lets talk about insulin
Replies
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All - it's fine. No, insulin resistance isn't where I was hoping this thread would go... but I do think there are probably more people concerned about those issues than the things I'm curious about, as evidenced by the natural progression of this thread. Feel free to keep the conversation going, and I'll throw in my $.02 when appropriate.
I need to go back and reread the article linked early on in this thread... I think I'll have some follow-up questions to that which will bring conversation back to the things I'm interested in.0 -
So...
Let's start with the most basic question... what is insulin's function in the body? What does it really do?
My understanding is that it's basically a signalling chemical. It tells you cells when to build tissue. The higher your insulin levels, the stronger that signal to build will be. It is also my understanding that insulin isn't specific to to fat or anything else... that it simply tells your cells to build tissue, and what types of tissue they build is dependent on a variety of factors.
True? Completely wrong? What say you?
I am a fourth year medical student - whose almost done with rotations, so not a Dr but I will have my MD in a few months.
People on boards do freak out about insulin too much in my opinion so I'll just give you a basic overview then my thoughts on in it - however I just want to preface saying that I am going to be discussing it in regards to a healthy person, if someone has DM type II or I or is prediabetic then they are under a different set of circumstances
Insulin is secreted by your pancreas and has a number of functions - like you said it gives a 'building signal' which encourages adipose/muscle production, it opens certain glucose channels which allow sugar to enter certain cells including skeletal muscle tissue and it promotes the formation of glycogen which is a stored form of energy.
people typically spike insulin when they are post-prandial or in a post feeding state and a normal persons sugar will return to their 'baseline' level usually within two hours.
In regards to dieting: Insulin does not make you fat, people believe that their low carb diets are working because they arent spiking insulin but in reality the reason why low carb causes you to lose weight is because you are depleting your glycogen (which takes a lot longer then people think, you wont deplete all your glycogen in one hard workout, it takes a while) so your body has to oxidize fat - betaoxidation of fatty acids releases ketone bodies --> hence why people like to say they are in ketosis, just a fancy way to say you are producing ketones.
should you really be worrying about insulin? unless you are diabetic or have some sort of metabolic abnormality, in other words you are a 'normal' individual - no, just eat at a deficit and the weight will come off. Also as a note when you eat a large protein/fat based meal you will still spike an insulin level - it doesn't require some magic number of carbs.
If you are a person concerned about Insulin resistance then I encourage you to visit your Dr.
Beautiful. There you go! A doc to be that knows something about insulin and nutrition, YAY! Doc-to-be if you have time could you discuss some of the smooth muscle cell re-uptake that healthy individuals get with training? This might be good for the diabetics to hear. Thank you for encouraging those who think they have an insuln abnormality to see their doctor.0 -
I appreciated the "soon to be MD's" perspective on this discussion. I guess I'm wondering how jacksonpt's question on what insulin is and how it works has somehow turned into a discussion of Insulin Resistance and diabetes. I do not agree at all that all of the general population is somewhere on a scale of insulin sensitivity issues. Unfortunately, this is the kind of thing that happens when this topic is brought up. People with an agenda get on the soapbox.
Seems to me if someone wants to start a thread about insulin resistance they should instead of hijacking this one.
Just as a reminder, this was the original question: "Let's start with the most basic question... what is insulin's function in the body? What does it really do?"
I don't see anthing there about insulin resistance and how that impacts obesity in the general population. Let's get back on track.
Wow, thanks for reminding me why I have started to avoid forums all-together. It would seem that discussing how something works(or doesn't work) isn't that far off topic. It was not my intentions to hijack anything and apologize to the OP if that happened. Carry on....0 -
I appreciated the "soon to be MD's" perspective on this discussion. I guess I'm wondering how jacksonpt's question on what insulin is and how it works has somehow turned into a discussion of Insulin Resistance and diabetes. I do not agree at all that all of the general population is somewhere on a scale of insulin sensitivity issues. Unfortunately, this is the kind of thing that happens when this topic is brought up. People with an agenda get on the soapbox.
Seems to me if someone wants to start a thread about insulin resistance they should instead of hijacking this one.
Just as a reminder, this was the original question: "Let's start with the most basic question... what is insulin's function in the body? What does it really do?"
I don't see anthing there about insulin resistance and how that impacts obesity in the general population. Let's get back on track.
Wow, thanks for reminding me why I have started to avoid forums all-together. It would seem that discussing how something works(or doesn't work) isn't that far off topic. It was not my intentions to hijack anything and apologize to the OP if that happened. Carry on....
mmapags is a very smart, well researched, and very helpful MFP member. I'm sorry you feel attacked by his statement, but I can guarantee that he was just trying to keep the conversation on course.
