Should I end my diet and start bulking?

djeffreys10

I need some more opinions on this, as I am having a hard time making up my mind. I have been doing a five day split lifting Monday through Friday. Also, I have been on a diet the last three weeks, eating 1350-1550 calories per day 5 days per week, and between 1800 and 2200 on the weekends. In that three weeks, I have gone from 170.2 lbs with a body fat of 17.5% to 164.8 lbs with a body fat of 14.37% this morning, according to 4 site skin fold measurements I have been doing and using this calculator: http://www.naturalphysiques.com/31. My plan was to continue my diet until my skinfold tests said 10%.

However, the Omron handheld at the gym is telling me I am at 10.8% body fat, and I had a trainer measure me this morning and he said 8.5%. I find that hard to believe given I still have a little flab on my stomach and some love handles. But he said that from looking at me, he would never guess I was much over 10%, because the only fat I have is that little bit around the mid section. He recommended I stop my diet and start eating a surplus and bulking.

So when is a good time to stop dieting and start bulking? How much faith should I put in the Omron over my skin fold measurements? I can't decide if I should loose 5-7 more pounds then start bulking, or if I should go ahead and get started on the bulk. What do you think?

Tricep_A_Tops

I would bulk since its winter and then start cutting for summer.

KANGOOJUMPS

now why the hell would you do that?

Gallowmere1984

If you're anywhere from 8.5-11% you are definitely in a good range to start working toward muscle increase.

djeffreys10

My goal was to get to 10% and start working toward increasing muscle again. I just don't know how much faith I should put in the omron handheld. If it is to be believed, I would just diet another week, maybe two tops. Then start going back to bulking.

dfquigley

In these cases there are 2 things I recommend.

1) Don't "bulk". It's not necessary to gain fat to gain muscle. Eat at a level to maintain your weight while making sure your protein levels are high enough to keep up with your workouts and add muscle.

2) Increase workout intensity. Harder weights, HIIT etc. This will stimulate more muscle growth.

What will happen as a result, is that you will gain muscle, but also continue to lose some body fat.

I have also found that this can help to change up the monotony of just cutting fat and can help against plateaus. I lost 50 pounds, and then just maintained and focused on fitness increases for a while. After that I went and lost another 10 pounds when I cut EASY, but didn't gain a pound while maintaining.

I'm now more ripped than ever, but have similar "belly flab" personal issues. Even other endurance athletes say "WHAT body fat" while I point to the bit of belly and love handle thickness I still have. It'll be off soon though.

Rather than "bulk" "cut" I recommend "maintain while gaining muscle" "cut" Much healthier than gaining fat, losing fat, which is not necessary if you nail your macronutrients right.

acogg

Love that site! It says I am at 14%, all the other circumference sites say 21%. Made my day, thanks!

waldo56

Can you see your abs flexed or unflexed?

If you can flexed you're at least in the 14% area.
If you can unflexed you're in the 10% or less area.

Good rule of thumb for bulking cutting, bulk until your abs start losing detail when flexed, cut until you start seeing them unflexed. Staying in that band should keep you in the ideal area for muscle growth, as well as always looking reasonably good.

Once you get down to 15% and lower, let the mirror (and/or photos) be your guide, visual estimation is every bit as accurate as any other method, and it almost never misses by a mile (8.5% to near 15%, at least one of those methods missed by a mile).

djeffreys10

In these cases there are 2 things I recommend.

1) Don't "bulk". It's not necessary to gain fat to gain muscle. Eat at a level to maintain your weight while making sure your protein levels are high enough to keep up with your workouts and add muscle.

2) Increase workout intensity. Harder weights, HIIT etc. This will stimulate more muscle growth.

What will happen as a result, is that you will gain muscle, but also continue to lose some body fat.

I have also found that this can help to change up the monotony of just cutting fat and can help against plateaus. I lost 50 pounds, and then just maintained and focused on fitness increases for a while. After that I went and lost another 10 pounds when I cut EASY, but didn't gain a pound while maintaining.

