One week experiment... low carb to low fat!

ifaber

I think this is AWESOME for you to try! I was basically doing Atkins at the end of January for a week or so, then I decided to up my carb intake and calorie intake because my energy levels were too low to effectively do my workouts at a moderate/high intensity. I won't lie, when I made the switch I had every intention of only eating healthy food but I didn't. Cake, fast food, and soda crept into my diet and while I have always been under my calorie goal, I didn't lose another pound. In fact I was slowly gaining by the ounce ( I did introduce strength training in my workout routine though and that may have something to do with the gaining possibly).

This week, I am re-focusing, only eating nutritious whole foods and since I am in the recovery week of P90X, I am instead doing Jillian Michaels dvds. I have since lost 3 lbs since this Monday. Even when I was taking in a wide range of calories from low to moderate on low carb, I didn't continuously lose. The appetitie control and sweet cravings diminishing was GREAT, but in the end, I knew my body wasn't made for low carb long term. But some people's are and that's fine too. I hate when people bash another person's dietary preference and I will NEVER do that, unless its a ridiculously low cal intake or something stupid like that.

Anyway, after two days of eating wholesome foods, I feel the difference and my body is now releasing water/weight/whatever you wanna call it. Everyone's body doesn't process food in quite the same way, I'm sorry. I don't think its ONLY calories in vs calories out because I work my behind off in my workouts most times and have been under my calories and my body wasn't responding as well. Now that I am giving it the RIGHT FOODS (including over 100g of carbs a day), it is finally releasing whatever it was holding on to! Let us know how you feel after this week. You may even need two weeks to see how you are really affected! Good luck! Nothing but positivity for you over here from me to you!

BogQueen1

If you are feeling under the weather there is no reason you can't add in a few pieces of fruit to your Atkin's plan for a few days until you feel better. Berries, at your stage, should be perfectly allowable on Atkin's anyway, as well as melon. If you are really feeling poorly, try a chicken soup, with chicken, broth, many veggies, and maybe a bit of wild rice if you wish, or maybe some sweet potatoes, for a break without going back to low fat.

Also: you're doing it wrong. Atkin's shouldn't be an excuse to binge on fatty red meats, as you seem to imply you are doing. You should be focusing on fish, chicken, seafood, turkey, pork, and ALL sources of protein, and additionally, a decent amount of fresh produce. I can understand the meat fatigue, which is why induction and extreme reduction only lasts for two weeks. Afterwards... add in berries! Add in plain yogurt! There's no reason you can't, as long as you count each carb.

I do not believe in low fat diets, to be perfectly honest. Your body needs fat to survive at the most basic level, as fats are a vital component of cell membranes and necessary for the processing of many different vitamins. Fats also help us with that feeling of satiation, and improve mouth feel, and palatability of foods. Enjoy natural fats. Butter, olive oil, coconut oil. Avoid processed margarines and things like that.

Anyway, I've seen some people jump in with both feet and agree with you, and others disagree with you, and the people who disagree bring up many valid points. To see any lasting change, you will have to try this for much longer then a week. Also, I have found Atkin's to be an effective tool for clearing your system of processed sugars and cravings, but not really sustainable long term. If you are already finding dis-satisfaction, then this won't be sustainable for you for the rest of your life, and you may end up forcing yourself to eat like this until your body and mind totally rebel and you go on a massive carb binge, and regain a ton of weight. I've been dithering around, trying different things on here for a few months now. Different calorie levels, eating back calories, more protein, less protein, etc. I finally seem to have found something that is working as the scale is dropping consistently now, and this is a way of eating I can sustain for a long time. Don't be afraid to experiment with different things until you find that balance of 'this works for me and I can sustain it'. It doesn't have to be all or nothing in a desperate effort to lose every pound as fast as possible.

366to266

Lahoe:

Atkins for life sounds straight up miserable. Why cut out ANYTHING from your diet? It took me a long time to understand this. More important than cutting out all "bad food" in your life, is learning to enjoy it in moderation. Will i have a chocolate chip cookie if someone brings them to work?

