TDEE?

xLyric

Today I learned a new term: TDEE. I read the road map post and another, but they flew over my head. I think I got the general idea, but not enough for it to do me any good.

I went here: http://www.exrx.net/Calculators/CalRequire.html

The results were: BMR: 1651 (MFP says 1641) Activity: 585 and Total: 2236

***Where I'm unsure is what to do with those numbers.***

I have my goals set to 1000 calories a day. Before anyone flips out, I've heard it all before, I've been here a while, I KNOW. Instead of wasting your breath on telling me about starvation mode, I'm looking for someone who can help me understand what those numbers up there say I should really be eating to lose weight. And don't get me wrong, I am losing weight by doing this, but I've read enough to know that if I keep up 1000 a day (even if I have extra on the weekends to get it up) I'm going to stall. I'd like to be educated before that happens so I can do it right.

xLyric

Also, if it matters, I've got 30-40lbs to go before I reach my final goal.

xLyric

I forgot to add: What's confusing me the most is the stuff saying to eat AT LEAST your BMR.

My BMR is 1651. MFP says to eat at least 1200 to lose. I don't understand. I just really can't comprehend how eating MORE, especially that much more, means you lose weight, unless you're exercising, which I'm not.

KeepGoingRhonda

You should never eat below your BMR # , That is what you need just to live. Eating at your TDEE # is to maintain and very good to reset your metabolism if you have eaten at a very low cal diet. It is recommended to only cut 10 to 20% from your TDEE # to lose weight. There is a group here EM2WL (eat more 2 weigh less ) where you can get alot of info or google it for their website.

cubbies77

You're close to goal, so I would subtract 500 per day instead of 1000. That gives you 1736 calories per day. Otherwise, you'll be eating 1236, and that usually doesn't satisfy people who are exercising.

Once you get even closer, do the math again and subtract 250 per day instead of 500. That gives you half a pound per week.

Slow and steady wins the race and keeps you full of fuel.

Most people re-calculate every 5-10 pounds.

jzammetti

BMR is Basal Metabolic Rate - it is the number of calories they would feed you if your were in a coma in a hospital because it is the minimum number of calories necessary to support healthy organ function.

TDEE (Total Daily Energy Expenditure) takes into account your daily acitivy (because activity burns calories, even just doing laundry, etc) and sets a number for you to maintain your current weight. If you want to lose weight, you eat between your BMR number and your TDEE number - most people I know do a 20% cut in the TDEE number for weight loss.

determinedbutlazy

2236-20%=1788

Try eating at this level for a couple of months (not just a few days) and you should see the scale start to drop. It may climb a little initially, but that's only temporary. And remember to make GOOD food choices! Don't just eat a big mac every day to hit goal

xLyric

cubbies, I am not close to goal. I am a little more than halfway there, but I've still got 30-40 to lose. What are you subtracting from? This is what's confusing, some people want you to eat below and some want above.

Why does MFP set it below? MFP seems to think that you need to subtract from your BMR to lose. My body does not need 1700 calories to live or I'd have been dead a long time ago.

determinedbutlazy

cubbies, I am not close to goal. I am a little more than halfway there, but I've still got 30-40 to lose. What are you subtracting from? This is what's confusing, some people want you to eat below and some want above.

Why does MFP set it below? MFP seems to think that you need to subtract from your BMR to lose. My body does not need 1700 calories to live or I'd have been dead a long time ago.

Because MFP expects you to log every bit of exercise (walking, cleaning, daily stuff as well as workouts) in order for you to eat those calories back and maintain a sane calorie level. I know you don't believe it, but I've been eating at TDEE-20% after a plateau of a few weeks, and I've been dropping 2lbs a week. I eat around 1800 cals a day and it really works.

determinedbutlazy

Also, our goals are VERY similar (I started at 238 and my first goal is 170) and we've both lost almost the same amount! If you want to add me as a friend and see how I do things, please do, I love having friends with similar goals who I can drag over to the dark side.

We have cookies.

