Will exercising before breakfast burn more fat?

Replies

  • HotMummyMission
    HotMummyMission Posts: 1,723 Member
    Bump
  • BrianSharpe
    BrianSharpe Posts: 9,248 Member
    It's been pretty well established that cardio in a fasted state does burn more fat as fuel but what I've read previously has suggested that the difference is modest at best.

    Considering that the findings were based on a very small sample and the methodology wasn't disclosed I'd be wary of the "20% more fat burned" claim. The real question is 20% more than what? If the cardio was at a fairly high intensity where most of the fuel is coming from stored glycogen the 20% could be a pretty meaningless number.

    You also need to keep in mind that for weight loss purposes the total calories burned is more important than the % of calories burned from fat as fuel vs glycogen. A little OT but google fat burning zone and you'll see what I mean.......
  • particleastro
    particleastro Posts: 68 Member
    Brian I read through my response and I should say that I was replying to the OP, not to you!

    Nope, garbage. That paper has pretty much been torn apart by peer review, and I dont think it was ever accepted for publishing. Its worthy to note also that no where in the paper does it mention 20% fat loss in the fasted state, but merely suggests that measured net energy change is higher in the trained fasted group (duh...).

    There is no significant net difference between training cardio in a fasted or unfasted state, just stick with your preference (as training in an uncomfortable, unfamiliar fashion will have more of an effect).

    WEIGHT TRAINING in a fasted state is pretty much a no-no though. Training of any kind fasted will increase the rate of proteolysis, leading to muscle loss. Not such a bad thing in cardio, but for resistance training thats bad.

    Good Luck,
    JU
  • EvgeniZyntx
    EvgeniZyntx Posts: 24,208 Member
    Brian I read through my response and I should say that I was replying to the OP, not to you!

    Nope, garbage. That paper has pretty much been torn apart by peer review, and I dont think it was ever accepted for publishing. Its worthy to note also that no where in the paper does it mention 20% fat loss in the fasted state, but merely suggests that measured net energy change is higher in the trained fasted group (duh...).

    There is no significant net difference between training cardio in a fasted or unfasted state, just stick with your preference (as training in an uncomfortable, unfamiliar fashion will have more of an effect).

    WEIGHT TRAINING in a fasted state is pretty much a no-no though. Training of any kind fasted will increase the rate of proteolysis, leading to muscle loss. Not such a bad thing in cardio, but for resistance training thats bad.

    Good Luck,
    JU

    article can be found here:

    http://journals.cambridge.org/download.php?file=/BJN/S0007114512005582a.pdf&code=55825bc61cf05bcf7005a5003ed21b36#xml=http://journals.cambridge.org/data/userPdf/

    My concern would be the significance of substrate utilization evaluation method which they used - this method, is seen to have a lot Inter-individual variability by the original researchers : https://www.thieme-connect.com/ejournals/abstract/10.1055/s-2004-830512
    They fail to discuss the variability on their conclusions.

    JU, what peer review discussion have you seen on this paper, would you have a link? I'm not challenging you, I'm interested in reading it.

    Edit: this is a firstview online publication, the paper publication would not normally arrive before end of March.
  • particleastro
    particleastro Posts: 68 Member
    Hi,
    I was just reading the discussion on twitter, I was under the impression that it had pretty much been rejected (although, I am the first to accept that the internet is a perilous place to glean information). You can buy the whole paper for £30 from Cambridge, which I think is a little steep.

    For my two cents I think its damn flaky, but completely misrepresented by the article. It seems to be a regular occurance in reporting nowadays to sensationalise any findings.

    Sorry I couldnt be more helpful. Id be interested in reading the whole thing if it comes out.

    BTW thanks for the link to the substrate measurement paper. Again Id love to read the whole thing but I can only afford to subscribe to a few journals.
    JU

    P.S I just read at the bottom of the paper link http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=8824186 that it has in fact been accepted. I retract my original statment then that it has been rejected, I got the wrong end of that stick!

    P.P.S I can read the whole thing now! Thats what I get for trying to read stuff on my phone!

    Their conclusions are quite interesting. They note that the study is limited to an accute response and that chronic effects may be different. its also interesting that they note that the amount of compensation is different for different individuals, which I think certainly supports the argument that training in your preferable state is more of a benefit than any measureable differences in acute response fasted / non-fasted.

