Calorie Deficits + Building Muscle

jhstroebel

I've been on MFP for 6+ months or so and lost 70 lbs (255+ to ~185 lbs now) through portion control, better diet, and lots of cardio. Not only have a found that in changing my diet its difficult to get up to the goal calories i'm supposed to eat, mentally I don't let myself get there because I've had so much success up to this point doing what I'm doing (losing on average 10 lbs a month). As i'm getting closer and closer to where I want to be this isn't as much of a concern and my goals are now to decrease my body fat percentage and gain more muscle. Through my Fitbit Aria scale I realize i've lost 10+ lbs of lean weight on this journey (down from 170 to +/-159) and would like to build that back up, or at least stop losing muscle. I've started doing weights 3 times a week (alternating upper and lower body) as of the beginning of the year and it feels great.

The real question that I need some help with is that I've been reading about the struggle of putting on muscle while eating on a calorie deficit for weight loss. Obviously my body needs protein to help build (and re-build) muscle after a workout but can I get my body the nutrients it needs while still eating on a calorie deficit for weight loss???

I'm not trying to be a body builder or anything but am pretty week in my arms, shoulders, pecs, etc. and would like to put on some muscle. I also have about 30 lbs of fat mass on me that i'd like to continue to work on (most noticibly the frustrating fat left in my gut/ab region). Anyone with expertise in how to achieve these goals?

My diary is open (although my exercise data comes from Fitbit so its not very helpful with what kind of exercise I'm doing daily) and I would be happy to share any other details that might be helpful!

jhstroebel

Anyone?

chimp517

You will need to eat a caloric surplus to build muscle.

azwen

You won't add more muscle while you're eating at a deficit, but plenty of protein and consistent strength will help you maintain muscle.

AnabolicKyle

try to eat about .6g of protein (minimum) per lb of body weight. start a lifting routine, this should slow down muscle loss. It is possible to get "newbie" gainz while lifting (add muscle). and once you finish your weight loss journey start a 500cal surplus bulk.

edit

macros looked pretty decent, make sure you keep your fat at a minimum of 60grams.

I didnt see any strength training routine??? do you have one?

otrlynn

I'm sort of going out on a limb here, because I know that the body builders on here will disagree. I'm only going to share my own experience. I have lost more than 18 ponds eating at a deficit, although not a huge one since I am set up for losing .5 lbs per week. I have been working out 3 times a week using the elliptical with some resistance, doing walking lunges, using the pull-up/dip machine, and lifting free weights. Whatever label you choose to use, I can see that I have significantly more muscle definition in my arms, and it is not just that I have lost a covering of fat--because I can lift more than when I started. I can do more walking lunges (which I do to the point of extreme muscle fatigue/failure). I am closer (though not all that close) to lifting my body weight on the pull-up/dip machine. So, I have to conclude that I am gaining some muscle.

jhstroebel

@AnabolicKyle

I've started on weight machines in my gym (Pec Machine, Lat Pulldown, Shoulder Press, Ab machine, Seated Row, Chest Press, Leg press, Leg Extension, and Leg Curl), slowly transitioning over to free weights, but all I have at my gym is dumbbells. I'm currently recording my weight lifting via an iphone app that doesn't sync anywhere. Is there an app or tracking method that you might recommend?

51powerski

If you still want to lose weight and "tone" then by all means lift and eat at a deficit still. If you have just started lifting then you will get so called "noob gains" which will make you look better anyway.

Longer term you can build on a deficit or eating around maintenance but it will be very slow. Once you have lost weight if you want to build muscle then you can think about going on a surplus to build.

Looking in your diary your brotein target is low. The typically touted figure is 1g brotein per pound bodyweight per day (whilst on a surplus). If you are lifting on a deficit it is thought beneficial to increase this further, to around somewhere in the region of 1.1 to 1.3g brotein per pound bodyweight per day.

Sarauk2sf

I would recommend a full body workout 3 x a week. One that incorporates barbell compound lifts and progressive loading would be best imo, like Stronglifts 5 x 5.

As others have said, you can make some newbie gains on a deficit, but they are not a lot and are finite. Keep your deficit reasonable and protein to at least 1g pe lb of LBM.

AnabolicKyle

I've started on weight machines in my gym (Pec Machine, Lat Pulldown, Shoulder Press, Ab machine, Seated Row, Chest Press, Leg press, Leg Extension, and Leg Curl), slowly transitioning over to free weights, but all I have at my gym is dumbbells. I'm currently recording my weight lifting via an iphone app that doesn't sync anywhere. Is there an app or tracking method that you might recommend?