You clearly still don't understand this. Let me help you. For SOME people (carb-sensitive, sugar-addicted, perhaps those who are hypoglycaemic or hyperinsulinaemic, or just have addictive personalities) a small amount of "bad food" is a "trigger" which leads to a binge and a return to readdiction.

Think of an alcoholic. When an alcoholic gives up alcohol he cannot just weeks later start having "the odd glass of wine" like millions of other people do. He isn't like others. Recovering alcoholics have to stay on the wagon.

You crow that you can eat a few cookies. I can't, and moreover, I don't want to. Wheat is just yukky to me these days. Causes me so many problems it's just not worth it.

Aschindler:

Also: you're doing it wrong. Atkin's shouldn't be an excuse to binge on fatty red meats, as you seem to imply you are doing.

1. I'm not "doing it wrong".
2. I do not binge on ANY foods. Where on earth did you get that idea?
3. Red meat is NOT banned on Atkins! Have you actually ever read any of Atkins's books? Clearly NOT. Red meats are most definitely allowed.
4. And you worry about them being "fatty"? You evidently have no concept of Atkins at all - it is a HIGH FAT DIET. 65% fat.
5. Pork, which you recommend instead of red meat, IS a red meat!
6. You criticise fatty meat, then you suggest I eat fat like butter for example. This makes no sense. They are all animal fats.

366to266

@Ifaber

I decided to up my carb intake

Cake, fast food, and soda crept into my diet

while I have always been under my calorie goal, I didn't lose another pound.

Holy moly! A cautionary tale!

This week, I am re-focusing, only eating nutritious whole foods

I hate when people bash another person's dietary preference and I will NEVER do that, unless its a ridiculously low cal intake or something stupid like that.

Anyway, after two days of eating wholesome foods, I feel the difference and my body is now releasing water/weight


Everyone's body doesn't process food in quite the same way,

I don't think its ONLY calories in vs calories out because I work my behind off in my workouts most times and have been under my calories and my body wasn't responding as well. Now that I am giving it the RIGHT FOODS (including over 100g of carbs a day), it is finally releasing whatever it was holding on to!

Nothing but positivity for you over here from me to you!

Thank you so much for your post ifaber. This is truly useful information. May I see your list of what you call the "right foods" please? The trouble is, everyone's definition is different.

One of the things I started focusing on in January was perfect nutrition, and making EVERY bite of food "pay its way" in terms of nutrition. And this mean NO.. absolutely NO eating for entertainment or purely for the pleasure of it on my tongue. And this is why I have not been tempted to eat cookies or chocolate for 47 out of the 49 days. I have looked at a cookie and thought "What will that thing do for me?" and the answer is, it will use up more than my carb allowance for the whole day, it will poison my system with sugar and wheat - and I actually do not want it.

Even IF I do eat low fat low calorie I will never eat wheat or sugar or chocolate again. It's pointless.

ifaber

Absolutely @366to266! Here is a list of what a typical day would be of the RIGHT FOODS for me. I sticking to all natural, mostly nutrient dense foods for now. I'm not a big bread or pasta person (unless I am eating out which I don't do too often). I also only eat eggs and seafood as an animal protein source and I'm not big on eating a lot of it either, but that's my personal preference and not one I think everybody should do. There are lots of lean protein choices to choose from, I just choose not to eat the others for now and haven't for a year and a half now.

I love all kinds of nuts and vegetables, like tonight I will be making a bok choy and broccoli stir fry using some coconut oil to saute them and some spices. Sounds yummy to me!

I honestly never thought I would be so excited about the foods I'm now eating and enjoying. I have made it a goal to eat this way forever, but that's not to say I won't indulge in the OCCASSIONAL cake or ice cream, but even then I will try to make the healthiest choice possible by experimenting with other types of flours like coconut flour and almond or flax meal. Anywho, enough of that, below is a typical day so you can get an idea of what I mean!

Meal 1 - Veggie Omelet with no cheese and an orange
Tomatoes
Onions
Freshness
Cara Cara Orange
Eggs

Meal 2 - usually about 1.5 oz of almonds
Banana
Almonds

Meal 3
Baked Tilapia Filet
Black Eyed Peas
Sweet potato

Meal 4
Blueberries
Egg Whites
Bananas
Strawberries
Almonds

SkimFlatWhite68

I replied in your blog.