    It would also be interesting to see how the effect is different if the meal itself is changed. Frankly a bowl of porridge on its own is a fairly ill adivsed breakfast (especially given the large amount of sugar in that particualr brand) if taken on its own and the goal is fat loss. I'd always recommend much more protein heavy meal (or, if training in a fasted state, BCAA or EAA ingestion before training).

    JU
  • KANGOOJUMPS
    KANGOOJUMPS Posts: 6,474 Member
    thats when i do the majority of mine....
  • da_bears10089
    da_bears10089 Posts: 1,791 Member
    My experience is that if i don't eat anything, i don't have to energy to give 100% in my workouts. I would prefer not to half-@ss my workouts, so i will eat before i do it.
  • DCpaleochick
    DCpaleochick Posts: 211 Member
    I have been working out in a fasted state (before breakfast) for a while now. It was very difficult at first but now I believe my body and mind expects this and I can do an 1hr of intense cardio with no problem.
  • soldier4242
    soldier4242 Posts: 1,368 Member
    I know that in the army we always did PT before breakfast and during that time in my life I never had any issues with keeping fat off. A couple of fitness experts did come and train with us for a few months and they said that it was good that we were doing PT before breakfast because at that point during the day you don't have anything else in you to burn except what is already there. They said that for this reason the body switches over to fat burning sooner in the work out.
  • jacksonpt
    jacksonpt Posts: 10,413 Member
    Exercise doesn't burn fat. Period. Ever. It burns calories. Where the body gets those calories depends on a number of variables.

    Any increased benefit you see from training fasted will be negligable, especially in the face of performance differences. You'll be far better served training when you are most apt to perform the best than when some optimal condition that involves more variables than you think may or may not be met.

    .
  • Colleen118
    Colleen118 Posts: 491 Member
    do not eat before I workout and I lift 3 times per week during my workout. I find that if I do eat, I feel less motivated and more sluggish. I do eat shortly after my workouts though.
  • K_Serz
    K_Serz Posts: 1,299 Member
    WEIGHT TRAINING in a fasted state is pretty much a no-no though. Training of any kind fasted will increase the rate of proteolysis, leading to muscle loss. Not such a bad thing in cardio, but for resistance training thats bad.

    Good Luck,
    JU

    I agree with this poster. I used to do cardio first thing in the morning. Sure, I lost a lot of weight, but most of it I believe was muscle mass. And at the end of the day, thats what we need to help burn FAT. If you do cardio first thing in the morning, might want to have a protein drink before hopping on the elliptical.
  • rduhlir
    rduhlir Posts: 3,550 Member
    I always thought that breakfast means just that...to break the fast. So I never wake up and go...I usually eat a light breakfast and wait 30 minutes then go work out...that is if my workout is in the morning. In the evenings I am going to try to work out after work but before dinner...we will see how that goes though lol....I imagine non-understanding husband to not get it.
  • krissielynn87
    krissielynn87 Posts: 214 Member
    At BCT for the Army, we always PT'd before breakfast.
    I dropped 30lbs when I was in basic.
    Unfortunately, I've put it back on.
  • jeffrodgers1
    jeffrodgers1 Posts: 991 Member
    interesting discussion.

    BUMP!
  • TrishLG
    TrishLG Posts: 173 Member
    Bear with me. Stanford put 5 groups on the same calorie diet.
    One group ate all the calories for breakfast,
    Another " for lunch
    Another " for supper
    Another 3 balanced meals
    and the last grazed all day long.

    The group that lost the most weight was the group that ate it all for breakfast
    The group that lost the least weight, ate it all for supper.

    The body burns calories during the day and stores them at night.

    Exercise is the same. It has to do with body timing.
    When you exercise in the morning, your metabolic rate is higher all day.
    When you exercise in the evening, you kick back, sleep, and the metabolic rate goes down.

    A trainer also explained to me that when you exercise for a half hour, you get a half hour of increased metabolism.
    When you go beyond that half hour, you kick into high gear, and can get up to 24 hours of increased metabolism,
    so you do get more bang for your buck exercising early in the day..

    Also, most runners say, run on "empty stomach: empty colon." So. . . .
  • sardesc
    sardesc Posts: 34 Member
    I wear a HRM and I exercise in the morning. If I've had a light snack (banana or apple) about 20-30 minutes before I exercise, I burn more calories and I have much more energy. I just skip the fruit with my breakfast later on.
  • skylark94
    skylark94 Posts: 2,036 Member
    At BCT for the Army, we always PT'd before breakfast.
    I dropped 30lbs when I was in basic.
    Unfortunately, I've put it back on.