If you still want to lose weight and "tone" then by all means lift and eat at a deficit still. If you have just started lifting then you will get so called "noob gains" which will make you look better anyway.

Longer term you can build on a deficit or eating around maintenance but it will be very slow. Once you have lost weight if you want to build muscle then you can think about going on a surplus to build.

Looking in your diary your brotein target is low. The typically touted figure is 1g brotein per pound bodyweight per day (whilst on a surplus). If you are lifting on a deficit it is thought beneficial to increase this further, to around somewhere in the region of 1.1 to 1.3g brotein per pound bodyweight per day.

i like fitocracy for tracking my workouts but it doesnt really give any programs to do. i downloaded jefit yesterday and it has a pretty solid beginner program.

suggestions
when you go to the gym have an attack plan(know what youre going to do, dont just show up and **** around).

examples routines
full body routine 3 times a week 5sets of 5reps
split Monday chest tri tuesday back bis wed legs abs 10sets 10 reps
always do at least 2 sets and between 1-20reps
common workout range is probably 5 sets between 5-12reps

some exercises i would recommend with what you have
dumbbell (rows, chest press, shoulder press)

ACSM recommends for strength and endurance athletes (0.5 – 0.8 grams of protein per pound)for the best performance and health.

as 51powerski said in a cut a lot of highly intelligent people suggest higher protein then during a bulk.

Lyadeia

I'm sort of going out on a limb here, because I know that the body builders on here will disagree. I'm only going to share my own experience. I have lost more than 18 ponds eating at a deficit, although not a huge one since I am set up for losing .5 lbs per week. I have been working out 3 times a week using the elliptical with some resistance, doing walking lunges, using the pull-up/dip machine, and lifting free weights. Whatever label you choose to use, I can see that I have significantly more muscle definition in my arms, and it is not just that I have lost a covering of fat--because I can lift more than when I started. I can do more walking lunges (which I do to the point of extreme muscle fatigue/failure). I am closer (though not all that close) to lifting my body weight on the pull-up/dip machine. So, I have to conclude that I am gaining some muscle.

Keep in mind that strength and muscle gain are NOT the same thing. You can easily gain strength in the muscle you already have without gaining new muscle fibers. This happens all the time. I see it in myself. I am currently in a calorie deficit, but my lifts keep getting stronger.

You did gain "some" muscle. As was mentioned before, it's just newbie gains. You won't continue to gain muscle this way. It's simply physiologically impossible, whether you are a bodybuilder or not.

zealousmissjj_wechange

I would really appreciate some more info on the matter too!

I've been eating around 1200 calories for the past half year now, and have lost about 8kg. I've never been very athletic :grumble: and you can tell from my body that I don't have a whole lot of muscle defenition (other then my legs).

I'd like to lose about 2 more kg but would like to build some muscles too.

If I make sure I eat about 130-140 grams of protein a day, could I still build muscles on say 1400-1500 calories? I'm scared to eat a whole lot more and never want to go back to my old weight..

I could use some help too! :flowerforyou:

AntWrig

I would really appreciate some more info on the matter too!

I've been eating around 1200 calories for the past half year now, and have lost about 8kg. I've never been very athletic :grumble: and you can tell from my body that I don't have a whole lot of muscle defenition (other then my legs).

I'd like to lose about 2 more kg but would like to build some muscles too.

If I make sure I eat about 130-140 grams of protein a day, could I still build muscles on say 1400-1500 calories? I'm scared to eat a whole lot more and never want to go back to my old weight..

I could use some help too! :flowerforyou:

1. You need more calories than 1400-1500 to build muscle.
2. Stop being scared.
3. You have been eating around 1200 calories for at least 6 months. Maybe it's time to take diet break for a week or so.

jets51

You did gain "some" muscle. As was mentioned before, it's just newbie gains. You won't continue to gain muscle this way. It's simply physiologically impossible, whether you are a bodybuilder or not.

The joys of BroScience.

You can gain muscle mass on a deficit it just happens at a slow rate.

When you train your body then starts repairing the muscles this will stimulate muscle growth, with deficit you will quickly run out of fuel for this process but you will keep a nominal amount of the result.

I know may athletes that ave successfully gained muscle mass and lost body fat it just takes a lot longer and more work.

The best method would be to switch your diet and eat 1000 over maintainance with loads of protein whilst doing a decent lifting program for a 12 week cycle and then going back to dieting again

It depends on what you find more important

zealousmissjj_wechange

1. You need more calories than 1400-1500 to build muscle.
2. Stop being scared.
3. You have been eating around 1200 calories for at least 6 months. Maybe it's time to take diet break for a week or so.

