Workout Critique

carlom18

Hi, so I have changed my goal to build some muscle mass. I have worked out my calorie goal and the macros for it and have started to plan out various meals I can have.

I just want to see if this workout set up is decent for my goal.
It's 3 days per week of lifting and 1 to 2, possibly (as long as I can do this without wrecking gains) 3 days of cardio, once which includes soccer.

One one lifting day i'll do chest/ biceps with these workouts.
CHEST
Barbell Bench Press
Incline Dumbbell Bench Press
Incline DB Flyes
Seated Delt Flyes
BICEPS
Standing BB Curl
Incline DB Curl
Preacher Curl

After 1 day of rest, ill do legs/ triceps
LEGS
Squats (leg press atm due to back injury)
Calf Raises
Leg Extensions
Lying or Seated Leg Curl
TRICEPS
Dips
Tricep Pushdowns
DB Skullcrushers

After another days of rest ill do back/ shoulders:
BACK
Deadlift (BB or Seated Row due to back injury atm)
One Arm - DB Rows
Wide Grip Lat Pulldowns
Chin Ups (done to focus more on back than biceps)
SHOULDERS
DB Press
Seated Military Press
Rear Delt Flyes

All exercises will be done with 3 sets of 8 repetitions to start off with. i was thinking after every 4 weeks to do pause-rest OR drop sets OR supersets with every exercise to shock the body and break plateaus that may occur

So any advice, changes, critique is accepted and would love to hear feedback.

FullOfWin

From JUSA at bodybuilding.com forums

Why nobody is critiquing your workout (READ THIS before making a beginner program)
Prologue: I remember years ago when I first started working out and posting here I went out and put together a program all on my own. I thought it through very thoroughly and was very proud of myself when I'd finished. I made a new thread about it and asked for people to critique it in the title. I expected for the most part people would approve of it and might offer tiny suggestions to improve on it.

What I got was people telling me it was awful and I needed to scrap it completely and pick up a pre-made program which was created by someone who was an expert in the weightlifting/strength training or bodybuilding field.

I was upset and annoyed at the time, however it was sound advice. They were right. My program sucked, I did not know what I was doing and if I'd followed it I wouldn't have made any significant long-term gains.

Ask yourself this: Do you know more than Mark Rippetoe, Bill Starr or anyone who has studied strength and hypertrophy training for years and has had countless more years of empirical evidence to refine their knowledge on how to make progress in the gym? (The answer is, of course, "no").

Then why would you use some program you've made over one of theirs?

Why your program is terrible:
1) You've probably designed your program with way too many exercises and way too much volume for a beginner.
- Your program should consist primarily of the following exercises: the squat, the bench press, the deadlift, heavy rows and plenty of core work.
- You do not need endless sets of isolation work right now. You need to focus on compound movements and work on getting a solid base/frame.
- Right now you need to focus on correct form. Master squatting, benching and deadlifting. It's not easy. Odds are you're doing a terrible job on at least two of those exercises. Get a trainer, preferably one who looks like they lift and who has a background in powerlifting, and have them coach you on these essential lifts.

2) You've probably designed your program with way too much emphasis on mirror muscles and not enough on others.
- A good program will have at least as much focus, if not considerably more, on one's back than on one's pecs. Often you see people making programs which have several different benching variations (incline, decline, dumbells, etc), dumbell flies, cable crosses, etc... and then when it's time for back day they do some lat pulldowns and maybe some other fairly useless exercise. This can lead to muscle imbalances which later down the road will mess you and your rotator cuff up. You don't want that. Back in the day when lifters spend tons of time on their back doing rows, pullups, face pulls, deadlifts and other exercises and had strong backs -- nobody had RC problems.
- You're probably neglecting your legs, but this isn't always the case with newbies making programs.

3) You've probably designed your program and left out tons of crucial information.
- What are your goals? Strength? Hypertrophy? General fitness? What is your program supposed to do?
- What is your level of fitness? While it's usually "beginner", often times people don't even bother to say. An advanced lifter will have a drastically different routine than a beginner. Often times beginners don't realize this and they try to emulate a program designed for someone who has been lifting for years. Small muscles, like yours, don't need nearly as much stimulation to shock them into growth. If you overdo it, you'll just burn yourself out and get nowhere.
- Sometimes you see truly awful programs which just toss out a number of exercises and don't bother to elaborate and then they expect someone to critique it. Other times you get a little more. I've yet to see someone incorporate rest times or tempo into their home-made programs, despite it being important stuff. The answer is because you probably don't understand it, which is precisely why you shouldn't be making your own program to begin with.