That we are allowed to EAT.

xLyric

Just for the cookies then, haha.

I don't know. I know that I'm not going to stay with 1000, but I wasn't anyway. It was mainly to jump start and see a result fast since I took a break and needed some motivation to keep on with it all. I think I'll give it another week at 1000, then 1100 for a couple of weeks, etc, and see what happens. If I get to 1600 or whatever and I'm not gaining or plateauing I might start to believe it all.

If I just jumped from 1000 to 1600 I would balloon, and nothing anyone says can convince me otherwise. I'm not saying anyone's wrong, I'm saying that my mind refuses to believe it.

Danni3ll3

Since you say you have been here a while, you know that there are two ways of looking at this. MFP expects you to be exercising and eating those calories back and you said yourself that you know eventually you are going to stall because you are eating too little, especially if you aren't eating your exercise calories back.

This is where the TDEE method comes in. It is a different way of looking at weight loss. What cubbies and Determined are telling you is that you must eat above your BMR but be subtracting 15 to 20% from your TDEE which they have done for you. Listen to what they said and set your calories to ~1700 and do not eat your exercise calories back.

I was stuck and went to the TDEE method and weight is slowly but steadily coming off. I must note that I am an old(er) lady (harder to lose weight as you get older) and this is working for me so it will work for you! ;-)

xLyric

Since you say you have been here a while, you know that there are two ways of looking at this. MFP expects you to be exercising and eating those calories back and you said yourself that you know eventually you are going to stall because you are eating too little, especially if you aren't eating your exercise calories back.

This is where the TDEE method comes in. It is a different way of looking at weight loss. What cubbies and Determined are telling you is that you must eat above your BMR but be subtracting 15 to 20% from your TDEE which they have done for you. Listen to what they said and set your calories to ~1700 and do not eat your exercise calories back.

I was stuck and went to the TDEE method and weight is slowly but steadily coming off. I must note that I am an old(er) lady (harder to lose weight as you get older) and this is working for me so it will work for you! ;-)

And don't eat them back? But if I set it to 1700, and exercised 500 off, I'd be netting 1200 still. I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just trying to understand this website's logic, haha. Why not eat 1200 and not exercise? How is that different?

determinedbutlazy

OK, for example, I do slim in 6 every day and run 2-3 miles every other day (on average)
I eat ~1800 cals a day NO MATTER WHAT.
So on days I run and work out, I net lower (about 1200) but on days I don't run or work out I net almost the whole 1800 cals. This means my calories average out over the week.

katevarner

Since you say you have been here a while, you know that there are two ways of looking at this. MFP expects you to be exercising and eating those calories back and you said yourself that you know eventually you are going to stall because you are eating too little, especially if you aren't eating your exercise calories back.

This is where the TDEE method comes in. It is a different way of looking at weight loss. What cubbies and Determined are telling you is that you must eat above your BMR but be subtracting 15 to 20% from your TDEE which they have done for you. Listen to what they said and set your calories to ~1700 and do not eat your exercise calories back.

I was stuck and went to the TDEE method and weight is slowly but steadily coming off. I must note that I am an old(er) lady (harder to lose weight as you get older) and this is working for me so it will work for you! ;-)

And don't eat them back? But if I set it to 1700, and exercised 500 off, I'd be netting 1200 still. I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just trying to understand this website's logic, haha. Why not eat 1200 and not exercise? How is that different?

Yes, that's true. But if you don't exercise at all, then your TDEE is lower and the amount you eat (TDEE-20%) won't be 1700 anymore.

eyeshuh

This website doesn't know what your body fat % is, or how active you are, or what you are doing. All it knows is that if you are dead set on extreme weight loss, that if you eat under 1200 calories for too long you will need to go to a hospital.

MFP does the least amount of math possible to give you a number. If you do the math yourself you are going to be much more likely to succeed.

I am 5'3" and I hardly ever eat less than 1800 calories. I have never had issues losing weight. I am still dropping. I ate 2100 calories on Saturday since I exercised off over 600 and didn't want to go under my BMR. I lost .2 lb.

