What with all the Dairy Hate?

jennylynn84

Holy Cow!!!

Pick an activity or a food or a location and I can go on-line and find a study that explains why you should avoid it. Or why you can't live without it.

And if you skew the facts just right Everything from Tobacco, to Alcohol, to Milk, to Fast Food to Seafood, to Girl Scout Cookies is the number one cause of:

Pick One: Obesity, Cancer, Arthritis, apathy to:

Pick one: Teenagers, Women, Democrats, Catholics, NRA members.

I feel better now. Enjoy your weekend.

I totally agree.

There is a study out there for almost everything proving that it causes cancer. In the end, I say if we knew EXACTLY what caused cancer, we could cure it. So whatever.

I drink milk. 1%. I also eat yogurt and part skim cheeses. I love dairy.

As for lactose intolerance, originally the human state was to develop lactose intolerance past a certain age. But as cultured developed their diets to include cheese, milk, etc. they became less so over time. This is why more Asians are lactose intolerant supposedly - their culture does not incorporate as much dairy as others.

But anywho - that's why lactose intolerance is really common. I get a little sick if I have too much dairy too.

But personally I'm all about drinking my milk. I don't have too much and I make sure to include it in my calories, but I will not do soy. For one, I don't really like it. Secondly, I eat some soy products already and I don't want to start excessing in my soy consumption because of the estrogen problems associated with over consuming it.

For me it comes down to the same thing it always comes down to - moderation. If you drink too much milk it's fattening and can make you feel gross. If you drink too much soy it can make you sick from estrogren, excesses of anything is bad, but a glass or two of milk a day is doable.

Of course, that does not apply for people with serious allergies and intolerances.

Also, if you are worried about the rGBH or whatever - find a dairy producer that does not include it and buy that. Organic stores will have it. Or, for example, a local producer in my hometown does not use it either. There are ways to get it natural without the chemicals and such. Reading about all the pus I'm going to start making sure I buy from my local producer. Just.... gross.

Just my 2 cents.

Barneystinson

Well, your ability to digest dairy also depends highly on your ethnicity.

See here for a neat-o chart from UC Davis:

http://nutrigenomics.ucdavis.edu/nutrigenomics/index.cfm?objectid=968814F6-65B3-C1E7-0C7007B71CC9959A

If you're of Northern European descent (which I coincidentally am) there's a good chance (95%) you're not lactose intolerant. If you're from Southeast Asia (excluding India), there's a very high chance (98%) you're lactose intolerant. This is a pretty fascinating little piece that describes a genetic factor that allows for proper digestion of milk. So, were we ALWAYS meant to drink milk? No. Genetic expression allowed many to adapt to proper dairy consumption.

HealthyChanges2010

just bookmarking to read this when time allows:drinker: :flowerforyou:
Edit: wanted to say thank you for all the research links you shared and the time you took to do it, haven't had time to look them all up but I do agree with milk being more appropriate for calves etc. same as breast milk for babies etc.

Regarding cheese, I have actually read quite a bit recently on cheese addictions so when folks say, they can't give up their cheeses some really can't. lol Cheese has something similar to the feeling chocolate gives us, the same brain center that allows us to feel good when we eat a certain food. Cheese is one of them...most likely why many feel they'd 'die' without cheese.

I found a lot of information about dairy products. None of this is my wording, but I believe most of it to be true as I've done other "investigation" over the past year and a half on why dairy isn't good. With that being said, I LOVE cheese! I think I'm obsessed. lol My dad used to call me his little rat because I ate cheese all the time and I still do. Is it healthy for me? No.

Here are some other links as well proving dairy isn't all that healthy.

http://nutritiondiva.quickanddirtytips.com/is-milk-bad.aspx
http://www.vivavegie.org/vvi/vva/vvi23/milkpcrm.html


AGAIN, below isn't my wording.
______________________________________________________________________________________________
Yes... milk is Mother Nature's "perfect food" ...for a calf... until it is weaned.

Everything you know about cow's milk and dairy is probably part of a Dairy industry MYTH.

Cow's milk is an unhealthy fluid from diseased animals that contains a wide range of dangerous and disease-causing substances that have a cumulative negative effect on all who consume it.

MILK'S BASIC CONTENTS

*ALL* cow's milk (regular and 'organic') has 59 active hormones, scores of allergens, fat and cholesterol.

Most cow's milk has measurable quantities of herbicides, pesticides, dioxins (up to 200 times the safe levels), up to 52 powerful antibiotics (perhaps 53, with LS-50), blood, pus, feces, bacteria and viruses. (Cow's milk can have traces of anything the cow ate... including such things as radioactive fallout from nuke testing ... (the 50's strontium-90 problem).

