Which training plan for first marathon?

aswearingen22

I'm planning for Chicago to be my first marathon on 10/13/13 (registration opens 2/19). I've run for fitness for 10ish years (3 miles a few times a week along with other workouts), but started running further distances about 2 years ago. I ran my first half in 2011, three halfs in 2012, and am running four spring halfs in 2013. I think I'll have a good base to start marathon training at the end of May and am really excited for the challenge! For the halfs in the past, I've followed Hal Higdon's Novice 1 and Novice 2 training programs. This year, I'm following Run Like a Mother's Half Marathon: Own It plan and so far have really been enjoying it as I've never done speed work before and the plan includes intervals, tempo runs, hill work, strides, etc.

I'm planning to use the Run Like a Mother's Marathon: Finish It plan starting on 5/27 (20 week training plan). It has 7 runs of 15 miles or longer, peaking at a 20 mile run 4 weeks before race day. First week mileage starts out at 27 miles for the week (my current base) and top out at 40 miles a week. Is this sufficient for my first marathon when my goal is just to finish (of course I have a time goal in my head, but #1 goal is to finish)? Should I try to make that 20 mile a 22 miler if I'm up for it? Yes, I know, we're talking about a run in September, 8 months from now, and it's assuming a lot, but I'm just curious for some input from some marathoners. What training plans have you used that you like? Thanks for any and all advice!

aswearingen22

anyone?

CarsonRuns

Hal Higdon's plans are very popular.

http://www.halhigdon.com/

It would help if I read the entire post before responding.

Yes, Higdon's plans are good plans. I know many runners that have had success with them.

I think the plan that you selected has you starting too low. You should look for a more intermediate plan, something that starts out where your base is now.

It's not necessary to run a 22 before a marathon. 20 is plenty. Even though the long run is important, it isn't the end all, be all of marathon training. Equally important is the mid-week, mid-long run. You need to develop overall aerobic base which is done with many miles over time.

rybo

You have a pretty good base coming in, so I would think you should find a plan that tops out the weekly miles closer to 50 than 40. Would you finish fine at a plan with 40, yes, but in my experience going from marathon one to marathon 2 & bumping up that weekly mileage, made things w whole lot easier the second time around. You've got plenty of time to ramp up and safely hold those miles.

bluefox9er

you are a far stronger runner than me, I am entering my first marathon in Toronto in may and following hal higdon novice 2, which you have already had experience of! the very best of luckl on your training and race!

aswearingen22

Thanks so much for the answers guys!! Let's see if this changes your mind on plans...

For the last two years (2011 and 2012), I've run a base of around 25 miles from December - May and then lose my running mojo when it gets hot and am pretty sporadic with my running from June - November. I just ramped my mileage back up to 25/week in early December 2012 (I'm 5 weeks back in at 25/week). When I start marathon training, in late May, I'll have been at 25-36 miles per week from December - May. Is that a long enough time running at that base to jump into an intermediate marathon plan? I just want to get through the training and the marathon and not get injured. I work full-time and have two small kids (3 and 7) and my husband also works full-time and will also be training for the same marathon, also his first. I worry about us both fitting in the training at 40 miles a week, and still have a life, I'm not sure how much more time we have to commit.

aswearingen22

I just looked at Hal Higdon's plans and the one I'm thinking about following (RLAM) is very much like Hal Higdon's Intermediate 1 plan.

- Both have roughly same mileage per week.
- Both start with a LR of 8 miles.
- Both have you running 5 days a week.
- Both have the build-up, step back approach (18 mile long run one week, 16 the next, 20 the following).

Differences:
- Hal's has two 20 milers instead of one in the RLAM.
- RLAM has 7 runs 15 miles or longer, Hal's only has 5 runs 15 miles or longer.
- Hal's just has regular runs all week. RLAM integrates speed work (intervals, tempo runs, negative split runs, hill work, etc).

Since I'll be doing speed work from December- May, I'd really like to keep up with that June - October. Hmmm. Would love more opinions on what others have used!

RotterdamNL

I dont believe in running but for stamina give insanity a try

CarsonRuns

I dont believe in running but for stamina give insanity a try

That won't get you past mile 10.

donnam40

I have done a few marathons and plenty of halves. I think for your first if you are just aiming to finish and remain injury free, Hal Hidgeon is the way to go. Speed work, intervals and hills may leave you more open to injury than the training recommended in the Hal Hidgeon program.

After you have one under your belt, then you can consider improving your time and incorporating speed, intervals and hills.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Good luck!

