Intuitive Eating or Calorie Counting

RunningTowardsFit

Hi friends,
I am just looking for some opinions. I have finished reading the book titled, "Intuitive Eating," and am in the process of still counting calories, etc. One of the main points in the book is to eat what you are hungry for. Here is where one of my questions lies... 1) do you eat what you want if it fits into your calories but NOT your macros... as in, if you go over fiber or fat?

2) do you intuitive eat and log the calories? Or just count calories? Opinions on calorie counting vs. intuitive eating?

Thanks!

SideSteel

I think this is actually a good question even though you may get some pretty strong rebuttals given that we're in a community of calorie counting.

First of all I've tried doing both counting and intuitive eating. I have my own theories about this but it's sort of far fetched and I try to not talk out of my *kitten*.

EDIT: Ok so I just got done with this messy turd of a reply that I just wrote and I actually do talk out of my *kitten* a bit. Suffice it to say that all of this is just purely speculation.

So having said that, here are some random things you might want to consider:

1) How has intuitive eating worked for most people so far? I'm going to go ahead and say that for the majority of overweight or obese individuals it doesn't work very well. That's not to say it can't work, I just don't think it's ideal. If people were able to regulate their bodyweight to healthy levels without needing to focus on energy balance then they probably wouldn't be here to begin with. (Note: Many people CAN do this, but most of them aren't here).

2) Hunger signaling is largely hormonal and I'm not aware of anything that suggests that energy intake is the main variable in shutting down hunger signals. Now I am not well researched in this area so if I'm wrong I'd love to see info on it, but my point is that I would think food volume would be a major factor in satiety/hunger blunting (taste probably is too as bland food tends to blunt hunger) -- but caloric intake probably doesn't rank very high on that list which means that depending on your "ability to listen to your intuition" you could easily end up shoveling 4k calories in your pie-hole. (Ironically it could be pie too).

Now you could try and accomplish this through food elimination and that's one mechanism that helps low carb diets work. Eliminate enough junk food and restrict yourself to limited carbs and mostly energy sparse ones like vegetables, and you end up with most of your food choices being potentially higher in satiety so by default, there's less risk of intuitively over-eating. Through limiting your food choices and basically eliminating (greatly reducing) an entire macronutrient, it's easier to intuitively create an energy deficit. I don't think this is ideal for other reasons (training output, adherence, etc), just for the record.

At any rate, I tried intuitive eating on my last bulk, which is just ending now. My goal was to gain .5 to 1lb/week without tracking intake and for the most part I was able to nail it pretty accurately without tracking anything. When I hit about 192-193, I stalled for a while and had to make a conscious effort to eat more food. I did this by eating more pop tarts (srs).

I would speculate that if I ballooned up to about 200-205, I could intuitively cut down again to about 192 or so, at which point I would expect to stall out again as this was roughly the weight at which my intuitive intake stuck me at when I hit caloric balance. This gets into set point theory and while it may not actually be a set point, it's the point at which my average intake brought me to without me making any efforts to control it.

Whether or not it would work the same way with everyone else, I can't really say. Assuming a little consistency in training and eating, I would expect that the average person would eat X amount and either lose until they stall out and then they either get stuck or possibly gain it back due to regulatory mechanisms (lose weight ---> get hungry---> eat more).

But I will say that for some people, calorie counting can be quite OCD. I go through issues with it myself.

lacurandera1

I'm not sure if i would call it "intuitive" eating, but I lost all of my weight without counting calories.

I ate when i was hungry. Until I was full. But I ate whole, clean, unprocessed foods (save dairy, bread and cottage cheese). Nothing was prepackaged. Nothing was made from a "mix." No soda, cookies, cake, sweets, etc. Looking back on it, I probably ate more calories some days then than I do now bc I really put back some peanuts.

Whatever works for you works for you. I'd say most people here got into the situation they're in from intuitive eating though, and don't know when enough is enough. It takes as much (or more) self control than counting calories.

carrieous

i think it would take a very long time of getting to understand the makeup of each food we eat PLUS how your body reacts to certain foods before you can rely on your "intuition".

