180+ heart rate while running-- is this okay?

SandraNancy

So I've been running for about 7 months now, and use a heart rate monitor each time. I've noticed that there doesn't really seem to be a middle ground for me on heart rate. Even jogging lightly (12 minute mile), my heart rate is around 180. I can carry on a conversation and I feel fine, but everything I read says that that's too high. I'm 31, and my max heart rate is supposed to be 189, with 75% of that being about 142. At 142, I'm walking at my normal quick pace and feeling like I'm not expending any energy.

If I go any slower, I'll be walking! My doctor says I have low blood pressure, and I am in shape, 135 lbs and 5'7, with a body fat percentage of 21.9%. I run about 3-4 times a week, and about 2-3 miles each time (in addition to strength training). Resting heart rate throughout the day is about 70 bpm.

I've noticed that 190+ (which does happen as well) is where I start to feel like I'm working too hard, and if it hits that level I back off and walk until I'm back in the 140s. Today, I ran three laps (.25 miles) as fast as I could, which was about an 8 minute mile pace, and my heart rate got up to 220. I'm accustomed to high numbers, but I don't think I've ever seen it THAT high. I was giving it my all, and only did it for two minutes, but that seems excessive to me. And yet, while I felt like I was working hard, my heart rate was back in the 150s after a lap of walking.

Anyone else out there healthy but with a high heart rate? Should I be concerned? Any comments would be appreciated!

Mokey41

I'm 55 and my usual HR when I run is between 158 and 165 at about a 10 min mile. I can get up in the 170's and still feel alright, by 180 I can feel it's too high. I've always gone with the theory that as long as I feel OK that it isn't hurting anything. If I try to run in the "zone" I'm supposed to be in I'm barely moving.

SandraNancy

I'm 55 and my usual HR when I run is between 158 and 165 at about a 10 min mile. I can get up in the 170's and still feel alright, by 180 I can feel it's too high. I've always gone with the theory that as long as I feel OK that it isn't hurting anything. If I try to run in the "zone" I'm supposed to be in I'm barely moving.

*lol* Glad I'm not the only one who feels like being in their "zone" would practically mean standing still . I'm a novice runner, but I've been active in other ways for years. I cycle 5-6 days a week (when the ground isn't covered with snow), I do Moksha yoga, and Muay Thai as well. No matter what I'm doing, my heart rate is high.

natalie412

I am certainly no expert, but I think your perceived effort is more important. You just don't happen to fit the normal heart rate zone charts. If you are comfortable and can carry on a conversation in the 180s, then that is probably fine for you. I get pretty uncomfortable in the 170s, personally.

stackhsc

ive been running for a little over a year, 38 years old, almost 39. im in the same boat as you. at 6mph or 8 mph my heartrate is between 170-180. i get this rate after a few minutes of 6mph and its the same for a few minutes or 3 miles. im no doctor but add me to the feel your zone. i can tell when i am pushing to hard just by how i feel and breath etc.

scottb81

Generally a high heartrate at moderate running speeds indicates that your aerobic fitness needs improvement. The reason is that you are running all your runs at too high an intensity and are burning primarily glycogen. Your systems for burning fat are underdeveloped.

I am 53 and have been focusing on the aerobic system for a couple of months and now can run 8:30/mi at a HR of 130. My max is right around 172. So it is possible to run at a low heartrate but you have to develop the underlying systems to get there; primarily capillarization and mitochondrial development in the leg muscles. The capillaries allow more blood with more oxygen to reach the muscles and the mitocondria use the oxygen to burn fat to create energy.

dandandee

I would say so, that's fine.

If I were to stay in the 'optimal heart rate zone' I'd be barely moving on the elliptical and I'd have to stay at like level 1. Mine gets between 180-195 on there all the time yet I can still talk and I feel fine. To stay under 160 would be impossible for me.

Then again, I have a pretty high resting heart rate too (somewhere in the 90's I think)

SandraNancy

Generally a high heartrate at moderate running speeds indicates that your aerobic fitness needs improvement. The reason is that you are running all your runs at too high an intensity and are burning primarily glycogen. Your systems for burning fat are underdeveloped.

I am 53 and have been focusing on the aerobic system for a couple of months and now can run 8:30/mi at a HR of 130. My max is right around 172. So it is possible to run at a low heartrate but you have to develop the underlying systems to get there; primarily capillarization and mitochondrial development in the leg muscles. The capillaries allow more blood with more oxygen to reach the muscles and the mitocondria use the oxygen to burn fat to create energy.