The problem that he and the OP are trying to discuss is how insulin affects the normal, average individual who is not insulin resistant. Too many people think insulin affects them in ways that are similar to someone who is diabetic/insulin resistant, when in fact it does not. The point of this discussion was to determine how insulin acts in a normal body and to educate those individuals so maybe they won't be so sensitive/concerned about insulin and related issues.
Does insulin resistance deserve in depth discussion? Absolutely. Does it need to happen on this thread? Probably not. (although the OP has now said he doesn't mind...but still, mmapags wasn't trying to attack you.)0 -
I appreciated the "soon to be MD's" perspective on this discussion. I guess I'm wondering how jacksonpt's question on what insulin is and how it works has somehow turned into a discussion of Insulin Resistance and diabetes. I do not agree at all that all of the general population is somewhere on a scale of insulin sensitivity issues. Unfortunately, this is the kind of thing that happens when this topic is brought up. People with an agenda get on the soapbox.
Seems to me if someone wants to start a thread about insulin resistance they should instead of hijacking this one.
Just as a reminder, this was the original question: "Let's start with the most basic question... what is insulin's function in the body? What does it really do?"
I don't see anthing there about insulin resistance and how that impacts obesity in the general population. Let's get back on track.
Wow, thanks for reminding me why I have started to avoid forums all-together. It would seem that discussing how something works(or doesn't work) isn't that far off topic. It was not my intentions to hijack anything and apologize to the OP if that happened. Carry on....
mmapags is a very smart, well researched, and very helpful MFP member. I'm sorry you feel attacked by his statement, but I can guarantee that he was just trying to keep the conversation on course.
The problem that he and the OP are trying to discuss is how insulin affects the normal, average individual who is not insulin resistant. Too many people think insulin affects them in ways that are similar to someone who is diabetic/insulin resistant, when in fact it does not. The point of this discussion was to determine how insulin acts in a normal body and to educate those individuals so maybe they won't be so sensitive/concerned about insulin and related issues.
Does insulin resistance deserve in depth discussion? Absolutely. Does it need to happen on this thread? Probably not. (although the OP has now said he doesn't mind...but still, mmapags wasn't trying to attack you.)
Correct and thanks Lora!0 -
I guess my question would be this (again OP please feel free to smack me into place if this isn't the direction you'd like your thread to go) does an otherwise healthy athlete who requires more carbohydrates in their diet (i.e. marathon runners) have a greater chance of developing diabetes later in life than an athlete who isn't required to have such a high volume of carbs?0
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Insulin is produced in response to eating. Eating High GI (glycemic index) foods results in more insulin being produced, than if you eat Low GI foods. The glycemic index of food is determined by how quickly the energy in that food is released into the body. Low GI foods results in lower levels of insulin being produced over a longer period of time, reducing the peaks and troughs experienced with high GI foods (these being refined flours and sugars, and any foods made from them.
The following is the advice I give the my clients about a healthy diet (including weight loss) and a healthy heart. Essentially this is a Low GI diet that is suitable for the general population, pre-diabetics, and those with insulin resistance. Suitable for most People with Diabetes as well.
Eat a variety of whole grains throughout the day (whole grain bread, whole meal pasta or a mix of 50/50 with white pasta; brown rice, or again a 50/50 mix with white rice; couscous is really easy and quick to make a salad with as well. These whole grains slow digestion and keep you feeling full for longer.
Lean protein (meat with all visible fat removed,) eggs, low fat milk, yoghurt, cheese, beans (kidney, green, edamame, chickpeas etc. (good for maintaing and building new muscle cells when you're increasing exercise or changing your workout.) Important to help maintain or build muscle mass required for strength as we age, and maintain or increase our metabolic rates.
Fruit and vegetables - a variety if different colours but a minimum of 5 servings per day. These are what give you the right nutrients for staying well, and assisting recovery after a hard workout.
Water - 6-8glasses per day, more when you exercise. Amount depends on how hard you work out or sweat. Helps to hydrate yor body and remove toxins.
The other thing I tell my clients is this:
if you think you have a lot of changes to make, pick one thing and work on it for the week. The next week, choose another change to add and so on. Eg. eat a minimum of 5servings of fruit and vegetables/day; exercise daily ( or whatever goal you set for yourself.)
Hope this helps some of you.0 -
Have you seen this info from Kreiger?
http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=319
ok, things I'm taking away from this article (feel free to comment/discuss as necessary)
1) insulin spikes are good for performance as it allows (increases?) blood glucose transfer into cells for use as energy.
2) insulin affects/leads to/causes (not sure how direct the correlation is) protein synthesis (technically this is the creation of new protein, but what exactly is that... muscle tissue growth? repair existing muscle? etc), which is obviously a good thing
3) insulin inhibits the breakdown of fat (bad) and increases the creation of fat (bad)
4) insulin and blood sugar do not have a 1:1 relationship (for lack of a better description)... meaning you can see significant insulin increases without the same significant blood sugar increase. However, blood sugar increases always result in a similar insulin increase.
