Possible to lose fat and build muscle at the same time?

nathanalgren

Hey all,

I am 27. male, 181cm and 76kg at the moment. All my life I have been between 76-80 kg and never cared about what I eat or never been active in the gym. I started going to gym regularly and eating more carefully in the first week of 2013.

I go to gym 3 times a week, 15 min running, 15 min biking, then 35-40 min weight lifting, almost all parts of my body from shoulder to leg. I do kinda pyramide scheme, 3 sets, (For example: 12 times 12 kg, 10 times 14 kg, 8 times 16 kg. ) And I have been eating a lot fo chicken breast without oil or salt, and sometimes taking whey protein powder after my workouts.

So the questions is, I have like 19% body fat, which gives me a love handle and a belly. And my upper body (shoulder-arms) is weak, where my legs are strong since I played soccer for years.

Now what I wanna do is to get rid of my love handle, bring my fat to 13-14% anddd buildng muscles and have bigger arms and shoulder. However the dilemma is, to lose fat, you need calorie deficit, which is what I have been doing (check diary) and to build muscles you need to calorie surplus. So how is that gonna work?

Is it better to first just focus on getting fat percentage down with calorie deficit, then focusing on muscle building with calorie surplus? but then wont i get those fat back?

I am guessing it is about my carb/fat/protein percentage and I think I have been doing very well in that sense.

Please advise

Thanks.

daydream_believer

bump.
i am in the same situation!

belle19822000

bump.
i am in the same situation!

Anyone?

RobinV_Seattle

Absolutely! In fact, the more lean muscle mass you have, the faster you'll burn fat because it speeds up your metabolism.

Try some interval training - jumping jacks between each set, or skipping rope or the ever-depised burpees. It will keep your heart rate at a fat-burning rate while you do weight training.

nathanalgren

Thanks Robin but that doesn't really answer my question, in fact I don't think you even read the whole post

jacksonpt

It sounds like you're pretty new to lifting, in which case you can do both at the same time. Maintain a modest calorie deficit and lift heavy.

But...

You will see very minimal muscle gains and your body will soon "adapt" to the calorie deficit making it basically impossible to build new muscle with a deficit.

Building new muscle is a painfully slow process. Trying to do both at the same time is a sure fire recipe for wheel spinning.

Pick one (lose weight or build muscle) and focus on that for a few months, then reevaluate.

emstethem

screw calorie restriction...I say eat more calories...but limit your carbs if you wanna lose those love handles...lot's of protein will help you build muscles while losing fat...Just my take on the matter... good luck Oh, and don't be afraid of eating healthy fats (animal / olive ect) Fat won't make you fat I know this for a fact! But, all that "low calorie" "low fat" crap will inflate you! I eat real, full fat butters and whole milk (even heavy cream!) lol gasp! :P Seriously, eating more protein while restricting carb intake is the answer to your problems. Again, GOOD LUCK!

jacksonpt

screw calorie restriction...I say eat more calories...but limit your carbs if you wanna lose those love handles...lot's of protein will help you build muscles while losing fat...Just my take on the matter... good luck

Is it april fools day already?

fit4life626

Hi there,

I am doing the EXACT same thing as you HOWEVER, I am having my post-workout protein to preserve my muscle mass. I have lost weight and built muscle since October. Let me rephrase that, I have lost body fat and built muscle since October 2012. Although the scale looks slow, I have lost tons of inches and my arms and shoulders and back have gained. My hips are much smaller and pants much looser. You need to calculate your lean body mass to preserve that first..(top priority) then take that number and consume that many grams of protein. This is what enables your metabolism to burn the fat. Im with emstethem on this one in regards to calories. Look at it from more of a macronutrients perspective. Your muscle building will burn the fat and your changes in WHAT you eat will affect your calories naturally. Try to sneak in protein and/fiber in anything you eat. Also, post-workout, ingest some carbs to refuel your glycogen stores..I eat a couple of rice cakes (apple cinnamon with a touch of Peanut butter..YUMM-O) or whatever sweet I had been craving..Ill eat it then. I hope this helps!! Good luck!