4) Lastly, we see ****ty programs like yours every day. Often multiple. Frankly, it's tiresome. Please, read the stickies and pick a program which will work from there. There is a saying that "Anything will work... for about 6 weeks", which is probably true. You might see minor progress with whatever terrible program you've made but in time you will stall out and you will not make much, if any, progress. Think long-term, drop your ego and realize there are people out there who dedicate their lives to this and they know more than you. Find a program which suits your level of fitness and your goals. Use it.

5) Here are some excellent programs which I hope you consider looking into:

- Rippetoes aka Starting Strength: I can personally attest to this program being superb. It's designed for any novice or beginner lifter but also for more experienced lifters who might not be used to a program consisting of heavy, compound movements. This will get you strong and if your diet is in order you will get bigger.
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=998224

- Bill Starr 5x5 aka Madcow 5x5: I love this one. It's for an intermediate lifter and the focus of this program is to get you strong as quickly as possible. And it works.
http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow...Linear_5x5.htm

- HST (Hypertrophy/Strength Training): I haven't personally lifted in this style but plenty of people swear by it. This should work well for someone looking for gains in both strength and hypertrophy (ie. getting both strong and bigger muscles).
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=280813
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=714401

- German Volume Training: I've ran this and even having lifted for years before I ran it I was sore as a dog after pretty much every workout. DOMS doesn't necessarily mean it's working, but this is a pretty rough ride. GVT is designed to primarily make you bigger (hypertrophy).
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/luis13.htm

- There are PLENTY of other programs. Here is a guide here, one of the stickies you SHOULD have already read...
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=113707701

- You should also venture out into the other sections, the Nutrition and Exercise ones especially (not so much the misc, you're better off not going there). I can promise you that you're going to learn a lot and help your progress if you do.

FullOfWin

Almost no one if anyone at all should be doing body part splits working muscles once per week. You are 19. Smash muscles as often as you can recover from and eat lots of food.

Sarauk2sf

How long have you been seriously lifting?

FullOfWin

How long have you been seriously lifting?

not sure this thread would exist if the answer were going to be anything high

carlom18

How long have you been seriously lifting?

not sure this thread would exist if the answer were going to be anything high

9 months coming up 10 months. Despite the near aggressive approach, I believe you are right. So the best thing for me to do you reckon is to research a program that is within my current fitness level and will help me achieve my goals and have a personal trainer (someone who looks like they know what they are doing) to guide me along the way.

Sarauk2sf

How long have you been seriously lifting?

not sure this thread would exist if the answer were going to be anything high

9 months coming up 10 months. Despite the near aggressive approach, I believe you are right. So the best thing for me to do you reckon is to research a program that is within my current fitness level and will help me achieve my goals and have a personal trainer (someone who looks like they know what they are doing) to guide me along the way.

I would do one of the 'standard' full body workouts like Starting Strength or StrongLifts 5 x 5. You can always throw in a few accessory/iso lifts for areas where you feel that you are lagging.

Do that for a few months and assess where you are with regard to your level with your lifts.

ETA: if you are looking to bulk, you really do not need to be doing the cardio unless you want to do it to help with your soccer.

FullOfWin

How long have you been seriously lifting?

not sure this thread would exist if the answer were going to be anything high

9 months coming up 10 months. Despite the near aggressive approach, I believe you are right. So the best thing for me to do you reckon is to research a program that is within my current fitness level and will help me achieve my goals and have a personal trainer (someone who looks like they know what they are doing) to guide me along the way.

It's just slightly abbrasive. If you wanna get big, you gotta toughen up! Yes, you need to train with a volume, frequency, rep range, and exercise selection that matches your training level\recovery ability and goals.

taso42

FullOfWin and Sarauk2sf nailed it.

I made better gains in 2 months of basic barbell training than I did in 1.5 years of an elaborate split routine. I can tell at a glance your program is over-complicated and inefficient.

FitBeto

My old program looks likes yours - except I did no leg work at all

I was very skeptical about 5x5 but just doing squat, dead lift, bench, OHP, and row with no assistance (since all my life I had been doing Bodybuilding routines out of magazines lol). With progressive overload strength training I have made more gains than ever!

