TDEE BMR

angelb1983 · January 2013

I'm so confused about this TDEE, BMR concept. I went to a website to calculate mine and it said I have a TDEE of over 2600 calories which is pretty relieving on the days I go over. What I'm unsure of is that it says I have a BMR of 1700. Could I really eat that much and lose? How accurate are the calculators? How accurate is BMR TDEE?

WBB55 · January 2013

Use a couple different websites and use an average of all the numbers they give you. I don't know how tall you are, and what you're setting for your activity levels, but if you're over 200 pounds right now, then yes, your BMR could easily be 1700.

beachlover317 · January 2013

Learn what you need to know through the link below. It is awesome information and will change your life. :flowerforyou:

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/654536-in-place-of-a-road-map-2-0-revised-7-2-12

walkdmc · January 2013

Very helpful! Thanks for sharing.

beachlover317 · January 2013

You are welcome. There is also a MFP group by the same name for questions/support as well.

gbmakeup · January 2013

Hello to all the experienced Dieters.

I have to say, until I joined MFP I didnt have a clue about BMR or TDEE. I kind of guessed you should eat about 2000 cals a day and eat hardly any junk food and would lose weight. I tried that method for the first 4 days of my diet and lost 2lb. I also added a interval fitness DVD to my walking regime. I then joined the site, and worked out my BMR as 1822. Ok so the planner then suggested that as I want to lose 2lb per week I should aim for 1650 calories. Ok, thats fine too - I sometimes couldnt even manage that. But then the whole exercise thing really confused me. It said that after exercise..even just my walk, my net cals were around 1000.
Great I thought!! Im eating hardly anything, the weight will drop off. Until I weighed in today. I weighed 3lbs more than I did 5 days ago and was 1/2 inch shorter Lol! I used the same scales in a shop both times. SO tell me, am I doing something wrong? I do let myself have treats, but if they are within my calorie goal each day does it matter? I dont eat back my exercise calories either.
I have kept a photo diary for the last 15 days (one of which on my profile pic is day 1 and day 14) and I am obviously lsoing inches..but where the hell are the lbs?!!!

Help!!and please add me if you are a like minded dieter : )

mfaine · January 2013

The problem, as I see it, is that there isn't' any authoritative source for this information. You can read about it and use calculators on 10 different sites and get 10 different explanations for calculations and how it all works. Also, you can't count on U.S. government nutrition information either. So where do you go? We need a source for information that is unbiased, factual, based on real science, and backed by real world studies, and also isn't trying to sell you anything.

DeanBurrows · January 2013

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=121703981&page=1

This is the best write-up i've seen regarding BMR and TDEE and there are a few formulas for BMR but the one used the most tends to be highly inaccurate.

Have a good read of that and work it out.

neverstray · January 2013

Lol. When you find rainbow farting unicorns, lemme know.

sandradev1 · January 2013

Love this^^^^^
Also the link to the road map works and is certainly not trying to get you to buy anything. As Beachlover says there is a group by the same name where you can see how many people have found this very successful.

quirkytizzy · January 2013

Take an average of what the various sites say, maybe? I followed MFP guidelines for awhile and then started seeing what other people are doing. I started incorporating what would work for me and that's turned out well. The massive amounts of information out there can be overwhelming (it's always stymied me before), so keeping it really simple - calories in, calories out - has given me the confidence to wade through it all. It also gives me the breathing room to try new things and the pressure to have be ON IT ALL THE TIME 100% RAAARRRR has faded. That helps, too.

gbmakeup · January 2013

I have indeed been on countless BMR TDEE calculators and actually they are usually all within 100 calories of each other. I think I could become way to obsessed with being bang on each day. My body completely changed shape in days when I just cut out the crap, exercised more and ate in or around my BMR. I guess its a lifestyle change, not a quick fix. Just one question still bothering me. If I ate a chocolate bar worth say 200 calories a day - but it was within my calorie goal - would it eventually make me put on weight.

Lots of luck to you all.

#diet tip of the day. Cool a jug of green tea, keep in fridge. Pour a pint glass twice a day, add ice, fresh citrus fruit segments - Hell, add a straw and umbrella too : )

mfaine · January 2013

The pithy attitude of your response is a big part of why I don't want to live on this planet anymore. You act as though I'm being completely unreasonable but, in fact, this is something that any population should expect, no demand, from their government but it is because of this attitude that we just have to take what we can find online, at our own risk.

I don't need it much at this point but these guidelines should be available to anyone who needs them. Human nutrition and how to gather objective metrics, in a way that is accurate and consistent for anyone within an insignificant margin of error, has been known for a long time but that information doesn't usually make it down to laymen in a way they can use to control their weight and optimize their health through nutrition, mostly because of politics, lobbyists, corporate interests, etc. Your attitude only serves to perpetuate this state. Take a look at U.S. Nutritional Guidelines to see what I mean.

