200+ to lose and totally utterly confused!
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Replies
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With all the issues you've listed, I do not think you should rely on advice from strangers on the internet. I would go to a doctor who specializes in nutrition and can work around your constraints, and ask lots of questions during your visit. Good luck!0
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I suggest eaiting a low glycemic diet. Limit sugary foods and junky carbs like candy, cookies, cakes, white bread, chips, etc. Ramp up your protein intake and if that is difficult for you add in a protein shake. Eggs for breakfast, cottage cheese for snack, chicken for lunch, greek yogurt for snack, another meat for dinner. Of course keep fresh veggies on hand to snack on all day and incorporate them into your meals. Even your eggs. Eat fruist as well. Berries, apples, oranges. Oh and nuts. Snack on unsalted almonds. Keep your water intake up. Constantly drinking when you think you are hungry. I eat about 1600 per day. work out 4-5 days per week and will eat back some of the calories I burn when working out. I started working out slowly. You will be amazed and how quickly our bodies adjust and bounce back once you start moving. You will go further and further each time and will feel great. Our mind will always give up before our body does!!! Good luck0
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Consume no less than 2000 calories. 'm currently around your size. I eat 2000 on off days and around 2500 on days I work. Works like a charm for me. Do your own research....find out what your TDEE is and consume 500- 1000 less. That is what I do. I don't care what anyone else is doing.0
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You're getting caught up in the details. The starting point is logging everything you consume everyday. Do this for at least 8 weeks and then start making adjustments. The food log reveals a great deal of useful information.
How many calories are consumed during evening snacking?
What are some of the foods that I consistently eat that are dense with calories?
Are there substitutions that I can make that will lower the calories of a specific meal?0 -
Primal Blueprint and Mark's Daily Apple. Best thing I ever did for my mind, body and health. And I have been maintaining 110-113lbs for 2 years now. I was never obese. I was chunky and was "overweight" briefly when I was 140lbs but my body was breaking down on me. Fibromyalgia. Digestive issues. Skin issues. Blood sugar issues (think these are genetic). Sleep issues, anxiety and irritability. I couldn't enjoy my meals.
I was becoming diabetic on the healthiest version of the standard american diet. A bowl of oatmeal and an apple had me weak and shaky 90 minutes later. And starving. We should NOT be hungry every 2-3 hours. A meal should last us a good 5-6 hours because that is about how long it takes for all the food to leave your stomach. Turned out the "hunger" was a serious blood sugar crash. Reactive Hypoglycemia brought on by those "healthy" carbs. You see, my body can only handle a small amount of carbs at one time. It doesn't matter the type. When I up my carbs I gain weight (and not water. I gain fat mass). If I up them with the "good carbs" then I gain weight slowly. If I up them with "bad carbs" then I gain weight quickly. That's my N=1
You have to figure out your N=1. Primal Blueprint is the best way to figure out what that is.0 -
Hey, I am so inspired by your willingness to do your best here. I don't know how you're eating so few calories and aren't hungry! Try spacing out your calories. Eggs in the morning is a good start, bananas are great for you and have some calories to keep the number up higher. It's good to eat good foods, but don't force yourself at the end of the day. If your body needs more, it will let you know. Everyone is different, which is part of what makes this so hard!! I hope you find your balance and can lose what you need to lose.
I'm going to be a hypocrite and tell you to do as much exercise as you can, even if it is a short walk. You'll start being able to do more with every step! What I do is go to the local mall with my hubby. We walk the whole mall once, with minimal stopping or browsing. It gets me in a better mood for walking personally. You'll find your own way, and will get down to what you want to be. I believe we all have it in us to become the thinner healthier us! It's the motivation and vision that are the hard parts.0 -
You are making this way too complicated.
If you are not losing weight then your first port of call must be to check the accuracy of your calorie counting - do you log everything, do you weigh your portions or eyeball them, do you record the correct calorie count for what you eat (for example the cooked weight of pasta is a lot different from the dry weight and so on...)
Try this experiment.
Select a reasonable calorie amount - say 1,800 calories per day.
Make up a menu for one day which you are very confident amounts to that range: so you have weighed your food, checked the food labels etc. How you want to compromise that is really up to you but try and include some fresh veg, lean protein and fruit is possible. If you are unsure how to do this with accuracy ask one of the folks on your friends list.