366to266

Frankly, I cannot decide what to eat any more.

I spent 3 hours this morning reading the thread about calorie consumption and I am more confused than ever.

snowbike

So, you are supportive of my new diet in principle? You just want me to do it for longer -- is that right? If so, I cannot do it for longer until I have done it for a week. If I am ravenous, bingeing, dizzy, have no energy, crave sugar, have digestive problems, I will ditch it and go back to Atkins for life. If I am doing OK, I will continue.

But I really appreciate the warning that if I GAIN weight, it is because of the glycogen. When would my weight start dropping then, after this initial increase?

Thanks for the advice about protein. I guess I have to continue eating about 100g protein a day. But now it will be boiled eggs, ham, cheese and fish instead of fatty red meats.

I am supportive of any diet where you eat less calories than you burn to lose weight (unless silly deficits).

Just dont get disheartend when you gain some water the first few days. After a couple of weeks you will be back losing again.

vytamindi

RULE 1: DRINK A GLASS OF WATER BEFORE EACH MEAL: NO EXCUSES
RULE 2: DON'T DRINK YOUR CALORIES
RULE 3: EAT PROTEIN AT EVERY MEAL OR STAY HUNGARY AND GROUCHY
RULE 4: SLASH YOUR INTAKE OF REFINDED FLOURS AND GRANI
RULE 5:EAT 30-50 GRAMS OF FIBER
RULE 6: EAT APPLES AND BERRIES EVERY SINGLE DAY
RULE 7: NO CARBS AFTER LUNCE
RULE 8: LEARN TO READ FOOD LABELS
RULE 9: STOP GUESSING PORTION SIZE
RULE 10: NO ARTIFICIAL SWEETENERS
RULE 11: GET RID OF WHITE POTATOES
RULE 12: MAKE ONE DAY A WEEK MEATLESS
RULE 13: GET RID OF FAST FOODS AND FRIED FOODS
RULE 14: EAT A REAL BREAKFAST
RULE 15: MAKE YOUR OWN FOOD
RULE 16: BANISH HIGH SALT FOODS
RULE 17: EAT YOUR VEGGIES, JUST DO IT
RULE 18: GO TO BED HUNGARY
RULE 19: SLEEP RIGHT
RULE 20: EAT SNACKS IN BETWEEN MEALS, DON'T LET YOUR BODY GO INTO STARVE MOOD, IT WILL STORE YOUR FAT IF YOU DO.

Lots of nonsense, but I like the fact that I'll have to fly to Hungary in order to get some sleep.

...and how about that starve mood! I hate being starve moody!

norghost

Frankly, I cannot decide what to eat any more.

I spent 3 hours this morning reading the thread about calorie consumption and I am more confused than ever.

Overthinking can be dangerous. I waste so much time on that. I did two weeks lowcarb (keto) so far in February but I just missed rice, potatoes and the lesser consequence of an occasional "cheat" too much so now I eat carbs again. The important part however is I still counts my calories and I except to keep dropping fat.

My advice is to keep tracking your calories through whatever storm you go through and you will steadily drop weight. Experiment however you like with the amount of calories and the makeup of them, but just keep tracking the cals and try to keep them below your maintenance. I don't know what exercise is possible at your current state, but just generally moving around makes a big difference. Walking around the house, doing dishes by hand etc.

retiree2006

It's understandable that you'd be confused at this point. So many different takes on the "right way" to lose the weight. My advice...(may as well add it here! :-) is go with all food groups in a balanced way. Most times when people go for a more "radical" approach it eventually catches up with them in some way (loss of muscle mass, being tired all the time, being scared of certain foods, moodiness and hormonal spikes, etc.). Being scared of certain foods (ex. sweets) and feeling they'll take over if you go out to shop makes me think you've deprived yourself so much of them that they've taken on their own power. Make your focus staying within your calorie goal and if, at first, sweets win out...eventually you'll most likely cut back on them so you can fill up with more filling and nutritious foods. Whatever you choose to do, wishing you good health!

vidaben

I love your rules except #18!!

I cannot sleep if I am hungary...what to do?

