Should we encourage the belief?
Replies
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Never mind. You did reach a point. What you are saying is that it is your personal opinion that a belief in Santa Claus encouraged by parents harms children. You're certainly entitled to your personal opinion. Perhaps you will want to study the issue further, however, before claiming it as your professional opinion.
Best of luck.
When did I claim it as my "professional opinion"? That's not even my profession (currently studying forensic investigation and my previous profession is clinical research). I did study and discuss it extensively as part of my previous degree.
You, ma'am, made your point and then stated that "I have a degree in psychology with a specialization in child and adolescent development." You can attempt to parse words all you want but you made a clear implication that your opinion was professional and backed by your degree. You then subsequently dodged probing questions on that exact point, and have now backtracked.
Again, you are entitled to your personal opinion.
I have no qualms about being an education snob, and I frankly do value the opinions of people who have studied and researched subjects more than those who do something just because "that's the way my parents did it".
But if I was stating it was a professional opinion, I would have said, "I am a child psychologist" which I am not. You're confusing an EDUCATED opinion with a professional one.0 -
SANTA!!!! I know him!!!
We're a Santa house. Santa = the man. I love that fat, judgmental jerk. I would not want to live a Santaless life.0 -
The thing about children is that they usually will tell the truth even if it's not in good taste or appropriate. :laugh:Besides, I would hardly call any child ugly. Children are a beautiful wonderful thing, regardless of what they look like.
So the question I asked was to see how you would respond to the child. Telling a child that they are a beautiful, wonderful thing, didn't address the question that they may have asked about their physical looks.
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I would tell them that to me they are beautiful.0 -
When I was a kid, I found out Santa wasn't real by discovering all the boxes to my toys out by the trash the same day. I was mortified. My kids must suffer the same fate. Ha!
Of course I let them believe in Santa it's so magical!0 -
The thing about children is that they usually will tell the truth even if it's not in good taste or appropriate. :laugh:Besides, I would hardly call any child ugly. Children are a beautiful wonderful thing, regardless of what they look like.
So the question I asked was to see how you would respond to the child. Telling a child that they are a beautiful, wonderful thing, didn't address the question that they may have asked about their physical looks.
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Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If I had a child with a deformity, I would find that child just as precious as a Gerber commercial baby. If my child asked what the world would think about his/her beauty, I would tell him/her that it doesn't matter what they think, it's what you think about yourself that is important. I would then ask the child if he/she thought I was ugly. If he/she says no, then I would tell him/her that I have been called such by the world, hence their opinion is irrelevant. If he/she says yes, then it obviously doesn't matter if someone is ugly or not in order to be happy.
FWIW, I would tell my child the same thing even if he/she actually had Gerber baby good looks.0 -
I don't see why not. It's great to remember the magic of Santa when we're older. Every Christmas Eve, Santa would call my house just to make sure I'd been a good girl all year. I now know, of course, that it was my dad calling from work when he worked nights. But those are great memories.
I think that it's fine to let kids think there's really a Santa Claus. When the time comes when they begin to realize that Mom and Santa Claus have the same handwriting, it's also okay to tell them the truth.0 -
Never mind. You did reach a point. What you are saying is that it is your personal opinion that a belief in Santa Claus encouraged by parents harms children. You're certainly entitled to your personal opinion. Perhaps you will want to study the issue further, however, before claiming it as your professional opinion.
Best of luck.
When did I claim it as my "professional opinion"? That's not even my profession (currently studying forensic investigation and my previous profession is clinical research). I did study and discuss it extensively as part of my previous degree.
You, ma'am, made your point and then stated that "I have a degree in psychology with a specialization in child and adolescent development." You can attempt to parse words all you want but you made a clear implication that your opinion was professional and backed by your degree. You then subsequently dodged probing questions on that exact point, and have now backtracked.
Again, you are entitled to your personal opinion.
I have no qualms about being an education snob, and I frankly do value the opinions of people who have studied and researched subjects more than those who do something just because "that's the way my parents did it".
But if I was stating it was a professional opinion, I would have said, "I am a child psychologist" which I am not. You're confusing an EDUCATED opinion with a professional one.