LEADING CAUSES OF DEATH IN AMERICA
http://webapp.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/leadc… (1998)

Rank Total Description

1 724,859 Heart Disease (think fats/cholesterol: meat/dairy)
2 541,532 Malignant Neoplasms (cancer: think toxins/milk/dairy)
2a 250,000 Medical system (drugs/etc. think ignorance/incompetence)
3 158,448 Cerebro-vascular (think meat milk and dairy)
4 112,584 Bronchitis Emphysema Asthma (think toxins/milk/dairy)
5 97,835 Unintentional Injuries and Adverse Effects
6 91,871 Pneumonia & Influenza (think weak immune systems and
mucus)
7 64,751 Diabetes (think milk/dairy)
7a 40,000+ Highway slaughter (men, women and children)
8 30,575 Suicide (think behavioral problems)
9 26,182 Nephritis (Bright's disease: inflammation of the
kidneys)
10 25,192 Liver Disease (think alcohol and other toxins)

(2a and 7a were added for completeness)

(note: Number 13 on the CDC list is -18,272 Homicide & Legal Intervention-. It is curious that the CDC would readily list law enforcement and homicides... and not the 250,000 deaths caused by the medical system!)

CANCER FUEL

Of those 59 hormones one is a powerful GROWTH hormone called Insulin- like Growth Factor ONE (IGF-1). By a freak of nature it is identical in cows and humans. Consider this hormone to be a "fuel cell" for any cancer... (the medical world says IGF-1 is a key factor in the rapid growth and proliferation of breast, prostate and colon cancers, and we suspect that most likely it will be found to promote ALL cancers).

IGF-1 is a normal part of ALL milk... the newborn is SUPPOSED to grow quickly! What makes the 50% of obese American consumers think they need MORE growth? Consumers don't think anything about it because they do not have a clue to the problem... nor do most of our doctors.

(See http://www.notmilk.com/igf1time.txt for a time line)

QUANTITY

Each bite of hard cheese has TEN TIMES whatever was in that sip of milk... because it takes ten pounds of milk to make one pound of cheese. Each bite of ice cream has 12 times ... and every swipe of butter 21 times whatever is contained in the fat molecules in a sip of milk.

MONSANTO AND rbGH (Posilac)

Monsanto Chemical Co., maker of fine poisons such as DDT, agent orange, Roundup and more... spent around half a billion dollars inventing a shot to inject into cows... to force a cow to produce MORE milk (for an already glutted taxpayer subsidized market).

Unfortunately, they created *FIVE* errors in their Frankenstein Posilac (rbGH) shot that direly affected all test animals... but that important report (Richard, Odaglia & Deslex, 1989) has been hidden from everyone under Clinton's Trade Secrets act. The Canadians read enough of this report (before it was stolen) to reject rbGH for their country.

Monsanto's Posilac creates additional IGF-1 in milk: up to 80% more.

The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) insists that IGF-1 is destroyed in the stomach. If that were true, the FDA has proven that breast feeding cannot work. Common sense says their "finding" is ridiculous because this growth factor DOES make the baby calf grow (rapidly, as mother natured intended). Visit the Dairy Education Board at http://www.notmilk.com/deb/100399.html to review a DAIRY study that confirms what the FDA has lied about this for years.

IGF-1 INCREASES

This study involved two groups. One group consuming 12 ounces of milk a day and the other consuming the USDA recommended allowance of 24 ounces (three cups). This report notes that the participants consuming 12 ounces more milk per day... HAD A 10% RISE IN IGF-1 IN THEIR BLOOD SERUM! Now, consider that PER DAY, from ALL sources, the typical milk/dairy consumer ingests approximately 39% of daily diet from dairy... and that 10% increase becomes the "tip of the iceberg". We have NO idea of the non-dairy versus full-dairy difference but considering cancer rates... it has to be significant.

FAT

Whole milk 49% of the calories are from fat.
"2%" milk 35% of the calories are from fat.
Cheddar cheese 74% of the calories are from fat.
Butter 100% of the calories are from fat.

Most folks suspect that butter is all fat. Most folks have no concept of the just how much fat is in the rest of milk and dairy. Perhaps the 54% of Americans who are obese need to comprehend that milk, ice cream, cheeses, yogurts, and all the OTHER products that use milk derivatives (casein, whey, lactose, colostrum) are most likely a significant cause for their weight and health problem.

CALCIUM

Calcium? Where do the COWS get calcium for their big bones? Yes... from plants! The calcium they consume from plants has a large amount of magnesium... necessary for the body to absorb and USE the calcium.

The calcium in cow's milk is basically useless because it has insufficient magnesium content (those nations with the highest amount of milk/dairy consumption also have the highest rates of osteoporosis. Proof? How about a controlled study of 78,000 nurses over a period of 12 years?