Congrats on your weight loss and your an inspiration!!!

Vida

mud7urtle

have u tried losing weight on a balanced diet?

/thread


no need to complicate things.. Eat at a deficit of no more than 1000 calories and try not to overthink things right now.

DiannaMoorer

RULE 1: DRINK A GLASS OF WATER BEFORE EACH MEAL: NO EXCUSES
RULE 2: DON'T DRINK YOUR CALORIES
RULE 3: EAT PROTEIN AT EVERY MEAL OR STAY HUNGARY AND GROUCHY
RULE 4: SLASH YOUR INTAKE OF REFINDED FLOURS AND GRANI
RULE 5:EAT 30-50 GRAMS OF FIBER
RULE 6: EAT APPLES AND BERRIES EVERY SINGLE DAY
RULE 7: NO CARBS AFTER LUNCE
RULE 8: LEARN TO READ FOOD LABELS
RULE 9: STOP GUESSING PORTION SIZE
RULE 10: NO ARTIFICIAL SWEETENERS
RULE 11: GET RID OF WHITE POTATOES
RULE 12: MAKE ONE DAY A WEEK MEATLESS
RULE 13: GET RID OF FAST FOODS AND FRIED FOODS
RULE 14: EAT A REAL BREAKFAST
RULE 15: MAKE YOUR OWN FOOD
RULE 16: BANISH HIGH SALT FOODS
RULE 17: EAT YOUR VEGGIES, JUST DO IT
RULE 18: GO TO BED HUNGARY
RULE 19: SLEEP RIGHT
RULE 20: EAT SNACKS IN BETWEEN MEALS, DON'T LET YOUR BODY GO INTO STARVE MOOD, IT WILL STORE YOUR FAT IF YOU DO.

Good advise here accept that I would not go for a meatless day.

mud7urtle

RULE 4: SLASH YOUR INTAKE OF REFINDED FLOURS AND GRANI

Doesn't matter what you eat, it's the macro breakdown

RULE 6: EAT APPLES AND BERRIES EVERY SINGLE DAY

This is not imperative by any means

RULE 7: NO CARBS AFTER LUNCE

Meal timing is pointless

RULE 10: NO ARTIFICIAL SWEETENERS

why?

RULE 11: GET RID OF WHITE POTATOES

white potatoes are fine.

RULE 12: MAKE ONE DAY A WEEK MEATLESS

why?

RULE 13: GET RID OF FAST FOODS AND FRIED FOODS

Once again, it's macro count not the food you intake. Just need micronutrients (vitamins/fiber)

RULE 14: EAT A REAL BREAKFAST

You don't even have to eat "breakfast" if you don't want to

RULE 16: BANISH HIGH SALT FOODS

Why? A good water intake combats this anyway

RULE 18: GO TO BED HUNGARY

This means nothing.

RULE 20: EAT SNACKS IN BETWEEN MEALS, DON'T LET YOUR BODY GO INTO STARVE MOOD, IT WILL STORE YOUR FAT IF YOU DO.

LOL, and the worst rule of all of these. Ok so if I'm on a calorie DEFICIT to lose weight, I'm going to suddenly go "starve mode" if I don't eat for a couple of hours and STORE fat? No. Just no

Everything quoted is a load of crap. Sorry

I do most of the listed things and have burned tons of fat whilst doing so.

DebbieLyn63

Your new plan sounds very good to me.

South Beach Plan is a VERY good, and healthy plan. However, it is not high carb/low fat.
It is a fairly moderate plan that recommends lower glycemic carbs, along with healthy fats like nuts, avocados, olive oil, etc.

Like the Atkins plan, you do go very low carb the first 2 weeks and cut out all sugar, but then after that initial phase you start adding back in fruits and whole grains. I chose to not add the grains back into my diet, as my body does much better without them.
This puts me more along the Paleo style of eating, altho I keep cheese in my diet, so Primal is even better for me.

Atkins does have a high fatty meats and lots of butter component to it, which appeals to many, but I'd rather have lower fat meats and use my fat calories on cocoa-roasted Almonds and avocados on my cheese omelets.

You still have to count calories if you need to lose pounds. That is my experience anyway.

