About Margarine
Replies
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LOL....exactly.
It's because trans fats are bad for us, and the producers of packaged food have a big area on their packaging to promote health and if they can say no trans fats that might help convince people that their product is healthy regardless of all the refined and unnatural other ingredients are there.
I don't understand your point. Why is it sneaky to say something with no fat has no trans fat?
I'm not going to argue about truth in food advertisement. But if there is no fat, there can't possibly be trans fat.
Truth in advertising = sneaky. I gotta say, someone putting a true statement on a package to increase sales bothers much less than most other advertising gimmicks.0 -
Margarine is but ONE MOLECULE away from being PLASTIC... and shares 27 ingredients with PAINT.
Yes! I learned and confirmed this in my organic chemistry classes in college, as a chem minor/ bio major, have learned lots of scary truths about some of these things... knowing this, I avoid it... never really liked it anyways! And as others have said, check ingredients but butter IS GOOD for you, healthy fats are GOOD!
Did they also teach you that water is one molecule away from being explosive hydrogen gas? That's an absolutely meaningless distinction, and one that you'd think a chem minor would be able to recognize as such.
Two scientists walk into a bar
The first one says “I’ll have some H2O.” The second one says, “I’ll have some H2O too.”
Then he dies.
:laugh:
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:0 -
Me too. Regardless, the devil is in the details. Like the link above I posted, trans fats in canola and soy oil to name just 2.
LOL....exactly.
It's because trans fats are bad for us, and the producers of packaged food have a big area on their packaging to promote health and if they can say no trans fats that might help convince people that their product is healthy regardless of all the refined and unnatural other ingredients are there.
I don't understand your point. Why is it sneaky to say something with no fat has no trans fat?
I'm not going to argue about truth in food advertisement. But if there is no fat, there can't possibly be trans fat.
Truth in advertising = sneaky. I gotta say, someone putting a true statement on a package to increase sales bothers much less than most other advertising gimmicks.0 -
Ever heard of CLA? that's what it's formally called in animals, different ball game, of course don't believe me and check yourself, that's what I normally do when something goes against my biased opinion of something, never use to do that I'll admit, or less so, but I've learned my lesson more than once over the last 10 years looking at nutritional science.It's my understanding that steak contains natural trans fat. Do you avoid that, as well?0 -
margarine tastes off to me. and if i'm eating a cupcake, it had better be made with butter and not some fake crap.
had to re-write a bunch of my grandma's recipes though since she was force fed the "margarine is better than butter line" for decades and can't get out of that rut.
I love those old recipes that call for oleo.
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Me too. Regardless, the devil is in the details. Like the link above I posted, trans fats in canola and soy oil to name just 2.
LOL....exactly.
It's because trans fats are bad for us, and the producers of packaged food have a big area on their packaging to promote health and if they can say no trans fats that might help convince people that their product is healthy regardless of all the refined and unnatural other ingredients are there.
I don't understand your point. Why is it sneaky to say something with no fat has no trans fat?
I'm not going to argue about truth in food advertisement. But if there is no fat, there can't possibly be trans fat.
Truth in advertising = sneaky. I gotta say, someone putting a true statement on a package to increase sales bothers much less than most other advertising gimmicks.
But there are only trace amounts of trans fats and the rest is all good fat. The reason trans fats are bad are that they can increase levels of LDL (bad cholesterol) in the blood. Good fats decrease the amount of LDL and increase the amount HDL (good cholesterol). So foods that have only trace amounts of fat that raise LDL and high amounts of fat that lower it, are going to lower it overall, and raise HDL at the same time. This is why they are considered heart heatlhy.0 -
That is true that there's very little, but when you look at dosage .4g's per serving, for example might not seem like a lot but if someone has switched to one of these oils for the rest of their lives, using them everyday, that adds up to be quite a bit and if you research what they do on a molecular level, you'll see why there trying to get rid of them, basically, why even consider them in the first place.But there are only trace amounts of trans fats and the rest is all good fat. The reason trans fats are bad are that they can increase levels of LDL (bad cholesterol) in the blood. Good fats decrease the amount of LDL and increase the amount HDL (good cholesterol). So foods that have only trace amounts of fat that raise LDL and high amounts of fat that lower it, are going to lower it overall, and raise HDL at the same time. This is why they are considered heart heatlhy.
