Agree to disagree! Can we find common ground?
jjrichard83
Posts: 483 Member
So no one will agree on what the ideal diet is. I think we all get that by now. Hell, Vegans don't even agree with other vegans from what I've seen.
I don't think many of you will disagree (but I'm sure some of you will find a way) with the following :
- pretty much ALL processed foods are less than ideal for optimal health. (I said less than ideal to make the devils advocates work harder)
- refined sugar is a major health problem, and consuming less of it (or none of it) is best for society as a whole
- adding more fresh veggies & fruit to your diet is a good thing!
- if you eat meat - limiting red meat & eating more lean cuts of organic (not factory farmed) is the healthiest choice.
I didn't add saturated fats b/c that kinda goes with processed foods in my mind.
These basic rules I've made for myself. I have adopted a vegetarian "style" (I call it plant based) diet.I don't remember the last time I had meat (edit: had a turkey sandwich on the 1st of feb.), but I do love sushi & occasionally some cheese. We don't know all of the things they put into factory farmed animals (I know the pigs in Ontario eat day old doughnuts from Tim Hortons to get "fattened" up), and that can't be good for us consuming their meat. Almost equally as bad - the chemicals they spray on plants (veggie eaters check out CLEAN 15 & THE DIRTY DOZEN), so for many items organic is best.
following these rules has seemed to work for me the past few months. I do not want to label myself as any of the standard titles, but the one that fits best is Flexatarian.
So instead of doing the easy thing and write something negative about the other persons diet choices or suggestions, maybe go research it - look for info that supports their claim/idea instead of bash it down. We all know that there is peer reviewed studies/research for both sides of the argument, so it seems stupid to argue these points back and forth.
I have found that making a set of rules for myself, and reviewing them often to see if they still fit with my beliefs and with science, has worked best for me. Thought I'd share that for the many on here who have no idea - post a question then get a dozen answers. Do the research, make your rules, then see if they stand up to others scrutinizing them.
So... how do mine stack up? What rules have you set for yourself to make healthier diet choices, and what bad ones are you still holding on to?
I don't think many of you will disagree (but I'm sure some of you will find a way) with the following :
- pretty much ALL processed foods are less than ideal for optimal health. (I said less than ideal to make the devils advocates work harder)
- refined sugar is a major health problem, and consuming less of it (or none of it) is best for society as a whole
- adding more fresh veggies & fruit to your diet is a good thing!
- if you eat meat - limiting red meat & eating more lean cuts of organic (not factory farmed) is the healthiest choice.
I didn't add saturated fats b/c that kinda goes with processed foods in my mind.
These basic rules I've made for myself. I have adopted a vegetarian "style" (I call it plant based) diet.I don't remember the last time I had meat (edit: had a turkey sandwich on the 1st of feb.), but I do love sushi & occasionally some cheese. We don't know all of the things they put into factory farmed animals (I know the pigs in Ontario eat day old doughnuts from Tim Hortons to get "fattened" up), and that can't be good for us consuming their meat. Almost equally as bad - the chemicals they spray on plants (veggie eaters check out CLEAN 15 & THE DIRTY DOZEN), so for many items organic is best.
following these rules has seemed to work for me the past few months. I do not want to label myself as any of the standard titles, but the one that fits best is Flexatarian.
So instead of doing the easy thing and write something negative about the other persons diet choices or suggestions, maybe go research it - look for info that supports their claim/idea instead of bash it down. We all know that there is peer reviewed studies/research for both sides of the argument, so it seems stupid to argue these points back and forth.
I have found that making a set of rules for myself, and reviewing them often to see if they still fit with my beliefs and with science, has worked best for me. Thought I'd share that for the many on here who have no idea - post a question then get a dozen answers. Do the research, make your rules, then see if they stand up to others scrutinizing them.
So... how do mine stack up? What rules have you set for yourself to make healthier diet choices, and what bad ones are you still holding on to?
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Replies
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I'm no expert on the subject of public debate, but I get the feeling that if these threads and arguments weren't made, there'd be no need to agree or disagree.0
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I'm no expert on the subject of public debate, but I get the feeling that if these threads and arguments weren't made, there'd be no need to agree or disagree.