The first point explains why simple sugars result in a greater performance boost than do complex carbs, correct? The article talks about insulin response carbs vs protein, but not simple carbs vs complex carbs.
The second point is what I'm most curious about. Considering whey is highly insulinic (or whatever the word is), is this why whey protein shakes post workout are so popular? Also, wouldn't this point suggest that fasted training would be less effective since insulin levels are lower?
The third point is clearly where all the insulin panicking comes from. But according to the article, things balance themselves out over the course of the day such that times of high insulin level (lower fat burn) are balanced out by times of low insulin (higher fat burns). So assuming a reasonably healthy diet with reasonably intake, this is largely a non-issue, right?
Not sure what to make of point 4 yet... still mulling that one over a bit.0 -
whey is encouraged post workout due to its digestibility. It is quickly digested and absorbed into the bloodstream where as some other protein supplements are much slower to digest and be absorbed.
I don't have any links, but I remember reading that thee is a measurable increase in amino acids in the bloodstream within 20 to 30 minutes of consuming a whey drink.
insulin helps to shuttle those amino's into the cells where they are used to create new hormones, new proteins for new cells, replace damaged proteins within the existing cells, etc.0 -
Tagging for follow-up.0
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Considering whey is highly insulinic (or whatever the word is), is this why whey protein shakes post workout are so popular?
Whey is popular due to marketing and muscle magazines.
Post workout carbs are popular due to the belief that they are needed in order to elevate insulin.0 -
Whey is popular due to marketing and muscle magazines.Considering whey is highly insulinic (or whatever the word is), is this why whey protein shakes post workout are so popular?
I have no doubt this is a big part of it... but behind any great lie is a modicum of truth, no?0 -
Bump for later.....would like to know more about this topic. I used to be hypoglycemic and am now pregnant and found out that I have gestational diabetes.0
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Whey is popular due to marketing and muscle magazines.Considering whey is highly insulinic (or whatever the word is), is this why whey protein shakes post workout are so popular?
I have no doubt this is a big part of it... but behind any great lie is a modicum of truth, no?
I don't think the popularity of whey has anything to do with insulin honestly. For the record, I use whey myself and think it's a great supplement to help me hit my protein target for the day, so I certainly don't mean to suggest that it's useless. I just think the application, dosage, and timing of it are all over-hyped and over-marketed, hence my comment about it's popularity.0 -
Have you seen this info from Kreiger?
http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=319
ok, things I'm taking away from this article (feel free to comment/discuss as necessary)
1) insulin spikes are good for performance as it allows (increases?) blood glucose transfer into cells for use as energy.
2) insulin affects/leads to/causes (not sure how direct the correlation is) protein synthesis (technically this is the creation of new protein, but what exactly is that... muscle tissue growth? repair existing muscle? etc), which is obviously a good thing
3) insulin inhibits the breakdown of fat (bad) and increases the creation of fat (bad)
4) insulin and blood sugar do not have a 1:1 relationship (for lack of a better description)... meaning you can see significant insulin increases without the same significant blood sugar increase. However, blood sugar increases always result in a similar insulin increase.
The first point explains why simple sugars result in a greater performance boost than do complex carbs, correct? The article talks about insulin response carbs vs protein, but not simple carbs vs complex carbs.
The second point is what I'm most curious about. Considering whey is highly insulinic (or whatever the word is), is this why whey protein shakes post workout are so popular? Also, wouldn't this point suggest that fasted training would be less effective since insulin levels are lower?
The third point is clearly where all the insulin panicking comes from. But according to the article, things balance themselves out over the course of the day such that times of high insulin level (lower fat burn) are balanced out by times of low insulin (higher fat burns). So assuming a reasonably healthy diet with reasonably intake, this is largely a non-issue, right?
Not sure what to make of point 4 yet... still mulling that one over a bit.
1. Correct. Important if your are engaged in training. Probably not otherwise.
2. As I understand it, insulin is basically a shuttle hormone for nutrients. The research I've read indicates fasted training is slightly less effective than fed training. Both Lyle McDonald and Alan Aragon have written summarizing some of the research on this.
3. You assesment is dead on with those set of assumptions. This is where things get short circuited for the insulin resistant and why they end up storing fat instead of getting adequate nutrients to the tissue as I understand it.
4. There is not a direct relationship of insulin to blood sugar. The issues that can take place relate to overconsumption of carbs leading to metabolic issues like insulin resistance. But, clearly, as I learned when I first saw this article about a year ago (thanks SS) protein is equally insulinogenic with no cooresponding spike in blood sugar.