    PT was always before breakfast, but one of my drill sergeants made sure everyone in my platoon had access to a king sized Snickers bar before our final test. I don't doubt at all that having bit of fuel in me helped improve my performance.

    I rarely have the energy to workout before I eat. I'll eat about 30-60 minutes before my workouts.
  • jcasebolt84
    jcasebolt84 Posts: 22 Member
    When you wake there may be certain hormones (such as Hgh) that may be at an elevated level. However, they are probably not going to contribute a measurable amount. At the end of the day, it all about what works best for you. I lift first thing in the morning before I eat, but that just because I have to work at 6 am and can't take time to eat right away. As long as you are consistant then the results will show....whether you have food in your belly or not.
  • particleastro
    particleastro Posts: 68 Member

    I agree with this poster. I used to do cardio first thing in the morning. Sure, I lost a lot of weight, but most of it I believe was muscle mass. And at the end of the day, thats what we need to help burn FAT. If you do cardio first thing in the morning, might want to have a protein drink before hopping on the elliptical.

    Cheers bud.

    For all you fasted trainers, man, Id be dead. Im eating on the way into the gym!

    Good Luck
    JU
  • LeAjaSimone
    LeAjaSimone Posts: 5
    I was always told that it does not matter what time of day to exercise. The results are still the same as long as you are eating properly. The best thing is to pick a time of day that is best for you and try to stick with it. For me, I like to eat a meal first because my mornings start off pretty busy, getting my daughter ready for school, and fixing breakfast (if I have time) for my husband and kids. Once I smell the food, my stomach is doing cartwheels...lol. So, I workout after my first meal or morning snack. If I wait till the evening then I may miss that day because I am exhausted from my daily activities. However, and I think you may already know this, but to burn fat, any time of the day, the best thing is to stay within your fat burning zone for at least 20 mins. Its hard for me to do that while doing cardio, so I do LesMills Body Pump, a weight lifting class. Best of luck!!
  • krissielynn87
    krissielynn87 Posts: 214 Member
    At BCT for the Army, we always PT'd before breakfast.
    I dropped 30lbs when I was in basic.
    Unfortunately, I've put it back on.

    PT was always before breakfast, but one of my drill sergeants made sure everyone in my platoon had access to a king sized Snickers bar before our final test. I don't doubt at all that having bit of fuel in me helped improve my performance.

    I rarely have the energy to workout before I eat. I'll eat about 30-60 minutes before my workouts.
    Jealous! We weren't allowed any "fat cakes" or anything. At least not until I got medically discharged. But such is life
  • toddis
    toddis Posts: 941 Member
    I thought previous studies showed a small benefit of ~5%.
    20% is crazy.
  • Timshel_
    Timshel_ Posts: 22,834 Member
    It's been pretty well established that cardio in a fasted state does burn more fat as fuel but what I've read previously has suggested that the difference is modest at best.

    This. Latest reading I have done suggests that calorie burn is calorie burn no matter when you do it. Same as people who say to "fast" before bed by eating dinner earlier, so the body burns more calories while sleep. BMR is BMR and your body will burn almost the same weather sleeping or in the day. As mentioned, anything in between is modest at best.
  • Azdak
    Azdak Posts: 8,281 Member
    Here is a link to the entire article:

    http://dx.doi.org/10.1017/S0007114512005582

    look on the page and there is a link to a PDF copy. Hopefully it will work for you.

    I just scanned it because I'm short on time. I was looking for the raw data on fat oxidation during exercise, but missed it. It was interesting that it looked like the breakfast eaters burned about 15% more calories during exercise than the fasters, but that may have been explained away somewhere else.

    I also was curious to see no mention in the references to the review article publshed in 2009 by Melanson et al, that strongly suggested that exercise does not improve 24 hr fat oxidation--and whatever differences in substrate utilization that occur during the exercise bout are evened out over time so that, at the end of the day, there is no difference in total body fat oxidation. Having read that study, I don't accept any conclusions that aren't reached after spending at least 24 hours in a metabolic chamber.

    And even if it were true and the difference was real, keep in mind that a 20% difference in a one hour workout likely translates into about 1/2 an ounce of fat. Hardly worth bothering about. Especially given the higher potential for an adverse workout effect when exercising in fasted state.

    Keep in mind as well that when people talk about "eating before a workout", we are not talking about a Denny's Grand Slam breakfast. The preexercise feeding is more like a 100-200 calorie, easily digestible snack.

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