I think its a good idea and its how i eat to a certain extent but I would not stop monitoring consumption altogether.

and i would in no circumstances consider it if you are an "emotional" eater

taso42

My opinion is that calorie counting is a temporary crutch we lean on, and the end game is to get into a pattern of sustainable intuitive eating. This goes for most "normal" people. That said, I don't see anything wrong with relying on calorie counting a few months of the year to shred up for beach season or whatnot.

ETA: A little background on me. I went from very overweight, possible obese to normal without doing any calorie counting. I only joined MFP and started logging calories because I wanted to work on getting a "6 pack". Now that I've relaxed that goal (plus I'm actively gaining weight), I've stopped logging for the time being.

skydiveD30571

I think they can be combined like in my case.

I count calories right now, but cant imagine myself doing it forever. I get OCD with it, and many times don't want to do it. With that said, I've been such a glutton especially on fast food for years while in college so I have no idea what a "reasonable amount of food is." What I currently do is count calories especially by planning my day ahead of time. And then pay attention to how much im eating, when, and how it makes me feel. I already know I'm set for the day so I can pay attention to just eating instead of logging as well.

Every week or so, I'll spend one day trying to eat what I feel like is a reasonable amount of food, then log it at night and see where I fall. At first my guesses were way off. But every week it gets better and now I can eat basically in my calorie range without logging first. I think it's a good plan to long term success.

SideSteel

My opinion is that calorie counting is a temporary crutch we lean on, and the end game is to get into a pattern of sustainable intuitive eating. This goes for most "normal" people. That said, I don't see anything wrong with relying on calorie counting a few months of the year to shred up for beach season or whatnot.

^ I agree with you although I'd call it a useful tool more than a crutch. But I suppose that depends on how far one takes it as it can be so OCD-like.

I really struggle with it.

I do think it's a very useful tool to give someone a better picture of portion and energy density/etc.

Some sort of combination of counting and not counting is probably where I'll end up.

jacksonpt

I think that the success of intuitive eating is based on one's eating habits/tendancies. I could never do that because I have lousy eating habits. Not everyone does. If using a little common sense is enough for you to be able to control portions and have a reasonably balanced diet, then great, more power to you. But I could never do that, so I still count. I have stretches where my diet/eating is routine enough that I don't have to log, but that rarely lasts more than a week or so.

If left to my own devices, I'll eat 5000 cals day of mostly fat and carbs.

MaxineMarieM

I think intutive eating works for some people but let's face obese people did not get fat from being intuitve. I have lost over 200 + lbs doing Weight Watchers. I needed the structure and accountability of the program. I hit goal and stopped going to to my meetings, had some major emotional things happen since then and have gained back 25 lbs. Now I am here doing MFP because I really wanted to get on handle on exactly how many calories I need per day to lose and then to finally maintain. All you can do is give it a try and see what works for you.

taso42

My opinion is that calorie counting is a temporary crutch we lean on, and the end game is to get into a pattern of sustainable intuitive eating. This goes for most "normal" people. That said, I don't see anything wrong with relying on calorie counting a few months of the year to shred up for beach season or whatnot.

^ I agree with you although I'd call it a useful tool more than a crutch. But I suppose that depends on how far one takes it as it can be so OCD-like.

I really struggle with it.

I do think it's a very useful tool to give someone a better picture of portion and energy density/etc.

Some sort of combination of counting and not counting is probably where I'll end up.

I suspect if i answered this during cutting season i would have chosen the words 'useful tool' rather than 'crutch' :bigsmile:

sunsnstatheart

I enjoy it but I enjoy tracking stats so it works for me. I'm also using it as an experiment in what I eat, performance and weight gain and loss. Then again, I do take days away from counting (but don't binge either). I suppose someone could get OCD with it if they have that type of personality.

SideSteel

My opinion is that calorie counting is a temporary crutch we lean on, and the end game is to get into a pattern of sustainable intuitive eating. This goes for most "normal" people. That said, I don't see anything wrong with relying on calorie counting a few months of the year to shred up for beach season or whatnot.

^ I agree with you although I'd call it a useful tool more than a crutch. But I suppose that depends on how far one takes it as it can be so OCD-like.

I really struggle with it.