As far as cholesterol is concerned again it depends. LDL is a bit of a red herring when it comes to heart health and so is cholesterol in general, even though their a popular concept and it makes everything sound simple, but there's more to it, like anything in life. For example LDL and HDL isn't actually cholesterol, their protein capsules that transport cholesterol throught the blood called lipoproteins. LDL have different particle sizes. WE have LDL, IDL, VLDL and we have pattern A and pattern B then we have what's called Lp(a) and we also have apoB. If it were as simple as lowering LDL then refined carbs and sugar would be the 900 lb gorilla because they lower LDL the most. For example if you replace monounsaturated fats with polyunsaturated fat you decrease HDL, and if you replace saturated fat with monounsaturated fat your reduce HDL, so HDL while important the focus should be on something else and that would be a type of LDL particle. If you research LDL-C which is just the total level of LDL in the blood you'll find studies where pretty much everyone agrees is not a good predictor of heart disease. When you consider most obese people and people with metabolic disorder have low levels of LDL cholesterol as does people that actually have heart attacks, then something else is going on. I'll give you something to research, ApoB and LDL-P.1 -
That is true that there's very little, but when you look at dosage .4g's per serving, for example might not seem like a lot but if someone has switched to one of these oils for the rest of their lives, using them everyday, that adds up to be quite a bit and if you research what they do on a molecular level, you'll see why there trying to get rid of them, basically, why even consider them in the first place.But there are only trace amounts of trans fats and the rest is all good fat. The reason trans fats are bad are that they can increase levels of LDL (bad cholesterol) in the blood. Good fats decrease the amount of LDL and increase the amount HDL (good cholesterol). So foods that have only trace amounts of fat that raise LDL and high amounts of fat that lower it, are going to lower it overall, and raise HDL at the same time. This is why they are considered heart heatlhy.
As far as cholesterol is concerned again it depends. LDL is a bit of a red herring when it comes to heart health and so is cholesterol in general, even though their a popular concept and it makes everything sound simple, but there's more to it, like anything in life. For example LDL and HDL isn't actually cholesterol, their protein capsules that transport cholesterol throught the blood called lipoproteins. LDL have different particle sizes. WE have LDL, IDL, VLDL and we have pattern A and pattern B then we have what's called Lp(a) and we also have apoB. If it were as simple as lowering LDL then refined carbs and sugar would be the 900 lb gorilla because they lower LDL the most. For example if you replace monounsaturated fats with polyunsaturated fat you decrease HDL, and if you replace saturated fat with monounsaturated fat your reduce HDL, so HDL while important the focus should be on something else and that would be a type of LDL particle. If you research LDL-C which is just the total level of LDL in the blood you'll find studies where pretty much everyone agrees is not a good predictor of heart disease. When you consider most obese people and people with metabolic disorder have low levels of LDL cholesterol as does people that actually have heart attacks, then something else is going on. I'll give you something to research, ApoB and LDL-P.
Yes, I know what LDL and HDL are. Your mixing a lot of topics and leaving a lot of stuff out of that rant above, but none of it changes the fact that research has shown vegetable oils to be healthy.
Here is a good article on fat and cholesterol research, if you are interested.
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/fats-and-cholesterol/0 -
lol, no it wasn't a rant, I was actually sharing some information on cholesterol that I though might open your mind a little more, I quess I was wrong.I disagree, you have no idea at all what HDL and LDL are.....otherwise we would be discussing it a little differently that we are now. yoy. I never said vegetable oils are unhealthy lol, I said certain ones, the refined ones. Olive oil, macadamia oil, coconut oil, these are all vegetable oils that I consume, and I love them, their fantastic lol.....you brain is on a one track mind, so yes vegetable oils is healthy, can you see the distinction, no probably not. Yes that link on oil was so detailed it made my brain explode.
