I want to add a Vegan day to my current diet.

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  • ironanimal
    ironanimal Posts: 5,922 Member
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    Bump. These links are all well and good but don't come close to providing the answer wellbert, and to a lesser extent, I am looking for.
  • CoachReddy
    CoachReddy Posts: 3,949 Member
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    No dairy, no eggs. Real vegan.

    Here are the parameters:

    Maximum Caloric Value = 2200 Calories.
    Minimum Protein: 200g
    Carbs and Fat can be any remainder. I do prefer fat over carbs, generally.

    Food restrictions:
    No carrageenan due to dietary sensitivty. (Vegetarian bulking agent made from seaweed.)
    Absolutely no soy
    Not interested in chugging gallons of hemp protein.

    Food preferences:
    Whole, natural foods. No 'fake meat mix' for example.
    Would like to avoid any kind of supplements like protein powder mixes.



    Vegans, please make suggestions as to how I can meet these goals.
    If it's delicious enough, I'll probably move to 2-3 days of vegan eating.
    Just to be nicer to the environment, my stomach, and animals. :flowerforyou:

    Best thing I can suggest - buy yourself a copy of the book "Thrive: A Vegan Nutrion Guide to Optimal Performance in Sports and Life"

    Literally obsessed with it. He's done tons of research and has come up with a vegan diet that not only tastes great (tons of recipes) but helps him perform at an incredibly high level (professional triathlete).
  • FredDoyle
    FredDoyle Posts: 2,273 Member
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    To play devil's advocate, 0.8 grams/kg body weight is healthy adequate protein intake:

    http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/fn-an/nutrition/reference/table/ref_macronutr_tbl-eng.php

    Why do you need so much? :devil:
  • BarackMeLikeAHurricane
    BarackMeLikeAHurricane Posts: 3,400 Member
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    I do vegetarian about 3-4 days a week, but I'm not sure I could get to the vegan state. I'm a cheese addict...I'm curious to hear some ideas myself. Not sure how you get to 200g of protein with all of those restrictions. :drinker:
    Clearly, you've never tried almond cheese. My roommate couldn't tell the difference.
  • ironanimal
    ironanimal Posts: 5,922 Member
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    Why do you need so much? :devil:

    You need a lot more to build substantial amounts of muscle, and higher protein intake has shown to have a muscle-sparing effect in weightloss.
  • FredDoyle
    FredDoyle Posts: 2,273 Member
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    Why do you need so much? :devil:

    You need a lot more to build substantial amounts of muscle, and higher protein intake has shown to have a muscle-sparing effect in weightloss.
    Ok. Quantify "more" and "higher".
  • ironanimal
    ironanimal Posts: 5,922 Member
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    Why do you need so much? :devil:

    You need a lot more to build substantial amounts of muscle, and higher protein intake has shown to have a muscle-sparing effect in weightloss.
    Ok. Quantify "more" and "higher".
    Generally speaking 1g/lb of LBM (fat free mass) for muscle building. Depends on individual protein synthesis though, which is immeasurable, so more or less is suitable for some individuals.

    Not really interested in the "why do you need so much protein?" debate. It just starts arguments. Just looking for suggestions of how to achieve my desired protein intake from a vegan diet :)
  • FredDoyle
    FredDoyle Posts: 2,273 Member
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    Why do you need so much? :devil:

    You need a lot more to build substantial amounts of muscle, and higher protein intake has shown to have a muscle-sparing effect in weightloss.
    Ok. Quantify "more" and "higher".
    Generally speaking 1g/lb of LBM (fat free mass) for muscle building. Depends on individual protein synthesis though, which is immeasurable, so more or less is suitable for some individuals.

    Not really interested in the "why do you need so much protein?" debate. It just starts arguments. Just looking for suggestions of how to achieve my desired protein intake from a vegan diet :)
    Oh, I've seen the 1g/lb of LBM quoted lots of times on here but any studies cited seemed to indicate less was actually required...
  • ironanimal
    ironanimal Posts: 5,922 Member
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    Oh, I've seen the 1g/lb of LBM quoted lots of times on here but any studies cited seemed to indicate less was actually required...
    Quoted from the Eat, Train, Progress group;
    The purpose of this is not to try to pinpoint what an "optimal" protein intake is, I'm not sure we'll ever have a concrete answer to that question anyway. Absent any evidence that high protein intake is harmful, there's really no good reason to take a mimilist approach to protein intake.

    The current RDA for protein intake is .8g/kg of bodyweight. The real kicker here is that they claim that there is no benefit to eating more than that. I simply want to arm people with research that disputes this.

    So, here we go:

    1.4-2g of protein per kg of bodyweight is beneficial for individuals engaged in intense exercise:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20048505
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19278045
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17908291
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18500966

    2-3g/kg is beneficial for athletes:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14971434

    Older subjects lost lean mass getting the RDA protein recommendations (.8g/kg):
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11382798

    Double the RDA outperformed the RDA for individuals in a calorie deficit:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/495538
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16046715

    Triple the RDA outperformed the RDA for individuals in a calorie deficit: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19927027

    Subjects with a 1.5g/kg protein intake lost fat and gained lean mass:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10838463

    Of people that don't exercise, high protien intake causes less lean-mass loss:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17299116
    I haven't read through them all, but I'm satisfied with my results with my protein intake being in that ballpark, thusly, any change in diet would need to meet that intake.