Read more about it at:

http://www.notmilk.com/deb/030799.html Article on the 78,000 nurse study
http://www.notmilk.com/deb/092098.html CALCIUM AND BONE DISEASE
http://www.notmilk.com/badbones.html WHO GETS BONE DISEASE?
http://www.notmilk.com/bonehead.txt CRIPPLING BONEHEADS
http://www.notmilk.com/calcium/index.htm… Consolidated info

Cows milk has three times the calcium as does human breast milk. No matter, neither are very usable because in order to be absorbed and used their MUST be an equal quantity of MAGNESIUM (as exists in the greens that cows eat to get all the calcium they need for their big bones). Milk has only enough magnesium to absorb around 11% (33mg per cup) of calcium.

Per the USDA 8 ounces (one cup) of cows milk contains:

Calcium, Ca mg 291.336
Magnesium, Mg mg 32.794

The USDA recommends 1200mg of calcium per day. The USDA recommended three cups of milk a day only have 900mg of calcium. Some argue that only 1/3 of the magnesium is necessary. Mother nature seems to suggest it should be one to one. If the ratio for proper absorption were 1/3 magnesium to one calcium then no more than 300mg of that 900mg of calcium is usable. If, in fact, it is a one to one ratio... only 98.38mg of calcium is usable.

It is not a matter of how much calcium one ingests... but how much one does not lose.

PROTEIN

Milk can be thought of as "liquid meat" because of its high protein content which, in concert with other proteins, may actually LEACH calcium from the body. Countries that consume high protein diets (meat, milk and dairy) have the highest rates of osteoporosis.

THE 'WHOLESOME' PROTEIN MYTH

87% of milk is water. That makes it VERY expensive water.

Broken down into its basic groups... WHOLE MILK is:

WATER FAT CASEIN OTHER PROTEIN
87% 3.25% 4% 1% 4.75

(note: that is 3.25% "milkfat" which includes the 87% water.)

80% of the protein in milk is casein. Casein is a powerful binder... a
polymer used to make plastics... and a glue that is better used to make
sturdy furniture or hold beer bottle labels in place. It is in
thousands of processed foods as a binder... as "something" caseinate.

Casein is a powerful allergen... a histamine that creates lots of
mucus. The only medicine in Olympic athlete Flo-Jo's body was Benedryl,
a power antihistamine she took to combat her last meal... pizza.
For the whole Flo-Jo story:

http://www.notmilk.com/deb/092198.html,
http://www.notmilk.com/deb/111598.html and
http://www.notmilk.com/deb/112398.html for the whole story.

BACTERIA

Cow's milk is allowed to have feces in it. This is a major source for bacteria. Milk is typically pasteurized more than once before it gets to your table... each time for only 15 seconds at 162 degrees Fahrenheit.

To sanitize water one is told to boil it (212 degrees F) for several minutes. That is a tremendous disparity, isn't it!

Keep in mind that at room temperature the number of bacteria in milk DOUBLE around every 20 minutes. No wonder milk turns rotten very quickly.

PUS

ONE cubic centimeter (cc) of commercial cow's milk is allowed to have up to 750,000 somatic cells (common name is "PUS") and 20,000 live bacteria... before it is kept off the market.

That amounts to a whopping 20 million live squiggly bacteria and up to 750 MILLION pus cells per liter (bit more than a quart).

1 cup = 236.5882cc 177,441,150 pus cells ~ 4,731,600 bacteria
24 oz (3 glasses) = 532,323,450 pus cells ~ 14,220,000 bacteria
(the "recommended" daily intake)

The EU and the Canadians allow for a less "tasty" 400,000,000 pus cells per liter.

Typically these levels are lower... but they COULD reach these levels and still get to YOUR table.

CHOLESTEROL

The cholesterol content of those three glasses of milk is equal to what one would get from 53 slices of bacon. Do you know of any doctor who recommends that much bacon per day?

KOSHER

Is cow's milk and dairy "Kosher"? Consider this:

"D-3 always is derived from an animal. The sunlight reaction that converts 7-dehydrocholesterol to vitamin D-3 is a 'pure' chemical reaction that occurs in your skin in certain cells."

"The provitamin known as 7-dehydrocholesterol is extracted and isolated from the skins of mammals and purified." (Marian Herbert of the Vitamin D Workshop U of C)

Vitamin D-3 can come from four different sources:

Pig skin, sheep skin, raw fish liver, and pig brains. Most of the time, Vitamin D-3 is extracted from pig skin and sold to dairy processors.

Short answer to "is milk kosher" - probably not.

OTHER 'STUFF'

Fat and cholesterol. Lots of it. Per the dairy influenced USDA "food pyramid" all milk, dairy and meats should represent no more than 8% of the diet. Statistically, by volume of sales in a nation of 281 million Americans, it works out to almost 40% of the diet for MILK AND DAIRY.. without the meat.

