runners' : should I start over again and train aerobic only?
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CnocNaCu
Posts: 536 Member
After browsing Runnersworld, Livestrong and the community I am more than confused and ask your advice/opinion:
I am 53 yo, ex-smoker (quit 16 months ago) and started running at that time. I can run a 5 K in 32 mins and last weekend I ran a 10K in just over 10mins/mi. But during the run my HR went much higher than normal and stayed up there for almost all 10 K (160-164). I felt dizzy after 4K and had to have a gel pack. When I checked the analysis of the run( I have a Polar RCX5) it showed that I did far too much, too hard etc, My doc told me my heart was ok but i should try aerobic training for a while to build a proper basis for later speed training which can then go in the anaerobic zone when doing speed work. I checked many websites and found different approaches to when runners have a high HR. Some say: don't bother, keep running. Some say: it can be dangerous when the HR is at max over a longer period of time. Others say: start over again, do slow aerobic training for 3 months and see if the HR drops and you can run faster.
I have noticed that- no matter whether easy run, speed work or long run- I always run in the higher zones , sometimes at max (which is 168 for me) and I cannot run faster. Another sort of plateau :ohwell:
What is your experience, advice or opinion?
I am 53 yo, ex-smoker (quit 16 months ago) and started running at that time. I can run a 5 K in 32 mins and last weekend I ran a 10K in just over 10mins/mi. But during the run my HR went much higher than normal and stayed up there for almost all 10 K (160-164). I felt dizzy after 4K and had to have a gel pack. When I checked the analysis of the run( I have a Polar RCX5) it showed that I did far too much, too hard etc, My doc told me my heart was ok but i should try aerobic training for a while to build a proper basis for later speed training which can then go in the anaerobic zone when doing speed work. I checked many websites and found different approaches to when runners have a high HR. Some say: don't bother, keep running. Some say: it can be dangerous when the HR is at max over a longer period of time. Others say: start over again, do slow aerobic training for 3 months and see if the HR drops and you can run faster.
I have noticed that- no matter whether easy run, speed work or long run- I always run in the higher zones , sometimes at max (which is 168 for me) and I cannot run faster. Another sort of plateau :ohwell:
What is your experience, advice or opinion?
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Replies
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I'm interested in hearing people's comments on this also, I run very high HR's when I run, just wanna be safe.0
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I'm interested in hearing people's comments on this also, I run very high HR's when I run, just wanna be safe.
That's what I want most: to be safe :-) let's see and wait for posts "tic toc tic toc tic toc
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You say your max is 168. Where did you get that number? Is it from a formula?0
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can you not just slow down? and start working intervals?
i dont see why you would have to start completely from scratch....
also are you sure that your HR level is correct for you? you cant just go by age since what you can do at your age is not going to be the same as what some random 50+ year old can do. sio there's no reason to think you both have the same aerobic capacity and anaerobic threshholds0 -
While I am not an expert on this, I am a cardiovascular nurse .... some people can handle the high heart rate without difficulty, but you were symptomatic with the heart rate (feeling dizzy, etc.) and that is not a good sign. It is wonderful that you can run and run fast, but maybe the truth of the matter is you just need to slow down. My heart rate often gets up into the 160s and 170s when I exercise, but I have no symptoms whatsoever. My husband, on the other hand, feels dizzy and light headed going over 130. Maybe you should have a cardiac stress test to make sure there is not a blockage or problem with your heart, and then you can make your decision from there. But in the meantime, I would slow down the run to slow down the heart rate ...because the last thing you want is a heart attack during exercise. Good luck :-)0
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Hello fellow runner here...I'm a bit younger than you but my heart rate averages in the 160s during most of my runs. My silly age-based max is supposed to be 192, but I have seen up to 188 on my HRM from running (and didn't feel like puking or anything). I've read up a lot on this, and I'd say in general the 220 minus age thing is kind of bunk. Way more likely your max heart rate is genetic (by which my I mean predetermined) and will not change as you age.
Can your doc arrange for you to have a treadmill stress test? I was having some issues that I wanted to rule out as having anything to do with my heart and did that. Got the all-clear from the cardiologist.
Other things - your max heart rate is probably higher than you think it is. One way I've read of finding your max heart rate is to run about 3 miles at your normal pace than go all out at the end and see what your heart rate climbs to. Whatever you see is likely your max. Hypothetically muscle fatigue in this case after running 3 miles will prevent you from overdoing it and doing anything dangerous.
I'm more bothered by how you felt during the 10k. What had your training been like in weeks prior? Were you training consistently? If you hadn't been training well you probably overdid it by going too fast after not having enough consistent training runs. But then could also be any number of unrelated things (sleep, food, hydration). Also, how do you normally base effort on your training runs? Read up on the talk test. Perceived effort is generally a much better way to go than heart rate because until you have it formally tested, you don't really know what your max heart rate is.0 -
Hello fellow runner here...I'm a bit younger than you but my heart rate averages in the 160s during most of my runs. My silly age-based max is supposed to be 192, but I have seen up to 188 on my HRM from running (and didn't feel like puking or anything). I've read up a lot on this, and I'd say in general the 220 minus age thing is kind of bunk. Way more likely your max heart rate is genetic (by which my I mean predetermined) and will not change as you age.
Can your doc arrange for you to have a treadmill stress test? I was having some issues that I wanted to rule out as having anything to do with my heart and did that. Got the all-clear from the cardiologist.
