The you're/your and their/there/they're debate

_SABOTEUR_

I was just reading through a post from someone who seemed to be asking a genuine question from a perspective of helping others with their goals and some people shot them down for the incorrect use for your and basically said if you're not intelligent enough to spell I'm not going to dignify your question with an answer.

Being an English and Creative Writing grad, up until the moment I read that post the your/you're and their/there/they're was on my pet peeves list. But this person made it clear to me that this is a form of snobbery that I want no part of. And, worse than that, it is bullying and belittling.

When I was a teaching assistant I had a class with learning difficulties that had these SPaG (spelling, punctuation and grammar) issues and many others. What amazed me about them is that every one of them new sign language because they had previously been in a special needs school with a deaf child in their class. It amazed me because as good as my English may or may not be, it is my only language. These kids already had two without even realising what an achievement that was!

Anyway, my point is that SPaG is not an indicator of intelligence and people need to get down off their high horses and realise they should treat people as human beings even if they are only represented by an avatar.

This rant was instead of reporting the person...but I am still tempted.

Danger2OneSelf

I completely agree unless their (lol) confusing you and you don't understand there point who really cares?
Other words grammar Nazis need not apply. Topic forums were meant to have quick replies with out revision. Just have some fun.

LorinaLynn

I'm a grammar nazi... and dyslexic. Which means that the very second I point out someone else's mistake, I'll make one of my own that's even worse.

So I don't point them out. If I don't understand what someone is saying, I'll skip the post.

PetulantOne

:drinker: :drinker: :drinker: :drinker:

I'm also dyslexic. I couldn't spell if my life depended on it. But I'm far from stupid. If it's so bad that I have no clue what the person is trying to say, I just back out quietly.

Danger2OneSelf

That's too funny I also have dyslexia guys. I find that sometimes it makes playing video games a complete SOB....sucks for the nerd within me

pili90

English is my second language. I am studying English Literature and linguistics. I study languages in depth, not just orthography or grammar. I’ve never had the inclination to humiliate people because of their mistakes, so the motivation behind this attitude is a mystery, and I can’t help but wonder about Grammar Nazis.

It is interesting for me the moral code, or ethics, in which they live and act. If their idea is to improve people’s writing skills, why do they use humiliation and taunting responses? I do not defend in any way errors, they are annoying in any language, yet the attitude towards them is appalling. That leads me to the only possible conclusion, they do not perform a public service, their motivation is to bully, and that makes me wonder how skilled they are when it comes to languages. Do they speak more than one, and if they do, do they make mistakes? I’ve always wanted to ask them about language, maybe they have interesting insights. It is a dream of mine asking them if illiterate people are stupid or if languages that have no written form are less complex.
I do believe that SPaG issues do not reflect intelligence, but why people believe it does confuses me.

Danger2OneSelf

pili90 you are quite possibly the coolest and most considerate human being I've ever meet, seriously awesome! Will you marry me?

pili90

Aww that's sweet...I don't know if considerate is the word, just really curious...

I also have dyslexia, so I know the inner nerd pain...

_SABOTEUR_

Great responses guys. Thanks. You are restoring my faith!

The question of illiteracy is one I was going to mention as well. Particularly in reference to modern developed society. Illiterate/word blind people cope with amazing things without even realising it. They manage to drive, pass eye tests, join a bank, get jobs, vote and do all manor of things that I would find impossible if I couldn't read. What is that other than intelligence writ large?

nenacakesxo

when in doubt, just write it out! it is what i do. <-

AnabolicKyle

read (reed) & read (red)

dianalee9

I will admit that I am a grammar Nazi.:blushing: BUT I'm a closet grammar Nazi lol. I notice the mistakes, but I don't point them out. I make mistakes too. Growing up with a brother who struggled with reading, punctuation, and grammar made me realize it's not easy for everyone, and no one should be belittled or humiliated because of their mistakes.

My favorite spelling/punctuation/grammar joke: Capitalization is important. It's the difference between helping you Uncle Jack off a horse, and helping your uncle jack off a horse. :laugh:

dejastar

My son has learning issues and I have had to learn to accept that he will never be a great speller and learning things will always be a struggle for him. I have learned to be patient and try to show him different ways to learn things.

I feel for you all. It is a struggle and really at the end of the day are people dying over the spelling of certain words? Does one sit there and stew upon some randoms strangers misspelling? I don't stress over and neither should other people.

trudijoy

I'm a linguist and language teacher, so I see and note every mistake, but don't judge people on them unless they are intentional... I HATE wen ppl ryt lyk dis because it actually is phonetically incorrect and means very little.


It amuses me that people will pull me up sometimes on spelling and grammar, or lack of capitals with 'you're a teacher, shouldn't you know better?' because - just like everyone else - when i'm typing in this kinda format I simply can't be bothered checking before i reply :laugh:

adavis59

I too am a closet grammar nazi. :blushing: But being a Special Education teacher I dare not point out other people's grammatical mistakes. There is no one alive with perfect grammar usage, we all have our faults. There are times when even I make a grammatical mistake in front of my students and I correct myself and apologize them, showing them that you don't have to be "special" to make mistakes. Why bully others about them?? Express yourself in the best way you can.

sissiluv

I see absolutely nothing wrong with educating someone but it should definitely be done constructively. Nobody is perfect, why try to front like you are? I'll admit, I can get snobby and sarcastic about certain issues (IE slut shaming, over-generalizing) especially when I'm in a poor mood but I do try to be constructive if I'm pointing something out at all.
Sometimes I'll fail though, not gonna lie.