Conclusion: Insulin is not the problem. It's just doing it's job. Any problem traces back to genetic predispostion and/ or diet composition in my (admittedly limited) view.0 -
Whey is popular due to marketing and muscle magazines.Considering whey is highly insulinic (or whatever the word is), is this why whey protein shakes post workout are so popular?
I have no doubt this is a big part of it... but behind any great lie is a modicum of truth, no?
I don't think the popularity of whey has anything to do with insulin honestly. For the record, I use whey myself and think it's a great supplement to help me hit my protein target for the day, so I certainly don't mean to suggest that it's useless. I just think the application, dosage, and timing of it are all over-hyped and over-marketed, hence my comment about it's popularity.
Over-hyped and over-marketed... I agree. Would you go so far as to say completely irrelevant?
I guess this gets at the most optimal/efficient approach (a la Layne Norton) vs the more pragmatic approach (Alan Aragon).0 -
I appreciated the "soon to be MD's" perspective on this discussion. I guess I'm wondering how jacksonpt's question on what insulin is and how it works has somehow turned into a discussion of Insulin Resistance and diabetes. I do not agree at all that all of the general population is somewhere on a scale of insulin sensitivity issues. Unfortunately, this is the kind of thing that happens when this topic is brought up. People with an agenda get on the soapbox.
Seems to me if someone wants to start a thread about insulin resistance they should instead of hijacking this one.
Just as a reminder, this was the original question: "Let's start with the most basic question... what is insulin's function in the body? What does it really do?"
I don't see anthing there about insulin resistance and how that impacts obesity in the general population. Let's get back on track.
^this all over the place!!
Thanks to the soon to be MD for very useful input!0 -
Have you seen this info from Kreiger?
http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=319
ok, things I'm taking away from this article (feel free to comment/discuss as necessary)
1) insulin spikes are good for performance as it allows (increases?) blood glucose transfer into cells for use as energy.
2) insulin affects/leads to/causes (not sure how direct the correlation is) protein synthesis (technically this is the creation of new protein, but what exactly is that... muscle tissue growth? repair existing muscle? etc), which is obviously a good thing
3) insulin inhibits the breakdown of fat (bad) and increases the creation of fat (bad)
4) insulin and blood sugar do not have a 1:1 relationship (for lack of a better description)... meaning you can see significant insulin increases without the same significant blood sugar increase. However, blood sugar increases always result in a similar insulin increase.
The first point explains why simple sugars result in a greater performance boost than do complex carbs, correct? The article talks about insulin response carbs vs protein, but not simple carbs vs complex carbs.
The second point is what I'm most curious about. Considering whey is highly insulinic (or whatever the word is), is this why whey protein shakes post workout are so popular? Also, wouldn't this point suggest that fasted training would be less effective since insulin levels are lower?
The third point is clearly where all the insulin panicking comes from. But according to the article, things balance themselves out over the course of the day such that times of high insulin level (lower fat burn) are balanced out by times of low insulin (higher fat burns). So assuming a reasonably healthy diet with reasonably intake, this is largely a non-issue, right?
Not sure what to make of point 4 yet... still mulling that one over a bit.
1. Correct. Important if your are engaged in training. Probably not otherwise.
2. As I understand it, insulin is basically a shuttle hormone for nutrients. The research I've read indicates fasted training is slightly less effective than fed training. Both Lyle McDonald and Alan Aragon have written summarizing some of the research on this.
3. You assesment is dead on with those set of assumptions. This is where things get short circuited for the insulin resistant and why they end up storing fat instead of getting adequate nutrients to the tissue as I understand it.
4. There is not a direct relationship of insulin to blood sugar. The issues that can take place relate to overconsumption of carbs leading to metabolic issues like insulin resistance. But, clearly, as I learned when I first saw this article about a year ago (thanks SS) protein is equally insulinogenic with no cooresponding spike in blood sugar.
Conclusion: Insulin is not the problem. It's just doing it's job. Any problem traces back to genetic predispostion and/ or diet composition in my (admittedly limited) view.
Diet composition as in macros?0 -
Whey is popular due to marketing and muscle magazines.Considering whey is highly insulinic (or whatever the word is), is this why whey protein shakes post workout are so popular?
I have no doubt this is a big part of it... but behind any great lie is a modicum of truth, no?
I don't think the popularity of whey has anything to do with insulin honestly. For the record, I use whey myself and think it's a great supplement to help me hit my protein target for the day, so I certainly don't mean to suggest that it's useless. I just think the application, dosage, and timing of it are all over-hyped and over-marketed, hence my comment about it's popularity.
Over-hyped and over-marketed... I agree. Would you go so far as to say completely irrelevant?