The milk of each of the over 4,700 mammals on earth is formulated specifically for that species. There are special lactoferrins and immunoglobulins (cow specific immunizing stuff) that in humans serve as allergens.

LEUKEMIA

According to Hoards Dairyman (Volume 147, number 4)... 89% of America's dairy herds have the leukemia virus. (more at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/notmilk/me…

DIABETES

The protein lactalbumin, has been identified as a key factor in diabetes (and a major reason for NOT giving cows milk to infants).

CROHN'S DISEASE

Mycobacterium paratuberculosis causes a bovine disease called "Johne's."

Cows diagnosed with Johne's Disease have diarrhea, and heavy fecal shedding of bacteria. This bacteria becomes cultured in milk, and is not destroyed by pasteurization. Occasionally, the milk-borne bacteria will begin to grow in the human host, and the results are irritable bowel syndrome and Crohn's Disease.

MAD COW DISEASE

There may also be prions (pronounced PREons) in the milk and meat. This is crystalline substance that acts like a virus... with an "incubation" period of from 5 to 30 years. The end result is MAD COW DISEASE!

HOMOGENIZATION

Large fat molecules cannot get through the intestinal wall into the bloodstream. The cream no longer rises... because homogenization breaks up those large molecules into small ones that DO get into the bloodstream! This becomes an expressway for any fat-borne toxins (lead, dioxin's, etc.) into your (otherwise) most protected organs.

CUMULATIVE EFFECTS

How does this impact humans who consume cow's milk and dairy? Obesity (over 50% of Americans and rising), heart disease, cancer, allergies, digestive problems, diabetes, asthma, desensitization to antibiotics, behavioral problems, and the constant ingestion of dioxin's, herbicides, pesticides (and anything else the cow eats that is not good for any critter), that winds up getting stored in HUMAN fat... is not healthy by any measure.

Those who resist believing the truth should understand that MOST of the world's population CANNOT tolerate the lactose in cow's milk. Up to 95% of the black population, around 53% of the Hispanics, etc.) So much for cow's milk being "natures perfect food" for humans! Mother nature knows better.

Common sense question: Where was this massive "milk is a must" before refrigeration, pasteurization and mass transportation? Back when cows gave only 1-4 pounds a day it was quickly made into BUTTER and cheese! Now that those same cows have been tweaked and shot-up with Posilac to produce up to 55 or more pounds of milk per day... almost all year long... it is suddenly (after many thousands of years) a daily "staple". NOT!

POLLUTION

There are around 9.2 million dairy cows in the United states. Each dairy cow ingests around 330 pounds of feed (perhaps 50 pounds) and water (around 280 pounds or 33 gallons) per day. Allowing for the best dairy production of 55 pounds of milk per day (over ten times what mother nature designed the cow to produce) that means that what remains becomes "slurry".

That means around 275 pound of urine and feces per day... per cow, for a daily total of 2.53 BILLION pounds of pollution. Per year... that amounts to around 923 billion pounds of UNTREATED pollution entering our streams, rivers, lakes... and drinking water systems.

Cows are hot-blooded mammals. Like all other mammals they pass gas. Somewhat like elephants their compartmented digestive system is rather inefficient... which leads to the creation of MORE gas. During a Discovery Channel documentary on elephants a parting quip was that the average adult elephant passes enough methane gas per day to run a car about 20 miles.

Cows are not much better. The English New Scientist (page 5 -31.8.96) mentions that cattle produce around 48 kilograms (105 pounds) of methane each per year and that more bubbles out of the animals' manure. Dairy cows eat more because they produce milk. With 9.2 million dairy cows times a minimum of 100 pounds of methane gas per year... that amounts almost a billion pounds of methane gas released into the atmosphere each year. With around 100 million beef cattle... pigs, sheep, and other "factory farmed" animals it should not be difficult to fathom the extent of this problem.

This means that "Beef is a greenhouse-intensive food" and a major cause of global warming (with dairy a significant part of the problem).

Another major point is:

"Milk is a very strong pollutant: it is about 400 times more polluting than untreated sewage. To put it another way, 1,000 gallons of milk has the same polluting potential as the untreated sewage from a town of 7,000 people." Morlais Owen. Chief Scientist for Welsh Water. North Wales Weekly News. 24.3.88.