Eat that menu for 7 days straight.
I bet my bottom dollar you will start losing weight again...0 -
Work on your diet. Don't worry about exercise. Body composition is 80% diet (what you put in your mouth, not how much). The rest is a combo of exercise and genetics (walk. Do lots of walking. It doesn't have to be fast. As long as you are moving you are doing something). Just move. Be active.
He talks about calories here.
http://thatpaleoguy.com/2012/12/19/calorie-rants-and-ketosis-part-1/
http://thatpaleoguy.com/2012/12/24/calorie-rants-and-ketosis-part-2/
Although this might just confuse you even more.
So let us say that (because we can measure someone’s resting metabolic rate) they need 1200kcals to keep the lights and central heating going in their body, without adding any movement on top of this. And let us say that they are eating a minimum of 1200kcals to keep everything running. We would say they are in energy balance… calories in = calories out. But what happens if, say, the hormonal environment in our soft and squishy biological system causes 600 of those kcals to be pushed straight through to fat storage, locking that energy away nice and tight? On paper, calories in still balance calories out, by our mathematical equation. But something within our biological entity is causing half of those calories to be made unavailable.
And this is again the problem with the whole calories deal. We can’t accurately count them outside of our body, our bodies don’t count them at all, and a whole raft of hormonal and neurological factors determines where the “calories” go and whether they are actually available for biological functions. As I mentioned in part 1, the currencies our bodies do actually deal with are the likes of the saccharides, amino acids, and fatty acids, and these can be fed into various parts of your metabolic machinery to generate your main energy currency – ATP.
Conventional wisdom tends to hold and promote an overly simplistic view of things. This wisdom suggests, by way of analogy, that you need a certain amount of money (calories) to keep the power, heating, and water running in your body, to keep everything maintained, the grass growing, and to fuel occasional trips to the mall. You can make regular payments via the ATM deposit box in the middle of your face. If you run a fairly lean house, you are going to need to make deposits that come close to matching the cost of keeping everything running every day, having only a small savings account to draw on. If, however, you insist on stuffing wads of cash in your face hole, some of it will be used to keep the utilities paid off and running, and the surplus will automatically spill over into your savings account. If your savings account is getting too fat and you need to run it down or suffer some serious withholding tax penalties, then conventional wisdom holds that you make fewer deposits via the face and do more circuits of the mall via the legs. And because you are now spending more than you are depositing, the difference can be funded from savings.
This model assumes that you have a way of depositing only one currency – calories (calories are all that counts), spending only one currency (calories fuelling metabolic processes) and have only two accounts to balance – your day-to-day cheque account (for metabolism to immediately draw on), and your savings account (fat storage). But what if the model actually worked more like this…
You need to make daily deposits to keep everything running. But instead of paying for everything with one currency, the different processes actually require different currencies. Some processes require the currency of glucose, whilst others require the currency of fatty acids. Some processes prefer one currency over the other, but will ultimately accept both, though perhaps with a few fees and transaction penalties for you paying with one instead of the other. Some processes, such as growth, maintenance, and repair require more of the amino acid currency than anything else, and indeed, if you don’t put enough of this currency in, things start to get a bit run down and you end up robbing Peter to pay Paul.
It is possible to deposit too much of any of the currencies, but with some of the currencies being worth more than others, and with economic conditions at the time dictating that one might be of more value than other, this is a highly variable thing. If you, for example, continually flood the market with glucose, it soon isn’t worth that much. So best to save some of it to smaller accounts in your liver and muscles, and then convert much of the excess to a different currency altogether and to lock that into a term deposit – you can get it back when economic conditions improve.
Other currencies, even if they appear to have the same face value, such as glucose and fructose, actually hold completely different values in different markets (a bit like $10AUD vs. $10NZD). They look similar, but in reality, it is actually best to get a whole wad of the fructose and convert to a more valuable currency – like fatty acids (for a fee and penalty for flooding the market with a weak currency). Of course, if you are flooding the market with a currency that is better just to be converted and spent, then there isn’t much point in pulling more of the same currency out of savings.