I guess this gets at the most optimal/efficient approach (a la Layne Norton) vs the more pragmatic approach (Alan Aragon).
No, I wouldn't say completely irrelevant if you're talking about aspects of nutrient timing. I'd be comfortable with "mostly irrelevant" or "probably won't make any damn difference" or "why would anyone worry about this when it may contribute .5% when they've probably got things that contribute 80% that could be improved upon" or many other ambiguous dodges -- but I wouldn't make a black-and-white statement to say that it's 100% irrelevant under all circumstances.
But that's almost semantics.0 -
Whey is popular due to marketing and muscle magazines.Considering whey is highly insulinic (or whatever the word is), is this why whey protein shakes post workout are so popular?
I have no doubt this is a big part of it... but behind any great lie is a modicum of truth, no?
I don't think the popularity of whey has anything to do with insulin honestly. For the record, I use whey myself and think it's a great supplement to help me hit my protein target for the day, so I certainly don't mean to suggest that it's useless. I just think the application, dosage, and timing of it are all over-hyped and over-marketed, hence my comment about it's popularity.
Over-hyped and over-marketed... I agree. Would you go so far as to say completely irrelevant?
I guess this gets at the most optimal/efficient approach (a la Layne Norton) vs the more pragmatic approach (Alan Aragon).
No, I wouldn't say completely irrelevant if you're talking about aspects of nutrient timing. I'd be comfortable with "mostly irrelevant" or "probably won't make any damn difference" or "why would anyone worry about this when it may contribute .5% when they've probably got things that contribute 80% that could be improved upon" or many other ambiguous dodges -- but I wouldn't make a black-and-white statement to say that it's 100% irrelevant under all circumstances.
But that's almost semantics.
Gotcha. I can certainly buy that it's fairly insignificant in the bigger picture, but I have a hard time accepting that it's completely irrelevant.0 -
Have you seen this info from Kreiger?
http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=319
ok, things I'm taking away from this article (feel free to comment/discuss as necessary)
1) insulin spikes are good for performance as it allows (increases?) blood glucose transfer into cells for use as energy.
2) insulin affects/leads to/causes (not sure how direct the correlation is) protein synthesis (technically this is the creation of new protein, but what exactly is that... muscle tissue growth? repair existing muscle? etc), which is obviously a good thing
3) insulin inhibits the breakdown of fat (bad) and increases the creation of fat (bad)
4) insulin and blood sugar do not have a 1:1 relationship (for lack of a better description)... meaning you can see significant insulin increases without the same significant blood sugar increase. However, blood sugar increases always result in a similar insulin increase.
1) Insulin spike for performance is iffy. How you feel after a big carb meal(large insulin spike)? Most people feel groggy and tired. Insulin triggers the parasympathetic nervous system which make people feel groggy and tired. Some runners try to carb load sometimes meaning eating a big carb based meal a day before the race for more energy. This usually back fires because it will add water weight slowing down the runner and their performance suffers. It is important to be fueled but not tired.
2) Hyperplasia is the process of building "new" muscle fibers, this hasn't been concluded by science yet, it's still debatable. The growth of muscle due to the increase of fluid is very possible. Some protein is required, but also water and mostly carbs. Not sur if you're aware but sometimes when bodybuidlers do low carbs their muscle shrink. When they eat carbs again they swell up, doesn't have much to do with protei.
3) Um it doesn't matter. It's not like you will have elevated insulin levels all day storing fat all day. The body is constantly storing and releasing fat the key to lose fat is to release more fat than you store.
4. I don't know if that's true, i can't think of an example in which that case that would be true.
1) True, been there. But what about about smaller doses... 2 rice crispy treats vs 2 slices of whole wheat bread?
2) That's about volume of muscle, not actual muscle fibers growing/increasing, no? Kind of like a dry sponge vs a wet - same sponge, just different volume based on how much water its holding.
3) Right, that's what I took away from the article.
4) According to the article, carbs cause a significant increase in both blood sugar and insulin (very closely linked), while protein creates a significant increase in insulin but a relatively insignificant increase in blood sugar (not closely tied). Again, not sure what exactly to make of this in real world terms.0 -
Whey is popular due to marketing and muscle magazines.Considering whey is highly insulinic (or whatever the word is), is this why whey protein shakes post workout are so popular?
I have no doubt this is a big part of it... but behind any great lie is a modicum of truth, no?
I don't think the popularity of whey has anything to do with insulin honestly. For the record, I use whey myself and think it's a great supplement to help me hit my protein target for the day, so I certainly don't mean to suggest that it's useless. I just think the application, dosage, and timing of it are all over-hyped and over-marketed, hence my comment about it's popularity.
Over-hyped and over-marketed... I agree. Would you go so far as to say completely irrelevant?