I'm now more ripped than ever, but have similar "belly flab" personal issues. Even other endurance athletes say "WHAT body fat" while I point to the bit of belly and love handle thickness I still have. It'll be off soon though.

Rather than "bulk" "cut" I recommend "maintain while gaining muscle" "cut" Much healthier than gaining fat, losing fat, which is not necessary if you nail your macronutrients right.

When I say "bulk" I was planning on eating at around 100 calories over maintenance, 2200-2500 calories per day depending on which calculator you believe. When I end my diet, I am going to slowly up my calories to around 2200 over the course of a week or two while still hitting my macros, and stay there for around 3 weeks to examine my progress. Then adjust if needed. I was going to up my protien from ~150 grams to ~175 grams, and figure out how I want to structure the fat and carbs when the time comes.

djeffreys10

Can you see your abs flexed or unflexed?

If you can flexed you're at least in the 14% area.
If you can unflexed you're in the 10% or less area.

Good rule of thumb for bulking cutting, bulk until your abs start losing detail when flexed, cut until you start seeing them unflexed. Staying in that band should keep you in the ideal area for muscle growth, as well as always looking reasonably good.

I can't see my abs at all. The thing is that is the ONLY place I have fat. None on my legs or arms. None on my back (I think, I can't see it very well). Well, and my love handles as well.

waldo56

Unless you are tiny or have a really weird metabolism, you will not gain weight eating 2500 cal/day or less.

I'm 6'1" 203 lb, and gain about 0.8 lb/week eating around 4K cal/day.

Beginners almost always undershoot their bulking calorie requirements the first time around.

MyChocolateDiet

In these cases there are 2 things I recommend.

1) Don't "bulk". It's not necessary to gain fat to gain muscle. Eat at a level to maintain your weight while making sure your protein levels are high enough to keep up with your workouts and add muscle.

2) Increase workout intensity. Harder weights, HIIT etc. This will stimulate more muscle growth.

What will happen as a result, is that you will gain muscle, but also continue to lose some body fat.

I have also found that this can help to change up the monotony of just cutting fat and can help against plateaus. I lost 50 pounds, and then just maintained and focused on fitness increases for a while. After that I went and lost another 10 pounds when I cut EASY, but didn't gain a pound while maintaining.

I'm now more ripped than ever, but have similar "belly flab" personal issues. Even other endurance athletes say "WHAT body fat" while I point to the bit of belly and love handle thickness I still have. It'll be off soon though.

Rather than "bulk" "cut" I recommend "maintain while gaining muscle" "cut" Much healthier than gaining fat, losing fat, which is not necessary if you nail your macronutrients right.

bumping for plateau info.

Tricep_A_Tops

In these cases there are 2 things I recommend.

1) Don't "bulk". It's not necessary to gain fat to gain muscle. Eat at a level to maintain your weight while making sure your protein levels are high enough to keep up with your workouts and add muscle.

2) Increase workout intensity. Harder weights, HIIT etc. This will stimulate more muscle growth.

What will happen as a result, is that you will gain muscle, but also continue to lose some body fat.

I have also found that this can help to change up the monotony of just cutting fat and can help against plateaus. I lost 50 pounds, and then just maintained and focused on fitness increases for a while. After that I went and lost another 10 pounds when I cut EASY, but didn't gain a pound while maintaining.

I'm now more ripped than ever, but have similar "belly flab" personal issues. Even other endurance athletes say "WHAT body fat" while I point to the bit of belly and love handle thickness I still have. It'll be off soon though.

Rather than "bulk" "cut" I recommend "maintain while gaining muscle" "cut" Much healthier than gaining fat, losing fat, which is not necessary if you nail your macronutrients right.