I do think it's a very useful tool to give someone a better picture of portion and energy density/etc.

Some sort of combination of counting and not counting is probably where I'll end up.

I suspect if i answered this during cutting season i would have chosen the words 'useful tool' rather than 'crutch' :bigsmile:

LOL

iAMsmiling

I count at least 5 days a week. Weekends get away from me, and I'm sure my results suffer. So, even though I'd like to get to the point where I can monitor my eating more intuitively, for now at least, I need to count.

clover5

When my intuition says veggies, it's ok to run with it regardless of calories or macros. But when it says cookies, I'd better count calories (well most of them).

chayleah

I don't want to count calories forever so I am trying more of an intuitive approach towards fat loss now. With that said I do think it is important for any overweight person to spend some time counting calories. I think it is difficult to work on intuitive eating if you don't have any knowledge of how much you have been consuming versus how much you should be consuming.

I do believe that sometimes eating what you really want can stop you from munching mindlessly on random stuff trying to fulfill a craving. I also think that having a period of "clean eating" can help some people. Our taste buds are all skewed from the sugar and salt in things that we don't expect to have sugar and salt. I did a whole foods challenge for a while & now candy & sweeten drinks taste almost too sweet...that helps me to eat less of those things.

jbug100

I counted cals until what was once difficult (knowing how many cals I was eating, and how they were distributed between macros), became a habit. I would say it took about a year. Once good habits were established, my hunger and satiety signals became much clearer. Now I eat more intuitively. I have gained back a few pounds, so I am trying to log to remind myself of what it took to lose weight. I was a little OCD with logging whiile I was learning, but now it just annoys me. I'd rather rely completely on intuition, but not sure if it's realistic. I may check out that book.

weird_me2

I think everyone should work on learning how to eat intuitively and listen to their body's satisfaction signals. I think it's a very helpful tool, just like calorie counting is.

So many people say "oh, it would never work for me" or "my satisfaction signal is broken", but, I think that for the majority, this is not true. We spend so long ignoring our body and mistreating it that we often don't know how to listen for the signals of hunger and satiety and it can take a while to figure out what are true hunger signals and satiety signals. People gain weight for a variety of reason, but it's often due to out of control portions, excess calories from beverages (which don't register in our satisfaction meters), or eating for reasons other than hunger. If a person is trying to lose or maintain weight by counting calories and eating a reasonable amount of a variety of foods, they should be able to learn their hunger signals and satiety signals and manage to learn to eat intuitively or mostly intuitively. We also have to be mature when eating intuitively, because I know that I personally would never choose most veggies and fruits if I was eating *only* what I wanted, but I've found that it's really not hard at all to fit the healthy stuff in when I'm hungry and still have room for the other stuff.

Yes, I was moribly obese and am still obese. Yes, I obviously ate more calories than I needed. I did this mainly by eating for reasons other than hunger and even binging at times. In order to do this, I had to ignore my body's signals. As I've worked on listening to my body and worked hard to eat when I'm hungry, eat enough to be pleasantly full but not stuffed, and eat what I enjoy, I've noticed that it's harder and harder for me to binge and overeat for comfort. Yes, it still happens, but when it does, I recognize that I'm making the decision to ignore my body. Last night, we were at an Oscar's party and we had lots of good foods. I ate a serving of the things I really wanted, then had another small serving of one food and a handfull of candy. I didn't log it until I got home. It was a bit high in calories, but since I had exercised pretty hard in the morning, I still had over 500 calories left at the end of the day. I didn't eat them because I wasn't hungry. Most days, I plan reasonable healthy meals and snacks and eat around the same times every day. Some days, I don't eat my snacks because I'm not hungry, some days I eat extra food. It all averages out in the end.

KenosFeoh

My intuition is a sadistic b*stard! It's always telling me "this, now this, some of that, a handful of this other thing." I think I'm giving my hunger what it wants, but it always wants something else.

I bought into the idea that my body would settle naturally at the weight it wanted to be and stopped monitoring myself at about 162 pounds. I would turn my back on the scales at the doctor's office because I just didn't want to know how much weight I was gaining, and I didn't want my thoughts to interfere with my body's natural wisdom. What a crock!