I guess this gets at the most optimal/efficient approach (a la Layne Norton) vs the more pragmatic approach (Alan Aragon).
No, I wouldn't say completely irrelevant if you're talking about aspects of nutrient timing. I'd be comfortable with "mostly irrelevant" or "probably won't make any damn difference" or "why would anyone worry about this when it may contribute .5% when they've probably got things that contribute 80% that could be improved upon" or many other ambiguous dodges -- but I wouldn't make a black-and-white statement to say that it's 100% irrelevant under all circumstances.
But that's almost semantics.
Gotcha. I can certainly buy that it's fairly insignificant in the bigger picture, but I have a hard time accepting that it's completely irrelevant.
Again I think this boils down to context. I would expect that a number of factors play into this, but for my case just as an example, if I'm consuming "some protein" proximal to my workout, I really don't have any concern at all, like ZERO concern, that I'm missing out on any relevant benefit to further dialing in my protein timing for anabolic purposes (for performance related effects I would say nutrient timing is vital, it just varies from person to person).0 -
Have you seen this info from Kreiger?
http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=319
ok, things I'm taking away from this article (feel free to comment/discuss as necessary)
1) insulin spikes are good for performance as it allows (increases?) blood glucose transfer into cells for use as energy.
2) insulin affects/leads to/causes (not sure how direct the correlation is) protein synthesis (technically this is the creation of new protein, but what exactly is that... muscle tissue growth? repair existing muscle? etc), which is obviously a good thing
3) insulin inhibits the breakdown of fat (bad) and increases the creation of fat (bad)
4) insulin and blood sugar do not have a 1:1 relationship (for lack of a better description)... meaning you can see significant insulin increases without the same significant blood sugar increase. However, blood sugar increases always result in a similar insulin increase.
The first point explains why simple sugars result in a greater performance boost than do complex carbs, correct? The article talks about insulin response carbs vs protein, but not simple carbs vs complex carbs.
The second point is what I'm most curious about. Considering whey is highly insulinic (or whatever the word is), is this why whey protein shakes post workout are so popular? Also, wouldn't this point suggest that fasted training would be less effective since insulin levels are lower?
The third point is clearly where all the insulin panicking comes from. But according to the article, things balance themselves out over the course of the day such that times of high insulin level (lower fat burn) are balanced out by times of low insulin (higher fat burns). So assuming a reasonably healthy diet with reasonably intake, this is largely a non-issue, right?
Not sure what to make of point 4 yet... still mulling that one over a bit.
1. Correct. Important if your are engaged in training. Probably not otherwise.
2. As I understand it, insulin is basically a shuttle hormone for nutrients. The research I've read indicates fasted training is slightly less effective than fed training. Both Lyle McDonald and Alan Aragon have written summarizing some of the research on this.
3. You assesment is dead on with those set of assumptions. This is where things get short circuited for the insulin resistant and why they end up storing fat instead of getting adequate nutrients to the tissue as I understand it.
4. There is not a direct relationship of insulin to blood sugar. The issues that can take place relate to overconsumption of carbs leading to metabolic issues like insulin resistance. But, clearly, as I learned when I first saw this article about a year ago (thanks SS) protein is equally insulinogenic with no cooresponding spike in blood sugar.
Conclusion: Insulin is not the problem. It's just doing it's job. Any problem traces back to genetic predispostion and/ or diet composition in my (admittedly limited) view.
Diet composition as in macros?
Yes, exactly. Specifically, ridiculous overconsumption of simple/ sugary carbs. I don't remember the study I read or I'd post the link but it was about a obsese, inactive population that eats ridiculous amouts of sugary carbs, like 400 to 600 grams per day. The was a strong corelation to this level of consumption, combined with inactivity, and insulin resistance. That is not to say that all insulin resistants are in the grouping. For some, there can be genetic or other causes. But in any event, in my view, the problem is not insulin. It's just doing what it's designed to do: shuttle nutrients from ingested food to where they are needed or put them in to storage in the case of a surplus.
The way I see it, it would be far more effective for the majority of the non-genetically predisposed population to be mostly concerned with eating a balanced diet at maintenance (if not overweight) and getting plenty of exercise, which keeps insulin sensitivity high and stop worrying about insulin. It's just doing it's job.
Or as Davpul would say, "JUST WORK OUT!" lol0 -
Have you seen this info from Kreiger?
http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=319
ok, things I'm taking away from this article (feel free to comment/discuss as necessary)
1) insulin spikes are good for performance as it allows (increases?) blood glucose transfer into cells for use as energy.
2) insulin affects/leads to/causes (not sure how direct the correlation is) protein synthesis (technically this is the creation of new protein, but what exactly is that... muscle tissue growth? repair existing muscle? etc), which is obviously a good thing
3) insulin inhibits the breakdown of fat (bad) and increases the creation of fat (bad)
4) insulin and blood sugar do not have a 1:1 relationship (for lack of a better description)... meaning you can see significant insulin increases without the same significant blood sugar increase. However, blood sugar increases always result in a similar insulin increase.