That is true that there's very little, but when you look at dosage .4g's per serving, for example might not seem like a lot but if someone has switched to one of these oils for the rest of their lives, using them everyday, that adds up to be quite a bit and if you research what they do on a molecular level, you'll see why there trying to get rid of them, basically, why even consider them in the first place.But there are only trace amounts of trans fats and the rest is all good fat. The reason trans fats are bad are that they can increase levels of LDL (bad cholesterol) in the blood. Good fats decrease the amount of LDL and increase the amount HDL (good cholesterol). So foods that have only trace amounts of fat that raise LDL and high amounts of fat that lower it, are going to lower it overall, and raise HDL at the same time. This is why they are considered heart heatlhy.
As far as cholesterol is concerned again it depends. LDL is a bit of a red herring when it comes to heart health and so is cholesterol in general, even though their a popular concept and it makes everything sound simple, but there's more to it, like anything in life. For example LDL and HDL isn't actually cholesterol, their protein capsules that transport cholesterol throught the blood called lipoproteins. LDL have different particle sizes. WE have LDL, IDL, VLDL and we have pattern A and pattern B then we have what's called Lp(a) and we also have apoB. If it were as simple as lowering LDL then refined carbs and sugar would be the 900 lb gorilla because they lower LDL the most. For example if you replace monounsaturated fats with polyunsaturated fat you decrease HDL, and if you replace saturated fat with monounsaturated fat your reduce HDL, so HDL while important the focus should be on something else and that would be a type of LDL particle. If you research LDL-C which is just the total level of LDL in the blood you'll find studies where pretty much everyone agrees is not a good predictor of heart disease. When you consider most obese people and people with metabolic disorder have low levels of LDL cholesterol as does people that actually have heart attacks, then something else is going on. I'll give you something to research, ApoB and LDL-P.
Yes, I know what LDL and HDL are. Your mixing a lot of topics and leaving a lot of stuff out of that rant above, but none of it changes the fact that research has shown vegetable oils to be healthy.0 -
lol, no it wasn't a rant, I was actually sharing some information on cholesterol that I though might open your mind a little more, I quess I was wrong.I disagree, you have no idea at all what HDL and LDL are.....otherwise we would be discussing it a little differently that we are now. yoy. I never said vegetable oils are unhealthy lol, I said certain ones, the refined ones. Olive oil, macadamia oil, coconut oil, these are all vegetable oils that I consume, and I love them, their fantastic lol.....you brain is on a one track mind, so yes vegetable oils is healthy, can you see the distinction, no probably not.
That is true that there's very little, but when you look at dosage .4g's per serving, for example might not seem like a lot but if someone has switched to one of these oils for the rest of their lives, using them everyday, that adds up to be quite a bit and if you research what they do on a molecular level, you'll see why there trying to get rid of them, basically, why even consider them in the first place.But there are only trace amounts of trans fats and the rest is all good fat. The reason trans fats are bad are that they can increase levels of LDL (bad cholesterol) in the blood. Good fats decrease the amount of LDL and increase the amount HDL (good cholesterol). So foods that have only trace amounts of fat that raise LDL and high amounts of fat that lower it, are going to lower it overall, and raise HDL at the same time. This is why they are considered heart heatlhy.
As far as cholesterol is concerned again it depends. LDL is a bit of a red herring when it comes to heart health and so is cholesterol in general, even though their a popular concept and it makes everything sound simple, but there's more to it, like anything in life. For example LDL and HDL isn't actually cholesterol, their protein capsules that transport cholesterol throught the blood called lipoproteins. LDL have different particle sizes. WE have LDL, IDL, VLDL and we have pattern A and pattern B then we have what's called Lp(a) and we also have apoB. If it were as simple as lowering LDL then refined carbs and sugar would be the 900 lb gorilla because they lower LDL the most. For example if you replace monounsaturated fats with polyunsaturated fat you decrease HDL, and if you replace saturated fat with monounsaturated fat your reduce HDL, so HDL while important the focus should be on something else and that would be a type of LDL particle. If you research LDL-C which is just the total level of LDL in the blood you'll find studies where pretty much everyone agrees is not a good predictor of heart disease. When you consider most obese people and people with metabolic disorder have low levels of LDL cholesterol as does people that actually have heart attacks, then something else is going on. I'll give you something to research, ApoB and LDL-P.
Yes, I know what LDL and HDL are. Your mixing a lot of topics and leaving a lot of stuff out of that rant above, but none of it changes the fact that research has shown vegetable oils to be healthy.