But the you/you're etc thing is something I tend to overlook. Is there really a point in my pointing it out to them? It's not harming anyone so I tend to think not and even if it bugs me I'll ignore it.
Unless it's like, a story or a news article something in which case I'm hopping all over that because really, they should be taking pains to be grammatically correct.

pili90

Great responses guys. Thanks. You are restoring my faith!

The question of illiteracy is one I was going to mention as well. Particularly in reference to modern developed society. Illiterate/word blind people cope with amazing things without even realising it. They manage to drive, pass eye tests, join a bank, get jobs, vote and do all manor of things that I would find impossible if I couldn't read. What is that other than intelligence writ large?

First of all, language entails communication, so everyone deserves respect because they have the ability to communicate, and the right. Being communication the main aim of language, and the main reason why we have succeeded as a species, it can’t be understood in such a limited way(right or wrong). Language is not written, but spoken. Now, in the world, there are many, many languages that are currently being spoken, out of all the languages in the world the vast majority is not written, and for the longest part of history it wasn’t written. Children are able to fully comprehend language, in all its complexity, before learning how to read and write. People are able to cope with the “missing pieces” because language is more than just written words.

For me intelligence is a somewhat mischievous word, it is far too limited. Ok, I know that sounds odd, yet if you think about languages and what they are, you’ll see that it is easier to talk about skills and abilities. Blind people have impressive skills and abilities when it comes to phonology and phonetics, people who tend to have more analytical minds are much better at syntax, and so on. This is why intelligence, however useful as a term, cannot fully explain the phenomena of language.
So a long as people have a purpose, and a need, they will be able to master languages, unless of course they have some speech impediment, some type of aphasia. This is why I just cant get the idea of mocking others.

And the final piece of the puzzle, unless you are Chomsky's ideal speaker, I find it really hard to believe that you live in a mistake free zone.

marsellient

Sometimes I notice errors, but I wouldn't think of commenting. It's quite possible that this post will have some either because of my mistake, or damned autocorrect, or the slip of a finger. It's pretty easy to hit reply before proofing.

I taught many learning disabled students and one day a girl showed up with a T-shirt that said "Poor spellers of the world untie". ????A sense of humour is a good thing.

_SABOTEUR_

Sometimes I notice errors, but I wouldn't think of commenting. It's quite possible that this post will have some either because of my mistake, or damned autocorrect, or the slip of a finger. It's pretty easy to hit reply before proofing.

I taught many learning disabled students and one day a girl showed up with a T-shirt that said "Poor spellers of the world untie". ????A sense of humour is a good thing.

Have you seen the film Mary and Max? The main character has Asperger's and he wears a t-shirt that says 'Freedom for Aspies' or something similar. It is a fantastic film, everyone should watch it.

jonnyman41

This is a weight loss forum, not an English grammar/spelling so, though I am not a fan of mistakes, I hate it when others attack posters for their written (typed) English. I teach Adult English (adults who did not achieve standard qualifications in British school education for many different reasons) and I know how fragile some adults are when attacked for poor /lower standards and I strongly believe that the English lessons should remain in English lessons or when correct language is important, e.g. job applications.

PS I also like to type as I think on here rather than worry about whether it is correct and I don't have issues with others doing it.

neandermagnon

I was just reading through a post from someone who seemed to be asking a genuine question from a perspective of helping others with their goals and some people shot them down for the incorrect use for your and basically said if you're not intelligent enough to spell I'm not going to dignify your question with an answer.

Being an English and Creative Writing grad, up until the moment I read that post the your/you're and their/there/they're was on my pet peeves list. But this person made it clear to me that this is a form of snobbery that I want no part of. And, worse than that, it is bullying and belittling.

When I was a teaching assistant I had a class with learning difficulties that had these SPaG (spelling, punctuation and grammar) issues and many others. What amazed me about them is that every one of them new sign language because they had previously been in a special needs school with a deaf child in their class. It amazed me because as good as my English may or may not be, it is my only language. These kids already had two without even realising what an achievement that was!

Anyway, my point is that SPaG is not an indicator of intelligence and people need to get down off their high horses and realise they should treat people as human beings even if they are only represented by an avatar.

This rant was instead of reporting the person...but I am still tempted.

Totally agree, I'm dyslexic and sometimes type the wrong word or spell a word wrongly even when I know what's correct. I can't proofread my own posts easily for spelling (due to how my eyes and brain don't always work together that well), and spell checkers don't pick it up if you make a spelling mistake that results in the wrong word (correctly spelled for that word).

Just because someone misspells a word does not mean they're not intelligent, it doesn't even mean that they don't know how to spell that word. My spelling is really good when all I have to do is spell words without thinking about anything else. If I want to write something that has intellectual content (as opposed to, say, a list of random words), then I need a spell checker.

Also, not everyone here has English as their first language.

whierd

*knew <~~~No one else caught this?! It is relevant!!

meshashesha2012

know people IRL who get their panties in a bunch over this type stuff and quite honestly most of them can't balance their checkbook or have a decent conversation about current events because they're too busy looking for reasons to use their red correction pen .

in any case, arguably the main purpose of human language is to communicate ideas. as long as you understand the idea that some is trying to get across then that should be enough. from what i've seen on the internet and on here, the grammar and spelling fascists come out when someone they agree with an idea but can't think of a good enough counter argument, so the only thing left for them is the ad hominem attack.