You are going to lose weight at a super low amount of calories. But you are also going to stall, feel like crap, and then gain all the weight back. Then you'll be back on this website posting a new thread asking what you did wrong.

Just do it right the first time and save yourself the trouble.

karlalband

You should never eat below your BMR # , That is what you need just to live. Eating at your TDEE # is to maintain and very good to reset your metabolism if you have eaten at a very low cal diet. It is recommended to only cut 10 to 20% from your TDEE # to lose weight. There is a group here EM2WL (eat more 2 weigh less ) where you can get alot of info or google it for their website.

Thank you for posting this I needed to hear about this too. Will look EM2WL tomorrow.

Danni3ll3

And don't eat them back? But if I set it to 1700, and exercised 500 off, I'd be netting 1200 still. I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just trying to understand this website's logic, haha. Why not eat 1200 and not exercise? How is that different?

You said your TDEE was 2236 with exercise so that is what the others are using for the calculations. Yes, you could just eat 1200 and not exercise... that is up to you but then your TDEE would not be the same number without the exercise. It would then be 1700.

As to being argumentative, using the TDEE is not following MFP's logic or method. It is an alternative method where you set your own goals and calorie counts.

xLyric

Since you say you have been here a while, you know that there are two ways of looking at this. MFP expects you to be exercising and eating those calories back and you said yourself that you know eventually you are going to stall because you are eating too little, especially if you aren't eating your exercise calories back.

This is where the TDEE method comes in. It is a different way of looking at weight loss. What cubbies and Determined are telling you is that you must eat above your BMR but be subtracting 15 to 20% from your TDEE which they have done for you. Listen to what they said and set your calories to ~1700 and do not eat your exercise calories back.

I was stuck and went to the TDEE method and weight is slowly but steadily coming off. I must note that I am an old(er) lady (harder to lose weight as you get older) and this is working for me so it will work for you! ;-)

And don't eat them back? But if I set it to 1700, and exercised 500 off, I'd be netting 1200 still. I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just trying to understand this website's logic, haha. Why not eat 1200 and not exercise? How is that different?

Yes, that's true. But if you don't exercise at all, then your TDEE is lower and the amount you eat (TDEE-20%) won't be 1700 anymore.

Wait. Wait. I thought I had calculated my TDEE (BMR+Activity cals) with the fact that I don't exercise already in mind. I got that final number because I put very light activity levels, and that was purely because of school activity. Now I'm confused again.

Serah87

This website doesn't know what your body fat % is, or how active you are, or what you are doing. All it knows is that if you are dead set on extreme weight loss, that if you eat under 1200 calories for too long you will need to go to a hospital.

MFP does the least amount of math possible to give you a number. If you do the math yourself you are going to be much more likely to succeed.

I am 5'3" and I hardly ever eat less than 1800 calories. I have never had issues losing weight. I am still dropping. I ate 2100 calories on Saturday since I exercised off over 600 and didn't want to go under my BMR. I lost .2 lb.

You are going to lose weight at a super low amount of calories. But you are also going to stall, feel like crap, and then gain all the weight back. Then you'll be back on this website posting a new thread asking what you did wrong.

Just do it right the first time and save yourself the trouble.

^^^^ THIS!!!!!

karlalband

This is what I love about MFP. I had a hard time for almost 2 week now because I didn't understand. And everyone helps out so much with these post. Have a great evening.

xLyric

And don't eat them back? But if I set it to 1700, and exercised 500 off, I'd be netting 1200 still. I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just trying to understand this website's logic, haha. Why not eat 1200 and not exercise? How is that different?

You said your TDEE was 2236 with exercise so that is what the others are using for the calculations. Yes, you could just eat 1200 and not exercise... that is up to you but then your TDEE would not be the same number without the exercise. It would then be 1700.

As to being argumentative, using the TDEE is not following MFP's logic or method. It is an alternative method where you set your own goals and calorie counts.