I have two graduate degrees myself, and years of experience in my field, and the one thing I can honestly say is that education without experience is less than useless. You have also formed your opinion without having any research to back it up. No scientist I know would make any point and put forth their credentials as a way of backing it up, without also pointing out the exceptions which took me repeated questioning to bring out.0 -
i let my kids believe in it and i think im a pretty bad *kitten* parent. Am i perfect oh hell no, but i try my hardest to be the best dad I can. Most of my family including me grew up believing in ol santa as kids and we didnt grow up to be liars, we just accepted it as my kids will0
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I have no qualms about being an education snob, and I frankly do value the opinions of people who have studied and researched subjects more than those who do something just because "that's the way my parents did it".
But if I was stating it was a professional opinion, I would have said, "I am a child psychologist" which I am not. You're confusing an EDUCATED opinion with a professional one.
"No man's knowledge can go beyond his experience." JOHN LOCKE, Essay Concerning Human Understanding
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." ALBERT EINSTEIN, On Science
Something to ponder in the ole ivory tower.0 -
We told them about the real Saint Nicholas, and about how wonderful it is when people choose to be generous and selfless, but my kids know Santa is a fun story, and they get gifts from Mama and Daddy, grandmas and grandpas, great grandparents, aunts and uncles, friends, etc. They are so happy with gifts from people who love them, spend time with them, and miss them when we aren't all together, that each gift becomes a treasured memento. I'm glad we made the choice we did in deciding to avoid the commercialism and not lie to our children. We extend that to answering every question honestly, with an age appropriate answer, with as much information as it takes to satisfy their curiosity. A lie like "you can't have chocolate before dinner because it's all gone" would be a lot easier than the truth "no, we are eating in a few minutes, you may have some tomorrow." And it would avoid the possible tantrums and pleading, but I'm simply not willing to habitually lie to my children.0
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I remember the magic of leaving out the cookies and milk, and getting up on Christmas morning and seeing that Santa had been there. But I also remember feeling really stupid and betrayed when I found out I'd been lied to all those years by the people I trusted most of all. It's a tough call and I respect and understand either decision.0
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Give Truth for Christmas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFxZZnnUuTw
Its by the guys from the show Impractical Jokers.
This conversation just reminded me of it haha.0 -
“All right," said Susan. "I'm not stupid. You're saying humans need... fantasies to make life bearable."
REALLY? AS IF IT WAS SOME KIND OF PINK PILL? NO. HUMANS NEED FANTASY TO BE HUMAN. TO BE THE PLACE WHERE THE FALLING ANGEL MEETS THE RISING APE.
"Tooth fairies? Hogfathers? Little—"
YES. AS PRACTICE. YOU HAVE TO START OUT LEARNING TO BELIEVE THE LITTLE LIES.
"So we can believe the big ones?"
YES. JUSTICE. MERCY. DUTY. THAT SORT OF THING.
"They're not the same at all!"
YOU THINK SO? THEN TAKE THE UNIVERSE AND GRIND IT DOWN TO THE FINEST POWDER AND SIEVE IT THROUGH THE FINEST SIEVE AND THEN SHOW ME ONE ATOM OF JUSTICE, ONE MOLECULE OF MERCY. AND YET—Death waved a hand. AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED.
"Yes, but people have got to believe that, or what's the point—"
MY POINT EXACTLY.”
― Terry Pratchett, Hogfather0 -
Better not tell kids there isn't a Santa Claus. You don't want to end up like Jabez Dawes.0
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believe a lie or believe a fib? same thing pretty much. my children 2 4 and 6 yrs old know theres not an old fat man giving the whole world presents in one night. i dont disagree or agree its just what life brings.as long as my children feel love from our family and jesus then santa kinda really dont matter because he sure isnt there on christmas but jesus spirit and our families are. but santa is fun to say and hear song with santa in it but other then encouraging i wouldnt lie to my children i am a mother not a liar but they are not dumb or near stupid to know common sense of what people like santa cant do which is fly in the sky. but just an opin.0
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Suggesting that encouraging aTEMPORARY belief in Santa Claus will cause chidren to forego critical thinking FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES is asinine. I don't have any graduate degrees but I'm pretty sure I don't need one to say conclusively that the majority of people who grew up believing in Santa Claus did not develop trust issues because of it.
