PALEO: Cavemen diet? W.rong
Replies
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Quite rightfully so but I'd be interested in what you have read that leads you to believe it has no scientific reasoning? What books and online references etc have you read?
Books are secondary resources that are generally quite subjective, and online resources as a rule have little credibility (depending on the source, of course). Primary literature (i.e., peer-reviewed scientific articles published in journals) are the best source of credible, objective information. Do you know of any such articles that support a Paleo diet? (I'll be honest, I haven't looked - I'm just wondering what other people are basing their dietary choices on).
I haven't come across any, but then I must admit that I haven't been digging too hard for any. I suppose you could honestly say that my bias against the radical exclusion of food groups has made it so this isn't something that really piques my interest.
So don't eat this way.
For those of us who find it beneficial there's no need to knock it.0 -
Of course it's being judgemental. Your saying that my diet of protein, veg, fruit and fats is going to need monitoring and that I need luck?
Not sure but I think he's saying correlation =/= causation....AND LOL @ your sample size.
I didn't "LOL" at all. The point is simply that if someone is going to experiment with her diet then she should make make sure that she is carefully logging it and tracking her health. A physical helps with the latter and is a far more objective indicator than simply saying she feels better or worse. That said, she would also need to make sure she controls for other variables such as exercise and stress levels. And yes, if anyone does this then that is a sample size of one, which makes it rather difficult, if not impossible, to apply the results to others.
I don't understand, what is it about eating protein, veg, fruit and fats that you consider needs monitoring?? It's also been stated by many that its what works for your one body...I.e only needs to be for sample size of one- yourself. If pizza and beer works for you then all good but it doesn't work for me
In all honesty this isn't far off how I've eaten for years, I became intolerant to many foods over the last twelve years, I don't find it difficult to eat this way. It's not really an experiment unless you think the last twelve years of my life have been so.
No worries. I understand that you don't understand. If basic science can't be agreed upon then there really isn't much to discuss.0 -
I think this is interesting and I support the notion that 10000 years is definitely long enough for evolution, but it doesn't mean that we HAVE evolved to a different diet - only that we could. I found the information about cow's milk interesting. According to Zuk, only 35% of adults tolerate cow's milk, which is something that I have often wondered about. I think we would also find that most of us don't do so well on many of the enhanced wheat glutens either. These are two areas often scoffed at by nutritionists who work for the American or Canadian dietary associations, but are strongly held as knowns among the natural health fields. I, personally, feel a million times better when I don't consume wheat or dairy, but it is encouraged as part of a "healthy" lifestyle by both the Canadian and American food guides. That said, I like to focus my diet of fruits and vegetables, small amounts of meat (about 10% of my weekly calories) and nuts, seeds and legumes. If being "paleo" works for you and you feel good, do it. If you're getting the right balance of macro and micronutrients, then awesome! Who cares if its evolution or not?0
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Of course it's being judgemental. Your saying that my diet of protein, veg, fruit and fats is going to need monitoring and that I need luck?
Not sure but I think he's saying correlation =/= causation....AND LOL @ your sample size.
I didn't "LOL" at all. The point is simply that if someone is going to experiment with her diet then she should make make sure that she is carefully logging it and tracking her health. A physical helps with the latter and is a far more objective indicator than simply saying she feels better or worse. That said, she would also need to make sure she controls for other variables such as exercise and stress levels. And yes, if anyone does this then that is a sample size of one, which makes it rather difficult, if not impossible, to apply the results to others.
I don't understand, what is it about eating protein, veg, fruit and fats that you consider needs monitoring?? It's also been stated by many that its what works for your one body...I.e only needs to be for sample size of one- yourself. If pizza and beer works for you then all good but it doesn't work for me
In all honesty this isn't far off how I've eaten for years, I became intolerant to many foods over the last twelve years, I don't find it difficult to eat this way. It's not really an experiment unless you think the last twelve years of my life have been so.
Girl, now you are just talking CRAY-CRAY.
Protein, veg, fruit, fats? What works for you? Avoiding foods that make you feel like crap? Eating in a way you find EASY???
You poor thing!
Let me suffer with you.0 -
Of course it's being judgemental. Your saying that my diet of protein, veg, fruit and fats is going to need monitoring and that I need luck?
Not sure but I think he's saying correlation =/= causation....AND LOL @ your sample size.
I didn't "LOL" at all. The point is simply that if someone is going to experiment with her diet then she should make make sure that she is carefully logging it and tracking her health. A physical helps with the latter and is a far more objective indicator than simply saying she feels better or worse. That said, she would also need to make sure she controls for other variables such as exercise and stress levels. And yes, if anyone does this then that is a sample size of one, which makes it rather difficult, if not impossible, to apply the results to others.