emstethem

Hi there,

I am doing the EXACT same thing as you HOWEVER, I am having my post-workout protein to preserve my muscle mass. I have lost weight and built muscle since October. Let me rephrase that, I have lost body fat and built muscle since October 2012. Although the scale looks slow, I have lost tons of inches and my arms and shoulders and back have gained. My hips are much smaller and pants much looser. You need to calculate your lean body mass to preserve that first..(top priority) then take that number and consume that many grams of protein. This is what enables your metabolism to burn the fat. Im with emstethem on this one in regards to calories. Look at it from more of a macronutrients perspective. Your muscle building will burn the fat and your changes in WHAT you eat will affect your calories naturally. Try to sneak in protein and/fiber in anything you eat. Also, post-workout, ingest some carbs to refuel your glycogen stores..I eat a couple of rice cakes (apple cinnamon with a touch of Peanut butter..YUMM-O) or whatever sweet I had been craving..Ill eat it then. I hope this helps!! Good luck!

Thank you! This was put much better than how I put it! As for my carb fix, I crave veggies and berries (blueberries, strawberries or blackberries and heavy whipped cream! yum!) So many people are eating low It makes me sad...they are just setting themselves up for starvation mode... EAT MAN! EAT!

jacksonpt

So you're both suggesting that calorie restriction is completely unnecessary?

fit4life626

Okay so I read info on the both you and jacksonpt, and you both have valid points HOWEVER moderation is key as well as satiation. What a lot of ppl do is have LF/low cal processed crap that usually hides sugar alcohols or sugars (which are later stored as fat) and load it on because a) they dont look at serving sizes, b) they see LF/low cal, they think its a "free" food and/or c) they eat a ton of it bc theyre searching for the same feeling they get when they eat the real thing, such as whole cream, etc. WRONG! The purer the food, the better. It depends on where a person is starting out. If they are used to eating whole fat butters, creams, etc then initially they should continue to use them but maybe incorporate 1/2 instead (of the real thing) instead of something artificial. Those that don't, like myself, find ways to incorporate other real foods to minimize "fluff" in recipes. I also think everyone is different, and react differently to various intake. For example, I make PB cookies without flour. The PB flavor comes out more and I naturally consume less calories because a) I get satisfied with less bc theyre so flavorful and b) the flour doesnt really do anything for it therefore each cookie has less calories. Or sometimes Ill substitute applesauce for oil in baked recipes. And not to toot my own horn, but Im a great cook, I think that is KEYYYYYYYYYY to long-term weight loss..YUMMY food with less calories. But I dont know if you need to necessarily count. Just go by how your body reacts!! And the less processed foods, the smaller a waist line..No joke!! But again, moderation is key!!

jacksonpt

So basically you're suggesting a calorie moderate, high protein, whole food diet?

BackTatJIM

So basically you're suggesting a calorie moderate, high protein, whole food diet?

:X

Cr01502

Hey all,

I am 27. male, 181cm and 76kg at the moment. All my life I have been between 76-80 kg and never cared about what I eat or never been active in the gym. I started going to gym regularly and eating more carefully in the first week of 2013.

I go to gym 3 times a week, 15 min running, 15 min biking, then 35-40 min weight lifting, almost all parts of my body from shoulder to leg. I do kinda pyramide scheme, 3 sets, (For example: 12 times 12 kg, 10 times 14 kg, 8 times 16 kg. ) And I have been eating a lot fo chicken breast without oil or salt, and sometimes taking whey protein powder after my workouts.

So the questions is, I have like 19% body fat, which gives me a love handle and a belly. And my upper body (shoulder-arms) is weak, where my legs are strong since I played soccer for years.

Now what I wanna do is to get rid of my love handle, bring my fat to 13-14% anddd buildng muscles and have bigger arms and shoulder. However the dilemma is, to lose fat, you need calorie deficit, which is what I have been doing (check diary) and to build muscles you need to calorie surplus. So how is that gonna work?