I started off with my macros at 40C/30P/30F and have evolved over the past year into 20C/30P/50F and it really works for me. 50% Fat sounds like a lot, but most of that comes from Nuts and other healthy fats. Not only do I lose weight at a reasonable pace for me, but my body feels so much better. No sugar cravings, less joint pain and fatigue, etc.

I commend you for taking control of your health. It certainly can be confusing with all the various info you can read and hear from others. Just be patient, and find a plan that will be sustainable for you for the long haul.

Wishing you the best of success!

mrmagee3

Some quick responses below:

1.. It was all going nicely, then the weight loss stopped, reversed, stopped again and so, after a bit of up and down, I am back where I was ten days ago. To me this is a waste of ten days! I should have lost at least 3 or 4lb in that time!

That's fairly common on low carbohydrate diets, in my experience. Plateau for awhile, then lose weight pretty quickly, then plateau for awhile...etc. I've had times where I've plateaued, weight-wise, but lost inches. I'm guessing it had something to do with water retention, but I didn't bother looking into it too much.

I think, in terms of days wasted, any time that you spend on the diet of your choosing and following it appropriately is not wasted. At the very least, you have another set of data points that you can use to make changes going forward.

2. I have a cold and my body is calling me to eat fruit. This is incompatible with Atkins.

It's generally incompatible with ketogenic diets or atkins induction. Atkins after several months, to my understanding, incorporates some fruits.

3. Many people on MFP have lost over 100lb simply by calorie counting and NOT low carb or Atkins. Many keep on telling me that *carbs are not evil*. Many people claim that dieting is all about CICO and nothing else matters.

It's definitely possible to lose weight via calorie counting. I think this discussion gets into a lot of extraneous issues which never end well - diet maintainability (I prefer to eat a VLC diet and find it more maintainable) being the primary thing. I think that, most of the time, when people discuss CICO, they minimize the complexity of the equation.

4. Some people believe it's good to shake up your metabolism or "keep the body guessing" by changing your diet now and again.

That's true -- some people believe that. I'm not sure how valuable it is, but why not? It's your diet, you get to choose what you want to do.

5. Eating the Atkins way blunted my appetite so much that I have not felt hungry even after an 18 hour fast followed by vigorous water aerobics. I'd like to see if Atkins has permanently re-trained my appetite, or whether eating low fat is going to make me ravenous.

Generally appetite suppression is a benefit of low carbohydrate diets.

6. Eating the Atkins way killed my sweet tooth, stopped me bingeing, taught me to live without anything sweet in my diet. I'd like to see if Atkins has permanently destroyed my sweet tooth or whether eating fruit is going to cause sugar cravings.

Come back and let us know your findings. I'm interested in this.

7. Eating the Atkins way stopped me from having any stomach problems. I've never had constipation, diarrhoea, wind or indigestion . I'd like to see if I get digestive troubles once I eat low fat.

It depends -- if you believe low carb cured your stomach problems, you might be fine. It's possible your diet just created a situation where your body tolerated the food better, and they can come back. Let us know.

8. As I have not tried low fat calorie counting in many years, maybe my metabolism has healed and can take a more varied diet.

Awesome.

9. I am really looking forward to eating a wider range of foods, especially sweet, crunchy, fat-free foods. It will make such a change from eating only greasy, meat foods.

I would suggest that if you were only eating greasy meat foods, you weren't actually following a VLC diet properly.

10. I worry that my high-meat diet isn't doing me any good because of the hormones in the meat and the grains in their diet. I cannot find any grass fed meats.

I don't worry too much about any of that.

11. I have suffered with a lack of energy and feeling depressed. I've had three attacks of hypoglycaemia this year.

This is a legitimate medical concern, and could be a driver for dietary change.

12. Many people say it's better to graze all day, eating little and often, six small meals a day and no fasting, rather than what I have been doing which is fasting 18 hrs then eating 2 big meals in a 6 hour window.

Many people do say that. It's of dubious benefit, though.

13. It will be MUCH easier to eat out in restaurants if I am only counting calories.

This is actually likely incorrect. Calorie counting at restaurants is at best a dicey guess -- and the nutritional information they post online rarely corresponds well to what you actually end up eating, except in restaurants with extremely high production controls.

geebusuk

Note; old thread.