I don't understand, what is it about eating protein, veg, fruit and fats that you consider needs monitoring?? It's also been stated by many that its what works for your one body...I.e only needs to be for sample size of one- yourself. If pizza and beer works for you then all good but it doesn't work for me
In all honesty this isn't far off how I've eaten for years, I became intolerant to many foods over the last twelve years, I don't find it difficult to eat this way. It's not really an experiment unless you think the last twelve years of my life have been so.
No worries. I understand that you don't understand. If basic science can't be agreed upon then there really isn't much to discuss.
Or you could answer the question?0 -
Of course it's being judgemental. Your saying that my diet of protein, veg, fruit and fats is going to need monitoring and that I need luck?
Not sure but I think he's saying correlation =/= causation....AND LOL @ your sample size.
I didn't "LOL" at all. The point is simply that if someone is going to experiment with her diet then she should make make sure that she is carefully logging it and tracking her health. A physical helps with the latter and is a far more objective indicator than simply saying she feels better or worse. That said, she would also need to make sure she controls for other variables such as exercise and stress levels. And yes, if anyone does this then that is a sample size of one, which makes it rather difficult, if not impossible, to apply the results to others.
I don't understand, what is it about eating protein, veg, fruit and fats that you consider needs monitoring?? It's also been stated by many that its what works for your one body...I.e only needs to be for sample size of one- yourself. If pizza and beer works for you then all good but it doesn't work for me
In all honesty this isn't far off how I've eaten for years, I became intolerant to many foods over the last twelve years, I don't find it difficult to eat this way. It's not really an experiment unless you think the last twelve years of my life have been so.
Girl, now you are just talking CRAY-CRAY.
Protein, veg, fruit, fats? What works for you? Avoiding foods that make you feel like crap? Eating in a way you find EASY???
You poor thing!
Let me suffer with you.
Ha ha I know, effortlessly remaining at low body fat with perfect blood tests etc eating real foods. I'm suffering terribly not eating pizza and drinking beer. You should feel very sorry for me
I really should seek help
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Thanks for caring what I eat...:noway:0
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Oh, we're knocking diets again? Because Paleo is horrible, but eating generally lower calorie foods isn't. I mean, it's not like both are restricting foods or anything.0
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[Off topic but...]
How on earth do many people learn anything (about anything) if they find something like this too long to read? Wow. Read!!!
eta: fixed typo0 -
Quite rightfully so but I'd be interested in what you have read that leads you to believe it has no scientific reasoning? What books and online references etc have you read?
Books are secondary resources that are generally quite subjective, and online resources as a rule have little credibility (depending on the source, of course). Primary literature (i.e., peer-reviewed scientific articles published in journals) are the best source of credible, objective information. Do you know of any such articles that support a Paleo diet? (I'll be honest, I haven't looked - I'm just wondering what other people are basing their dietary choices on).
I haven't come across any, but then I must admit that I haven't been digging too hard for any. I suppose you could honestly say that my bias against the radical exclusion of food groups has made it so this isn't something that really piques my interest.
I'm pretty much of the same mindset. Extremes of anything tend to raise my "woo-meter" into the red zone.0 -
Of course it's being judgemental. Your saying that my diet of protein, veg, fruit and fats is going to need monitoring and that I need luck?
Not sure but I think he's saying correlation =/= causation....AND LOL @ your sample size.
I didn't "LOL" at all. The point is simply that if someone is going to experiment with her diet then she should make make sure that she is carefully logging it and tracking her health. A physical helps with the latter and is a far more objective indicator than simply saying she feels better or worse. That said, she would also need to make sure she controls for other variables such as exercise and stress levels. And yes, if anyone does this then that is a sample size of one, which makes it rather difficult, if not impossible, to apply the results to others.
I don't understand, what is it about eating protein, veg, fruit and fats that you consider needs monitoring?? It's also been stated by many that its what works for your one body...I.e only needs to be for sample size of one- yourself. If pizza and beer works for you then all good but it doesn't work for me
In all honesty this isn't far off how I've eaten for years, I became intolerant to many foods over the last twelve years, I don't find it difficult to eat this way. It's not really an experiment unless you think the last twelve years of my life have been so.
Girl, now you are just talking CRAY-CRAY.
Protein, veg, fruit, fats? What works for you? Avoiding foods that make you feel like crap? Eating in a way you find EASY???
You poor thing!
Let me suffer with you.
Ha ha I know, effortlessly remaining at low body fat with perfect blood tests etc eating real foods. I'm suffering terribly not eating pizza and drinking beer. You should feel very sorry for me
I really should seek help
The point is that there is no science behind the paleo diet. That statement has been met by anecdotes, shrill PMs and snarky comments. That usually indicates that there is no effective counter-argument. If you have something logical and well thought out to counter the OP, then I certainly would be interested in seeing it.0 -
[Off topic but...]