You could play around with this analogy forever. But the bottom line is that your body runs multiple accounts, deals in multiple currencies, has term deposits, and won’t release savings unless the economic environment is right to do so. You can easily have a situation where some accounts and currencies are spent and running on overdraft, but the body just won’t release savings/term deposits because it isn’t right to do so.
When someone suggests that “calories count”, before reaching for your calorie tables and calculator, ask yourself where calories come… ask yourself how you get calories into your body. Obviously, you get them from eating food (and if you don’t believe me, try to go to the supermarket and buy a packet, tin, box, or bag of “calories” – you can’t do it). Calories don’t count, but the food currencies you eat, and the “economic environment” that they, your sleep and activity patterns, stress levels, etc. create, do count. People like Robb and others are quite right in suggesting that it isn’t all about the carbohydrates on the plate… that you can’t just eat low carb and get a free pass on everything else… that you can’t eat sources of fat and protein with impunity. But we do the subject an injustice, we confuse people, and we are perhaps being a little intellectually dishonest, when we short-hand the proteins, fats, and alcohol to “calories count”. It might be me being pedantic and arguing semantics, but I have seen how people interpret “calories” and the numbers they start tracking.
Because so many non-food factors influence your “economic environment” (e.g. hormones), counting calories and simply trying to balance energy in and energy out equations, sees people missing the larger (and perhaps more important) qualitative picture. You could have the calorie numbers squared away, but not be sleeping, walking, getting out in the sun, maintaining healthy relationships, being engaged in something that mentally stimulates you, not getting out in natural environments, be an angsty ball of stress, and so on, and you will not be getting the results you want to see in terms of how you look, feel and perform, and the answer is most certainly not to screw the calorie equation down even tighter.0 -
A couple of things. When someone has 100+ lbs to lose, they can very easily eat below the BMR as you have a substantial amount of fat stores to supply energy. And at that weight, TDEE -30% or 40% would be fine as well. TDEE -20% is for those that are closer to a normal weight for their stats.
Fasting is fine as well. Anyone who is against it generally doesn't understand the concept or it doesn't fit into their lifestyle. The 5:2 fast has also been the one that has caused the most issues. Many people think it's great to do the two days of 500 calories for fasting but then follow it up with 5 days of calorie restriction. This is where it's unhealthy as it doesn't supply enough calories over the week and can lead to more muscle loss than fat loss, especially those with lower body weight. In all reality, whether you get 2000 calories in a 16 hour window or a 4 hour window, it will still supply the same results.
Just follow MFP's recommendations. On days you work out, I would suggest eating a few more calories, especially protein based calories to improve your ability to repair muscle. If you have a 2 lb per week deficit and you find yourself binging, adjust your goal to 1.5lb. Also eat foods high in protein and fats. Both will keep you full long which will also reduce the chances of binging. And lastly, keep in mind this is not a short term thing. Teaching yourself that it's OK to have a cheat meal once and awhile is not a bad thing.
This.0 -
I can really sympathize! I have about 100 to lose and it is utterly daunting. Like you I see SO many options out there and I feel overwhelmed with making the right choices.
Thinking about it as I read your thread, I realize that this is some of the same "stinking thinking" that got me where I am today. I had to do it "right". I had to figure out the very best, most optimal diet plan bar none. For years this has kept me from doing anything. After all we all know the saying, "If you can't do something right, don't do it at all."
This is only my second day, so I have limited experience (this time around), but who cares how it's done? Who cares if I lose 35lbs. in the time when I "should" lose 40? At this point either number would delight me!
My "plan" is to start out by learning. I am going to use the MFP built-in calorie plan and combine it with the use of "Striv", a fun and free app I found here yesterday that tracks my walking and rewards me with coins and energy to play a fun, but silly, little game. Best of all, it keeps up with my total steps all day, so the extra effort of parking further away from the store is rewarded.
I plan to diet just one day at a time and to stick with it no matter what! I will do this for as long as it's working for me and adjust as I need to because the simple truth is that there is no perfect way to get there. I will value each single pound lost because it's a victory against weight gain and I will greedily sop up all of the support I can get!
Stay tuned!0 -
I went from 373 to 174 pounds in 20 months just before Christmas last year.
I didn't do anything special other than low carb 90% of the time and around 1500 calories a day. I didn't stick to the same amount of every day so I occasionally went a bit below and bit above 1500. As time went on I up to around 1800. With so much extra weight, more deficit is possible. I lost 4 pounds in a week many times but overall it was as small as 0.5 a pound towards the end of the last year.