Yes, but have you seen how fast vegan threads get derailed? lol0 -
OP - the way I see it, we HVE to agree to disagree, because one diet does not work for everyone.
People have different metabolisms.
People have different levels of insulin, and some are insulin resistant
People have different blood groups, and this MAY have a bearing on what is the correct diet for them
People have different tastes.
People have different political beliefs re: eating meat, etc
People have different amounts of weight to lose - for example someone wanting to lose 20lb might easily do it over a year by just cutting out sugar in their coffee; someone 500lb wanting to lose fast before they die of obesity is going to have to make a complete lifestyle change
People have different nutritional beliefs, re: is saturated fat bad, is soy bad, is fruit bad
All we can do is support one another's choices, and find the diet that is best suited to us, and maybe buddy up with someone following the same diet.0 -
OP - the way I see it, we HVE to agree to disagree, because one diet does not work for everyone.
People have different metabolisms.
People have different levels of insulin, and some are insulin resistant
People have different blood groups, and this MAY have a bearing on what is the correct diet for them
People have different tastes.
People have different political beliefs re: eating meat, etc
People have different amounts of weight to lose - for example someone wanting to lose 20lb might easily do it over a year by just cutting out sugar in their coffee; someone 500lb wanting to lose fast before they die of obesity is going to have to make a complete lifestyle change
People have different nutritional beliefs, re: is saturated fat bad, is soy bad, is fruit bad
All we can do is support one another's choices, and find the diet that is best suited to us, and maybe buddy up with someone following the same diet.
Bravo, bravo.0 -
I think we can all agree that a calorie deficit will bring weight loss.0
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OP - the way I see it, we HVE to agree to disagree, because one diet does not work for everyone.
People have different metabolisms.
People have different levels of insulin, and some are insulin resistant
People have different blood groups, and this MAY have a bearing on what is the correct diet for them
People have different tastes.
People have different political beliefs re: eating meat, etc
People have different amounts of weight to lose - for example someone wanting to lose 20lb might easily do it over a year by just cutting out sugar in their coffee; someone 500lb wanting to lose fast before they die of obesity is going to have to make a complete lifestyle change
People have different nutritional beliefs, re: is saturated fat bad, is soy bad, is fruit bad
All we can do is support one another's choices, and find the diet that is best suited to us, and maybe buddy up with someone following the same diet.
That is it in a nutshell! Well done. Don't forget allergies and food intollerances, they always make a huge change as well.0 -
I'd say that the only real rules I have set for myself are macro ratios, and calorie consumption based upon lifting schedule. Now that I've finally come out of my previous (ridiculous) deficit, I've been able to incorporate more plant based foods back in, whereas I could not afford to do so when my daily calorie consumption was only 1400 at a bodyweight of well over 200.
Hell, last night I ate the first red skin potato that I've had in almost six months.0 -
OP - the way I see it, we HVE to agree to disagree, because one diet does not work for everyone.
People have different metabolisms.
People have different levels of insulin, and some are insulin resistant
People have different blood groups, and this MAY have a bearing on what is the correct diet for them
People have different tastes.
People have different political beliefs re: eating meat, etc
People have different amounts of weight to lose - for example someone wanting to lose 20lb might easily do it over a year by just cutting out sugar in their coffee; someone 500lb wanting to lose fast before they die of obesity is going to have to make a complete lifestyle change
People have different nutritional beliefs, re: is saturated fat bad, is soy bad, is fruit bad
All we can do is support one another's choices, and find the diet that is best suited to us, and maybe buddy up with someone following the same diet.
Bravo, bravo.
Well said! If the same "rules" applied to everyone, there would be no need for nutrtionist/dietitians helping people find diets to suit their individual needs.
OP, I get your point though. I don't have any dietary restrictions or special conditions so I generally follow your same rules.0 -
I think we can all agree that a calorie deficit will bring weight loss.