How did you work on improving your aerobic fitness/developing the underlying system?

scottb81

Generally a high heartrate at moderate running speeds indicates that your aerobic fitness needs improvement. The reason is that you are running all your runs at too high an intensity and are burning primarily glycogen. Your systems for burning fat are underdeveloped.

I am 53 and have been focusing on the aerobic system for a couple of months and now can run 8:30/mi at a HR of 130. My max is right around 172. So it is possible to run at a low heartrate but you have to develop the underlying systems to get there; primarily capillarization and mitochondrial development in the leg muscles. The capillaries allow more blood with more oxygen to reach the muscles and the mitocondria use the oxygen to burn fat to create energy.

How did you work on improving your aerobic fitness/developing the underlying system?

You have to run a lot at low target heartrates. Over time the body adapts to being able to create the energy needed to run faster at those heartrates; the heart pumps more blood with each stroke, more capillaries develop to saturate the muscle fibers with oxygen, and the muscle fibers develop more and larger mitocondria to covert fat and glycogen to energy for muscle contraction. Burning more fat for energy is desirable because it creates much more energy per unit than glycogen and creates no lactate in the muscles but unlike glycogen it needs oxygen to convert. The ability to burn increasing amounts of fat lead to being able to run much longer without running out of gas and much faster before the muscles shut down from the waste products created by burning glycogen. Below is a short explanation of the training process I have posted elsewhere.

Basically what everyone should do is 12+ week of basebuilding every year at easy pace. The problem is that most people, me included, tend to run easy pace too hard for optimum development of the aerobic system. The result is that it never really gets fully developed and if too much hard running is included can get eroded over time.

The method I am using is from Dr. Phil Maffetone’s "Big Book of Endurance Training and Racing". He has an internet site and this article by him summarizes his method and why it works. http://content.bandzoogle.com/users/cippianhotmail/files/Want_Speed_Slow_Down_2007.pdf

Essentially, you subtract your age from 180, add a plus or minus 5 modifier and run at that target heartrate to target minus 10 for 12 or more weeks or until you stop getting results. Then you add back in some speedwork and race. During the basebuilding period walk breaks are ok, especially going up hills, but slowing down the pace will probably also be necessary. The slowdown is temporary and within a few months the pace will be back up, except at a lower intensity.

This next article by a top level athlete speaks of the results he got from training with the Maffetone method. http://www.markallenonline.com/maoArticles.aspx?AID=2

This method is by an entirely different coach but ends up being very similar to Maffetone. The article at the link is from a very long post by that coach on the Let’s Run Forum a few years ago. The explanations in here are great. http://www.angio.net/personal/run/hadd.pdf 

This was written by Arthur Lydiard in the days before heart rate monitors.  It also stresses the importance of lots of easy miles for base building.  Athletic Training by Arthur Lydiard, available free at http://www.lydiardfoundation.org/pdfs/al_training_eng.pdf 

This link is to the runningahead Low HR Training subforum. It contains a lot of good information and ongoing discussion. It would also be a good place to ask questions of people who have been doing this a lot longer than I have. http://www.runningahead.com/groups/LOWHRTR/forum

This Low HR Training FAQ at that site also contains a lot of good information. http://www.runningahead.com/groups/LOWHRTR/forum/60275b29d3324bd384739e880f6a7495

I started doing this in Nov and have been getting good results. I have posted these results in my MFP blog. For honesty in advertising I have also been running a lot for two years and had just run a marathon before starting this training.

lisawmi

Just a thought- if you can talk and breathe just fine, is it possible your HRM is not accurate? I would see if I could borrow one from someone else and see if you get the same readings. I have found discrepancies in mine and it is a pretty expensive one.

SandraNancy

Just a thought- if you can talk and breathe just fine, is it possible your HRM is not accurate? I would see if I could borrow one from someone else and see if you get the same readings. I have found discrepancies in mine and it is a pretty expensive one.

That's a great thought, but this is my second heart rate monitor with the same results. Also, if I use the pulse sensors on the gym equipment (treadmill) it shows the same.

Thanks for the suggestion, though!

natalie412

Generally a high heartrate at moderate running speeds indicates that your aerobic fitness needs improvement. The reason is that you are running all your runs at too high an intensity and are burning primarily glycogen. Your systems for burning fat are underdeveloped.

