Can you gain strength without gaining muscle mass?

ahmommy

I'm generally confused by all of the conflicting information I've read on these forums over the last couple of years.

Some people will say that in order to achieve body recomposition, you need to go through bulking and cutting cycles and that you absolutely cannot increase muscle mass unless you're eating a surplus of calories. Others say that eating at a moderate deficit (~20% below TDEE) and incorporating strength training is the way to go.

So my question is as in my title - can you increase strength without increasing muscle mass?

KyleB65

Bump!

LorinaLynn

Yes. Bigger muscles don't always mean stronger muscles, and vice versa. Look at female powerlifters. Some of them are teenytiny.

Amanda Harris: http://bodyspace.bodybuilding.com/BarbieBarbell/

Staci from Nerdfitness: http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2011/07/21/meet-staci-your-new-powerlifting-super-hero/

rmhand

Yes. Strength is actually very mental. Your muscles do not have to increase in size to be gain the ability to lift more weight.

diodelcibo

Yes if you make the CNS more efficient at recuiting existing fibers in certain time periods.

Hendrix7

Yes if you make the CNS more efficient at recuiting existing fibers in certain time periods.

^^^^^^^^

This, neural adaptation.

DorkothyParker

I think a program like Starting Strength would be a great way to achieve greater strength.

GuybrushThreepw00d

http://www.allthingsgym.com/sets-reps-table-for-strength-hypertrophy-power/

xxnellie146xx

I have been wondering about this as well.

eric_sg61

Powerlifiters and Olympic lifters get stonger while staying in the same weight class.

escloflowneCHANGED

Ok, I don't want to get into a challenge, just trying to understand...so, you can get stronger and stronger and stronger while eating at a deficit? This flies in the face of everything I have learned about fitness over the past couple of years. I'm not saying anyone is wrong, but it doesn't make sense.

Also, I'm in a bulking cycle, my strength increases are amazing. I'm like the freaking hulk right now. It's absolutely amazing to me how my strength is increasing. And, all the guys I've asked told me that when I go into a cut cycle, I'll lose a lot of that strength. So, my question is, is that wrong?

Thanks.

You can gain strength without gaining mass, I'm sure there are some 155lb MMA fighters who could out lift you but they aren't bulky in anyway. I'm sure you would gain strength faster on a surplus though because your muscles have plenty of fuel to heal but that's just an educated guess...

Cyclink

Absolutely. That's what the Strength Development stage of periodization is all about.

It's mostly about getting better recruitment of the muscle fibers you already have. It requires some pretty heavy duty lifting, but you can definitely do it.

It's been a while since I've done it (back in my speedskating days), but if I remember right it was something like 6 to 8 sets of 3 to 5 reps (never to failure, but pretty close to maximum weight) with 2 to 3 minutes between sets.

The plan I was on got me up to an 1150 pound leg press and 450 pound squat when I was 170 pounds. Not the kind of weight that guys my size usually pushed.

ChrisLindsay9

I suspect that genetics (and drugs?) will have a big role in your ability to increase strength without gaining muscle mass, if it's indeed possible. I'm a big believer that you need to have mass to move mass, but there are some exceptions (*cough *cough anabolics).

According to anecdotal (broscience?) information that I have heard/read, you need to eat at slightly below maintenance, keep the protein to 0.75g-0.8g per pound of bodyweight, do fewer reps at higher weight. Supposedly this "thickens" the muscle fibers but does not build a lot of them (quality over quantity? lol).

I have no idea if this is true. Sounds like the kind of thing that people say because it feels true, rather than is true. But I could be wrong. But if you want to try that approach, then keep detailed records of your routines and measurements - and you might be able to provide some empirical evidence to this issue (your n=1 study, haha).

Hendrix7

Powerlifiters and Olympic lifters get stonger while staying in the same weight class.

How?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neural_adaptation

Drugs help also.

I've been doing it for years at a calorie deficit. I have never ever gained the strength like I have in the past few weeks on a surplus. Ever

nobody is saying strength gains in a deficit will be better or even equal than those on a surplus, just that it is possible.

Warchortle

strength can be achieved through nerve training and people have also found to gain strength through calorie deficits and fasting because studies have shown an increase in the body's ability strength as a survival mechanism.

Hendrix7

I suspect that genetics (and drugs?) will have a big role in your ability to increase strength without gaining muscle mass, if it's indeed possible. I'm a big believer that you need to have mass to move mass, but there are some exceptions (*cough *cough anabolics).

According to anecdotal (broscience?) information that I have heard/read, you need to eat at slightly below maintenance, keep the protein to 0.75g-0.8g per pound of bodyweight, do fewer reps at higher weight. Supposedly this "thickens" the muscle fibers but does not build a lot of them (quality over quantity? lol).

I have no idea if this is true. Sounds like the kind of thing that people say because it feels true, rather than is true. But I could be wrong. But if you want to try that approach, then keep detailed records of your routines and measurements - and you might be able to provide some empirical evidence to this issue (your n=1 study, haha).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_hypertrophy#Myofibrillar_vs._Sarcoplasmic_hypertrophy