Actually, I disagree! (Hurrah!) For ME it is the composition of those calories. Because I am hyperinsulinaemic, like many (most?) severely obese folk. When I was sugar and carb-addicted I believed that I would lose weight if I kept to 1500 calories, regardless of the composition. Not true! When those 1500 were comprised chocolate, cakes, Coke, pastries, biscuits etc I did not lose. I also struggled to keep to 1500 because the fluctuations in blood-glucose made me ravenous.
Now sugar-free, I am averaging about 1800 calories a day and losing 2lb a week.
But 1500 calories of sugar might work for others ...0 -
I certainly agree with your principles although I don't stick to them 100%. Heck, if you want to get paranoid, fresh fruits and veggies can have pesticides, insect parts, bacteria... I try not to get too paranoid although I think I've talked DH out of taking hamburger we just bought at the grocery store, spreading it on crackers and eating it raw. Can we all agree that's bad?
And, unfortunately, a lot of the bad stuff they do to process foods and make animals grow faster keep the costs of food down. I know DH and I are blessed because we can have higher standards and can pay a little more for foods that don't have high-fructose corn syrup and piles of good food from the farmer's markets, but that's not true of the general population. I once bought a cabbage at Whole Foods without looking at the price. It was $7.:noway:
Everyone just has to do the best they can.0 -
Quoting OP: I don't think many of you will disagree (but I'm sure some of you will find a way) with the following :
- adding more fresh veggies & fruit to your diet is a good thing!
- if you eat meat - limiting red meat & eating more lean cuts of organic (not factory farmed) is the healthiest choice.
======================================
OP - I don't agree with your statements above, either!
For sugar-sensitive people, or sugar addicts, adding more fruit is NOT a good thing.
I don't think there is anything wrong with red meat! Lamb, beef, pork = all good!0 -
And, unfortunately, a lot of the bad stuff they do to process foods and make animals grow faster keep the costs of food down. I know DH and I are blessed because we can have higher standards and can pay a little more for foods that don't have high-fructose corn syrup and piles of good food from the farmer's markets, but that's not true of the general population. I once bought a cabbage at Whole Foods without looking at the price. It was $7.:noway:
Whoawhoawhoa...what? I don't pay $7 for a whole damned chicken. o_O0 -
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I'm no expert on the subject of public debate, but I get the feeling that if these threads and arguments weren't made, there'd be no need to agree or disagree.
+1
OP are you really looking for common ground? Because it kinda sounds like you're just looking for yet another debate.
We can't even get everyone to agree that calorie deficit causes weight loss, are you really expecting everyone to agree with all the rules you listed?0 -
I think we can all agree that a calorie deficit will bring weight loss.
Actually, I disagree! (Hurrah!) For ME it is the composition of those calories. Because I am hyperinsulinaemic, like many (most?) severely obese folk. When I was sugar and carb-addicted I believed that I would lose weight if I kept to 1500 calories, regardless of the composition. Not true! When those 1500 were comprised chocolate, cakes, Coke, pastries, biscuits etc I did not lose. I also struggled to keep to 1500 because the fluctuations in blood-glucose made me ravenous.
Now sugar-free, I am averaging about 1800 calories a day and losing 2lb a week.
But 1500 calories of sugar might work for others ...
I did not say how much of a deficit. I just said a deficit. I guarantee that 1800 is a deficit.0 -
Don't forget allergies and food intollerances, they always make a huge change as well.
Whoops! Sorry! I dashed that post off without thinking it through (which is weird as I am intolerant to wheat!)0 -
The problem is everyone thinks they know what is best for everyone else.
Isn't that to be expected? If they find something that works, perhaps they get all evangelical and want others to succeed, too? But they are failing to take into account all the differences that I listed?0 -
I guarantee that 1800 is a deficit.
1500 was a bigger deficit, and resulted in zero weight loss (for me).0 -
I'm no expert on the subject of public debate, but I get the feeling that if these threads and arguments weren't made, there'd be no need to agree or disagree.
+1
OP are you really looking for common ground? Because it kinda sounds like you're just looking for yet another debate.
We can't even get everyone to agree that calorie deficit causes weight loss, are you really expecting everyone to agree with all the rules you listed?