Ah, the old "you don't agree with me so your mind is snapped shut argument" Very effective.0 -
snip...
Yes, I know what LDL and HDL are. Your mixing a lot of topics and leaving a lot of stuff out of that rant above, but none of it changes the fact that research has shown vegetable oils to be healthy.
lol, no it wasn't a rant, I was actually sharing some information on cholesterol that I though might open your mind a little more, I quess I was wrong.I disagree, you have no idea at all what HDL and LDL are.....otherwise we would be discussing it a little differently that we are now. yoy. I never said vegetable oils are unhealthy lol, I said certain ones, the refined ones. Olive oil, macadamia oil, coconut oil, these are all vegetable oils that I consume, and I love them, their fantastic lol.....you brain is on a one track mind, so yes vegetable oils is healthy, can you see the distinction, no probably not.
Let's break it down like this, and it feeds into why margarine and it's friends canola, cottonseed, safflower, sunflower, corn, and the very specific "vegetable oil" are not as friendly as their saturated or monounsaturated cousins.
These oils are higher in omega 6 fatty acids. For many people, these oils make up a very non-trivial portion of their diet. If you eat lots of processed foods, slather your morning 100 calorie bagel thin with margarine, cook with margarine or canola/seed oils, you probably are consuming a terrible ratio of Omega 6:Omega 3 fatty acids. Why is that important? Because Omega-6 fatty acids are pro-inflammatory. Chronic, systemic inflammation is associated with LOTS of health issues, including cardiovascular disease.
The second reason to avoid these types of oils is that are easily oxidized (rancid), and must be chemically deodorized (and I suppose something is also done to minimize a rancid taste). Oxidized PUFAs are one of the biggest culprits in inflammatory diseases.
http://butterbeliever.com/what-is-pufa/
I know nothing about this website, but I thought this write-up was well done, and in light of this thread, it seemed appropriate to link to a site call Butter Believer. Ha.0 -
snip...
Yes, I know what LDL and HDL are. Your mixing a lot of topics and leaving a lot of stuff out of that rant above, but none of it changes the fact that research has shown vegetable oils to be healthy.
lol, no it wasn't a rant, I was actually sharing some information on cholesterol that I though might open your mind a little more, I quess I was wrong.I disagree, you have no idea at all what HDL and LDL are.....otherwise we would be discussing it a little differently that we are now. yoy. I never said vegetable oils are unhealthy lol, I said certain ones, the refined ones. Olive oil, macadamia oil, coconut oil, these are all vegetable oils that I consume, and I love them, their fantastic lol.....you brain is on a one track mind, so yes vegetable oils is healthy, can you see the distinction, no probably not.
Let's break it down like this, and it feeds into why margarine and it's friends canola, cottonseed, safflower, sunflower, corn, and the very specific "vegetable oil" are not as friendly as their saturated or monounsaturated cousins.
These oils are higher in omega 6 fatty acids. For many people, these oils make up a very non-trivial portion of their diet. If you eat lots of processed foods, slather your morning 100 calorie bagel thin with margarine, cook with margarine or canola/seed oils, you probably are consuming a terrible ratio of Omega 6:Omega 3 fatty acids. Why is that important? Because Omega-6 fatty acids are pro-inflammatory. Chronic, systemic inflammation is associated with LOTS of health issues, including cardiovascular disease.
The second reason to avoid these types of oils is that are easily oxidized (rancid), and must be chemically deodorized (and I suppose something is also done to minimize a rancid taste). Oxidized PUFAs are one of the biggest culprits in inflammatory diseases.
http://butterbeliever.com/what-is-pufa/
I know nothing about this website, but I thought this write-up was well done, and in light of this thread, it seemed appropriate to link to a site call Butter Believer. Ha.
There are a lot of "if's" in your post.
Omega-6 is a necessary fat and reduced inflammation.
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/omega-3/What are omega-6 fatty acids? Should I be concerned about the ratio of omega-6 fatty acids to omega-3 fatty acids in my diet?
Omega-6 fatty acids (also known as n-6 fatty acids) are also polyunsaturated fatty acids that are essential nutrients, meaning that our bodies cannot make them and we must obtain them from food. They are abundant in the Western diet; common sources include safflower, corn, cottonseed, and soybean oils.