"It's not natural for humans to drink cow's milk. Humans milk is for humans. Cow's milk is for calves. You have no more need of cow's milk than you do rats milk, horses milk or elephant's milk. Cow's milk is a high fat fluid exquisitely designed to turn a 65 lb baby calf into a 400 lb cow. That's what cow's milk is for!" --Dr Michael Klaper MD

"I no longer recommend dairy products after the age of 2 years. Other calcium sources offer many advantages that dairy products do not have." --Dr. Benjamin Spock
Source(s):
http://www.rense.com/general26/truth.htm

msarro

Well, your ability to digest dairy also depends highly on your ethnicity.

See here for a neat-o chart from UC Davis:

http://nutrigenomics.ucdavis.edu/nutrigenomics/index.cfm?objectid=968814F6-65B3-C1E7-0C7007B71CC9959A

If you're of Northern European descent (which I coincidentally am) there's a good chance (95%) you're not lactose intolerant. If you're from Southeast Asia (excluding India), there's a very high chance (98%) you're lactose intolerant. This is a pretty fascinating little piece that describes a genetic factor that allows for proper digestion of milk. So, were we ALWAYS meant to drink milk? No. Genetic expression allowed many to adapt to proper dairy consumption.

Interesting, I wonder if thats why most of my Filipino friends are lactose intolerant.

imagymrat

Holy Cow!!!

Pick an activity or a food or a location and I can go on-line and find a study that explains why you should avoid it. Or why you can't live without it.

And if you skew the facts just right Everything from Tobacco, to Alcohol, to Milk, to Fast Food to Seafood, to Girl Scout Cookies is the number one cause of:

Pick One: Obesity, Cancer, Arthritis, apathy to:

Pick one: Teenagers, Women, Democrats, Catholics, NRA members.

I feel better now. Enjoy your weekend.

lol...so very true. I find it funny that people will eat Doritos, easter cream eggs, cool whip and oreos, along with other empty calorie foods, without a debate..yet a glass of milk, which, is a million times healthier then any of that crap I just listed and people get on a rampage!

msarro

Holy Cow!!!

Pick an activity or a food or a location and I can go on-line and find a study that explains why you should avoid it. Or why you can't live without it.

And if you skew the facts just right Everything from Tobacco, to Alcohol, to Milk, to Fast Food to Seafood, to Girl Scout Cookies is the number one cause of:

Pick One: Obesity, Cancer, Arthritis, apathy to:

Pick one: Teenagers, Women, Democrats, Catholics, NRA members.

I feel better now. Enjoy your weekend.

lol...so very true. I find it funny that people will eat Doritos, easter cream eggs, cool whip and oreos, along with other empty calorie foods, without a debate..yet a glass of milk, which, is a million times healthier then any of that crap I just listed and people get on a rampage!

At the Philly food festival there was actually a debate about that. Local schools were talking about banning whole milk because 'it contains the same amount of fat as 2 strips of bacon' or some other nonsense. Yet they were perfectly happy installing soda machines.

FrenchMob

I eat lots of dairy...in any given day I'll have a cup of 1% milk, 2 cups of 2% cottage cheese, and approx. 5-6 cups of fat free yogurt.

Hey, I also eat red meat at least twice a week, and a large bag of popcorn at the theater once a week, and I still lost 40 lbs in the last 4 months. Imagine that!

Nelski

I'd rather be fluffy for the rest of my life, and have my dairy products, than to give them up and be skinny. Nuff said!

What she said ^

LittleSpy

Holy Cow!!!

Pick an activity or a food or a location and I can go on-line and find a study that explains why you should avoid it. Or why you can't live without it.

And if you skew the facts just right Everything from Tobacco, to Alcohol, to Milk, to Fast Food to Seafood, to Girl Scout Cookies is the number one cause of:

Pick One: Obesity, Cancer, Arthritis, apathy to:

Pick one: Teenagers, Women, Democrats, Catholics, NRA members.

I feel better now. Enjoy your weekend.

I couldn't have said it better.

Most everything is bad for us in some way. Most everything is good for us in some way. I've spent the last couple years of my pouring through information on nutrition & a healthy diet trying to make the best decisions based on what is "good" and "bad" for myself and my pets (I thoroughly researched my dogs' diet before I woke up enough to research my own :laugh:).

So, after all the research I've come to the conclusion that there is a pro and a con to everything and I have to make decisions based on what is important to me. Sometimes instant gratification wins. Sometimes long term gratification wins. Sometimes my immediate mental health is a concern. Sometimes my long term physical health is my concern. :laugh:
I find a lot of times, to maintain my present mental health, I have to do something that may be harmful to my long term physical health (like enjoy an alcoholic beverage or a piece of chocolate).
That is to say, instead of completely obsessing over what is the 100% most healthy thing I could do 100% of the time, I've decided to start living and making the best choices I can while enjoying myself at the same time. I just can't worry about it so much anymore. The important thing is that I'm doing so much better now than I've ever done before. And I'm sure it will get even better with time. I eat both dairy and grains. Do I think I NEED them to live (or even thrive)? Not at all. Do I like to eat them? YEP! :laugh:

ivykivy

Actually women do sell their breast milk. Found this out from a friend who had a child and had some of hers stock piled in the freezer. Imagine that.:noway:

You are right we all have to do what is right for us. I am one of those who have practically cut out grain. My endocrinologist who is a Professor at Emory University and has been for the past 25 years told me whole grains were necessary. I ignored her and am doing great without them. I got my mom and aunt to finally ditch the bread and their blood sugar issues have improved. She is also a dairy proponent. He is african and I am african american and neither of us have problems with lactose intolerance.