Donna

arc918

Always remember that training plans are guidelines, not gospel. They are one size fits all numbers on a page - they don't know if you are feeling great one day or feeling bad another.

Also, it is ok to be ahead of your training program. If you are in half marathon shape and run 12+ every weekend, there is no reason to go back to a long run of 8 or 10 for the first couple weeks of the program. You can keeping doing your thing and wait for the program to catch up.

dorianaldyn

you are a far stronger runner than me, I am entering my first marathon in Toronto in may and following hal higdon novice 2, which you have already had experience of! the very best of luckl on your training and race!

Same here, except my May marathon is in Santa Cruz.

In any case, it sounds like you're putting a lot of thought into this which is a good sign. No matter which plan you pick, listen to the feedback your body gives you and adjust accordingly. Like others have said, the plans are not gospel and you can make adjustments if you need to.

aswearingen22

I have done a few marathons and plenty of halves. I think for your first if you are just aiming to finish and remain injury free, Hal Hidgeon is the way to go. Speed work, intervals and hills may leave you more open to injury than the training recommended in the Hal Hidgeon program.

After you have one under your belt, then you can consider improving your time and incorporating speed, intervals and hills.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Good luck!

Donna

Even though I'll have been doing speedwork for 6 months when I start marathon training, you think I shouldn't do it? hmmm, I am really liking the change-up in my runs, and not just running x miles easy every time.

aswearingen22

Always remember that training plans are guidelines, not gospel. They are one size fits all numbers on a page - they don't know if you are feeling great one day or feeling bad another.

Also, it is ok to be ahead of your training program. If you are in half marathon shape and run 12+ every weekend, there is no reason to go back to a long run of 8 or 10 for the first couple weeks of the program. You can keeping doing your thing and wait for the program to catch up.

Ahh, yes, that's a good reminder for me, thank you. I tend to be an overachiever in all things and a rule follower, so if the plan says I'm running 7 miles today, 7 miles it is. I did get a cramp in the arch of my right foot on Saturday that was super painful, so I forced myself to skip my long run on Sunday and ice/stretch/ibuprofen for two days before running again. It was incredibly difficult, I was anxious all day!!

I like that advice, the plan has me starting at an 8 mile LR, but I'll have been running LR's of more than 8 miles for 5 months, so you're right, maybe I'll just keep up with 12+ mile LR's and let the plan catch up, great advice!

CarsonRuns

I have done a few marathons and plenty of halves. I think for your first if you are just aiming to finish and remain injury free, Hal Hidgeon is the way to go. Speed work, intervals and hills may leave you more open to injury than the training recommended in the Hal Hidgeon program.

After you have one under your belt, then you can consider improving your time and incorporating speed, intervals and hills.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Good luck!

Donna

Even though I'll have been doing speedwork for 6 months when I start marathon training, you think I shouldn't do it? hmmm, I am really liking the change-up in my runs, and not just running x miles easy every time.

Since the marathon is 99% aerobic, you should be working on developing your aerobic systems. This means lots of easy effort running. During my 12 week build up, I did mostly easy runs with a run with a tempo section (somewhere between AT and LT pace) once a week and a set of 10x20 second strides once a week. The rest was done at an easy, conversational pace. At my peak of 80 miles per week, over 70 were done at that pace. Building your aerobic system will give you far more bang for your buck than hard interval sessions will when it comes to marathon training.

If you go out and do 6 miles with 4 miles of hard intervals, what will you be able to run the next day? 4? Nothing? If you did that 6 mile run at an easy effort, could you run 6 more the next day? Maybe 8? Even 10? Doing those hard intervals hurts your training in two ways. It develops systems that you won't use for the race and it will prevent you from doing more of the aerobic work that you should be doing.

Just remember, you don't have to train fast to run fast.

Dean33

What are you times for your 1/2 marathons? Sounds like you have a pretty solid routine going already so continuing on with what you have been doing until your marathon plan catches up sounds like a great way to slowly build up your mileage. Could speed it up a little and add in one extra 20+ miler towards in the end but I would try to stick to the taper before the race timeline. most importantly LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! try to stick close to the distances, but can always change things around and increase/decrease days depending on how you are feeling. In my experience, slowly building up total weekly mileage and long slow weekend runs were the most important to remain injury free. As for the mid week runs, 2,3 or 4 days and changing up between speed work, hills, tempo runs are all good as long as your getting in your weekly mileage. Have to keep it fun and interesting!

aswearingen22

Since the marathon is 99% aerobic, you should be working on developing your aerobic systems. This means lots of easy effort running. During my 12 week build up, I did mostly easy runs with a run with a tempo section (somewhere between AT and LT pace) once a week and a set of 10x20 second strides once a week. The rest was done at an easy, conversational pace. At my peak of 80 miles per week, over 70 were done at that pace. Building your aerobic system will give you far more bang for your buck than hard interval sessions will when it comes to marathon training.