I still had the odd day when I had my favourite foods like burgers, white bread, cheese and so on. I just had to limit it compare to how much I used to eat those sort of things.
One of my problems was snacking so I did stop that straight away.
Now I am learning to maintain but still around 10 pounds overweight but that can come off as little as 1 pound a month. I tend to go up over weekends and back down the following week. I lost only 1.5 pounds so far this year but that is ok with me.0 -
I agree with so many here!
Talk to your Dr and a nutritionist.
Buy a food scale, digital is best.
Weigh and measure everything.
Be patient.....it took a while to gain, it will take a while to lose.
Keep up the good work!
Find a good support group...internet or in person.
:flowerforyou:0 -
Wow!
30 replies! Took me ages but I read every word of every one of them.
Thank you everyone very much for taking the time and the trouble.
I wish I could write replies to all the points made but it would take me literally till bedtime and beyond (it's now 3.30pm)
You have sent me some links and other things to look up online so I will do that.
These links were awesome!
http://thatpaleoguy.com/2012/12/19/calorie-rants-and-ketosis-part-1/
http://thatpaleoguy.com/2012/12/24/calorie-rants-and-ketosis-part-2/
I bought electronic scales and have been totally OCD with weighing, measuring, and logging my foods since 6th January. It all on fatsecret - my diary is public. I even log the milk in my tea.
HP mentioned reactive hypoglycaemia (RH) -- I suffered from that for 17 years. Uses to have horrendous panic attacks from eating refined sugars. The docs treated it as a nervous illness. I lost all faith in them after a kinesiologist told me I had RH.
Speaking of docs, in response to the many posters who suggested consulting medics. I have consulted doctors, nutritionists, dieticians, and I have even been sent to the top endocrinologist in my county (after 19 months on the NHS waiting list). The docs (have seen about 15 of them) and the endo had no advice on weight loss other than to tell me that I should "go and lose weight" because my supermorbid obesity will kill me. One doc gave me a booklet called Losing Weight and Keeping it Off, which I still have, and which recommends eating a diet mainly of sugar, bread, pasta and fruit and very little protein and fat. A bit difficult when I have given up all grains and sugars! The head of the surgery I currently go to weighs 280lb and neither he nor his five colleagues have been able to cure him despite having collectively hundreds of impressive letters after their names. The nutritionist simply told me to eat "whole foods" and "healthy grains" and to avoid saturated fat, which apparently kills you in a week (lol).
The dietician was horrified, appalled and disgusted at the amount of meat and fat I ate. She placed me on a vegan wholefood organic diet comprising home made muesli, grain breads, nuts, pulses, seeds and live sprouting things. Cost me a fortune to buy it all from the little whole food boutique. I lasted one day on this and was so ill I had to come off it. When I emailed her to tell her how ill it made me, she said that after I left she researched my medical condition on the net (!!!) and concluded that Atkins was right for me but I should do the low fat version as fat was a killer. I was bloody furious at having paid out so much money for a load of nonsense. Still, next door's rabbit really enjoyed the expensive organic wholefoods I donated to it!
Helena
PS I'm so impressed by nwg's reduction from 373 to 174. OMG I would do anything to emulate that!0 -
Great job on taking the plunge to a healthier you!! As I'm not a nutritionist I can't tell you how much your intake should be but I agree with a few posts that you should just take a few weeks to religiously track what you regularly eat. It gives ou something to look at and figure out what needs tweaking. The hardest part of weight loss I face is forgetting to track and picking at food between meals. I find once I start tracking I stop that "boredom" eating. For now I'm not changing up much except tracking daily. If you can make an appointment to see a doctor or better yet a nutritionist in a few weeks. Make it your goal to be tracking daily by then so you have something to discuss with whoever.