I respect @Helloitsdan and like his road map, I mean at least he is trying. However, ultimately you can't say his information is any more accurate or official than the next guy who posts something on a forum. It has no authoritative weight. You can't expect people to put their health in the hands of some guy online. There needs to be accountability for such things, and that is probably why MFP doesn't get involved. His is the best advice I've seen on MFP boards, but then that bar is kind of low.

If it helps, think of it like a Scrabble dictionary. If there were a disagreement, how would one settle it? That is all I'm asking for and I don't think it is too much to ask. The reason that works is because all of the parties involved trust the source above all.

quirkytizzy · January 2013

Pithy is not bad. Orange PITH - now that stuff''s gross. Get's hung up on in my teeth, tastes terrible.

As per wanting an established guideline - I get that. And I understand the frustration of not receiving it. We all must do what we can in the meantime. In the place of an iron-clad set of rules, things that aren't going to immediately (or seemingly long-term) harm you seem preferable to NO information at all.

Maybe someday we'll get all the info. That'd be great. It'd eliminate a lot of aggravating broscience (my new favorite word). And being upset about it isn't bad - the squeaky wheel gets the grease, it helps with push TO get those guidelines.

But at this time, it is what it is. Do the research, see what works, and have the patience to try again. I'm rather convinced that's the entirety of life.

MysticRealm · January 2013

I just switched from 1500 cals a day to 1800 cals a day. Last week I ate at that number, with 2 whoops 3000 cals days (stress/birthday) and lost 2 pounds! I can eat so much, it's awesome and I lose weight!

mfaine · January 2013

@quirkytizzy - Great response, and I agree completely. It is a shame but that is the state of things. I'm only saying, that we shouldn't be satisfied with the status quo and we should strive for better more authoritative sources. I love the word "broscience", it is such an apt description of what we see so much of on MFP. I sometimes hesitate to recommend MFP because I'm afraid that many people aren't good at separating the broscience from actual science and I don't want to be responsible for the results.

sandradev1 · January 2013

I think that the Road Map works for most of the parties involved in using it, because we understand that the figures are 'best' estimates. The information on the Map itself tells users to re-assess the numbers after losing each 5 lb as lower/higher weight will then alter all the data.

None of us are a 'special snowflake', but then again we are not all the same. It would be impossible for any government to come up with an 'off the peg' calculation that fitted everybody, let alone a global calculator. BMR, TDEG, and TDEE numbers are rapidly moving targets and at best you will only ever get an estimate.

MysticRealm · January 2013

Even if there isn't any science or facts that someone can post about tdee and bmr, I don't get what could be bad about eating as much food as you can while still losing weight? I would much rather eat 1800 calories a day and lose weight than eat 1000 calories a day.

sandradev1 · January 2013

Totally agree. Also when we get to target weight and need to maintain, how much more frightening will it be to increase from 1000 cals to 2000 cals. It will involve another total change in eating pattern. Whereas just increasing by up to 500 cals maximum will be no sweat - a small increase in portion size and we're there.

dinomomma · January 2013

What is the link to the group?

sandradev1 · January 2013

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/654536-in-place-of-a-road-map-2-0-revised-7-2-12

dinomomma · January 2013

That's just the post no?

DeanBurrows · January 2013

SOME SCIENCE FOR YOU!

BMR estimation formulas

Several prediction equations exist. Historically most notable one was Harris-Benedict equation, which was created in 1919.

The Original Harris-Benedict Equation:

for men, $34c6ddc1a75bfda4697f365db8e70996.png$

for women, $f630947dfd41972d0545d50853062482.png$

where P is total heat production at complete rest, m is the weight, h is the height, and a is the age, and with the difference in BMR for men and women being mainly due to differences in body weight. For example, a 55 year old woman weighing 130 lb (59 kg) and 5 feet 6 inches (168 cm) tall would have a BMR of 1272 kcal per day or 53 kcal/h (61.3 watts).

In 1984, the original Harris-Benedict equations were revised using new data. In comparisons with actual expenditure, the revised equations were found to be more accurate.

The Revised Harris-Benedict Equation:

for men, $ef16a6625f4aea439c51643586fb06fe.png$

for women, $c3a9b78068ab68551279791a6a270986.png$

The Mifflin St Jeor Equation:

It was the best prediction equation until 1990, when Mifflin et al introduced the equation:

$22cc21194c5a7831a85fbceae13c521c.png$ , where s is +5 for males and −161 for females.

According to this formula, the woman in the example above has a BMR of 1204 kcal per day. During the last 100 years, lifestyles have changed and Frankenfield et al showed it to be about 5% more accurate.

These formulas are based on body weight, which does not take into account the difference in metabolic activity between lean body mass and body fat. Other formulas exist which take into account lean body mass, two of which are the Katch-McArdle formula, and Cunningham formula. However, the Cunningham formula is used to predict RMR instead of BMR.