If you go out and do 6 miles with 4 miles of hard intervals, what will you be able to run the next day? 4? Nothing? If you did that 6 mile run at an easy effort, could you run 6 more the next day? Maybe 8? Even 10? Doing those hard intervals hurts your training in two ways. It develops systems that you won't use for the race and it will prevent you from doing more of the aerobic work that you should be doing.

Just remember, you don't have to train fast to run fast.

You're totally right. Maybe I'll see how I feel and not push it. The training plan I'm looking at isn't crazy speed work...maybe one day a week of intervals, or a run of NS's, or a few miles of RP during the long run, or some strides after an easy run. It's usually only one or two days a week at most, of the 5 days a week I'll be running. I think that's manageable? Thoughts?

CarsonRuns

Since the marathon is 99% aerobic, you should be working on developing your aerobic systems. This means lots of easy effort running. During my 12 week build up, I did mostly easy runs with a run with a tempo section (somewhere between AT and LT pace) once a week and a set of 10x20 second strides once a week. The rest was done at an easy, conversational pace. At my peak of 80 miles per week, over 70 were done at that pace. Building your aerobic system will give you far more bang for your buck than hard interval sessions will when it comes to marathon training.

If you go out and do 6 miles with 4 miles of hard intervals, what will you be able to run the next day? 4? Nothing? If you did that 6 mile run at an easy effort, could you run 6 more the next day? Maybe 8? Even 10? Doing those hard intervals hurts your training in two ways. It develops systems that you won't use for the race and it will prevent you from doing more of the aerobic work that you should be doing.

Just remember, you don't have to train fast to run fast.

You're totally right. Maybe I'll see how I feel and not push it. The training plan I'm looking at isn't crazy speed work...maybe one day a week of intervals, or a run of NS's, or a few miles of RP during the long run, or some strides after an easy run. It's usually only one or two days a week at most, of the 5 days a week I'll be running. I think that's manageable? Thoughts?

Yep, sounds reasonable to me. The goal should be to run easy enough that you an complete the next day's workout.

kath711

I ran my first marathon last October and used the Cool Running marathon program that gets all the way up to 26. I know it is not necessary but I wanted to know I could do it before the big day. I also did tempo runs and weekly speed sessions but that was just my preference and to changes things up. Hope this helps and good luck!

aswearingen22

What are you times for your 1/2 marathons? Sounds like you have a pretty solid routine going already so continuing on with what you have been doing until your marathon plan catches up sounds like a great way to slowly build up your mileage. Could speed it up a little and add in one extra 20+ miler towards in the end but I would try to stick to the taper before the race timeline. most importantly LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! try to stick close to the distances, but can always change things around and increase/decrease days depending on how you are feeling. In my experience, slowly building up total weekly mileage and long slow weekend runs were the most important to remain injury free. As for the mid week runs, 2,3 or 4 days and changing up between speed work, hills, tempo runs are all good as long as your getting in your weekly mileage. Have to keep it fun and interesting!

My 1/2 PR was last spring at 2:19 (very first half was 2:35). I'm hoping to pull a 2:14 or 2:09 this year...I'm thinking another full year of running and where I'm at on places now should allow for that (run long runs around 10:30 pace at the moment). I won't determine those goal paces for sure until right before the races (first one is 4/13), so that way I'll better know what I'm capable of. So, I'm not a fast runner at all.;)

laurasuzanne2006

I am also doing the TLAM finish it plan. I started last week as there are 2 weeks i may have trouble getting my runs in and want a little breathing room. Week one down and i am loving it!!! It is also my first full marathon. My last half i PRed at 2:25. I consider myself a slow runner. I don't think the speedwork is too bad really, just enough to give yourself a little push. I like hals for my last 1/2 marathon but i feel like TLAM will really help improve, not necessarily speed as it is my first as well but better oxygenation/endurance etc. I also think the variation is a good way to keep interested in the plan. As a working mom I also enjoy the mileage variation week to week. example going from 40 miles to 28 the following week and uping again the next. Not just the constant increase in mileage. Going along with that 4 runs some weeks 5 in others. I also like that one run is an absolute run and they let you know which one will be ok to skip if you can't do it.

laurasuzanne2006

oh yes, and i am also doing chicago