The first point explains why simple sugars result in a greater performance boost than do complex carbs, correct? The article talks about insulin response carbs vs protein, but not simple carbs vs complex carbs.
The second point is what I'm most curious about. Considering whey is highly insulinic (or whatever the word is), is this why whey protein shakes post workout are so popular? Also, wouldn't this point suggest that fasted training would be less effective since insulin levels are lower?
The third point is clearly where all the insulin panicking comes from. But according to the article, things balance themselves out over the course of the day such that times of high insulin level (lower fat burn) are balanced out by times of low insulin (higher fat burns). So assuming a reasonably healthy diet with reasonably intake, this is largely a non-issue, right?
Not sure what to make of point 4 yet... still mulling that one over a bit.
1. Correct. Important if your are engaged in training. Probably not otherwise.
2. As I understand it, insulin is basically a shuttle hormone for nutrients. The research I've read indicates fasted training is slightly less effective than fed training. Both Lyle McDonald and Alan Aragon have written summarizing some of the research on this.
3. You assesment is dead on with those set of assumptions. This is where things get short circuited for the insulin resistant and why they end up storing fat instead of getting adequate nutrients to the tissue as I understand it.
4. There is not a direct relationship of insulin to blood sugar. The issues that can take place relate to overconsumption of carbs leading to metabolic issues like insulin resistance. But, clearly, as I learned when I first saw this article about a year ago (thanks SS) protein is equally insulinogenic with no cooresponding spike in blood sugar.
Conclusion: Insulin is not the problem. It's just doing it's job. Any problem traces back to genetic predispostion and/ or diet composition in my (admittedly limited) view.
Diet composition as in macros?
Yes, exactly. Specifically, ridiculous overconsumption of simple/ sugary carbs. I don't remember the study I read or I'd post the link but it was about a obsese, inactive population that eats ridiculous amouts of sugary carbs, like 400 to 600 grams per day. The was a strong corelation to this level of consumption, combined with inactivity, and insulin resistance. That is not to say that all insulin resistants are in the grouping. For some, there can be genetic or other causes. But in any event, in my view, the problem is not insulin. It's just doing what it's designed to do: shuttle nutrients from ingested food to where they are needed or put them in to storage in the case of a surplus.
The way I see it, it would be far more effective for the majority of the non-genetically predisposed population to be mostly concerned with eating a balanced diet at maintenance (if not overweight) and getting plenty of exercise, which keeps insulin sensitivity high and stop worrying about insulin. It's just doing it's job.
Or as Davpul would say, "JUST WORK OUT!" lol
Agreed... and an excellent point for a lot of people on this site.0 -
Have you seen this info from Kreiger?
http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=319
ok, things I'm taking away from this article (feel free to comment/discuss as necessary)
1) insulin spikes are good for performance as it allows (increases?) blood glucose transfer into cells for use as energy.
2) insulin affects/leads to/causes (not sure how direct the correlation is) protein synthesis (technically this is the creation of new protein, but what exactly is that... muscle tissue growth? repair existing muscle? etc), which is obviously a good thing
3) insulin inhibits the breakdown of fat (bad) and increases the creation of fat (bad)
4) insulin and blood sugar do not have a 1:1 relationship (for lack of a better description)... meaning you can see significant insulin increases without the same significant blood sugar increase. However, blood sugar increases always result in a similar insulin increase.
The first point explains why simple sugars result in a greater performance boost than do complex carbs, correct? The article talks about insulin response carbs vs protein, but not simple carbs vs complex carbs.
The second point is what I'm most curious about. Considering whey is highly insulinic (or whatever the word is), is this why whey protein shakes post workout are so popular? Also, wouldn't this point suggest that fasted training would be less effective since insulin levels are lower?
The third point is clearly where all the insulin panicking comes from. But according to the article, things balance themselves out over the course of the day such that times of high insulin level (lower fat burn) are balanced out by times of low insulin (higher fat burns). So assuming a reasonably healthy diet with reasonably intake, this is largely a non-issue, right?
Not sure what to make of point 4 yet... still mulling that one over a bit.
1. Correct. Important if your are engaged in training. Probably not otherwise.
2. As I understand it, insulin is basically a shuttle hormone for nutrients. The research I've read indicates fasted training is slightly less effective than fed training. Both Lyle McDonald and Alan Aragon have written summarizing some of the research on this.
3. You assesment is dead on with those set of assumptions. This is where things get short circuited for the insulin resistant and why they end up storing fat instead of getting adequate nutrients to the tissue as I understand it.