Another thing maybe get a few sets of weights and a few resistance bands and start doing simple exercises with them to strengthen you legs and upper body up. Nothing extreme, slow and steady. It's frustrating but as long as you keep moving forward you will always be better off than the day before. Don't think about you big goal, just think about how much better you feel each day. Don't forget there are always plenty of supportive people on here to give you that much needed push.0 -
Don't start by making things to complicated or worrying about minute details. Keep in mind how long it took to gain the weight and think about what you were eating/doing to cause the weight gain. With a 200lb total loss in mind, you can start by changing a few things and walking daily and I bet you will find that will lead to progression for many weeks. During that time, start reading some good books on nutrition. Not silly diet books, but books written by people that truly care about helping others change their lifestyle. Please do not think of this journey as a diet. It is about a lifestyle change. The meals and exercise must fit your lifestyle for it to work. This will be a learning experience. While you experiment with different things keep track of your energy levels, mood and your cravings. If those start to suffer, adjust what you are doing so you can maintain this for many many months. Starting with an overly restrictive plan can work for some if they have incredible motivation, but for many it leads to short lived experiment.
Good luck0 -
Wow!
30 replies! Took me ages but I read every word of every one of them.
Thank you everyone very much for taking the time and the trouble.
I wish I could write replies to all the points made but it would take me literally till bedtime and beyond (it's now 3.30pm)
You have sent me some links and other things to look up online so I will do that.
These links were awesome!
http://thatpaleoguy.com/2012/12/19/calorie-rants-and-ketosis-part-1/
http://thatpaleoguy.com/2012/12/24/calorie-rants-and-ketosis-part-2/
I bought electronic scales and have been totally OCD with weighing, measuring, and logging my foods since 6th January. It all on fatsecret - my diary is public. I even log the milk in my tea.
HP mentioned reactive hypoglycaemia (RH) -- I suffered from that for 17 years. Uses to have horrendous panic attacks from eating refined sugars. The docs treated it as a nervous illness. I lost all faith in them after a kinesiologist told me I had RH.
Speaking of docs, in response to the many posters who suggested consulting medics. I have consulted doctors, nutritionists, dieticians, and I have even been sent to the top endocrinologist in my county (after 19 months on the NHS waiting list). The docs (have seen about 15 of them) and the endo had no advice on weight loss other than to tell me that I should "go and lose weight" because my supermorbid obesity will kill me. One doc gave me a booklet called Losing Weight and Keeping it Off, which I still have, and which recommends eating a diet mainly of sugar, bread, pasta and fruit and very little protein and fat. A bit difficult when I have given up all grains and sugars! The head of the surgery I currently go to weighs 280lb and neither he nor his five colleagues have been able to cure him despite having collectively hundreds of impressive letters after their names. The nutritionist simply told me to eat "whole foods" and "healthy grains" and to avoid saturated fat, which apparently kills you in a week (lol).
The dietician was horrified, appalled and disgusted at the amount of meat and fat I ate. She placed me on a vegan wholefood organic diet comprising home made muesli, grain breads, nuts, pulses, seeds and live sprouting things. Cost me a fortune to buy it all from the little whole food boutique. I lasted one day on this and was so ill I had to come off it. When I emailed her to tell her how ill it made me, she said that after I left she researched my medical condition on the net (!!!) and concluded that Atkins was right for me but I should do the low fat version as fat was a killer. I was bloody furious at having paid out so much money for a load of nonsense. Still, next door's rabbit really enjoyed the expensive organic wholefoods I donated to it!
Helena
PS I'm so impressed by nwg's reduction from 373 to 174. OMG I would do anything to emulate that!
There is nothing wrong with meat. If you do restrict any meat, eliminate processed meats as they are higher in calories and many are full of nitrites. Adding a few servings of fish can be beneficial as well as they are loaded with healthy fats and oils. Additionally, when looking at meat, try to get ones higher in total fat but low in saturated fat. I know the evidence around saturated fat is still inconclusive but it can't hurt. I would say, higher fats and protein = more satiety. Other than that, I aim for 30-50g of fiber a day as well to keep the digestive track sound. If you cut grains, cool... they aren't necessary. If you can eat them and still lose, great.. if not, you can still hit all your micronutrients without them.0 -
A couple of things. When someone has 100+ lbs to lose, they can very easily eat below the BMR as you have a substantial amount of fat stores to supply energy. And at that weight, TDEE -30% or 40% would be fine as well. TDEE -20% is for those that are closer to a normal weight for their stats.