+2
The OP's post looks more like a typical diatribe rather than the beginning of a reasonable discussion. Seems like the type for which "reasonable" means "you agree with me." Have fun with that.0 -
no0
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no
Please?0 -
there is absolutely no way i will never enjoy a nice medium rare steak or lemon chicken.
i have seen all the pictures videos of how cows are raised and slaughted, as well as chickens and other animals to be used to produce food for humans. I say dont let them die in vein let them die in a hearty steak sauce or honey mustard0 -
I'm no expert on the subject of public debate, but I get the feeling that if these threads and arguments weren't made, there'd be no need to agree or disagree.
+1
OP are you really looking for common ground? Because it kinda sounds like you're just looking for yet another debate.
We can't even get everyone to agree that calorie deficit causes weight loss, are you really expecting everyone to agree with all the rules you listed?
+2
The OP's post looks more like a typical diatribe rather than the beginning of a reasonable discussion. Seems like the type for which "reasonable" means "you agree with me." Have fun with that.
No. Reasonable means you agree with ME. Geeze.0 -
there is absolutely no way i will never enjoy a nice medium rare steak or lemon chicken.
i have seen all the pictures videos of how cows are raised and slaughted, ...
Don't worry about the steak. If we're anything like Western Europe, it's horse meat anyway
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no
Please?
mayhaps.0 -
I don't think many of you will disagree (but I'm sure some of you will find a way) with the following :
- pretty much ALL processed foods are less than ideal for optimal health. (I said less than ideal to make the devils advocates work harder)
- refined sugar is a major health problem, and consuming less of it (or none of it) is best for society as a whole
- adding more fresh veggies & fruit to your diet is a good thing!
- if you eat meat - limiting red meat & eating more lean cuts of organic (not factory farmed) is the healthiest choice.
1. Of course some will find a way to disagree. Everyone is not you. Welcome to the internet.
2. Pretty much all food, unless consumed raw, is processed.
3. Optimal is a highly relative term depending on the goals of the individual.
4. Organic is magic. http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/organic.html It's a pretty well documented article, and I'm sure that, like everything there are flaws in it, however an in-depth search will reveal the same for presented evidence on both sides. Until nutritional science can publish a definitive answer, you have to be careful presenting either position as an absolute guideline for "optimal" health. This is an extension of the fact that people will always find a reason to disagree, and therefore should quit trying to lump groups into nice, neat little categories.
***For the record, because I know that some won't get it, the whole "Organic is magic." thing was typed with tongue firmly in cheek.
That said, less refined sugar, and more fruits and vegetables are a really good start, if for no other reason that vitamin/mineral content.0 -
(I know the pigs in Ontario eat day old doughnuts from Tim Hortons to get "fattened" up), and that can't be good for us consuming their meat.
mmmm... donut flavored bacon!
Canada wins!0 -
I'm no expert on the subject of public debate, but I get the feeling that if these threads and arguments weren't made, there'd be no need to agree or disagree.
I agree..... 0 -
Short answer: Do what works.
Long debate inducing answer: A calorie deficit is always going to result in weight loss. Always! The problem is the "calories out" part of the equation is not fully understood. There are a million reasons that can skew this number. You could live in a colder climate so your body needs to use more energy to keep your body warm. You could have hormonal issues which can either increase or decrease your metabolism. Excessive stress can increase or decrease your metabolism. And on and on and on. BMR is just an average. Your metabolic rate is constantly changing from day to day. There is nothing static about it.
And I believe (I know this will spark intense debate so sorry) that eating healthier food can increase your metabolic rate. I also believe that regular exercise can increase the overall rate. This is especially true if you increase muscle mass.
I actually would like to see a study done where you have a bunch of identical twin sets eat the same amount of calories (that results in a calorie deficit on paper) but have one set eat Twinkies and the other set eat "clean" food. I'm sure both would lose weight, but it would be interesting to see the rate at which they lose it.
Also, when I eat Twinkies I feel like do-do. When I eat healthy food I feel happier and more energetic. Maybe it's all in my mind, but it still works so I don't care.0 -
No. I have no need to even agree that we disagree. I'll keep doing what works, and will ignore people who feel the need to create a formula for what works. It's the new alchemy and its tiresome.0
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