Everything you say is true, I did the same from last March thru Nov., but just finished a 2 + month bulk last week and gained 11lbs. I have already lost 3 of it since starting my cut last week and only have 2-3 lbs left to go. Its faster to add LM by bulking and cutting then it is to do what you are suggesting.

dfquigley

I can't see my abs at all. The thing is that is the ONLY place I have fat. None on my legs or arms. None on my back (I think, I can't see it very well). Well, and my love handles as well.

Since we all genetically store fat SLIGHTLY differently, the "flexed abs" guideline for body fat % is only a guideline at best,

I am the same way, very thin virtually everywhere, but then a bit thicker right over the abs and love handles.

I want to get professionally measured soon, but that is even only "so" accurate.

Some people need to get to 7-8% body fat AND be slightly dehydrated to see their abs.

waldo56

Can you see your abs flexed or unflexed?

If you can flexed you're at least in the 14% area.
If you can unflexed you're in the 10% or less area.

Good rule of thumb for bulking cutting, bulk until your abs start losing detail when flexed, cut until you start seeing them unflexed. Staying in that band should keep you in the ideal area for muscle growth, as well as always looking reasonably good.

I can't see my abs at all. The thing is that is the ONLY place I have fat. None on my legs or arms. None on my back (I think, I can't see it very well). Well, and my love handles as well.

If you can't see abs when flexed, you aren't close to 10%.

Other signs of 10%/near 10%, an adonis belt, sharp serratus muscles, details in your quads, some striations (especially shoulders, possibly chest), strong deltoid/bicep separation, strong vascularity in the arms.

dfquigley

Everything you say is true, I did the same from last March thru Nov., but just finished a 2 + month bulk last week and gained 11lbs. I have already lost 3 of it since starting my cut last week and only have 2-3 lbs left to go. Its faster to add LM by bulking and cutting then it is to do what you are suggesting.

It'll depend on goals too.

Someone who is very conscious of body image and fat may prefer to stay leaner and bulk slightly slower, or for someone like me who is an endurance athlete, the extra fat would have too much of a negative impact on my running and cycling and I'm better off going the leaner route.

Someone who doesn't mind the extra fat of bulking could do well enough going that route as well, I just prefer that they don't "dirty" bulk, which can do some harm as opposed to a cleaner bulk with a controlled caloric excess.

Tricep_A_Tops

Unless you are tiny or have a really weird metabolism, you will not gain weight eating 2500 cal/day or less.

I'm 6'1" 203 lb, and gain about 0.8 lb/week eating around 4K cal/day.

Beginners almost always undershoot their bulking calorie requirements the first time around.

I agree! I am cutting and eating 2,440 calories per day. Im 6"1, 227lbs. I was eating 3,500-3900 calories per day while bulking.

dfquigley

If you can't see abs when flexed, you aren't close to 10%.

Other signs of 10%/near 10%, an adonis belt, sharp serratus muscles, details in your quads, some striations (especially shoulders, possibly chest), strong deltoid/bicep separation, strong vascularity in the arms.

I've got an adonis belt going, sharp serratus when I flex, a LOT of detail in my quads, shoulder and leg striations and MAD vascularity in the legs and particularly the arms, lots of little veins I didn't even know exist are visible when at rest.

I still see no ab definition, except for an outline around them, where the fat gets thicker, even when pumped up after a workout and flexed

dfquigley

I agree! I am cutting and eating 2,440 calories per day. Im 6"1, 227lbs. I was eating 3,500-3900 calories per day while bulking.

One other limitation, given that I do a LOT of endurance sport, I'm not sure I could AFFORD the nutrition required to bulk as well I have a hard enough time taking in enough food as it is at times

Tricep_A_Tops

Everything you say is true, I did the same from last March thru Nov., but just finished a 2 + month bulk last week and gained 11lbs. I have already lost 3 of it since starting my cut last week and only have 2-3 lbs left to go. Its faster to add LM by bulking and cutting then it is to do what you are suggesting.

It'll depend on goals too.