Old useless advice is still useless, however .

Going to be hungry and getting good sleep don't really mix for me.

366to266

Wow who resuscitated this old, dead thread?

I'm doing fantastically well now on a high fat almost zero carb ketogenic diet. So long as I keep to it, that is - I've had a couple of blips, and felt rotten physically and mentally. This is good as it keeps me on track.

Off keto I gained 9 lbs in a few weeks, back on and I have lost 14lb in 8 weeks. I think that tells me what I need to do....

musicboxes

Also, check your daily water intake..I have found that water is a "biggie" for my weight loss. I am striving to drink 1/2 my weight in 8 ounces per day.

ailbheoconnell

Wow who resuscitated this old, dead thread?

I'm doing fantastically well now on a high fat almost zero carb ketogenic diet. So long as I keep to it, that is - I've had a couple of blips, and felt rotten physically and mentally. This is good as it keeps me on track.

Off keto I gained 9 lbs in a few weeks, back on and I have lost 14lb in 8 weeks. I think that tells me what I need to do....

I was wondering what your progress was, well done you!!
I did Atkins myself years ago and found it great for surpressing the appetite. I find the more carbs I eat the more out of control I am with carbs and it becomes a battle with myself. I regained the stone that I had lost in a month on Atkins in about the same time, and went carb crazy for a few months after. I didn't diet or exercise for a few years after that but was always active so stayed at the same weight. I was by no means obese, just more padded than I wanted but I have always loved eating. I love chocolate and crisps and missed them on the atkins. Now i am doing intermittent fasting every day (eating over an 8 hour period like you were) and I find it curbs my hunger hugely. I then get to eat all my daily cals over two meals, so I am full after each one. This suits me down to the ground and the battle is over. I am glad you didn't listen to people who say your body will store everything you eat after you 'starve' yourself. Going 18 hours is hardly starvation! And the more regularly I eat, the more my appetite increases. There is scientific backup for this on leangains.com and the stubborn fat solution. And they are two guys who know what they are talking about!!

I am going to eat like this for life. I think Atkins is great for teaching you to eat protein regularly and large amounts of it. I had digestive problems when I was on it, so quit after a month or so. (was resorting to laxatives to 'move things along'). Now I still focus on protein, now that I am calorie counting. I have a tin of tuna at lunch, fish or bacon for dinner, proteinpow.com brownies or other protein baked goods for dessert, and beef or pork jerky for snacks. Protein and fat are the missing key to weight loss, I definitely agree. Starchy carbs for me are the devil, I only have them with protein.

Well done on your journey and I am delighted you have stuck to it

itsscottwilder

I love people who just "try things" as if there's no science or statistics to guide our weight loss journey.

Your body is designed to process meats/fats. Your body has little need for high amounts of carbs.

TPlenge

Fabulous! Find what works for you and keep using it. I agree with you completely that keto diets work best for certain people, especially those with a genetic predisposition to diabetes.

Sometimes those who are the most informed can also be the most unwilling to open up to new scientific data that refutes their old belief system. I know because I was one of them and crinkled my nose at low carb diets. They seemed to contradict everything I was ever taught about so-called 'balanced diets' and nutrition. Many people (especially as we get older) lose the ability to process carbs the way we used to. I've been a vegetarian most of my life, not a junk food vegetarian, a whole grain, brown rice, veggies, fruit, tofu, low-fat -- all the things we are taught are healthy. No matter what I did though I started gaining and gaining, then I discovered that my blood sugar was sky-high. Severe diabetes is very prevalent in my family. I researched around to see what worked best for lowering blood sugar and decided to give Keto a try. My blood sugar went down to normal almost immediately and has stayed there ever since.

I recommend a lecture given by D. Chistopher Gardner at Stanford School of Medicine (a vegetarian over 25 years) discussing the results of his year long research study into 4 different diets (Atkins, Traditional, Ornish, Zone -- A to Z ). The results took him by surprise. If the link below doesn't work, search on You tube for: "The Battle of the Diets: Is Anyone Winning (at losing)"

http://youtu.be/eREuZEdMAVo