When I finally checked, I discovered to my horror that I was up to 207 pounds. I knew without a doubt that my weight would continue to climb as long as I allowed it. I don't care if my body wants to weigh 250+ pounds, I do not, and I am in charge, not my appetite!

So intuitive eating can bite me! It's monitoring and calorie counting all the way.

weird_me2

My intuition is a sadistic b*stard! It's always telling me "this, now this, some of that, a handful of this other thing." I think I'm giving my hunger what it wants, but it always wants something else.

....

So intuitive eating can bite me! It's monitoring and calorie counting all the way.

Is it even the least bit possible that it wasn't true hunger that was telling you this but instead a mental issue? When you were "listening to your hunger", were you truly letting yourself feel hunger and eating only when hungry and stopping when you were satisfied, or were you listening to the voice that was saying...hmm...I haven't eaten in an hour, a few chips sound good...hmmm....those chips didn't hold me over, maybe I'll have some of these cookies that look good...etc.?

I do think that most people can be successful eating intuitively and listening to their hunger/satisfaction signals, but they do have to be mature about it (which means eating for health as well as enjoyment) and do have to be honest with themselves about their reasons for eating. So many people say "I don't think when I'm eating XYZ, it just happens" when in reality there is usually some thought that accompanies us eating what we do. We just have to put the mental energy in to figuring it out.

I'm not saying everyone can be successful, but I think that many people cna be pleasantly surprised if they REALLY learn to eat intuitively and to hunger/satisfaction.

jeme3

Um, hello, I'm hungry for EVERYTHING. ALL the TIME.

That's what got me in to this mess in the first place.

I've been doing this MFP thing for about 6 months. I have carefully logged pretty close to every single bite that has gone in to my mouth , and done a pretty decent job of eating healthy, well balanced foods.

I have made my self very much healthier- I am no longer pre-diabetic.

I understand the difference between needing to eat and wanting to eat.

Within about two hours of eating, I start feeling hungry again. Every meal. All day long. I wake up at night sometimes and feel hungry.

I eat three main meals and two snacks most days and try to ignore the hunger sensation as much as I can. Intellectually, I know I don't need to eat.

My body, on the other hand, has long been convinced a period of famine is just around the corner and I better stock up while I can.

Because I know I am much healthier now than when I started, and I know I am eating appropriately, I'll continue.

But seriously, my intuition tells me to EAT MORE NOW.

wolfchild59

One of the main points in the book is to eat what you are hungry for.

This seems like a flawed concept. Intuitively, I do know that I should eat healthy foods that aren't processed and have a high nutritional value over empty calories. I can, fairly easily, go through life eating healthy foods, opting for salads, eating lean proteins, and generally eating what is "right" for my body. I know how to plan meals and food for a day at 1200 calories, 1400 calories, 1700 calories, etc. to where I've hit my macros, don't feel hungry throughout the day, and hit all of my vitamin/mineral RDAs.

But if I were to eat what I'm hungry for, as the statement says, I would probably not eat anywhere close that way. I would be enjoying the new wing place a block from my house, a big ole bacon cheeseburger with onion rings, heading to all of the awesome new places that open around me, enjoying dense brownies, heading to the food truck pods near my house and work on Monday's and Friday's and sampling three or more trucks each time, or just munching down an entire bag of chips and dip in one sitting.

Because that's what I get hungry for. I eat like the first paragraph because to make me stop being hungry. I eat like the second paragraph because it's what I want to eat. I grew up surrounded by really good food and typically want to eat at all of the local spots with the best food around. It's rare that I order a salad because it's what I really want, but I eat a lot of salads, because I know it's what my body needs.

So, for me, calorie counting makes much more sense than intuitive eating as defined by that particular statement. If we define intuitive as knowing what your body needs to be healthy and then purposefully eating to reflect that, then I think I could see it as a more logical option. But eating what I'm hungry for doesn't work for me.

KenosFeoh

My intuition is a sadistic b*stard! It's always telling me "this, now this, some of that, a handful of this other thing." I think I'm giving my hunger what it wants, but it always wants something else.

....

So intuitive eating can bite me! It's monitoring and calorie counting all the way.