Someone who is very conscious of body image and fat may prefer to stay leaner and bulk slightly slower, or for someone like me who is an endurance athlete, the extra fat would have too much of a negative impact on my running and cycling and I'm better off going the leaner route.

Someone who doesn't mind the extra fat of bulking could do well enough going that route as well, I just prefer that they don't "dirty" bulk, which can do some harm as opposed to a cleaner bulk with a controlled caloric excess.

My perfomance when I run has actually improved at 231 lbs then when it was at 220 lbs prior to my bulk. And bulking for 8-12 weeks and then cutting once in a while is not harmful. But yes, It does depend on his goals like you said.

djeffreys10

I am thinking the best way for me to approach this may be to start adding 200-300 calories per day to my diet every week. Over the course of 3-6 weeks, I will get my calories up to a better place for gaining muscle. And at the same time, I will be getting used to eating more. I just have a hard time eating clean and still getting much over 2000 calories. That would probably still net me another 2-5 pounds of weight loss during the transition.

Tricep_A_Tops

I am thinking the best way for me to approach this may be to start adding 200-300 calories per day to my diet every week. Over the course of 3-6 weeks, I will get my calories up to a better place for gaining muscle. And at the same time, I will be getting used to eating more. I just have a hard time eating clean and still getting much over 2000 calories. That would probably still net me another 2-5 pounds of weight loss during the transition.

Sounds like a great plan.After losing 83 lbs over a 13 month period It was very hard to force myself to eat enough (healthy) food to bulk.

MyChocolateDiet

just gotta say. I think guys running in the snow and guys with amazing abs profile pics in camo's are exactly the best people to listen to on a thread like this. Carry on!

Kmenczynski88

Can you see your abs flexed or unflexed?

If you can flexed you're at least in the 14% area.
If you can unflexed you're in the 10% or less area.

Good rule of thumb for bulking cutting, bulk until your abs start losing detail when flexed, cut until you start seeing them unflexed. Staying in that band should keep you in the ideal area for muscle growth, as well as always looking reasonably good.

I can't see my abs at all. The thing is that is the ONLY place I have fat. None on my legs or arms. None on my back (I think, I can't see it very well). Well, and my love handles as well.

If you can't see abs when flexed, you aren't close to 10%.

Other signs of 10%/near 10%, an adonis belt, sharp serratus muscles, details in your quads, some striations (especially shoulders, possibly chest), strong deltoid/bicep separation, strong vascularity in the arms.

I have seperation in my quads, delt/bicep seperation, and striations in my chest.... yet my abs do not hardly show through. I store most of my fat on my stomach and i have very thin abs.

Kmenczynski88

I am thinking the best way for me to approach this may be to start adding 200-300 calories per day to my diet every week. Over the course of 3-6 weeks, I will get my calories up to a better place for gaining muscle. And at the same time, I will be getting used to eating more. I just have a hard time eating clean and still getting much over 2000 calories. That would probably still net me another 2-5 pounds of weight loss during the transition.

If you want to minimize the fat gain slowly increase your calories as stated on a weekly basis, when you get to a pain where you are adding weight stop there and milk it. When you stop gaining add in some additional calories.

I came off a cut in October and my progession is as such....

October 2500 Cals - 30 Days, no weight gain
November 2700 Cals - 30 Days, no weight gain
December - 2900 Cals - 30 days, 173.5 to 174.5 lbs
Jan - 2900 Cals - 27 days - 174.5 to 175.6 lbs

I'm sticking with 2900 until i cant gain more then ill add another 200 cals.

No_Finish_Line

I need some more opinions on this, as I am having a hard time making up my mind. I have been doing a five day split lifting Monday through Friday. Also, I have been on a diet the last three weeks, eating 1350-1550 calories per day 5 days per week, and between 1800 and 2200 on the weekends. In that three weeks, I have gone from 170.2 lbs with a body fat of 17.5% to 164.8 lbs with a body fat of 14.37% this morning, according to 4 site skin fold measurements I have been doing and using this calculator: http://www.naturalphysiques.com/31. My plan was to continue my diet until my skinfold tests said 10%.

