sadly unaware of the horrible choices they're making. Instead be aware that many are well aware of the choices you've made and have instead made choices that have worked for them. Stop insisting they're doing it wrong or thinking of them as ignorant fools for not following your directions.
Totally totally agree with you! Well said!0 -
The one thing I've noticed lately is that some poeple talk in ideals... as in the best most effective/most efficient way to reach your goals ignoring all other factors, while other people just want something that will work and that they can sustain.
That difference is rarely stated, and almost always missed in the forums. Sure, recommendation A may be 1% more effective, but there's only about 3 people on this site that will benefit from that 1%.
More people need to realize that it's about the effort, not the method for 90% of us. What we choose to do is far less important than how hard we try at it. Someone going all out at on a circuit of weight machines is probably going to see better results than someone half-assing it with free weights.
At the end of the day... bust your *kitten* in your workouts and eat right. Period. End of conversation. If you want to eat organic whole foods, have at it. If you want lean cuisine, fine. If you like zumba, great. Want to squat a truck? Go for it.
Agree!! The best work out for you is the one you like and will stick with!0 -
I agree 100% with the OP. Balance is always key. Also Stress plays a huge roll with everything also.
Though I want to Squat a truck though sounds pretty badass thinking about it.0 -
The one thing I've noticed lately is that some poeple talk in ideals... as in the best most effective/most efficient way to reach your goals ignoring all other factors, while other people just want something that will work and that they can sustain.
That difference is rarely stated, and almost always missed in the forums. Sure, recommendation A may be 1% more effective, but there's only about 3 people on this site that will benefit from that 1%.
More people need to realize that it's about the effort, not the method for 90% of us. What we choose to do is far less important than how hard we try at it. Someone going all out at on a circuit of weight machines is probably going to see better results than someone half-assing it with free weights.
At the end of the day... bust your *kitten* in your workouts and eat right. Period. End of conversation. If you want to eat organic whole foods, have at it. If you want lean cuisine, fine. If you like zumba, great. Want to squat a truck? Go for it.
This ^^^ 100%0 -
I agree! Every person is their own special case when it comes to what works and what does not.
What works for me will not necessarily work for you.0 -
For the most part I agree with you, but only to an extent. I do think that how you should train really depends on your overall goals. I'm going to ride through all your points without disagreement except for the first one (my diet is dirty as hell, I drink lots of stuff and the only thing I don't count is booze, and the only carb I shy away from is gluten because I'm intolerant). I have heard that you should do both, I've also heard that you really can't advance and progress in either deads or squats as quickly as your potential if you are training both. That being said, if someone tells me that they only focus on weight training their upper body never ever do any weighted legs (I'll accept lunges, extentions, hami curls, calf raises, etc) all I can think is b-b-b-b-b-gawk.0
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Awesome, awesome post.
The ones who typically fail are the ones who have the all-or-nothing approach. Your lifestyle has to be sustainable or it will not work. Period.
You really can have your cake and eat it too, and still lose weight.
I don't eat 100% clean 100% of the time, but it's much cleaner than when I started my weight loss program. I still believe it's a matter of calories in vs calories out, but good nutrition is very important as it keeps you fuller longer on fewer calories, and makes you feel great.
I still enjoy apple pie and real ice cream - I just don't consume large quantities of them like I used to.0 -
To each thier own! I try to write what works for me but every BODY is different. You offering what works for you is educating them. And thats what these forums are all about. It is hard to educate yourself about nutrition, it is a long process to find valid research and there are so many conflicting studies and srticles out there, it doesn't surprise me people get it confused.0
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I do think this is worth pointing out something before people get too carried away with the "I'm a beautiful snowflake" mentality...
The science behind what causes weight loss, weight gain, muscle growth, strength increases, cardiovascular health, etc IS ALL THE SAME. My body works the same as your body which works the same as everyone else's on this site (with the only significant difference being people with legitimate health issues, like diabetes, etc.).
What varies, what falls under the "what works for you" umbrella is the method.
People need to sustain a healthy caloric deficit to lose weight. Period. That's the science part. The method is how you get there. Whole foods alone works. Prepared foods with elliptical works. Processed foods with zumba works. Diet with 15 minutes of running works. Diet with 4 hours of cycling works. Diet with free weights works. Diet with weight machines works. Diet with 5lb weights works. Diet with 400lbs works. Eating back exercise cals works. Not eating them back works. Etc. There are dozens of ways to skin the cat... but what you're doing doesn't change (skinning the cat), it's the HOW that changes.
Now, the more specific your goals get, and the more "accomplished" you become towards those goals, then less wiggle room you may have in trying different methods. If you're at 8% BF and looking to add 5lbs of lean muscle, the treadmill probably isn't your best bet. So goals do play a role in this as well.