Is it even the least bit possible that it wasn't true hunger that was telling you this but instead a mental issue? When you were "listening to your hunger", were you truly letting yourself feel hunger and eating only when hungry and stopping when you were satisfied, or were you listening to the voice that was saying...hmm...I haven't eaten in an hour, a few chips sound good...hmmm....those chips didn't hold me over, maybe I'll have some of these cookies that look good...etc.?

I do think that most people can be successful eating intuitively and listening to their hunger/satisfaction signals, but they do have to be mature about it (which means eating for health as well as enjoyment) and do have to be honest with themselves about their reasons for eating. So many people say "I don't think when I'm eating XYZ, it just happens" when in reality there is usually some thought that accompanies us eating what we do. We just have to put the mental energy in to figuring it out.

Oh, I'm sure there are other mental issues involved. In the end, it doesn't matter. What is true FOR ME is that it's almost impossible to tell the difference between "I'm hungry" and "I want to eat something". Same hollow feeling in the gut, same stomach growling, same drive to find something and eat it now. So logical thinking has taken over to tell me whether or not it's meal time and what I need to eat (salad not cookies - close the cupboard!).

fiberartist219

Intuitive eating works for me, but I did do a few months of calorie counting in 2011. I am glad I did the calorie counting, because I had no idea how my foods were affecting me, and it help me reset the concept of how much food is appropriate for a person my size.

However, I had little patience for it. Logging every bite of food is annoying, and I didn't care to figure out every recipe or ask my friends for nutrition info if I'm eating something they cooked. It was frustrating, and I knew I wouldn't do it forever.

Honestly, when I was counting calories, I wasn't losing as much weight as MFP said I would.

I found that being comfortable and really paying attention to how I feel is more successful than counting calories. Calorie counting made me hungrier, because I was constantly thinking about food and planning my next meal.

With the intuitive eating, I don't think about food until I'm hungry, and I stop thinking about it when I'm not hungry anymore. It seems like the more I think about my food, the more I want it. Intuitive eating is freeing.

jonnythan

Well I know I didn't get fat because I was so intuitive about food. I got fat because I ate too much.

So I decided to actually do things differently to lose weight. I count calories. And it works.

cwolfman13

When it's all said and done, I'm hoping to become an intuitive eater. I actually lost about 10 Lbs before MFP being an intuitive eater...problem was my intuition was still a bit off and I stalled big time. Once I started logging and counting, I could see that my intuition was no good...not only from an energy standpoint, but also from a macro and micro standpoint. Wasn't getting nearly enough protein or heart healthy fats in my diet and tons of carbs.

Counting and logging has really changed my life for the better...I now know how much energy my body needs to lose/maintain/gain...I know what a portion of something looks like and feels like...I now know what foods I need for a balanced, nutritional diet, etc.

In the end, I'll estimate that I will have been counting calories for 9 - 12 months. It's taught me a lot and I'm hoping I can take what I've learned and become an intuitive eater...'cuz I really don't want to count and log for the rest of my life.

T1mH

Today's foods are engineered to make you feel not full and to want more of them. When Lay's potato chips say "You can't eat just one" they mean it because they've made them that way.

ldrosophila

I wish I could eat intuitively but my relationship with food and my body is so F-cked up theres no way I would be successful, maybe one day. Weighing and measuring is working for me now. I do find though that as I eat this way the physiological changes with my hunger and lowered circulating insulin is helping me to listen to my body signals better.

Also, I've accepted that this maybe my reality for the rest of my life. You dont get close to 400lbs cause you eat a couple extra chips.

Proyecto_AN

I do intuitive eating saturdays or sundays. I do not plan to count calories all my life.

Bonny619

Intuitive eating doesn't work for me because I intuitively want to stuff my face.

jonnythan

Intuitive eating doesn't work for me because I intuitively want to stuff my face.

Exactly! None of us got overweight because we have a good, intuitive, healthy relationship with food!

rileamoyer

Intuitive eating doesn't work for me because I intuitively want to stuff my face.

Exactly! None of us got overweight because we have a good, intuitive, healthy relationship with food!

BINGO at least in my case. I would be living on biscuits and piecrusts LOL