I am 53 and have been focusing on the aerobic system for a couple of months and now can run 8:30/mi at a HR of 130. My max is right around 172. So it is possible to run at a low heartrate but you have to develop the underlying systems to get there; primarily capillarization and mitochondrial development in the leg muscles. The capillaries allow more blood with more oxygen to reach the muscles and the mitocondria use the oxygen to burn fat to create energy.

How did you work on improving your aerobic fitness/developing the underlying system?

You have to run a lot at low target heartrates. Over time the body adapts to being able to create the energy needed to run faster at those heartrates; the heart pumps more blood with each stroke, more capillaries develop to saturate the muscle fibers with oxygen, and the muscle fibers develop more and larger mitocondria to covert fat and glycogen to energy for muscle contraction. Burning more fat for energy is desirable because it creates much more energy per unit than glycogen and creates no lactate in the muscles but unlike glycogen it needs oxygen to convert. The ability to burn increasing amounts of fat lead to being able to run much longer without running out of gas and much faster before the muscles shut down from the waste products created by burning glycogen. Below is a short explanation of the training process I have posted elsewhere.

Basically what everyone should do is 12+ week of basebuilding every year at easy pace. The problem is that most people, me included, tend to run easy pace too hard for optimum development of the aerobic system. The result is that it never really gets fully developed and if too much hard running is included can get eroded over time.

The method I am using is from Dr. Phil Maffetone’s "Big Book of Endurance Training and Racing". He has an internet site and this article by him summarizes his method and why it works. http://content.bandzoogle.com/users/cippianhotmail/files/Want_Speed_Slow_Down_2007.pdf

Essentially, you subtract your age from 180, add a plus or minus 5 modifier and run at that target heartrate to target minus 10 for 12 or more weeks or until you stop getting results. Then you add back in some speedwork and race. During the basebuilding period walk breaks are ok, especially going up hills, but slowing down the pace will probably also be necessary. The slowdown is temporary and within a few months the pace will be back up, except at a lower intensity.

This next article by a top level athlete speaks of the results he got from training with the Maffetone method. http://www.markallenonline.com/maoArticles.aspx?AID=2

This method is by an entirely different coach but ends up being very similar to Maffetone. The article at the link is from a very long post by that coach on the Let’s Run Forum a few years ago. The explanations in here are great. http://www.angio.net/personal/run/hadd.pdf 

This was written by Arthur Lydiard in the days before heart rate monitors.  It also stresses the importance of lots of easy miles for base building.  Athletic Training by Arthur Lydiard, available free at http://www.lydiardfoundation.org/pdfs/al_training_eng.pdf 

This link is to the runningahead Low HR Training subforum. It contains a lot of good information and ongoing discussion. It would also be a good place to ask questions of people who have been doing this a lot longer than I have. http://www.runningahead.com/groups/LOWHRTR/forum

This Low HR Training FAQ at that site also contains a lot of good information. http://www.runningahead.com/groups/LOWHRTR/forum/60275b29d3324bd384739e880f6a7495

I started doing this in Nov and have been getting good results. I have posted these results in my MFP blog. For honesty in advertising I have also been running a lot for two years and had just run a marathon before starting this training.

Good info! I think I might have to slow down a bit. I am on a training plan that calls for one tempo run or speed workout per week, and then rest of the runs are easy effort runs - but my avg heart rate is usually about 10 beats higher (around 148 avg) than it should be according to Maffetone. Reading through all of this is making me consider dropping my weekly speed workout. I have a half in April (my second), and right now am running 22-25 miles per week (3, 6, 2, 11 this week). I have been running for one year now (starting with C25K).

SandraNancy

Generally a high heartrate at moderate running speeds indicates that your aerobic fitness needs improvement. The reason is that you are running all your runs at too high an intensity and are burning primarily glycogen. Your systems for burning fat are underdeveloped.

I am 53 and have been focusing on the aerobic system for a couple of months and now can run 8:30/mi at a HR of 130. My max is right around 172. So it is possible to run at a low heartrate but you have to develop the underlying systems to get there; primarily capillarization and mitochondrial development in the leg muscles. The capillaries allow more blood with more oxygen to reach the muscles and the mitocondria use the oxygen to burn fat to create energy.

How did you work on improving your aerobic fitness/developing the underlying system?