Thank you! You can understand I need a little time to adjust what I have believed to be true for a long time. But I'm open and willing to learn! Oh, and yes, a little break would be nice .

taekwonkenpo

Your post suggests that you would be fine with just maintaining the muscle mass you currently have. If that is the case then eat at a modest deficit and continue your strength training to help you minimize any muscle loss.

However if you are truly looking for larger muscles then you will need to be eating at a caloric surplus. Most people would call this a cycle. If you are not familiar with that term then it means to eat at a surplus while you bulk up and then eat a deficit to cut down the fat on a rotating basis. (keep in mind though that eating at a surplus does not mean to stop logging and eat like a knuckle head, common sense is required)

Good luck.

lorenzoinlr

Some are able to gain muscle losing with enough protein, it just happens a lot more slowly than with a surplus.

AntWrig

Some are able to gain muscle losing with enough protein, it just happens a lot more slowly than with a surplus.

Explain this magical process.

lorenzoinlr

Yeah, I know it's blasphemy around here. I've taken measurements, it isn't just definition.

Broscience + religion = The prevailing view

EvgeniZyntx

I'm sort of going out on a limb here, because I know that the body builders on here will disagree. I'm only going to share my own experience. I have lost more than 18 ponds eating at a deficit, although not a huge one since I am set up for losing .5 lbs per week. I have been working out 3 times a week using the elliptical with some resistance, doing walking lunges, using the pull-up/dip machine, and lifting free weights. Whatever label you choose to use, I can see that I have significantly more muscle definition in my arms, and it is not just that I have lost a covering of fat--because I can lift more than when I started. I can do more walking lunges (which I do to the point of extreme muscle fatigue/failure). I am closer (though not all that close) to lifting my body weight on the pull-up/dip machine. So, I have to conclude that I am gaining some muscle.

Keep in mind that strength and muscle gain are NOT the same thing. You can easily gain strength in the muscle you already have without gaining new muscle fibers. This happens all the time. I see it in myself. I am currently in a calorie deficit, but my lifts keep getting stronger.

You did gain "some" muscle. As was mentioned before, it's just newbie gains. You won't continue to gain muscle this way. It's simply physiologically impossible, whether you are a bodybuilder or not.

Newbie gains are actually possible for at least a year and or when bf% is relatively high. My newbie gains have been going for 4-6 months and while they will eventually stall I'm pretty sure that physiologically talking my experience and that of certain individuals in my FL demonstrates that some muscle gain under small deficits is totally reasonable. As to "physiological impossible" may I also make an appeal to authority in the name of Alain Aragon and suggest that his culking protocol is just that?

Bonehead1104

You have done an Awesome job!Keep it up...Change is hard for all of us, but we can make it!

jhstroebel

Thanks everyone! Sounds like I need to up my protein while I continue to lose, and start thinking about cycling calories for weight training days (surplus) and cut days (deficit) while implementing a more serious weight training program (at least moving to dumbbells and freeweights instead of weight machines, although going to a StrongLifts program would require joining a real gym with more equipment options).

Determined to meet my goals even as they switch from losing the weight to gaining strength and muscle.

AnabolicKyle

Thanks everyone! Sounds like I need to up my protein while I continue to lose, and start thinking about cycling calories for weight training days (surplus) and cut days (deficit) while implementing a more serious weight training program (at least moving to dumbbells and freeweights instead of weight machines, although going to a StrongLifts program would require joining a real gym with more equipment options).

Determined to meet my goals even as they switch from losing the weight to gaining strength and muscle.

more important then protein intake, cycling, blah blah blah, is consistency so make time to hit the gym. Once you start to feel skinny start a bulk. its a marathon not a sprint, good luck.

i don't use either but a lot of people have success on
lean gains intermittent fasting
If it fits your macros

three most common suggestions for workout routine
starting strength
strong lifts
the new encyclopedia of modern bodybuilding by arnold schwarzenegger

dont get sucked into the hype, its not magical or the best routine.

Sarauk2sf

You did gain "some" muscle. As was mentioned before, it's just newbie gains. You won't continue to gain muscle this way. It's simply physiologically impossible, whether you are a bodybuilder or not.

The joys of BroScience.

You can gain muscle mass on a deficit it just happens at a slow rate.

When you train your body then starts repairing the muscles this will stimulate muscle growth, with deficit you will quickly run out of fuel for this process but you will keep a nominal amount of the result.

I know may athletes that ave successfully gained muscle mass and lost body fat it just takes a lot longer and more work.

The best method would be to switch your diet and eat 1000 over maintainance with loads of protein whilst doing a decent lifting program for a 12 week cycle and then going back to dieting again

It depends on what you find more important

Broscience???

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html