The Katch-McArdle Formula (BMR):

$a1c671b8d26d578279f4087ec4724fdf.png$ , where LBM is the lean body mass in kg.

According to this formula, if the woman in the example has a body fat percentage of 30%, her BMR would be 1263 kcal per day.

The Cunningham Formula (RMR):

$7e176045783b88b7a6fa935ff499d0ee.png$ , where LBM is the lean body mass in kg.

Since lean body mass is metabolically active vs. fat cells which need very few calories to be sustained, these formula tend to be more accurate, especially with athletes who have above average lean mass and little body fat.

To calculate daily calorie needs, the BMR value is multiplied by a factor with a value between 1.2 and 1.9, depending on the person's physical activity level.

Causes of individual differences in BMR
The basal metabolic rate varies between individuals. One study of 150 adults representative of the population in Scotland reported basal metabolic rates from as low as 1027 kcal per day (4301 kJ) to as high as 2499 kcal (10455 kJ); with a mean BMR of 1500 kcal (6279 kJ). Statistically, the researchers calculated that 62.3% of this variation was explained by differences in fat free mass. Other factors explaining the variation included fat mass (6.7%), age (1.7%), and experimental error including within-subject difference (2%). The rest of the variation (26.7%) was unexplained. This remaining difference was not explained by sex nor by differing tissue sized of highly energetic organs such as the brain.

Thus there are differences in BMR even when comparing two subjects with the same lean body mass. The top 5% of people are metabolizing energy 28-32% faster than individuals with the lowest 5% BMR. For instance, one study reported an extreme case where two individuals with the same lean body mass of 43 kg had BMRs of 1075 kcal/day (4.5 MJ) and 1790 kcal/day (7.5 MJ). This difference of 715 kcal (67%) is equivalent to one of the individuals completing a 10 kilometer run every day.

There is science behind BMR and therefore TDEE, just some people don't do the research.

Katch-McArdle formula below;

-For Men to calculate BMR = 66 + (13.7 x weight in kg) + (5 x height in cm) – (6.8 x age in years)

-For Women to calculate BMR = 655 + (9.6 x weight in kg) + (1.8 x height in cm) – (4.7 x age in years)

...For your weight, 1 kilogram = 2.2 pounds

...For your height, 1 inch = 2.54 cm

Example #1: You are a male, 35 years old, 6 foot tall (182.88 cm), you weigh 200 pounds (91 kg). Your basal metabolic rate (BMR) will be 66 + 1246.7 + 914.4 – 238 = 1989.1 calorie intake per day!

Example #2: You are a female, 35 years old, 5 feet 6 inches tall (170.69 cm), you weigh 132 pounds (60 kg). Your basal metabolic rate (BMR) will be 655 + 576 + 307.24 – 164.5 = 1373.74 calorie intake per day!

Once you know your BMR (basal metabolic rate) then use your daily activity factor to get your total daily energy expenditure (TDEE):

-Sedentary................BMR x 1.2 (little exercise)

-Lightly active...........BMR x 1.375 (light exercise)

-Moderately active.....BMR x 1.55 (moderate exercise)

-Very active.............BMR x 1.725 (hard exercise)

-Extremely active......BMR x 1.9 (hard exercise daily)

For example #1... if you are a moderately active male…your TDEE will be 1989.1 calories times your activity level of 1.55 which equals 3083 calories per day.

For example #2... if you are a moderately active female, your TDEE will be 1373.74 calories times your activity level of 1.55 which equals 2129.30 calories per day.

The Harris-Benedict equation has a separate formula for men and women and is not as accurate as the one shown above.

Flowers4Julia · January 2013

Exactly! I do follow the road map and the spreadsheet link that it gives. I originally lost my weight (35 pounds) eating the 1200 calorie nonsense regime. After I lost, I bumped up to maintenance calories - slowly - and began to gain. So frustrating because I had ultimately just yo-yo dieted!

After some researching I learned that the body is designed to survive a famine and it will adapt to live on very low calories.....so if that is what you give it, you will lose at first, but then the body learns to maintain with that. Add more calories in to your supposed maintenance level and the body will gain ..... But not if you don't cut back too severely. That's why the TDEE minus 10-20% is such a smart idea. And, yeah, it is a good idea to get an average of several calculators, which I believe the Road Maps spreadsheet does.

Now, I reset things and am eating an average of 1550 a day (which is more than I ever have) and I am losing the 5 pounds I had gained back, slowly but surely.

So, I'm with you, I want to eat and lose weight sanely and safely. You make perfect sense to me!! Good Luck to you!

quirkytizzy · January 2013

Sycthrex - your math is intimidating. It is, in fact, terrifying. :embarassed:

DeanBurrows · January 2013

It's just to back up the science is all, there is a very simple way towards the end of the post.

I'm just sick of people saying there is no research on this or case studies.

TDEE BMR

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