That's not with exercise. That website asked my activity level, and I gave it, and it gave me that number. So it's saying I need to burn 500+ calories a day?

xLyric

This website doesn't know what your body fat % is, or how active you are, or what you are doing. All it knows is that if you are dead set on extreme weight loss, that if you eat under 1200 calories for too long you will need to go to a hospital.

MFP does the least amount of math possible to give you a number. If you do the math yourself you are going to be much more likely to succeed.

I am 5'3" and I hardly ever eat less than 1800 calories. I have never had issues losing weight. I am still dropping. I ate 2100 calories on Saturday since I exercised off over 600 and didn't want to go under my BMR. I lost .2 lb.

You are going to lose weight at a super low amount of calories. But you are also going to stall, feel like crap, and then gain all the weight back. Then you'll be back on this website posting a new thread asking what you did wrong.

Just do it right the first time and save yourself the trouble.

So when you eat 1800, do you exercise? Or is that your base line like 1200 is for others?

neurochamp

My body does not need 1700 calories to live or I'd have been dead a long time ago.

The reason you've been OK eating below BMR for a while is that you have extra energy stores (extra fat, muscle, etc.) that your body can burn as fuel to prevent your organs from shutting down. As long as you have weight to lose, eating below BMR won't kill you.

As you drop weight, though, your body will burn both fat AND muscle. By breaking down muscle, your BMR will also decrease - it takes a lot of energy for your body to maintain muscle, so if you are eating at a severe calorie deficit your body will decrease the amount of muscle that it has to feed so it can conserve energy for your vital organs.

The bottom line is this: if you have a lot of weight to lose (and don't mind losing some muscle mass), eating 1100-1200 calories per day WILL work. But keep in mind that muscle requires a lot of energy to maintain (having more muscle = higher BMR = more calories that you can eat and not gain a lot of excess fat), so eventually you will want to (1) eat at least your BMR every day, and (2) do exercises that help build muscle. These two things will help you reach and maintain a healthier body composition.

I have read that, as a general rule, you should eat between your BMR and TDEE to lose weight. This makes sense, because you are feeding your vital organs by eating above BMR, but you're still eating fewer calories than you burn in a day through activity; as long as your TDEE estimate is fairly accurate, you SHOULD lose weight doing this.

eyeshuh

This website doesn't know what your body fat % is, or how active you are, or what you are doing. All it knows is that if you are dead set on extreme weight loss, that if you eat under 1200 calories for too long you will need to go to a hospital.

MFP does the least amount of math possible to give you a number. If you do the math yourself you are going to be much more likely to succeed.

I am 5'3" and I hardly ever eat less than 1800 calories. I have never had issues losing weight. I am still dropping. I ate 2100 calories on Saturday since I exercised off over 600 and didn't want to go under my BMR. I lost .2 lb.

You are going to lose weight at a super low amount of calories. But you are also going to stall, feel like crap, and then gain all the weight back. Then you'll be back on this website posting a new thread asking what you did wrong.

Just do it right the first time and save yourself the trouble.

So when you eat 1800, do you exercise? Or is that your base line like 1200 is for others?

My baseline, based on my TDEE-20% set to being "lightly active" is 1550. If I didn't exercise at all, I would lose weight if I ate 1550 calories.

Since I exercise different amounts every day, that is why I set my TDEE estimation at "lightly active". That means that if I exercise, I am now no longer at my estimated TDEE. My activity level is above it, so, I have to eat back all of those exercise calories in order to make sure my body is getting the 1550 it needs.

Now, I think my BMR is around 1300, which means I should never NET under 1300. However, I always try to keep my net as close to my TDEE-20% as I can, because I'm trying to stay as healthy as possible and eat as much as possible to still lose weight so that when I switch to maintenance it will be extremely easy to just eat a couple hundred more calories a day to maintain.

I know it's a lot to take in, but does that sort of make sense?

BMR: Least you should ever NET
NET: The amount of calories you have left after you subtract exercise
TDEE: I have mine set up on "lightly active" since I exercise different amounts ever day
TDEE -20%: That is the amount of calories that you can NET and still lose weight

xLyric

My body does not need 1700 calories to live or I'd have been dead a long time ago.