Other things - your max heart rate is probably higher than you think it is. One way I've read of finding your max heart rate is to run about 3 miles at your normal pace than go all out at the end and see what your heart rate climbs to. Whatever you see is likely your max. Hypothetically muscle fatigue in this case after running 3 miles will prevent you from overdoing it and doing anything dangerous.
I'm more bothered by how you felt during the 10k. What had your training been like in weeks prior? Were you training consistently? If you hadn't been training well you probably overdid it by going too fast after not having enough consistent training runs. But then could also be any number of unrelated things (sleep, food, hydration). Also, how do you normally base effort on your training runs? Read up on the talk test. Perceived effort is generally a much better way to go than heart rate because until you have it formally tested, you don't really know what your max heart rate is.
I did a test on my own treadmill to get this HR. At 168 I couldn';t bring out a proper word and felt it was too much to go on for a bit longer.
To get a cardio test here in Ireland when you're not in a private insurance means waiting for many months:noway: So this is not a short term option but I will definitely talk to my GP again. That my HR is not higher must be related to the fact that I was a smoker for many years. maybe I just don't get enough oxygen when running fast.
As for the 10K: I trained every week (easy,tempo, long run) and took it back the week before the 10K, But you might be right with food and hydration. There were no porta-loos and so I drank only one cup of warm water in the morning and then water from K 5 because there wouldn't have been a bush to hide:laugh: And maybe I ate too little. The run was at 11.30 and I ate only a banana and crackers before that (the race was planned for 10 and then they changed it :grumble: )
Thank you all for your input. I will
a- talk to GP
b- look into food and hydration again
c -take it a bit slower for now
Maybe I just have to accept that I did quite some damage to my cardio-vascular system by smoking so many years:sad: I cannot undo that by saying: ok, from today I am a runner and can run as fast as Mo :ohwell:0 -
Sounds like you have a plan! Nutrition and hydration are crucial, as I have learned.
Just my two pence worth, but as a former smoker, lifelong non-runner and very unfit person, the things that have helped my running/ fitness the most have been intervals, hills and cross training (spin). Spin has improved my leg endurance, and allows me to do interval training without too much impact (so any cycling would help with that, if you can). Hill work; hard, but probably the thing that has improved my running ability the most. There were hills that I couldn't even run up slowly, but have 'conquered' over the past few months, and this has affected my ability to run on the flat a lot. Intervals; increasing my heart rate, then having a rest; in my case only small intervals, but it does help.
The result is that my heart rate doesn't go nearly as high these days, and when I do push myself it comes back down very quickly afterwards, all signs of improved fitness. (Of course the downside of that is the fact that i have to work harder to burn as many calories these days, but I can live with that :bigsmile: ).0 -
Sounds like you have a plan! Nutrition and hydration are crucial, as I have learned.
Just my two pence worth, but as a former smoker, lifelong non-runner and very unfit person, the things that have helped my running/ fitness the most have been intervals, hills and cross training (spin). Spin has improved my leg endurance, and allows me to do interval training without too much impact (so any cycling would help with that, if you can). Hill work; hard, but probably the thing that has improved my running ability the most. There were hills that I couldn't even run up slowly, but have 'conquered' over the past few months, and this has affected my ability to run on the flat a lot. Intervals; increasing my heart rate, then having a rest; in my case only small intervals, but it does help.
The result is that my heart rate doesn't go nearly as high these days, and when I do push myself it comes back down very quickly afterwards, all signs of improved fitness. (Of course the downside of that is the fact that i have to work harder to burn as many calories these days, but I can live with that :bigsmile: ).
I will take the info about the cycling on board and definitely give it a go. Hill training is always in my run, I cannot avoid the hills and I 've seen me getting better running uphill since I started running. Also: back to intervals seems to be another good point. I started running with the J Galloway app and it helped a lot. Thanks for your comment and input :-)0 -
i've been running pretty consistently for 2 years now and am nowhere near ready for a 10k. That is too much too soon for me and im 39.
Id suggest running slower or even walking parts if you are concerned about your HR0 -
You say your max is 168. Where did you get that number? Is it from a formula?
the formula for maximum heart rate is 220 - your age0 -
You say your max is 168. Where did you get that number? Is it from a formula?
the formula for maximum heart rate is 220 - your age
This formula is just a rough guideline. I did 3 tests on the treadmill. At 168 I am really done.0 -
i've been running pretty consistently for 2 years now and am nowhere near ready for a 10k. That is too much too soon for me and im 39.
Id suggest running slower or even walking parts if you are concerned about your HR
depends on the person. I've been running 18 months, and training for my 3rd half marathon in a months time.
but to the orginal op, sounds like you are going too fast, go slower, speed comes with time and miles.0 -
After reading your comments and the PMs I got from other runners I am quite sure that a few things came together:
not enough speed work, no proper hydration and nutrition on the day, HR was high but not worryingly high, I started too fast and not in my own pace, I shouldn't push myself too hard and be patient, but I should push myself at least once a week for some nice speed work. I will have a stress test next months (have to pay for it but that's ok) .
Thank you all so much , I love the variety of opinions and ideas, thoughts and experience0 -
After reading your comments and the PMs I got from other runners I am quite sure that a few things came together:
not enough speed work, no proper hydration and nutrition on the day, HR was high but not worryingly high, I started too fast and not in my own pace, I shouldn't push myself too hard and be patient, but I should push myself at least once a week for some nice speed work. I will have a stress test next months (have to pay for it but that's ok) .
Thank you all so much , I love the variety of opinions and ideas, thoughts and experience0
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