Way to jump the shark!0 -
When my kids started asking me of Santa was real, I told them that I firmly believed in the spirit of Santa Clause. When they got older, I told them his history.0
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I have two graduate degrees myself, and years of experience in my field, and the one thing I can honestly say is that education without experience is less than useless. You have also formed your opinion without having any research to back it up. No scientist I know would make any point and put forth their credentials as a way of backing it up, without also pointing out the exceptions which took me repeated questioning to bring out.
Yeah, I knew when I posted that there would be at least one person who would jump all over me for it, but I posted it anyway because I believe that my educational experience in the area is relevant regardless of whether you do or not. I would never claim something as a professional opinion unless it was in the field of clinical research in which I do have many years of professional experience. But I also believe there are way too many parents out there (who yes, obviously have more parenting experience than me) who are doing things "just because" and I think every parent should have to have some basic courses in child psychology. If you're interested in how children's brains and psyche develop, I highly recommend it. I honestly find it much more valuable experience for my future as a parent than I ever did for my future in my career (hence me not continuing with it and changing my focus). But I never form an opinion without "research to back it up" and as I've said, it's definitely something that we looked into a lot during my education, but that was 10 years ago so I'm sorry I don't have any textbooks or articles to show you about lying to children, and I'm not sure this is the place for it.
My parents lied to me about Santa Claus, and I am not a pathological liar by any means, nor do I believe that just because you lie to your kids they will turn out to be such. But I think it is unnecessary, and encourages the materialistic part of society, and I would much rather talk to them about things that are real and good about Christmas.
This is my educated opinion. Which I'm entitled to. It's also my opinion that an educated opinion has more value than an uneducated one. And that's also my opinion. Which I'm entitled to.
Edit: Again, I'm not suggesting that belief in Santa Claus alone will turn your children into monsters, but it is part of a TREND of things that parents seem to just tell their kids and expect them to believe without requiring answers more than "it's magic". When my kids point out that it would be really hard for Santa to make it to all the houses in the world in one night, I don't plan to say, "it's magic" - I want to encourage that kind of critical thinking and questioning things they're told.0 -
yes! It was so nice having that as a kid. It was magical and made Christmas so exciting.0
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I do not think there is any harm in this but it is not something we do in our family. Christmas is about the birth of Christ for us, not presents and Santa. We have spoken to our kids about who the real Santa Claus was and how and why children believe in him.
Ditto.Very well said.0 -
Defiantly. It sets them up for disappointment later in life. :laugh:0
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I have two graduate degrees myself, and years of experience in my field, and the one thing I can honestly say is that education without experience is less than useless. You have also formed your opinion without having any research to back it up. No scientist I know would make any point and put forth their credentials as a way of backing it up, without also pointing out the exceptions which took me repeated questioning to bring out.
Yeah, I knew when I posted that there would be at least one person who would jump all over me for it, but I posted it anyway because I believe that my educational experience in the area is relevant regardless of whether you do or not. I would never claim something as a professional opinion unless it was in the field of clinical research in which I do have many years of professional experience. But I also believe there are way too many parents out there (who yes, obviously have more parenting experience than me) who are doing things "just because" and I think every parent should have to have some basic courses in child psychology. If you're interested in how children's brains and psyche develop, I highly recommend it. I honestly find it much more valuable experience for my future as a parent than I ever did for my future in my career (hence me not continuing with it and changing my focus). But I never form an opinion without "research to back it up" and as I've said, it's definitely something that we looked into a lot during my education, but that was 10 years ago so I'm sorry I don't have any textbooks or articles to show you about lying to children, and I'm not sure this is the place for it.
My parents lied to me about Santa Claus, and I am not a pathological liar by any means, nor do I believe that just because you lie to your kids they will turn out to be such. But I think it is unnecessary, and encourages the materialistic part of society, and I would much rather talk to them about things that are real and good about Christmas.
This is my educated opinion. Which I'm entitled to. It's also my opinion that an educated opinion has more value than an uneducated one. And that's also my opinion. Which I'm entitled to.