The reason you've been OK eating below BMR for a while is that you have extra energy stores (extra fat, muscle, etc.) that your body can burn as fuel to prevent your organs from shutting down. As long as you have weight to lose, eating below BMR won't kill you.

As you drop weight, though, your body will burn both fat AND muscle. By breaking down muscle, your BMR will also decrease - it takes a lot of energy for your body to maintain muscle, so if you are eating at a severe calorie deficit your body will decrease the amount of muscle that it has to feed so it can conserve energy for your vital organs.

The bottom line is this: if you have a lot of weight to lose (and don't mind losing some muscle mass), eating 1100-1200 calories per day WILL work. But keep in mind that muscle requires a lot of energy to maintain (having more muscle = higher BMR = more calories that you can eat and not gain a lot of excess fat), so eventually you will want to (1) eat at least your BMR every day, and (2) do exercises that help build muscle. These two things will help you reach and maintain a healthier body composition.

I have read that, as a general rule, you should eat between your BMR and TDEE to lose weight. This makes sense, because you are feeding your vital organs by eating above BMR, but you're still eating fewer calories than you burn in a day through activity; as long as your TDEE estimate is fairly accurate, you SHOULD lose weight doing this.

This makes sense, thanks. It also reinforces my plan of slowly working up to 1600 from where I am now instead of just jumping there.

karlalband

Since you say you have been here a while, you know that there are two ways of looking at this. MFP expects you to be exercising and eating those calories back and you said yourself that you know eventually you are going to stall because you are eating too little, especially if you aren't eating your exercise calories back.

This is where the TDEE method comes in. It is a different way of looking at weight loss. What cubbies and Determined are telling you is that you must eat above your BMR but be subtracting 15 to 20% from your TDEE which they have done for you. Listen to what they said and set your calories to ~1700 and do not eat your exercise calories back.

I was stuck and went to the TDEE method and weight is slowly but steadily coming off. I must note that I am an old(er) lady (harder to lose weight as you get older) and this is working for me so it will work for you! ;-)

And don't eat them back? But if I set it to 1700, and exercised 500 off, I'd be netting 1200 still. I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just trying to understand this website's logic, haha. Why not eat 1200 and not exercise? How is that different?

I started walking and my avrage weight loss was 2.4 lbs per week. Then I pick up my activity level exercising at the gym 2-3 hrs 4 to 5 times a week and my weight just stopped. I said the same thing "why" then I started to not feel well. I just didn't feel right. So because I have just started to understand TDEE I am slowly increasing my calorie intake and feeling better little by little. I have 90lbs to lose. Lol...well I just don't fully understand why eat more to lose either. But it's what I'm doing now. So be careful. And good luck.

eyeshuh

My body does not need 1700 calories to live or I'd have been dead a long time ago.

The reason you've been OK eating below BMR for a while is that you have extra energy stores (extra fat, muscle, etc.) that your body can burn as fuel to prevent your organs from shutting down. As long as you have weight to lose, eating below BMR won't kill you.

As you drop weight, though, your body will burn both fat AND muscle. By breaking down muscle, your BMR will also decrease - it takes a lot of energy for your body to maintain muscle, so if you are eating at a severe calorie deficit your body will decrease the amount of muscle that it has to feed so it can conserve energy for your vital organs.

The bottom line is this: if you have a lot of weight to lose (and don't mind losing some muscle mass), eating 1100-1200 calories per day WILL work. But keep in mind that muscle requires a lot of energy to maintain (having more muscle = higher BMR = more calories that you can eat and not gain a lot of excess fat), so eventually you will want to (1) eat at least your BMR every day, and (2) do exercises that help build muscle. These two things will help you reach and maintain a healthier body composition.

I have read that, as a general rule, you should eat between your BMR and TDEE to lose weight. This makes sense, because you are feeding your vital organs by eating above BMR, but you're still eating fewer calories than you burn in a day through activity; as long as your TDEE estimate is fairly accurate, you SHOULD lose weight doing this.