How on earth do many people learn anything (about anything) if they find something like this too long too read? Wow. Read!!!
Yeah, totally this also. It's a little alarming o_O0 -
I think this is interesting and I support the notion that 10000 years is definitely long enough for evolution, but it doesn't mean that we HAVE evolved to a different diet - only that we could. I found the information about cow's milk interesting. According to Zuk, only 35% of adults tolerate cow's milk, which is something that I have often wondered about. I think we would also find that most of us don't do so well on many of the enhanced wheat glutens either. These are two areas often scoffed at by nutritionists who work for the American or Canadian dietary associations, but are strongly held as knowns among the natural health fields. I, personally, feel a million times better when I don't consume wheat or dairy, but it is encouraged as part of a "healthy" lifestyle by both the Canadian and American food guides. That said, I like to focus my diet of fruits and vegetables, small amounts of meat (about 10% of my weekly calories) and nuts, seeds and legumes. If being "paleo" works for you and you feel good, do it. If you're getting the right balance of macro and micronutrients, then awesome! Who cares if its evolution or not?
I agree that the part about dairy was interesting. For generations, my family has consumed dairy without any difficulty and often joke that it makes us as strong as bulls, yet many people have a complete intolerance to it.0 -
All I know is that I feel so much better without grains, dairy and sugar in my body. I didn't have major reactions to them when I did eat them, but I had no idea how different I would feel without any of that in my body.0
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ugghhh for real.. bump for later.. maybe the weekend..0
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I do not have a thorough understanding of the Paleo Diet. From the little I know of it, the emphasis of whole foods over processed foods is sensible on many fronts. But as a student of anthropology decades ago, to create a declaration on a generalization is flawed. Sustenance of the world's people across climatic regions of varied flora and fauna was as varied then as it is today--in fact a bit more varied, due to the absence of corporate manufacturing and distribution of foodstuffs.
The study of cultures around the world who persist on living closer to land or subsistence economy--foraging, hunting, growing their own food--shows a great variety. For example the Inuit still living traditionally consume a diet high in fat and low carbohydrates. Although Maasai are the classic cattle herders, in addition to meat another staple food is cheese curdled with urine. It is common across many traditional cultures that heavily consume meat, that the muscle is only one of the animal products consumed. Offal and blood are also important foods.
I recall a short anthropological film of the Tasaday. As a group they foraged for meal and members brought back to the group what they found. I recall seeing displayed on a large leaf these things that were to become part of a group meal. roots, succulent stems, a frog, insects. This diet appeared to rely heavily on plants and animal proteins represented a small percentage of their diet. Insects provide a meaningful source of protein for many people throughout the world who live closer to the land--even today.
Many raw-foodist make a claim that their diet represents a paleo diet. And there is variety among raw foodist: some who include raw meat; some who eat only raw plants of a wide variety; some who restrict themselves to fruit. Here again, is the problem of generalizing.
In sum, I cannot say that any claim to a paleo diet is wrong--it is just not universally right.0 -
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I enjoy my paleo lifestyle, you might enjoy being a vegetarian or might enjoy eating healthy grains with your protein. Who cares? It's whatever works for the individual person. However, dairy does make me extremely ill when I decide to have some. I'd rather stay away from it rather than to have to take a pill so it doesn't make me vomit.0
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I don't understand, what is it about eating protein, veg, fruit and fats that you consider needs monitoring?? It's also been stated by many that its what works for your one body...I.e only needs to be for sample size of one- yourself. If pizza and beer works for you then all good but it doesn't work for me
In all honesty this isn't far off how I've eaten for years, I became intolerant to many foods over the last twelve years, I don't find it difficult to eat this way. It's not really an experiment unless you think the last twelve years of my life have been so.
So those of us who do not follow a paleo diet must automatically exist on beer and pizza? Now who is being judgmental?0 -
I don't understand, what is it about eating protein, veg, fruit and fats that you consider needs monitoring?? It's also been stated by many that its what works for your one body...I.e only needs to be for sample size of one- yourself. If pizza and beer works for you then all good but it doesn't work for me
In all honesty this isn't far off how I've eaten for years, I became intolerant to many foods over the last twelve years, I don't find it difficult to eat this way. It's not really an experiment unless you think the last twelve years of my life have been so.
So those of us who do not follow a paleo diet must automatically exist on beer and pizza? Now who is being judgmental?
No it was on his profile. I was only referring to him.0 -
No it was on his profile. I was only referring to him.