Omega-6 fatty acids lower LDL cholesterol (the “bad” cholesterol) and reduce inflammation, and they are protective against heart disease. So both omega-6 and omega-3 fatty acids are healthy. While there is a theory that omega-3 fatty acids are better for our health than omega-6 fatty acids, this is not supported by the latest evidence. Thus the omega-3 to omega-6 ratio is basically the “good divided by the good,” so it is of no value in evaluating diet quality or predicting disease.
Both poly- and mono-unsaturated fats are healthy:• Monounsaturated fats are found in high concentrations in olive, peanut, and canola oils; avocados; nuts such as almonds, hazelnuts, and pecans; and seeds such as pumpkin and sesame seeds.
• Polyunsaturated fats are found in high concentrations in sunflower, corn, soybean, and flaxseed oils, and also in foods such as walnuts, flax seeds, and fish; canola oil, though higher in monounsaturated fat, is also a good source of polyunsaturated fat. Omega-3 fats, which are fast becoming the darling of the supplement industry, are an important type of polyunsaturated fat. The body can’t make these, so they must come from food. An excellent way to get omega-3 fats is by eating fish two or three times a week. Good plant sources of omega-3 fats include chia seeds (sold as Salvia), flax seeds, walnuts, and oils such as flaxseed, canola, and soybean.
...
More recently, a randomized trial known as the Optimal Macronutrient Intake Trial for Heart Health (OmniHeart) showed that replacing a carbohydrate-rich diet with one rich in unsaturated fat, predominantly monounsaturated fats, lowers blood pressure, improves lipid levels, and reduces the estimated cardiovascular risk.
...
For polyunsaturated fats, the American Heart Association has set 8 to 10 percent of calories as a prudent target; there is evidence, though, that eating more polyunsaturated fat—on the order of 15 percent of daily calories—in place of saturated fat can lower heart disease risk0 -
I use Earth Balance which is organic and a good combination of fats. I would not touch margerine with a 10 ft pole.
I LOVE Earth Balance! Great product.0 -
Thanks for that post bcattoes.0
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snip...
Yes, I know what LDL and HDL are. Your mixing a lot of topics and leaving a lot of stuff out of that rant above, but none of it changes the fact that research has shown vegetable oils to be healthy.
lol, no it wasn't a rant, I was actually sharing some information on cholesterol that I though might open your mind a little more, I quess I was wrong.I disagree, you have no idea at all what HDL and LDL are.....otherwise we would be discussing it a little differently that we are now. yoy. I never said vegetable oils are unhealthy lol, I said certain ones, the refined ones. Olive oil, macadamia oil, coconut oil, these are all vegetable oils that I consume, and I love them, their fantastic lol.....you brain is on a one track mind, so yes vegetable oils is healthy, can you see the distinction, no probably not.
Let's break it down like this, and it feeds into why margarine and it's friends canola, cottonseed, safflower, sunflower, corn, and the very specific "vegetable oil" are not as friendly as their saturated or monounsaturated cousins.
These oils are higher in omega 6 fatty acids. For many people, these oils make up a very non-trivial portion of their diet. If you eat lots of processed foods, slather your morning 100 calorie bagel thin with margarine, cook with margarine or canola/seed oils, you probably are consuming a terrible ratio of Omega 6:Omega 3 fatty acids. Why is that important? Because Omega-6 fatty acids are pro-inflammatory. Chronic, systemic inflammation is associated with LOTS of health issues, including cardiovascular disease.
The second reason to avoid these types of oils is that are easily oxidized (rancid), and must be chemically deodorized (and I suppose something is also done to minimize a rancid taste). Oxidized PUFAs are one of the biggest culprits in inflammatory diseases.
http://butterbeliever.com/what-is-pufa/
I know nothing about this website, but I thought this write-up was well done, and in light of this thread, it seemed appropriate to link to a site call Butter Believer. Ha.
There are a lot of "if's" in your post.
Omega-6 is a necessary fat and reduced inflammation.
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/omega-3/What are omega-6 fatty acids? Should I be concerned about the ratio of omega-6 fatty acids to omega-3 fatty acids in my diet?