Edit: Again, I'm not suggesting that belief in Santa Claus alone will turn your children into monsters, but it is part of a TREND of things that parents seem to just tell their kids and expect them to believe without requiring answers more than "it's magic". When my kids point out that it would be really hard for Santa to make it to all the houses in the world in one night, I don't plan to say, "it's magic" - I want to encourage that kind of critical thinking and questioning things they're told.
Yes. It is your educated and very inexperienced opinion. And yes, you are entitled to it. In the future, you may want to make it clear without forcing someone to cross examine you. I've actually spoken about this issue in detail with real experts and the majority of opinions that I have heard tell me that no harm is done. You see, I take my job as a father incredibly seriously. You may want to learn to be less judgmental, as inexperienced and judgmental is one heck of a combination. I am sure you will bring much honor to your eventual profession.
Edit: To be very clear, the only objection I have is to your claim that encouraging a belief in Santa Claus is damaging. I think either choice is pretty legitimate on a parent's part, and I can see good arguments either way. I doubt either is damaging.0 -
Jesus is just as real as Santa. ;-)0
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thank you!Jesus is just as real as Santa. ;-)0 -
thank you!Jesus is just as real as Santa. ;-)
Please don't get this thread locked! Why can't Santa just be fun ya'll!? :sad: :sad: :sad:0 -
Jesus is just as real as Santa. ;-)
And the inevitable downward spiral towards lockdown begins in 3 2 1....0 -
Suggesting that encouraging aTEMPORARY belief in Santa Claus will cause chidren to forego critical thinking FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES is asinine. I don't have any graduate degrees but I'm pretty sure I don't need one to say conclusively that the majority of people who grew up believing in Santa Claus did not develop trust issues because of it.
Way to jump the shark!
Socrates would agree with you. One of Plato's critical thinking tools was having Socrates allow someone to believe the truth of something that isn't true and allow them, through a series of questions, discoveries, etc. to determine the real truth. That IS critical thinking at its finest.
That, and Albert Einstein would have said that it's just fun to play pretend with kids. But he had a lot of kids around him and would know something about it. Obviously, not regarding the belief in Santa being as how he wasn't Christian faith.0 -
If you say Jesus backwards it sounds like Sausage.
Kinda explains what going on in the Churches........
Oh never mind.
Just sayn. :huh:
*Prepares for a beating ......0 -
Suggesting that encouraging aTEMPORARY belief in Santa Claus will cause chidren to forego critical thinking FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES is asinine. I don't have any graduate degrees but I'm pretty sure I don't need one to say conclusively that the majority of people who grew up believing in Santa Claus did not develop trust issues because of it.
Way to jump the shark!
I, for one, never said that letting them believe in Santa would ruin their critical thinking skills for life; and I don't think anyone was suggesting that. But when my kids ask me a question, I'd like to think that I can help them figure out the answer themselves, mostly through probing questions which cause them to think, rather than just handing them the information. And I certainly much prefer not to hand them incorrect information.0 -
Suggesting that encouraging aTEMPORARY belief in Santa Claus will cause chidren to forego critical thinking FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES is asinine. I don't have any graduate degrees but I'm pretty sure I don't need one to say conclusively that the majority of people who grew up believing in Santa Claus did not develop trust issues because of it.
Way to jump the shark!
Socrates would agree with you. One of Plato's critical thinking tools was having Socrates allow someone to believe the truth of something that isn't true and allow them, through a series of questions, discoveries, etc. to determine the real truth. That IS critical thinking at its finest.
That, and Albert Einstein would have said that it's just fun to play pretend with kids. But he had a lot of kids around him and would know something about it. Obviously, not regarding the belief in Santa being as how he wasn't Christian faith.
Exactly. And that's how I discovered the truth about Santa. I kept asking my mother how all these improbalities could be true and she said "What do you think?" Eventually I came to the conclusion that Santa was not real. Was I upset for awhile? Yes. Did I get over it? Pretty quickly. And do the wonderful memories of believing in that magic persist while the dissapointment has long since abated? You betcha.0
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