PhoenixFitLife

your split is elaborate but i wouldn't say ineffecient. it appears that your targeting different muscles each time and giving your body time for recovery. Just make sure that you are doing high volume for growth and getting plenty of clean carbs and protein

Loftearmen

Run starting strength until you can squat at least 500lbs. Then look to do something more specialized. You still havent built a base.

carlom18

Im not finished reading the starting strength post yet, but what i see is that it requires a press, a bench press, squats, deadlifts and power cleans (or a row in place of the clean). Now as stated in original post, i am recovering from a back injury (posture related) and have been told to stop deadlifts and squats till i have recovered. this is what is limiting me atm and is annoying the hell out of me becasue I can no longer do probably 2 of the most important lifts untill said so. I want to go ahead with the program (after i read all of it ofc) and am wondering what to do in this situation?

BTW thanks for advice!

Sarauk2sf

Im not finished reading the starting strength post yet, but what i see is that it requires a press, a bench press, squats, deadlifts and power cleans (or a row in place of the clean). Now as stated in original post, i am recovering from a back injury (posture related) and have been told to stop deadlifts and squats till i have recovered. this is what is limiting me atm and is annoying the hell out of me becasue I can no longer do probably 2 of the most important lifts untill said so. I want to go ahead with the program (after i read all of it ofc) and am wondering what to do in this situation?

BTW thanks for advice!

I would swap them out until you have recovered, You mentioned you can do leg press without aggravating it. Do all lifts involving your lower back aggravate it?

taso42

Run starting strength until you can squat at least 500lbs. Then look to do something more specialized. You still havent built a base.

While I agree with you in spirit, I don't agree on setting a specific number like that. I would say run Starting Strength until you are lifting at the intermediate level. Little sh*ts like me may never see a 500 lb deadlift. Hell, at 450 I'd be elite. Even Rippetoe would suggest changing ones programming to a more prioritization-based WELL before becoming elite. Let's face it, most of us will never lift at the elite level (but I'll be damned if I don't try to get there).

harr3mi

I think we may be in the same boat. Also have a lower back injury due to posture.

Wondering if I need to consider the same things. Just about a year into it and this is my routine. Of course it changes about 1x every 3-4 months

Monday: Chest/Back
Warm up - Max Push up/Max Pull up
Barbell Press Pyramids
Bent Over Row Pyramids
Incline Press Pyramid
Lat Pulldown Pyramid

Tuesday: Core Training (Varies)

Wednesday: Legs
Squats (Pyramid)
Deadlift Pyramid
Calf Raises x3 sets
Lunges x 15 Reps
Step up Romanian Deadlifts x 15 Reps

Thursday: Bi/Tri Shoulders
Concentration Curls Pyramid
Tricep Kickbacks Pyramid
Three Way Shoulders (Front, Side, Rear)
Swimmers Press
Curl up/Hammer Down

Friday/Saturday: Full Body/ Cardio

NikoM5

The older I get.. ok I'm not that old at 37 but I've been lifting for about 15 years. Anyways, the more experienced I get, the less complicated my workouts get. Currently I do only 3 exercises per workout. Mind you I do about 8 sets per exercises in keeping with "greasing the groove" philosophy. Most people can handle hitting a muscle group at least twice per week but I'm not one of those. My joints (mainly shoulders) much prefer the longer rest at once per week so I make sure to hit it hard when I do.

I think the best thing would be to use a tried and tested program like starting strength. Once you gain experience and strength you can begin to tailor a program to your own preferences and goals.

carlom18

Im not finished reading the starting strength post yet, but what i see is that it requires a press, a bench press, squats, deadlifts and power cleans (or a row in place of the clean). Now as stated in original post, i am recovering from a back injury (posture related) and have been told to stop deadlifts and squats till i have recovered. this is what is limiting me atm and is annoying the hell out of me becasue I can no longer do probably 2 of the most important lifts untill said so. I want to go ahead with the program (after i read all of it ofc) and am wondering what to do in this situation?

BTW thanks for advice!

I would swap them out until you have recovered, You mentioned you can do leg press without aggravating it. Do all lifts involving your lower back aggravate it?

I can do the bench press fine. The one arm DB row i was doing I can do fine. I have never done a BB row of ay sort so that will be new to me and I am not sure if that will aggravate my back. Its mainly the lifts that require me to stand, so the press I am not sure yet as I have never done that before but I'll have to give it a try and if it that hurts it while doing the press standing then I may have to the it seated ad then swap to standing.