Omega-6 fatty acids (also known as n-6 fatty acids) are also polyunsaturated fatty acids that are essential nutrients, meaning that our bodies cannot make them and we must obtain them from food. They are abundant in the Western diet; common sources include safflower, corn, cottonseed, and soybean oils.
Omega-6 fatty acids lower LDL cholesterol (the “bad” cholesterol) and reduce inflammation, and they are protective against heart disease. So both omega-6 and omega-3 fatty acids are healthy. While there is a theory that omega-3 fatty acids are better for our health than omega-6 fatty acids, this is not supported by the latest evidence. Thus the omega-3 to omega-6 ratio is basically the “good divided by the good,” so it is of no value in evaluating diet quality or predicting disease.
Both poly- and mono-unsaturated fats are healthy:• Monounsaturated fats are found in high concentrations in olive, peanut, and canola oils; avocados; nuts such as almonds, hazelnuts, and pecans; and seeds such as pumpkin and sesame seeds.
• Polyunsaturated fats are found in high concentrations in sunflower, corn, soybean, and flaxseed oils, and also in foods such as walnuts, flax seeds, and fish; canola oil, though higher in monounsaturated fat, is also a good source of polyunsaturated fat. Omega-3 fats, which are fast becoming the darling of the supplement industry, are an important type of polyunsaturated fat. The body can’t make these, so they must come from food. An excellent way to get omega-3 fats is by eating fish two or three times a week. Good plant sources of omega-3 fats include chia seeds (sold as Salvia), flax seeds, walnuts, and oils such as flaxseed, canola, and soybean.
...
More recently, a randomized trial known as the Optimal Macronutrient Intake Trial for Heart Health (OmniHeart) showed that replacing a carbohydrate-rich diet with one rich in unsaturated fat, predominantly monounsaturated fats, lowers blood pressure, improves lipid levels, and reduces the estimated cardiovascular risk.
...
For polyunsaturated fats, the American Heart Association has set 8 to 10 percent of calories as a prudent target; there is evidence, though, that eating more polyunsaturated fat—on the order of 15 percent of daily calories—in place of saturated fat can lower heart disease risk
This is what drives me crazy.
The above paragraph from good old Harvard is crap. Yes.. both fish oil and canola oil are PUFAs. But notice above they stress the benefits of Omega 3. Which fish oil is great for. But...
Safflower, Sunflower, Corn, Peanut, Sesame and cottonseed oils have 0% Omega 3 fatty acids. They're pure Omega 6 crap that are fine in very limited amounts, but unfortunately are used in almost every processed food, so most people eat more than a little bit.
Canola oil has some Omega-3 (hooray!) but the ratio still sucks: 20:9. Soybean oil is worse, at 51:7. So yes, these 2 PUFAs have some Omega 3 (thanks, Harvard, for mentioning them), but a crap load of Omega 6. And if you eat lots of processed foods, you are consuming a lot of these. There are different estimates, but Omega6:3 ratios in American may range from an average of 10:1 to 25:1, when ideal is 1:1.
http://chriskresser.com/how-too-much-omega-6-and-not-enough-omega-3-is-making-us-sick
I will happily chow down on my monounsaturated coconut oil, avocados and almonds. I will thoroughly enjoy my polyunsaturated wild-caught salmon and sardines, and drizzle my tomatoes with olive oil. I will gleefully saute my food in saturated butter and bacon grease.
I'll leave the "healthy" corn oil and "butter-like spreads" to you.1 -
THIS is why i immediately went back to organic pasture butter.
I'm NEVER going back to fake "butters" & "spreads" again! :sick:0 -
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Isn't the real problem with margarine an environmental one? If it's made from rapeseed oil or whatever then its popularity will mean huge 'green deserts' of a single crop.
This isn't especially great for pollinators and it's generally a bad thing for biodiversity, since species beget other species.
That's why I use butter.
http://conservationbytes.com/2010/03/11/global-pollinator-declines/0 -
THIS is why i immediately went back to organic pasture butter.
I'm NEVER going back to fake "butters" & "spreads" again! :sick:
If by "this" you mean the OP, then you should read the rest of the thread, including the Snopes article posted on the first page.0
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