However, the Omron handheld at the gym is telling me I am at 10.8% body fat, and I had a trainer measure me this morning and he said 8.5%.

very good question, i'm wondering the same myself.

Currious if you've ever tested yourself twice in a row? like one right after the other. YOu might be shocked at how different the out come is. BF% is notoriously inaccurate no matter how its done. Quite frankly its silly to assume you can get it accurate down to .01% when its off up to 4% even if done professionally.

If you ask me its only good as a measure of progress, and for that reason, the sites where you just use a tape measure as input data are better to measure progress because the input data is more reliable then a caliper or a BF% scale. The % may be way off, but at least if the input data is accurate you can be confident that the changes in the result are due to actual body composition changes and not taking a measurement a fraction of an inch in a different spot then before.

IMO, even if you carried all your fat in your midsection, you'd stil see some kind of abs at 10 or 8 %. most men carry the vast majority of fat in their abdomen anyway. i'm guessing your closer to 14% or higher, i'm lucky if i'm 15%.

of course, if your not doing any ab work, that could be another reason why you don't see anything. i'd keep cutting tho

No_Finish_Line

on the other hand, you probably wouldn't hurt yourself buy doing some eating at a reasonable surplus for awhile, train appropriately and then go back to cutting again.

dfquigley

My perfomance when I run has actually improved at 231 lbs then when it was at 220 lbs prior to my bulk. And bulking for 8-12 weeks and then cutting once in a while is not harmful. But yes, It does depend on his goals like you said.

A 10 pound difference will be much more distinct on someone's running in the 150-160 pound range than someone in the 220-230 range

Lost 83 pounds? Congrats. I'm down ~~60 myself

djeffreys10

very good question, i'm wondering the same myself.

Currious if you've ever tested yourself twice in a row? like one right after the other. YOu might be shocked at how different the out come is. BF% is notoriously inaccurate no matter how its done. Quite frankly its silly to assume you can get it accurate down to .01% when its off up to 4% even if done professionally.

If you ask me its only good as a measure of progress, and for that reason, the sites where you just use a tape measure as input data are better to measure progress because the input data is more reliable then a caliper or a BF% scale. The % may be way off, but at least if the input data is accurate you can be confident that the changes in the result are due to actual body composition changes and not taking a measurement a fraction of an inch in a different spot then before.

IMO, even if you carried all your fat in your midsection, you'd stil see some kind of abs at 10 or 8 %. most men carry the vast majority of fat in their abdomen anyway. i'm guessing your closer to 14% or higher, i'm lucky if i'm 15%.

of course, if your not doing any ab work, that could be another reason why you don't see anything. i'd keep cutting tho

I have been horribly slacking on my ab work, not going to lie. But still, looking at me, I can't imagine being lower than 14% right now.

Tricep_A_Tops

My perfomance when I run has actually improved at 231 lbs then when it was at 220 lbs prior to my bulk. And bulking for 8-12 weeks and then cutting once in a while is not harmful. But yes, It does depend on his goals like you said.

A 10 pound difference will be much more distinct on someone's running in the 150-160 pound range than someone in the 220-230 range

Lost 83 pounds? Congrats. I'm down ~~60 myself

Yep it would but I didnt suggest to anyone that runs and weighs 150-160 should gain 10 lbs, Just that I did. ; P Congrats on losing 60lbs!! Awesome work!

LeanButNotMean44

It is virtually impossible to shed 3% body fat in 3 week's time. Handheld body fat testers are not accurate, and measuring with calipers in only 4 places isn't much better. I don't mean to be negative, but if you are going to use those tools for measuring you would be better served looking at the numbers to study trends rather than zeroing in on a specific number.