4. There is not a direct relationship of insulin to blood sugar. The issues that can take place relate to overconsumption of carbs leading to metabolic issues like insulin resistance. But, clearly, as I learned when I first saw this article about a year ago (thanks SS) protein is equally insulinogenic with no cooresponding spike in blood sugar.
Conclusion: Insulin is not the problem. It's just doing it's job. Any problem traces back to genetic predispostion and/ or diet composition in my (admittedly limited) view.
Diet composition as in macros?
Yes, exactly. Specifically, ridiculous overconsumption of simple/ sugary carbs. I don't remember the study I read or I'd post the link but it was about a obsese, inactive population that eats ridiculous amouts of sugary carbs, like 400 to 600 grams per day. The was a strong corelation to this level of consumption, combined with inactivity, and insulin resistance. That is not to say that all insulin resistants are in the grouping. For some, there can be genetic or other causes. But in any event, in my view, the problem is not insulin. It's just doing what it's designed to do: shuttle nutrients from ingested food to where they are needed or put them in to storage in the case of a surplus.
The way I see it, it would be far more effective for the majority of the non-genetically predisposed population to be mostly concerned with eating a balanced diet at maintenance (if not overweight) and getting plenty of exercise, which keeps insulin sensitivity high and stop worrying about insulin. It's just doing it's job.
Or as Davpul would say, "JUST WORK OUT!" lol
Agreed0 -
You can't have a discussion about Insulin without bringing up leptin and ghrelin. Here's a descent article to start this off:
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/control_leptin_and_control_your_leanness0 -
So...
Let's start with the most basic question... what is insulin's function in the body? What does it really do?
My understanding is that it's basically a signalling chemical. It tells you cells when to build tissue. The higher your insulin levels, the stronger that signal to build will be. It is also my understanding that insulin isn't specific to to fat or anything else... that it simply tells your cells to build tissue, and what types of tissue they build is dependent on a variety of factors.
True? Completely wrong? What say you?
I'm a type 1 diabetic and use insulin via insulin pump. Think of insulin as a key and it unlocks the cell so it can use glucose (which food is converted into glucose when digested) as it's fuel. Insulin won't make you fat, too much food and not enough exercise makes you fat. People who take insulin can lose weight, I'm living proof. I was fat because I ate too much food. Period.0 -
So...
Let's start with the most basic question... what is insulin's function in the body? What does it really do?
My understanding is that it's basically a signalling chemical. It tells you cells when to build tissue. The higher your insulin levels, the stronger that signal to build will be. It is also my understanding that insulin isn't specific to to fat or anything else... that it simply tells your cells to build tissue, and what types of tissue they build is dependent on a variety of factors.
True? Completely wrong? What say you?
I'm a type 1 diabetic and use insulin via insulin pump. Think of insulin as a key and it unlocks the cell so it can use glucose (which food is converted into glucose when digested) as it's fuel. Insulin won't make you fat, too much food and not enough exercise makes you fat. People who take insulin can lose weight, I'm living proof. I was fat because I ate too much food. Period.
Excellent analogy! Not just glucose but also proteins. But obviously, the glucose part is most critical for diabetics. Congrats on the self honesty and accomplishment!!
PS: Still playing youth softball at 45??
0 -
I'm a type 1 diabetic and use insulin via insulin pump. Think of insulin as a key and it unlocks the cell so it can use glucose (which food is converted into glucose when digested) as it's fuel. Insulin won't make you fat, too much food and not enough exercise makes you fat. People who take insulin can lose weight, I'm living proof. I was fat because I ate too much food. Period.
This. My son is type 1 as well.
Insulin is a hormone that moves glucose from the bloodstream into cells for either burning as energy or storage. The more glucose you put into your blood, the more insulin you will produce and have in your blood, but it's really just the mechanism, not the input. You can't control it directly.
Your body makes insulin, it's in your blood all the time, and you'd be dead without it, as glucose would build up in your blood unused, while at the same time, your cells starve to death.
Whenever I hear the word "insulin levels" I know they probably have no idea what they are talking about. Your "insulin levels" are far less important than your blood glucose.0 -
This first website will discuss what Type 1 diabetes (aka Juvenile Diabetes) is:
http://www.jdrf.ca/_JDRFCa/assets/File/NSO/JDRF - Fact Sheet - Type 1 Diabetes - 2011 - Eng.pdf
This second website will give you general diabetes info:
http://www.jdrf.ca/_JDRFCa/assets/File/NSO/JDRF - Fact Sheet - General Diabetes Information - 2011 - Eng.pdf
This site is actually from a feline diabetes site, but it has the best description of what diabetes is and the role of insulin in the body:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/diabetes-info.htm
Just copy & paste the links into your address bar.0
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