I didn't mean for this to be a debate just pointing out a few things. I know about studies. I did one in undergraduate where I injected mice with estrogen and found there was no change in uterine tissues. Of course it was a short term study and not long term.

I think it all boils down to calcium is necessary. It is usually easier to get people to eat cheese and drink milk than it is to get people to eat beans, or broccoli or spinach in the appropriate amounts. However you choose to get your calcium just get it.

Have a great day.

I would like to point out that beans especially have a very low absorption rate compared to milk. While I understand people may have allergies cow isn't the only animal that produces milk. You mentioned goat and sheep.

It has been proven time and again that animal products whether it be for protein, calcium, omega-3, B-vitamins etc are better absorbed by the human body than plant products.

I'm only giving examples of what the OP asked, "What with all the dairy hate?" I didn't say anything about goat or sheep either. I didn't say anything about beans either. And yes there are studies that show that animal products are better absorbed, but there is also evidence to the contrary. Matter of fact, my endocrinologist who is a meat and cheese lover, admits that vegans tend to live longer and have less disease throughout their lifetime. He was a researcher and professor at U of M for 15 years. He directly relates my enormous turn around to going vegan. Does that mean you should go vegan? Not unless you want to. There are benefits, huge benefits when done properly. But its not for everyone.

My point is just what I said. And like some others have said. We need to look at the evidence, both sides, and decide what is best for us. Just before you adhere to a study that you want to agree with, find out who paid for and published the study. Alot of those meat, poultry, dairy and pork studies were sponsered by the industry who profits from you eating the product. I have health reasons for eating the way I do, I don't expect anyone to follow suit just because its better for me. But my experience has really opened my eyes to so called "research".

I totally agree with you. Cow's milk is produced by cows that were pregnant and need to feed their calves, same thing with women after they have babies. They both produce milk to feed their young. That's why they produce milk in the first place. I don't see women selling their breast milk to make profits off of other people. Why should cows or other animals have to be treated badly to do that? Also, animal calcium DEPLETES humans' bodies from calcium. The studies that have been done that say you need calcium from milk are from the DAIRY INDUSTRIES so you can't trust their word. Seriously, what retailer will tell you their product is bad and not buy it? None.

BUT I do have to admit that I'm a cheese addict. I love the stuff and always have some in my fridge. I try to stay away from it though because I know it's unhealthy just like meat.

leavinglasvegas

Actually women do sell their breast milk. Found this out from a friend who had a child and had some of hers stock piled in the freezer. Imagine that.:noway:

You are right we all have to do what is right for us. I am one of those who have practically cut out grain. My endocrinologist who is a Professor at Emory University and has been for the past 25 years told me whole grains were necessary. I ignored her and am doing great without them. I got my mom and aunt to finally ditch the bread and their blood sugar issues have improved. She is also a dairy proponent. He is african and I am african american and neither of us have problems with lactose intolerance.

I didn't mean for this to be a debate just pointing out a few things. I know about studies. I did one in undergraduate where I injected mice with estrogen and found there was no change in uterine tissues. Of course it was a short term study and not long term.

I think it all boils down to calcium is necessary. It is usually easier to get people to eat cheese and drink milk than it is to get people to eat beans, or broccoli or spinach in the appropriate amounts. However you choose to get your calcium just get it.

Have a great day.

I've heard of women selling breast milk as well. I think some women do it for others who cannot produce milk for their babies.

Sorry if I sounded debatable, lol. I did not intend to. I think some of the posts on here were getting overly defensive, so I may have responded accordingly, but not meant to be directly at you.

The grain debate as well as the dairy debate have intrugued my intrest lately. Mainly because I was on the "don't touch my cheese or bread" side of things then was diagnosed as allergic. It really opened my mind to see the other side. (I had no choice) Its funny how peopl react to people who eat differently. I say I'm a vegan, and people automatically defend hunting, hamburgers, and cheese, lol:laugh: But it does go both ways. Some vegans scare the crap out of me!