Ok. Fair enough! :-)0 -
I don't understand, what is it about eating protein, veg, fruit and fats that you consider needs monitoring?? It's also been stated by many that its what works for your one body...I.e only needs to be for sample size of one- yourself. If pizza and beer works for you then all good but it doesn't work for me
In all honesty this isn't far off how I've eaten for years, I became intolerant to many foods over the last twelve years, I don't find it difficult to eat this way. It's not really an experiment unless you think the last twelve years of my life have been so.
So those of us who do not follow a paleo diet must automatically exist on beer and pizza? Now who is being judgmental?
No it was on his profile. I was only referring to him.
Context. His profile hardly says those are the ONLY things he eats. He eats what he wants within reason. Moderation and all that.0 -
Iron_Phoenix seems a bit hangry.0
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Iron_Phoenix seems a bit hangry.
Lol nope, bored thou. I'm always satisfied 0 -
I don't understand, what is it about eating protein, veg, fruit and fats that you consider needs monitoring?? It's also been stated by many that its what works for your one body...I.e only needs to be for sample size of one- yourself. If pizza and beer works for you then all good but it doesn't work for me
In all honesty this isn't far off how I've eaten for years, I became intolerant to many foods over the last twelve years, I don't find it difficult to eat this way. It's not really an experiment unless you think the last twelve years of my life have been so.
So those of us who do not follow a paleo diet must automatically exist on beer and pizza? Now who is being judgmental?
No it was on his profile. I was only referring to him.
Now I am LOLing. Yes, because I mention in my profile that I consume beer and pizza, I now "exist" on beer and pizza. This is the standard straw man argument of the pseudoscience world: either eat like us, or you eat "junk" food all the time. There is no middle ground.0 -
I think I fell asleep...
I'm not worried about the endless debate of the definition of 'paleo'. Really.
A processed card does not equal a natural carb. <-- There I'm summed up paleo for you. Avoid the crap the food companies try to sell you and buy things likes vegetables.
It's not that hard.0 -
I feel like a lot of people have the wrong idea about this article, and it kind of shows you how offended people can get over nothing. This article isn't bashing the food in a paleo diet, and it isn't saying that there isn't any health benefits. This article is just pointing out the huge misinformation this cult has about how this is what cave men ate, and why blah blah blah, and how this is only what you should be feeding your body, because this is what cave men ate, and our body’s can't process today’s food. This diet really isn't anything new, it just has a new name with a few twists to it, and if it makes you happy to eat it, then eat it, just don't make up reasons why.
Now can somebody post a couple of articles about shakeology, and Cross Fit so we can watch some more people's heads explode, because they feel like you are disrespecting them.0 -
I don't understand, what is it about eating protein, veg, fruit and fats that you consider needs monitoring?? It's also been stated by many that its what works for your one body...I.e only needs to be for sample size of one- yourself. If pizza and beer works for you then all good but it doesn't work for me
In all honesty this isn't far off how I've eaten for years, I became intolerant to many foods over the last twelve years, I don't find it difficult to eat this way. It's not really an experiment unless you think the last twelve years of my life have been so.
So those of us who do not follow a paleo diet must automatically exist on beer and pizza? Now who is being judgmental?
No it was on his profile. I was only referring to him.
Now I am LOLing. Yes, because I mention in my profile that I consume beer and pizza, I now "exist" on beer and pizza. This is the standard straw man argument of the pseudoscience world: either eat like us, or you eat "junk" food all the time. There is no middle ground.
Now don't be silly, I never said that's all you eat, now your taking it out of context! But you consider my diet to be unhealthy. There's plenty of middle ground but you claim I need monitoring for a diet rich in vitamins minerals and macros.
And as you said a few times.....good luck with your health lol 0 -
TL:DR. Snore.0
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I don't understand, what is it about eating protein, veg, fruit and fats that you consider needs monitoring?? It's also been stated by many that its what works for your one body...I.e only needs to be for sample size of one- yourself. If pizza and beer works for you then all good but it doesn't work for me
In all honesty this isn't far off how I've eaten for years, I became intolerant to many foods over the last twelve years, I don't find it difficult to eat this way. It's not really an experiment unless you think the last twelve years of my life have been so.
So those of us who do not follow a paleo diet must automatically exist on beer and pizza? Now who is being judgmental?
No it was on his profile. I was only referring to him.
Now I am LOLing. Yes, because I mention in my profile that I consume beer and pizza, I now "exist" on beer and pizza. This is the standard straw man argument of the pseudoscience world: either eat like us, or you eat "junk" food all the time. There is no middle ground.
Now don't be silly, I never said that's all you eat, now your taking it out of context! But you consider my diet to be unhealthy. There's plenty of middle ground but you claim I need monitoring for a diet rich in vitamins minerals and macros.
And as you said a few times.....good luck with your health lol
Yes, "lol." That seems to be the approach here.0
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