Is it better to first just focus on getting fat percentage down with calorie deficit, then focusing on muscle building with calorie surplus? but then wont i get those fat back?

I am guessing it is about my carb/fat/protein percentage and I think I have been doing very well in that sense.

Please advise

Thanks.

In essence you're correct. Excluding newbie gains at 19% body fat you're going to need to be in a surplus to add muscle mass. If you're goal is to get down to about 13-14% you're going to need to stay in a deficit.

My advice would be to lean out to about 10-12% and see where you're at from there. At that point if you're looking for bigger muscles you can eat at a calorie surplus and cut out the cardio.

As far as people saying to cut carbs . . . I would say do what works for you. If you eat alot of carb dense, processed foods and find it hard to regulate your appetite and stay within your macro goals then consider cutting them out. But if it doesn't bother you than more power to you. It's all about hitting your macronutrient goals.

fit4life626

Nicely put!!

nathanalgren

Thanks a lot for the replies, I appreciate it.

To be honest, I find it quite easy to eat lots of protein and litle fat or carbs. As you can see from my diary (I believe it is visible). And it doesn't make me starve or powerless, I even feel very energetic or have too much energy lately with this diet, for some reason.

So I think I will just stick to calorie deficit and cardio + strength training to keep my current muscles, and once I hit like 13% body fat, then I will move to calorie surplus and see how it goes.

nathanalgren

I do feel that my arms and feet are getting lean and tight, but my belly is quite stubborn to show any advance and it is quite annoying. I am not talking about my weight.

I eat around 1800-2000 calories (like 200-400 cal less than i burn), like 40-20-40 c-f-p. I eat 2000-2200 cal on the days I work out though. (I made my diary public, apparently it was not public)

I lift weights 3 times a week as I mentioned before. Do you think I should change anything or is it just because belly fat goes away last?

Here is my measures in cm:


Neck

39.0 on 02/19/13

Waist

92.0 on 02/19/13

Hips

97.0 on 02/19/13

Chest

95.0 on 02/19/13

Triceps

27.0 on 02/19/13

Thigh

55.0 on 02/19/13

Calf

36.0 on 02/19/13

Forearm

26.5 on 02/19/13

Wrist

16.5 on 02/19/13

marconline

Change to 40/30/30 with protein the 40 in a calorie deficit, you need the protein when below maintenance

dixiewhiskey

You can either:

1) Eat at a deficit, ensuring your protein is intake is higher than carbs and fats while continuing to lift heavy

2) Eat more, lift heavy and do more cardio.

Either way, protein has to be way up to maintain/build muscle and promote fat loss.

And from what I read in your last post, you seem to be doing everything right. Sometimes belly fat is the last to go but perhaps you can increase the days you lift at your current lifting weight OR lift heavier on the 3 days you train? What kind of cardio are you doing? I have had excellent results in reducing BF% with HIIT style cardio - of course this is in conjunction with eating right, 40-30-30 macros (carbs/protein/fat), weight training, etc. I train atleast 5x a week, some weeks its 7x then I have a rest day or two.

Sarauk2sf

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/818594-building-muscle-and-losing-fat-at-the-same-time

ETA: belly fat can be very stubborn and often the last to go.

skimmy1310

Not all calories are the same, they are processed differently by the body.

Stick to lean meats, fresh veggies and fruit and wholegrain carbs but not to excess.

The body uses carbs mainly for fuel, if you don't have enough it will start to eat into your muscle.

Eat moderate calories of clean food, interval training is excellent for body fat burning and improved muscle, also include weight training to point of failure for muscle breakdown and days of rest for muscle growth.