This makes sense, thanks. It also reinforces my plan of slowly working up to 1600 from where I am now instead of just jumping there.

That is not a bad plan. There are lots of people that start out at the extreme low and then correct it by slowly increasing their calories to the amount they should be eating.

Danni3ll3

Your TDEE must be calculated with what you normally spend in terms of energy in a day or averaged over a week. There are some calculators out there that will figure out in a more detailed fashion what you do daily in terms of activity and include the exercise you commit yourself to doing. The 20% reduction is based on that number so it must be accurate. And as said before, you should never eat below your BMR. That is just asking for trouble.

It really isn't that complicated.

Step one: Figure out your energy expenditure for the day. Use various calculators to get a number...it doesn't have to be super accurate. A few calories is not going to make a big difference.

Step two: Subtract 20% from that number.

Step three: Eat that amount of calories and do the exercise and activity you said you are doing on the calculator.

Step four: Watch the weight come off although you might go up the first week or two but don't give up.

Step five: Recalculate every 5 to 10 lbs.

I don't think I can make it any more simple than that! (Can you tell I used to teach primary kids? ;-) )

karlalband

This website doesn't know what your body fat % is, or how active you are, or what you are doing. All it knows is that if you are dead set on extreme weight loss, that if you eat under 1200 calories for too long you will need to go to a hospital.

MFP does the least amount of math possible to give you a number. If you do the math yourself you are going to be much more likely to succeed.

I am 5'3" and I hardly ever eat less than 1800 calories. I have never had issues losing weight. I am still dropping. I ate 2100 calories on Saturday since I exercised off over 600 and didn't want to go under my BMR. I lost .2 lb.

You are going to lose weight at a super low amount of calories. But you are also going to stall, feel like crap, and then gain all the weight back. Then you'll be back on this website posting a new thread asking what you did wrong.

Just do it right the first time and save yourself the trouble.

^^^^ THIS!!!!!

Thank you!!!!!

xLyric

This website doesn't know what your body fat % is, or how active you are, or what you are doing. All it knows is that if you are dead set on extreme weight loss, that if you eat under 1200 calories for too long you will need to go to a hospital.

MFP does the least amount of math possible to give you a number. If you do the math yourself you are going to be much more likely to succeed.

I am 5'3" and I hardly ever eat less than 1800 calories. I have never had issues losing weight. I am still dropping. I ate 2100 calories on Saturday since I exercised off over 600 and didn't want to go under my BMR. I lost .2 lb.

You are going to lose weight at a super low amount of calories. But you are also going to stall, feel like crap, and then gain all the weight back. Then you'll be back on this website posting a new thread asking what you did wrong.

Just do it right the first time and save yourself the trouble.

So when you eat 1800, do you exercise? Or is that your base line like 1200 is for others?

My baseline, based on my TDEE-20% set to being "lightly active" is 1550. If I didn't exercise at all, I would lose weight if I ate 1550 calories.

Since I exercise different amounts every day, that is why I set my TDEE estimation at "lightly active". That means that if I exercise, I am now no longer at my estimated TDEE. My activity level is above it, so, I have to eat back all of those exercise calories in order to make sure my body is getting the 1550 it needs.

Now, I think my BMR is around 1300, which means I should never NET under 1300. However, I always try to keep my net as close to my TDEE-20% as I can, because I'm trying to stay as healthy as possible and eat as much as possible to still lose weight so that when I switch to maintenance it will be extremely easy to just eat a couple hundred more calories a day to maintain.

I know it's a lot to take in, but does that sort of make sense?

BMR: Least you should ever NET
NET: The amount of calories you have left after you subtract exercise
TDEE: I have mine set up on "lightly active" since I exercise different amounts ever day
TDEE -20%: That is the amount of calories that you can NET and still lose weight

Kind of? So since my BMR is ~1600, if I ate that, with NO exercise, I would still lose weight? I am 22, 180lbs, 5' 9''. My activity comes from school. It just seems kind of high.