You have to run a lot at low target heartrates. Over time the body adapts to being able to create the energy needed to run faster at those heartrates; the heart pumps more blood with each stroke, more capillaries develop to saturate the muscle fibers with oxygen, and the muscle fibers develop more and larger mitocondria to covert fat and glycogen to energy for muscle contraction. Burning more fat for energy is desirable because it creates much more energy per unit than glycogen and creates no lactate in the muscles but unlike glycogen it needs oxygen to convert. The ability to burn increasing amounts of fat lead to being able to run much longer without running out of gas and much faster before the muscles shut down from the waste products created by burning glycogen. Below is a short explanation of the training process I have posted elsewhere.

Basically what everyone should do is 12+ week of basebuilding every year at easy pace. The problem is that most people, me included, tend to run easy pace too hard for optimum development of the aerobic system. The result is that it never really gets fully developed and if too much hard running is included can get eroded over time.

The method I am using is from Dr. Phil Maffetone’s "Big Book of Endurance Training and Racing". He has an internet site and this article by him summarizes his method and why it works. http://content.bandzoogle.com/users/cippianhotmail/files/Want_Speed_Slow_Down_2007.pdf

Essentially, you subtract your age from 180, add a plus or minus 5 modifier and run at that target heartrate to target minus 10 for 12 or more weeks or until you stop getting results. Then you add back in some speedwork and race. During the basebuilding period walk breaks are ok, especially going up hills, but slowing down the pace will probably also be necessary. The slowdown is temporary and within a few months the pace will be back up, except at a lower intensity.

This next article by a top level athlete speaks of the results he got from training with the Maffetone method. http://www.markallenonline.com/maoArticles.aspx?AID=2

This method is by an entirely different coach but ends up being very similar to Maffetone. The article at the link is from a very long post by that coach on the Let’s Run Forum a few years ago. The explanations in here are great. http://www.angio.net/personal/run/hadd.pdf 

This was written by Arthur Lydiard in the days before heart rate monitors.  It also stresses the importance of lots of easy miles for base building.  Athletic Training by Arthur Lydiard, available free at http://www.lydiardfoundation.org/pdfs/al_training_eng.pdf 

This link is to the runningahead Low HR Training subforum. It contains a lot of good information and ongoing discussion. It would also be a good place to ask questions of people who have been doing this a lot longer than I have. http://www.runningahead.com/groups/LOWHRTR/forum

This Low HR Training FAQ at that site also contains a lot of good information. http://www.runningahead.com/groups/LOWHRTR/forum/60275b29d3324bd384739e880f6a7495

I started doing this in Nov and have been getting good results. I have posted these results in my MFP blog. For honesty in advertising I have also been running a lot for two years and had just run a marathon before starting this training.

This was really interesting to read, and I checked out the sites you posted as well. I think I'm going to have a hard time running below 149 bpm, which is what I calculated I should be below. Perhaps it'll be more of a speedy walk. I would love to have a lower heart rate while running, so I'll give it a try. Seems like something for me to save for when the snow melts and I can get outside more!

Thanks again fro the info, very informative!

denisestewart57

Hi

I'm no expert and I certainly don't' mean to worry you in any way, just to put it out there really, you may even have considered it but if not, maybe it's worth looking into.

I wonder if your heart rate high because of thyroid issues? I have Hashimoto's and if I'm under-treated my resting hr is ridiculously low, around 40bpm sometimes. However, if I'm over-treated, it goes much higher. This makes it almost impossible to find my healthy zone when running, but I am currently getting results around the same as you, between 160 - 170 just taking it easy. I wouldn't want to slow it down because like you I wouldn't feel like I was getting anything out of it.

Do let me know what you think I would be interested to know the outcome.

Denise

phjorg1

Generally a high heartrate at moderate running speeds indicates that your aerobic fitness needs improvement. The reason is that you are running all your runs at too high an intensity and are burning primarily glycogen. Your systems for burning fat are underdeveloped.

I am 53 and have been focusing on the aerobic system for a couple of months and now can run 8:30/mi at a HR of 130. My max is right around 172. So it is possible to run at a low heartrate but you have to develop the underlying systems to get there; primarily capillarization and mitochondrial development in the leg muscles. The capillaries allow more blood with more oxygen to reach the muscles and the mitocondria use the oxygen to burn fat to create energy.

How did you work on improving your aerobic fitness/developing the underlying system?