Its not an exact science but the best strategy for long term success is know you body and what works for you, everybody metabolises differently, consistency is key.

mbow1977

Okay so I read info on the both you and jacksonpt, and you both have valid points HOWEVER moderation is key as well as satiation. What a lot of ppl do is have LF/low cal processed crap that usually hides sugar alcohols or sugars (which are later stored as fat) and load it on because a) they dont look at serving sizes, b) they see LF/low cal, they think its a "free" food and/or c) they eat a ton of it bc theyre searching for the same feeling they get when they eat the real thing, such as whole cream, etc. WRONG! The purer the food, the better. It depends on where a person is starting out. If they are used to eating whole fat butters, creams, etc then initially they should continue to use them but maybe incorporate 1/2 instead (of the real thing) instead of something artificial. Those that don't, like myself, find ways to incorporate other real foods to minimize "fluff" in recipes. I also think everyone is different, and react differently to various intake. For example, I make PB cookies without flour. The PB flavor comes out more and I naturally consume less calories because a) I get satisfied with less bc theyre so flavorful and b) the flour doesnt really do anything for it therefore each cookie has less calories. Or sometimes Ill substitute applesauce for oil in baked recipes. And not to toot my own horn, but Im a great cook, I think that is KEYYYYYYYYYY to long-term weight loss..YUMMY food with less calories. But I dont know if you need to necessarily count. Just go by how your body reacts!! And the less processed foods, the smaller a waist line..No joke!! But again, moderation is key!!

I couldnt agree more, I eat around 40:40:20 Protein:Carbs:Fat and try to eat as much as I can each day usually I aim for 2000 - 2300 at least, the main point is not to eat processed cr*p, or all these foods that pose as fat free that are rammed full of sugar! I too cook everything from scratch which means I know everything that is going into me, it feels good to know that the food you are putting into your body is good wholesome food and will give your body what it needs. Obviously I have the odd day where I eat processed, I am only human, but it is the odd day.

mbow1977

I do feel that my arms and feet are getting lean and tight, but my belly is quite stubborn to show any advance and it is quite annoying. I am not talking about my weight.

I eat around 1800-2000 calories (like 200-400 cal less than i burn), like 40-20-40 c-f-p. I eat 2000-2200 cal on the days I work out though. (I made my diary public, apparently it was not public)

I lift weights 3 times a week as I mentioned before. Do you think I should change anything or is it just because belly fat goes away last?

Here is my measures in cm:


Neck

39.0 on 02/19/13

Waist

92.0 on 02/19/13

Hips

97.0 on 02/19/13

Chest

95.0 on 02/19/13

Triceps

27.0 on 02/19/13

Thigh

55.0 on 02/19/13

Calf

36.0 on 02/19/13

Forearm

26.5 on 02/19/13

Wrist

16.5 on 02/19/13

Seems to me your on the right track mate, just keep doing what your doing but as advised above, just see how your body goes, you may find that you need to reduce cals for a little while to lose a little more body fat and then up again, but Ill echo everyone above, the main key is macros, macros, macros! Good luck man

nathanalgren

Thanks you guys.

Well I never eat chocolate, ice cream, fast food or drink soda etc.. I mean I didnt even have them before starting to my diet or workout which is why my weight was already okay, but then I decided to have bigger arms and shoulder without belly. So I think what I eat is not the problem. Also, as you all suggested, my macros are like usually 30-40 percent protein, 20 percent fat, and rest carbs.

I am curious about HIIT, because I often read that if you lift weights for 3 days a week, you should rest body in the other days. Is it going to hurt my muscle gain if I do HITT for like 10 min (30 sec high intense, 90 secs slow, 5 repeats for example) in the days that I don't workout? What do you think about it?

SkimFlatWhite68

What Sara said
Good luck, keep working out, lift heavy and persist!

dixiewhiskey

Thanks you guys.

Well I never eat chocolate, ice cream, fast food or drink soda etc.. I mean I didnt even have them before starting to my diet or workout which is why my weight was already okay, but then I decided to have bigger arms and shoulder without belly. So I think what I eat is not the problem. Also, as you all suggested, my macros are like usually 30-40 percent protein, 20 percent fat, and rest carbs.

