Deep Squats "*kitten* to the grass"

nturner612

I first heard about Deep Squats here on MPF. i googled and youtubed and decided to try. What happeed? It about ruined my knees! No lie. I had NEVER had any kind of pronbs with my knees till i tried these out! it started by "clicking" or like something was shifting in my knee cap. long story short i stopped them, eventually had to stop runnin (in the middle of trainin for a half marathon) and almost gave up lunges and squats. then i was told to try these "glososamin" or whatever they are called pills, and after resting (and gaining lik5lbs thanks to this n my mouth) my knee is almost back to norma! i can run again!!!!

did anyone else experience this with this exercise?

RMeDude

I have had bad knees for at least 10 years. I still run a lot and just bear with it. I started deep squats in January and my knees are feeling way better than before. I started the Stronglifts program, which means my squats beagn with just a bar, and have slowly worked their way up.
Deep squats have saved my knees!

nturner612

hmm perhaps i was doing something wrong then. :sad:

RMeDude

Not sure, maybe too much weight. i started deep squats with the empty bar. The program I am following increases by 5 lbs every workout, so I really havent been putting a load on my knees.

seekingstrengthX2

I agree. Squats have actually HELPED my knee problems.

And... it's glucosamine, silly girl.

:laugh:

seekingstrengthX2

It's critical that your knees NOT go over your toes. You should be leaning backwards, with your weight on the bar. Do them in a squat rack, not free in the middle of the weight area. They can mess up your knees badly if your form is not correct.

chrisb75

One of two things is happening. You are squatting too much weight or you are using bad form. Are you doing barbell squats?

jonnythan

I used to have constant knee problems after partially tearing my MCL back in 2000.

ATG squats made the pain go away in a matter of months.

It's possible your anatomy isn't quite compatible with them, or you were doing something wrong. It's easy to screw your knees up by bringing them in on the power move. It's an easy thing to not notice, too. It's super critical that your knees stay in line with your feet.

Taraanne76

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ME8gEN54Ao

This video series really helped me improve my form that I thought was pretty good already.

pattyproulx

How deep is deep? Is it possible to go too low?

I go at or just below parallel and have not had issues. As others have said, start light, ensure your form is good, and work your way up and you *shouldn't* have issues.

chrisb75

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ME8gEN54Ao

This video series really helped me improve my form that I thought was pretty good already.

That is a great video, as is this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnV7vEi7Sz8

KiltFuPanda

I used to have stiff knees that would whine at me if I even looked at them wrong. I'd have to wear knee sleeves to keep everything warm and together, and I was afraid I'd blow out if I went below parallel. On heavy lifts I'd have to go to knee wraps.

Then I started working with deep squats last year- a combination of form training at lighter weights, mixed with some long paused squats (like 5 seconds at a time). The form training got me to fix my positioning so I wasn't stressing the joints in the wrong way, and the long pauses not only build up the support muscles, but acted as a press to push me down to the ground further.

I just pushed 565 this week, no knee wraps, and went well below parallel. Knees didn't even complain a bit, and flexibility has definitely improved.

dinosnopro

I'm suspecting a muscle imbalance my be an issue. If you have stronger quads than hamstrings it could cause problems. I would try hamstring strengthening accessory lifts, or the other way around if you have strong hamstrings and weak quads.

I wouldn't worry too much about knee tracking over the toes, I think that thought is geared more for lunges.

scottdeeby

The Starting Strength book has an excellent, very detailed description of good squatting technique.

Edit: See that graphic above? That's from the SS book

Loftearmen

I first heard about Deep Squats here on MPF. i googled and youtubed and decided to try. What happeed? It about ruined my knees! No lie. I had NEVER had any kind of pronbs with my knees till i tried these out! it started by "clicking" or like something was shifting in my knee cap. long story short i stopped them, eventually had to stop runnin (in the middle of trainin for a half marathon) and almost gave up lunges and squats. then i was told to try these "glososamin" or whatever they are called pills, and after resting (and gaining lik5lbs thanks to this n my mouth) my knee is almost back to norma! i can run again!!!!

did anyone else experience this with this exercise?