    Can we get back to the original question now? :D
  • CoachReddy
    CoachReddy Posts: 3,949 Member
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    honestly... no one needs as much protein for muscle growth as they think they do.

    vegan bodybuilders exist. you really don't need more evidence than that.
  • CoachReddy
    CoachReddy Posts: 3,949 Member
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    Not really interested in the "why do you need so much protein?" debate. It just starts arguments. Just looking for suggestions of how to achieve my desired protein intake from a vegan diet :)

    though this is why I suggest grabbing "Thrive" - dude is a top tier athlete and created a vegan plan for other athletes. at least check it out. could be massively beneficial.
  • ironanimal
    ironanimal Posts: 5,922 Member
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    honestly... no one needs as much protein for muscle growth as they think they do.

    vegan bodybuilders exist. you really don't need more evidence than that.
    The majority of which are assisted by AAS, so can better synthesise smaller protein intakes. Many others were non-vegan and made the switch having already built substantial amounts of muscle.
  • freckles_cmj
    freckles_cmj Posts: 205 Member
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    Ask a gorilla. they are vegan and sure as heck have a lot of lean muscle mass, and are pretty closely related to us humans. I doubt they get that much protein however.

    The link I posted was all about vegan body building and they listed several diet plans...I didnt look at them all but it sure sounds like it could answer your question. I just dont think you should be so hung up on the protein....if your body has plenty of good quality carbs from good sources to burn for fuel, then all the protein goes to muscle development and repair, not being burned for fuel which is our bodies last resort after it burns the carbs and fats.
  • CoachReddy
    CoachReddy Posts: 3,949 Member
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    honestly... no one needs as much protein for muscle growth as they think they do.

    vegan bodybuilders exist. you really don't need more evidence than that.
    The majority of which are assisted by AAS, so can better synthesise smaller protein intakes. Many others were non-vegan and made the switch having already built substantial amounts of muscle.

    maybe, but a majority doesn't mean all. :)

    hey if you wanna stick with the protein intake you're comfortable with, that's fine. just know it's going to be incredibly hard to reach those levels eating a vegan diet, and if that's something you're interested in learning about, you may need to expand your mind a little bit in regard to protein intake. wish you the best though, i'm doing the same thing right now - testing the waters of veganism. Managed 3,200 calories of it yesterday with about 170g protein. So it's totally doable.
  • ironanimal
    ironanimal Posts: 5,922 Member
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    honestly... no one needs as much protein for muscle growth as they think they do.

    vegan bodybuilders exist. you really don't need more evidence than that.
    The majority of which are assisted by AAS, so can better synthesise smaller protein intakes. Many others were non-vegan and made the switch having already built substantial amounts of muscle.

    maybe, but a majority doesn't mean all. :)

    hey if you wanna stick with the protein intake you're comfortable with, that's fine. just know it's going to be incredibly hard to reach those levels eating a vegan diet, and if that's something you're interested in learning about, you may need to expand your mind a little bit in regard to protein intake. wish you the best though, i'm doing the same thing right now - testing the waters of veganism. Managed 3,200 calories of it yesterday with about 170g protein. So it's totally doable.
    I'm always open minded, but my 200g a day has given me the best results. Best of luck to you too :)
  • AEFidgets
    AEFidgets Posts: 243
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    Ask a gorilla. they are vegan and sure as heck have a lot of lean muscle mass, and are pretty closely related to us humans. I doubt they get that much protein however.

    The link I posted was all about vegan body building and they listed several diet plans...I didnt look at them all but it sure sounds like it could answer your question. I just dont think you should be so hung up on the protein....if your body has plenty of good quality carbs from good sources to burn for fuel, then all the protein goes to muscle development and repair, not being burned for fuel which is our bodies last resort after it burns the carbs and fats.

    Actually gorillas are not vegan. Unless termites and other insects are made from tofu. Or perhaps the occasional birds egg. Gorillas are omnivores just like humans, chimps and monkeys.
    I think you can get adequate amounts of protein as a vegan but avoiding soy makes it even more difficult. Personaly I'll stick to eating the tasty critters.
  • belgerian
    belgerian Posts: 1,059 Member
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    How about fage greek yougurt? I know it is made from milk but is that appropiate for vegan diet some say yes some say no?. It is Gluten Free? I myself do not consider my self Vegan but I really only eat meat a couple times a month.
  • CoachReddy
    CoachReddy Posts: 3,949 Member
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    How about fage greek yougurt? I know it is made from milk but is that appropiate for vegan diet some say yes some say no. It is Gluten Free?

    milk is not a part of a vegan diet. there's no "some say yes" about it. if you say yes you're not vegan. :)
  • belgerian
    belgerian Posts: 1,059 Member
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    How about fage greek yougurt? I know it is made from milk but is that appropiate for vegan diet some say yes some say no. It is Gluten Free?

    milk is not a part of a vegan diet. there's no "some say yes" about it. if you say yes you're not vegan. :)

    Well that answer my question. Thanks
  • FredDoyle
    FredDoyle Posts: 2,273 Member
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    The one study posted above (although a subject count of 10) about males 55-77 is interesting. It seems to conclude that the RDA of .8g/kg/day was inadequate to maintain LBM in that age group. This leads to a catch 22 situation for us older gents as a reduced RDA for protein is suggested for maintaining kidney health.
    Sorry to hijack. I'm an omni anyway. I've eaten most critters that I've come across.

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