Fasting is fine as well. Anyone who is against it generally doesn't understand the concept or it doesn't fit into their lifestyle. The 5:2 fast has also been the one that has caused the most issues. Many people think it's great to do the two days of 500 calories for fasting but then follow it up with 5 days of calorie restriction. This is where it's unhealthy as it doesn't supply enough calories over the week and can lead to more muscle loss than fat loss, especially those with lower body weight. In all reality, whether you get 2000 calories in a 16 hour window or a 4 hour window, it will still supply the same results.
Just follow MFP's recommendations. On days you work out, I would suggest eating a few more calories, especially protein based calories to improve your ability to repair muscle. If you have a 2 lb per week deficit and you find yourself binging, adjust your goal to 1.5lb. Also eat foods high in protein and fats. Both will keep you full long which will also reduce the chances of binging. And lastly, keep in mind this is not a short term thing. Teaching yourself that it's OK to have a cheat meal once and awhile is not a bad thing.
This ^^
After reading your follow up post, it seems like you have a pretty good idea of what foods agree with you and which ones don't. As long as you are getting a balanced diet from the foods you can eat, I'm certain that you will be successful by simply eating the right amount. I know the "right amount" is what is in dispute. But as psulemon noted in his post, you have more leeway on calorie range right now than those who have less pounds to lose. Be consistent and remember there aren't any special magic foods to eat or not eat, as long as you are getting enough nutrients. All the best to you, and hope to see you posting progress reports!0 -
PS I'm so impressed by nwg's reduction from 373 to 174. OMG I would do anything to emulate that!
Thanks. It has been hard work especially as I have been overweight for 25 years ! I recently looked at some old photos when I was around 14 and couldn't believe what I looked like.
The most important thing for me was to stay positive and have plenty of willpower as I knew it was going to take time. I am not ashamed to say my willpower is not as strong as it used to be but I am learning to maintain / lose slower and I have to eat more calories to do that.0 -
I have read quite a few journal articles re: morbidly obese patients not having to be concerned w/ eating too few calories (when compared w/ overweight patients) due to the amount of surplus energy you have available, so you can drop your caloric intake to way below your BMR because of this, but you do still need to be concerned w/ muscle loss, so exercise what you can and keep up your proteins.
In the same aspect, you will be able to lose 5-10 pounds a week for 100-200 pounds because of having an abundance and your body recognizes that and doesn't 'freak out' about it.
Atkins diet may work for you now, but when you get to 'overweight' status, you may be able to do some of the stuff that your body fights now. You need to make sure to keep in contact w/ your physician due to possible changes in insulin production, blood pressure, or other items that are more significant in your situation due to the dramatic change.
Every 25-50 pounds lost, re-calculate your TDEE and BMR...you will slowly creep your caloric intake to be that of the 'recommended value' as you get closer to you 'recommended weight'.
It is awesome that you are taking this step...please take everyone's opinion as what it is...'opinion'. Talk to a physician, but in the meantime, this is the best information I can pass along.0 -
Hi,
Due to the amount of weight that you are looking to shift the history of medical conditions that will probably have a bearing on the timing and amount that you will shift, It seems advisable to go to a professional in this case to really look into your personal situation and create a program for you, if you can't afford to keep going to them one session will probably be enough to at least get what your minimum and maximum calorie intake should be.
Look into super foods, they are calorie dense and nurishing. Try to eat food in it's most natural state. Drink mostly water with lemon or lime, I have a feeling your Ph balance is mostly acidic so this will help bring it into alkaline, do some research on Ph balance it is very important to get this into balance for optimum health and longivity. When choosing your fats, choose wisely, bacon? is that really the best kind of fat? I remember hearing that atkins allows that. Look into foods with the healthiest kinds of fats (nuts, seeds, avocadoes, salmon, savi seeds, chia seeds) these all have Omega 3 fatty acids the healthiest kinds of fats. Limit your intake of processed foods, low fat (aspertame)
When you start to feel better and some of the weight begins to shift, it is important to start moving just a little more every day. Every extra step that you take will make you stronger and will lead to a healthier body. Yes diet is mostly what matters but if fitness isn't part of your transformation then you will just become smaller but not stronger.
I wish you luck, big changes are never easy, once you find the right thing for you, the weight may come off fast for awhile then slow. Never give up, try to keep making better choices every day and remember that this is for your health and happiness, looking good is a bonus:-)0
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