That happened because you weren't sitting back into your squats, you were sitting down and thus placing a majority of the tension on the patellar tendon. By sitting back you can distribute the load amongst the anterior and posterior musculature of the thigh and also distribute tension more evenly between the knee and the hip.

yankeedownsouth

The Starting Strength book has an excellent, very detailed description of good squatting technique.

Edit: See that graphic above? That's from the SS book

This. Excellent book for learning all things squats (and deadlifts and presses and bench... )

RandiLandCHANGED

*kitten* to grass feels better for me but I have gained a lot of flexibility lately. I started with Stronglifts.

hesn92

maybe you didn't have the right form. When I do squats I don't really go that low. I just go to the point where my thighs are parallel to the floor. I've heard people go lower than that, but I don't.

Docmahi

believe it or not since i switched to ATG squats where my calves touch my hamstrings before I ascend it has taken a lot of pressure off of my knee - both because I am pushing less weight and because the movement feels better to me then the quarter or half squats I was doing.

I also switched to an elevated heel which helped my pathing become a lot more natural.

glucosamine is a supplement that a lot of R. Arthritis patients have had good experience with, I'm not aware of it causing weight gain though. you can always do light leg extensions and warmup sets pre working sets - I usually do 3-4 warmup sets before all of my working squat sets. Knee sleeves can also help as well

KANGOOJUMPS

I LOVE THEM!

taso42

Your form may have been off. While they look straightforward, Squats are a rather technical exercise and a fair amount of learning and practice must be established before going heavy.

BusyRaeNOTBusty

One problem with *kitten* to grass squats is "butt wink". For a lot of us, in order to go that low, your butt rounds under, and your lower back rounds up. This is bad. I only go as deep as I can before butt wink starts, which is fine as long as you go just past parallel.

But yes, squat form is VERY hard to master. You need to go really slow on the progression and be very careful that your form doesn't falter in the name of higher weights.

DopeItUp

Post video of your form, I'm guessing it must have been way off to hurt your knees. My knees have dramatically improved since I started squatting.

bcattoes

I have not had that experience because I never do deep squats. But the reason I don't do them is fear of what you describe. The higher squats do the job just fine, so I see no reason to risk it.

elprincipito

i stopped doing atg and just parallel after trainer said it's better for your knees to just go parallel...i donno though...

Unknown

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NobodyInParticular

Your knees should never go more forward than your toes. If that happens, that's when pain follows.

neandermagnon

hmm perhaps i was doing something wrong then. :sad:

it's vitally important that your knees don't go further forward than your toes. I'm fine doing ATG squats, only ever do them that way (just going to parallel doesn't feel like i'm doing them properly.... but of course every exercise has its uses, even partial squats) but when I tried pistol squats, they hurt my knees, because in order to maintain my balance, my knees ended up going further forward than my toes. So I haven't done them again. I'll have to see if i can figure out another way to do them.

that could be the problem.

I also find that I need to have quite a wide stance in order to get down low enough without either overbalancing (not fun with a heavy barbell on your shoulders LOL) or having my knees go in front of my toes or my back not staying straight. the way I do squats, my feet are a bit wider than shoulder width apart, and I have wide shoulders.

AmazonRDH

i don't know anything about the squats, they sound painful, LOL, but i get patellar tendonitis when i run, the glucosamine has actually helped, i also brace that knee and wear a knee strap on it. the strap doesnt seem to do much but the brace sure does!

DavPul

hmm perhaps i was doing something wrong then. :sad:

i'm glad we agree. check your form before trying again. running hurts my knees. basketball and football hurt my knees. long airplane rides hurt my knees.

squats have never hurt my knees

LishieFruit89

I agree. Squats have actually HELPED my knee problems.

And... it's glucosamine, silly girl.

:laugh:

QFT