As long as we are getting the proper nutrition for ourselves, I think its appropriate to agree to disagree. When people see what I eat, they freak out. But my nutrition is monitored monthly and I'm absolutely perfect. Unless I carry around my bloodwork everywhere I go, nobody believes me. Some people drink milk, I eat unhuman amounts of spinach and broccoli:laugh: I like it! But thats just me.

Anyway, Happy Friday!

jennylynn84

Actually women do sell their breast milk. Found this out from a friend who had a child and had some of hers stock piled in the freezer. Imagine that.:noway:

You are right we all have to do what is right for us. I am one of those who have practically cut out grain. My endocrinologist who is a Professor at Emory University and has been for the past 25 years told me whole grains were necessary. I ignored her and am doing great without them. I got my mom and aunt to finally ditch the bread and their blood sugar issues have improved. She is also a dairy proponent. He is african and I am african american and neither of us have problems with lactose intolerance.

I didn't mean for this to be a debate just pointing out a few things. I know about studies. I did one in undergraduate where I injected mice with estrogen and found there was no change in uterine tissues. Of course it was a short term study and not long term.

I think it all boils down to calcium is necessary. It is usually easier to get people to eat cheese and drink milk than it is to get people to eat beans, or broccoli or spinach in the appropriate amounts. However you choose to get your calcium just get it.

Have a great day.

I've heard of women selling breast milk as well. I think some women do it for others who cannot produce milk for their babies.

Sorry if I sounded debatable, lol. I did not intend to. I think some of the posts on here were getting overly defensive, so I may have responded accordingly, but not meant to be directly at you.

The grain debate as well as the dairy debate have intrugued my intrest lately. Mainly because I was on the "don't touch my cheese or bread" side of things then was diagnosed as allergic. It really opened my mind to see the other side. (I had no choice) Its funny how peopl react to people who eat differently. I say I'm a vegan, and people automatically defend hunting, hamburgers, and cheese, lol:laugh: But it does go both ways. Some vegans scare the crap out of me!

As long as we are getting the proper nutrition for ourselves, I think its appropriate to agree to disagree. When people see what I eat, they freak out. But my nutrition is monitored monthly and I'm absolutely perfect. Unless I carry around my bloodwork everywhere I go, nobody believes me. Some people drink milk, I eat unhuman amounts of spinach and broccoli:laugh: I like it! But thats just me.

Anyway, Happy Friday!

I agree, Wannabe, I feel this way as well, as far as agreeing and disagreeing and people doing what is right for them.

Personally, I'm an omnivore. Some vegans I cannot stand to be around, because they are desperate to convert you even if you don't think it's right for you. Some meat-eaters I'm embarrassed to be with my vegetarian/vegan friends with, because they are a-holes about how necessary meat is in their opinion. There are extremists on both ends who just try to make the other side feel like crud. It's as bad as talking politics!

You're right, in the end it's just important that everyone is giving their body the proper nutrients. People enjoy talking about how malnutritioned you can be as a vegan. As if people that eat meat can't be malnutritioned because of the amount of food they eat, amount of veg they don't eat, etc.

It's stupid to assume that what is necessary for one person is right for all. So if you're a person that can get up and have milk on their cereal and put cheese on their sandwich, go for it. If you have a total cheese obsession so you have to stay away with it or eat a ton, then avoid it. If you just think it's gross or if you're allergic, then that's cool too. Whatever.

And of course before doing anything extreme with your diet you should consult a dietician or physician. (That everyone will call a quack when you say your diet is working and your bloodwork is great, lol.)

leavinglasvegas

Personally, I'm an omnivore. Some vegans I cannot stand to be around, because they are desperate to convert you even if you don't think it's right for you. Some meat-eaters I'm embarrassed to be with my vegetarian/vegan friends with, because they are a-holes about how necessary meat is in their opinion. There are extremists on both ends who just try to make the other side feel like crud. It's as bad as talking politics!

So true. My mom used to tell me there are 3 things you just don't discuss in public, religion, politics, and abortion. I think nowadays its safe to add diet and even enviroment and healthcare to that list!

aippolito1

I don't get the dairy hatred either!!!! Anytime I've been good about incorporating milk, yogurt AND cheese everyday, I've lost weight. I think it really helps. I drink 2% and try not to drink more than 8 oz. and if I'm congested or sick, I don't drink it (as I've always heard it makes your mucus worse - as one poster said). But that's all I do to "limit" it.

whyflysouth

Wow! This has been my most replied to post yet. I didn't realize how much people had to say about it. It's good to read about how many perspectives there are.

I guess I'd summarize it as folks either:

1. Like milk, cheese, etc it tastes good so I'm not giving it up for nothin'
2. Milk has got hormones, bacteria, pus, we aren't made to drink it naturally, it's the spawn of the devil and source of all evil.
3. I'm allergic/lactose intolerant.
4. It's good for you, got calcium, not nearly as bad as all the processed carbs stuff pushed on us daily.