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I do think this is worth pointing out something before people get too carried away with the "I'm a beautiful snowflake" mentality...
The science behind what causes weight loss, weight gain, muscle growth, strength increases, cardiovascular health, etc IS ALL THE SAME. My body works the same as your body which works the same as everyone else's on this site (with the only significant difference being people with legitimate health issues, like diabetes, etc.).
What varies, what falls under the "what works for you" umbrella is the method.
People need to sustain a healthy caloric deficit to lose weight. Period. That's the science part. The method is how you get there. Whole foods alone works. Prepared foods with elliptical works. Processed foods with zumba works. Diet with 15 minutes of running works. Diet with 4 hours of cycling works. Diet with free weights works. Diet with weight machines works. Diet with 5lb weights works. Diet with 400lbs works. Eating back exercise cals works. Not eating them back works. Etc. There are dozens of ways to skin the cat... but what you're doing doesn't change (skinning the cat), it's the HOW that changes.
Now, the more specific your goals get, and the more "accomplished" you become towards those goals, then less wiggle room you may have in trying different methods. If you're at 8% BF and looking to add 5lbs of lean muscle, the treadmill probably isn't your best bet. So goals do play a role in this as well.
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Well stated sir!!0 -
Agree OP in fact most of the time both here and in life when I see someone tying themselves to an absolute, I stop listening. The most intelligent people I'm around draw few conclusions but spot many issues. Unfortunately our culture seems to be getting increasingly closed minded as reflected by not only nutrition, health and conditioning but also politics, religion, guns and just about everything else.
I frequently chuckle to myself when I see absolutes in weight training. I've trained for 40 years and have seen so many principles come in go. With each and every one it was never "I think this works because I've gotten results" it's been "this is the only way." I've tried just about everything in my quest to figure it out. My one conclusion is there are many ways to the hoop. I've worked out with many guys who do it differently.
By the way, the most successful guys I've been around working out almost never do it the way we're so often told here we have to.0 -
I agree 100% with what you are saying. I continue to read peoples' stories on what has worked for them, simply because I can't find what works for me yet. Still seeking the answer for my body. Unfortunately, not many people (that I have seen here) seem to be having my stuggles.
Not looking for a magic pill. Just the formula that my body needs to achieve my goals!!
Thanks for the post.
totally agree0 -
Great post, OP.
I also agree with most of this:I do think this is worth pointing out something before people get too carried away with the "I'm a beautiful snowflake" mentality...
The science behind what causes weight loss, weight gain, muscle growth, strength increases, cardiovascular health, etc IS ALL THE SAME. My body works the same as your body which works the same as everyone else's on this site (with the only significant difference being people with legitimate health issues, like diabetes, etc.).
What varies, what falls under the "what works for you" umbrella is the method.
People need to sustain a healthy caloric deficit to lose weight. Period. That's the science part. The method is how you get there. Whole foods alone works. Prepared foods with elliptical works. Processed foods with zumba works. Diet with 15 minutes of running works. Diet with 4 hours of cycling works. Diet with free weights works. Diet with weight machines works. Diet with 5lb weights works. Diet with 400lbs works. Eating back exercise cals works. Not eating them back works. Etc. There are dozens of ways to skin the cat... but what you're doing doesn't change (skinning the cat), it's the HOW that changes.
Now, the more specific your goals get, and the more "accomplished" you become towards those goals, then less wiggle room you may have in trying different methods. If you're at 8% BF and looking to add 5lbs of lean muscle, the treadmill probably isn't your best bet. So goals do play a role in this as well.
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My only quibble with this would be that more emphasis probably needs to be placed on people identifying their goals when defining their training program. Of course, for the beginning exerciser, anything that gets them off the couch is great. But, at some point, everyone should do some research on how to dial-in a program that helps them meet their goals. And, I believe, that most of us would benefit from doing a variety of styles of exercising in order to work different muscle groups in different ways but, yeah, a beginner can always add and change things later once they get in the exercise habit.
I also believe that a greater percentage of those of us who struggle with weight would do better eating less carbs than those who have maintained a healthy weight most of their lives. But, of course, there are overweight who can eat huge amounts of carbs and still lose well so this doesn't apply to everybody. I just think that someone who is struggling with weight loss might look into lowering carbs to see if it helps. They probably don't have to go keto or anything extreme but might find better success with less even if they're not diabetic, etc.
And I agree with RoadsterGirl about flexible dieting with the caveat is that I know some folks might have food issues where this would put them on a downward slide or a binge. So, while most of us do great with being flexible, there are some who need to a stricter plan.0
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