You have to run a lot at low target heartrates. Over time the body adapts to being able to create the energy needed to run faster at those heartrates; the heart pumps more blood with each stroke, more capillaries develop to saturate the muscle fibers with oxygen, and the muscle fibers develop more and larger mitocondria to covert fat and glycogen to energy for muscle contraction. Burning more fat for energy is desirable because it creates much more energy per unit than glycogen and creates no lactate in the muscles but unlike glycogen it needs oxygen to convert. The ability to burn increasing amounts of fat lead to being able to run much longer without running out of gas and much faster before the muscles shut down from the waste products created by burning glycogen. Below is a short explanation of the training process I have posted elsewhere.

Basically what everyone should do is 12+ week of basebuilding every year at easy pace. The problem is that most people, me included, tend to run easy pace too hard for optimum development of the aerobic system. The result is that it never really gets fully developed and if too much hard running is included can get eroded over time.

The method I am using is from Dr. Phil Maffetone’s "Big Book of Endurance Training and Racing". He has an internet site and this article by him summarizes his method and why it works. http://content.bandzoogle.com/users/cippianhotmail/files/Want_Speed_Slow_Down_2007.pdf

Essentially, you subtract your age from 180, add a plus or minus 5 modifier and run at that target heartrate to target minus 10 for 12 or more weeks or until you stop getting results. Then you add back in some speedwork and race. During the basebuilding period walk breaks are ok, especially going up hills, but slowing down the pace will probably also be necessary. The slowdown is temporary and within a few months the pace will be back up, except at a lower intensity.

This next article by a top level athlete speaks of the results he got from training with the Maffetone method. http://www.markallenonline.com/maoArticles.aspx?AID=2

This method is by an entirely different coach but ends up being very similar to Maffetone. The article at the link is from a very long post by that coach on the Let’s Run Forum a few years ago. The explanations in here are great. http://www.angio.net/personal/run/hadd.pdf 

This was written by Arthur Lydiard in the days before heart rate monitors.  It also stresses the importance of lots of easy miles for base building.  Athletic Training by Arthur Lydiard, available free at http://www.lydiardfoundation.org/pdfs/al_training_eng.pdf 

This link is to the runningahead Low HR Training subforum. It contains a lot of good information and ongoing discussion. It would also be a good place to ask questions of people who have been doing this a lot longer than I have. http://www.runningahead.com/groups/LOWHRTR/forum

This Low HR Training FAQ at that site also contains a lot of good information. http://www.runningahead.com/groups/LOWHRTR/forum/60275b29d3324bd384739e880f6a7495

I started doing this in Nov and have been getting good results. I have posted these results in my MFP blog. For honesty in advertising I have also been running a lot for two years and had just run a marathon before starting this training.

you're correct in that training will lead to improving oxygen deliver and lower HR's during exercise. But as far as I know, your HRMAX is your HRMAX. Training will not reduce it. So I don't know why you're trying to offer advice on improving cardio capacity to someone who is worried about having a high HRMAX.

HealthyVitamins

I wouldn't worry about it, I'm a keen runner and I find my peak is 180 - I try to keep it between 170 and 180 to feel like i'm pushing myself and having a good run. No I cannot have a conversation with someone at this heart rate - but why would I want to do that while i'm trying to run?

michellekicks

Tagging

Myhaloslipped

The elliptical machine at the gym said mine was 188 the other day. That scared me, so I slowed it down. Of course, this cardio was immediately following half an hour of intense lifting.

_Waffle_

At your age I don't think the heart rate is excessive. If you're talking while running then you're fine. Keep adding on the miles and stay dedicated and you'll eventually pull this number down to where 180 is solid work. Eventually you'll get to the point where your breathing is under control but your leg muscles are getting tired more than anything. It's taken me close to a year to reach that point. Doing longer runs has made a huge difference too I believe.

denisestewart57

Yeah when I hit 180 I wouldn't be able to hold a conversation, but like you, I run on my own, so it doesn't really matter.....LOL

Any of you run with arthritis? I have arthritis of the hip and if I overdo it, it starts swelling, so I have to restrict my distance and how hard I work. It sucks really.

backtoabike

Just a thought- if you can talk and breathe just fine, is it possible your HRM is not accurate? I would see if I could borrow one from someone else and see if you get the same readings. I have found discrepancies in mine and it is a pretty expensive one.

I was reading through looking for this,

I have had HRM's that would go high and remain there, especially around power lines. I strongly suspect that you have the same problem!