So... aside from the allergies/lactose intolerance, I really don't see anything really bad about it. Of course if you drink a gallon of whole milk daily and 8oz blocks of muenster cheese as hourly snacks you're gonna kill yourself, but I really haven't found a strong argument for full abstinence from dairy. If the bacteria/pus/hormones worry you, well you probably have to be a strict vegan to avoid those things, and then you'll end up supplementing with something else that was processed unnaturally in order to get your protein anyways - regardless that's not really my concern, my concern is for weight-loss, the question really being, "How does Dairy supposedly make you fat?"

Particularly it's Tony Horton's rant about you should avoid all processed carbs (makes sense to me), avoid all red meat (makes sense, sure), and avoid all dairy (wha??).

jennylynn84

my concern is for weight-loss, the question really being, "How does Dairy supposedly make you fat?"

It doesn't. lol. We all got out on tangents, but in short, it doesn't make you fat all by its lonesome if you eat/drink it in moderation. If I've been able to slowly pick away at my stock of girl scout cookies since January and lose 35 pounds, then milk sure isn't going to stop my weight loss, lol!

leavinglasvegas

Wow! This has been my most replied to post yet. I didn't realize how much people had to say about it. It's good to read about how many perspectives there are.

I guess I'd summarize it as folks either:

1. Like milk, cheese, etc it tastes good so I'm not giving it up for nothin'
2. Milk has got hormones, bacteria, pus, we aren't made to drink it naturally, it's the spawn of the devil and source of all evil.
3. I'm allergic/lactose intolerant.
4. It's good for you, got calcium, not nearly as bad as all the processed carbs stuff pushed on us daily.

So... aside from the allergies/lactose intolerance, I really don't see anything really bad about it. Of course if you drink a gallon of whole milk daily and 8oz blocks of muenster cheese as hourly snacks you're gonna kill yourself, but I really haven't found a strong argument for full abstinence from dairy. If the bacteria/pus/hormones worry you, well you probably have to be a strict vegan to avoid those things, and then you'll end up supplementing with something else that was processed unnaturally in order to get your protein anyways - regardless that's not really my concern, my concern is for weight-loss, the question really being, "How does Dairy supposedly make you fat?"

Particularly it's Tony Horton's rant about you should avoid all processed carbs (makes sense to me), avoid all red meat (makes sense, sure), and avoid all dairy (wha??).

I see your point. I think that in order to consume dairy regularly, people opt for the low fat versions, which are processed to change them from the natural state. I would agree that its better to eat the whole fat stuff, just less of it. I think its the saturated fat content and lack of fiber that gets most people developing and aversion to it. I think that is where Tony is coming from. There are tons of equivelants that are natural and lower in fat, higher in fiber. One thing I read said simply, why drink milk that has to be processed to be healthy enough when you just can eat almonds on a leafy green salad? I actually don't eat anything that is processed to get my calcium or protien. Beans, nuts, legumes, greens.... Its a matter of what you want to do. If you want to get off dairy, you can. If not, you can still maintain health.

metalpalace

I eat a lot of dairy to. I say to each their own but a lot of people don't learn for themselves and just subscribe to the idea that sounds more attractive to them with a lot of blind faith. Bring on the cheese! Milk! Ice Cream! All natural of course

Barneystinson

Holy Cow!!!

Pick an activity or a food or a location and I can go on-line and find a study that explains why you should avoid it. Or why you can't live without it.

And if you skew the facts just right Everything from Tobacco, to Alcohol, to Milk, to Fast Food to Seafood, to Girl Scout Cookies is the number one cause of:

Pick One: Obesity, Cancer, Arthritis, apathy to:

Pick one: Teenagers, Women, Democrats, Catholics, NRA members.

I feel better now. Enjoy your weekend.

lol...so very true. I find it funny that people will eat Doritos, easter cream eggs, cool whip and oreos, along with other empty calorie foods, without a debate..yet a glass of milk, which, is a million times healthier then any of that crap I just listed and people get on a rampage!

At the Philly food festival there was actually a debate about that. Local schools were talking about banning whole milk because 'it contains the same amount of fat as 2 strips of bacon' or some other nonsense. Yet they were perfectly happy installing soda machines.

Yeah, but funny enough they'll keep serving the kiddies reduced fat CHOCOLATE milk because ZOMG! It's low fat! (But nevermind it has 20 grams of sugar per serving...)

Gah....

lizbeth787

I would love to have dairy - however, I am lactose intolerant. Lactose is very difficult for my body to digest (as I am gluten and corn intolerant as well) and is a natural inflammatory. My body does not react well to it... what I would give for a nice piece of stinky cheese!!!!!!!!!!!!!