I am curious about HIIT, because I often read that if you lift weights for 3 days a week, you should rest body in the other days. Is it going to hurt my muscle gain if I do HITT for like 10 min (30 sec high intense, 90 secs slow, 5 repeats for example) in the days that I don't workout? What do you think about it?

Everyone has their opinion.. I've read that some don't recommend more than 3x a week.. I train doing HIIT atleast 5-6x a week with a rest day or two in between, I've read of others who do the same. Just listen to your body.

In terms of hurting muscle gain by doing HIIT, I had great muscle gains while weight lifiting + HIIT and I do it for 20 minutes 5-6x per week. I don't really see it hurting your gains at all by doing it for 10 minutes on your non-lifting days.. just make sure that protein is high as you normally would and you are good! You can even aim for 20 minutes, still won't hurt you

savbentley

This is what I do, and it works for me.
I eat at my normal calorie deficit to lose weight. I do about 20 minutes of HIIT training a day, and alternate between arms and legs to give each muscle group a break (switch off every day). I eat a fairly high protein diet. I'm still losing weight, but I am absolutely putting on a substantial amount of muscle. I attribute it to how I lift. Low weight, high rep isn't the way to go if you're looking to burn fat/build muscle. Burn fat with the cardio. Build muscle by low rep, heavy weight lifting.

mbow1977

Thanks you guys.

Well I never eat chocolate, ice cream, fast food or drink soda etc.. I mean I didnt even have them before starting to my diet or workout which is why my weight was already okay, but then I decided to have bigger arms and shoulder without belly. So I think what I eat is not the problem. Also, as you all suggested, my macros are like usually 30-40 percent protein, 20 percent fat, and rest carbs.

I am curious about HIIT, because I often read that if you lift weights for 3 days a week, you should rest body in the other days. Is it going to hurt my muscle gain if I do HITT for like 10 min (30 sec high intense, 90 secs slow, 5 repeats for example) in the days that I don't workout? What do you think about it?

Well Im currently doing P90X which essentially has 3 days strength training, 2 days HIIT and a day of Yoga and a day of rest, its working for me mate.

EvgeniZyntx

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/818594-building-muscle-and-losing-fat-at-the-same-time

ETA: belly fat can be very stubborn and often the last to go.

Pretty much this^

I'm posting though for two reasons.
My stats are pretty similar to yours except my target weight is 81-83 kgs (3 to go).

I'm a few months down the road from you in terms of lifting and was thinking this morning that I'm finally seeing belly changes (really wont until those 3-4 kilos go, but some improvement is coming along).

You don't have a lot to lose.
You can either cut quickly and build up from that while doing lifting to preserve mass. A lot of people do that.

My choice was to "culk" as a newbie - eat at a small deficit and weight train (I also run, climb but very inconsistently due to "life") to build up a bit. This is inefficient and I recognize it BUT works for me because a) I needed time to adjust and learn lifting for the long term b) mentally, slow light calorie restriction is just easier as a "foodie".

What happens in this scenario is that what starts as a calorie restriction becomes maintenance and then a slight over eating as you lose. So while you will technically have a hard time bulking with a restriction, over time a slight restriction becomes a slight bulking diet. This is called "spinning your wheels" by some for these lose/gain cycles. Less visible on the scales, strength gains are slower and mentally hard. But it works for me and some people on my friends list are just amazing (but they train harder and more). I'm now at the point where I just need to lose some fat, if I now lose 3 kg with less than 5% of that being muscle loss I'll reach my approx goals. The rest is fitness and tweakery.

Oh, and I eat chocolate every day and Sara eats ice cream. These, in the right quantities, aren't an issue. Hit your macros.

Good luck

nathanalgren

Sara, dixie, savbentley and Mike. Thanks a lot. I really appreciate your inputs. I am gonna add HIIT to my trainings and see how it goes.

@Evgeni, Thank you, I dont think just cutting quickly is the right way to go. Btw I don't eat much sweets or ice cream, because I don't really like it (believe it or not). So it is not related to my diet