Intuitive eating.. your opinions?
Replies
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See, I get that. And what you're saying is basically what I was saying in the first paragraph of my original post. I cut out all junk food. I got to a place where healthy healthy healthy was the norm, all I ate was the "good for me" stuff. THEN I was able to lose weight effortlessly. I was still tracking my calories but I wasn't necessarily forcing myself to eat a certain amount every day. The numbers just fell where they needed to be when I was only eating healthy foods. I never had the urge to eat more than necessary.I have read the Intuitive Eating book (my nutritionist recommended it) and I am practicing it. Note of caution: Intuitive Eating is NOT "eat whatever you want whenever" and it is not mutually exclusive with close tracking (I am a diligent MFP logger).
*~*Think of it this way: When you master a skill like piano, you can play with expression and you can improvise, because the "rules" of piano are so instinctual to you . But you can't just mash on the keys any way you want and expect a symphony.*~*
Intuitive Eating is about learning to recognize true hunger (physical sensation) versus appetite (emotional/psychological).
Intuitive Eating is about learning to recognize subtle signals of fullness.
Intuitive Eating is about learning to trust your body *because* of your good healthy habits.
Personal example: I make a point to eat well, healthy, and often (my diary is open, btw). I don't undereat (I'm averaging 1650 cal/day right now). I eat healthy (4-8 servings of vegetables every day, 1-3 servings fruits, whole grains, high-quality protein, etc.). I am careful to ensure that I'm feeding myself the right amount of protein/fats/carbs. I take a lot of supplements to try to avoid vitamin deficiencies. I eat 5-6 times a day so I'm never overly hungry. ..... THEREFORE, when I get hungry before a snack, I trust my body and eat. When a meal does not satisfy, I eat more. Because I maintain good habits, I can trust that if my body gives me a true growl-ache-twinge of hunger, then it is asking for fuel or nutriets or both, and I need to respect that request and obey it.
As I have done this, I had two days in the last two months where my calories intake spiked up to 1900 calories. That was a bit scary for me, but I kept trusting my body. Later when I went back to look at trends, I noticed that the two days after each spike has less calories (around 1,400) and that the weeks with the spike 1900-cal days still averaged the same: about 1,600.
So my point it, our body is very smart and it is a mechanism that is designed for survival and balance, so it will not lead us down an unhealthy path.
BUT, the prerequisite to making this work is to be consistent with healthy choices. In my experience, the best sequence is:
#1 - Establish a very healthy balanced eating routine over an extended time period (at least 1-2 months)
#2 - Start practicing Intuitive Eating
What doesn't work so well is to start from a place of being a mess about food and expect Intuitive Eating to work. Because your body will be in transition, will be confused, will be out of whack... in order to trust your body to be the amazing maching that it is, you first have to allow it to be calibrated to a good/healthy place. So if you are eating too few calories or are inconsistent in your eathing habits, best to work on that first. Learn the "rules" of healthy eating first, then your body can lead you Intuitively.
But remember, it is always a partnership between Intuitive and Good Judgment: When I get hungry, I respond (Intuitive Eating), but I respond with a high-quality, nutritionally dense appropriate food (Good Judgement). For example, I finished dinner 20 minutes ago and I am still hungry and I feel like something sweet. Good use of Intuitive Eating is to reach for a 1/2 cup of no-sugar-added canned peaches or one gluten-free cookie (or one of my other favorites healthy desserts). Bad Intuitive Eating would be to reach for a box of Oreos and munch on them without thinking, without a plan. (I don't even have stuff like that in my house anymore). Even when I follow a craving based on Intuitive Eating, I eat more of the types of things that I have already planned. For example, I might grab one of the 150-calories 15-net-carb snacks I have already portioned out.
Its like dancing: You need to learn the "moves" first (net calories of your fav foods, what your protein/carb/fat needs are, etc.). Then you can create your own choreography.
I hope that all made sense. :flowerforyou:
But intuitive eating says NOTHING is off limits. Foods that I "like" (& often binge on) which aren't healthy for me, according to the research I've done on intuitive eating, SHOULD be included in my diet. You SHOULD keep oreos in the house. You SHOULD go out to "bad" restaurants like fast food places, if you like them. And you should be able to "trust yourself" not to overeat despite being exposed to fattening/sugary/unhealthy foods. & that's the part that concerns/confuses/scares me the most.
Yes, but realize the purpose of that recommendation to keep Oreos in the house if they are a trigger food for you: the point is to difuse any tension you have around Oreos.
For example, you don't have to stock EVERY food on the planet. If chocolate-covered ants are not a trigger for you, no need to stock them. LOL
I think you see my point. If a food has lost its tension for you, and you don't want it in your lifestyle, you'll never miss it. For example, even when I ate fast food 7x a week, I never ate ice cream. I dont' crave it. BUT I love cookies. So..... I now eat 1-2 cookies every day that fit me and my life (I'm allergic to gluten and dairy, so I get non-allergenic cookies that I love).
The point is, it's not about eliminating, but UPGRADING. Trade up your cookies for better ones. Trade up your cake for better cake. If you crave cake, then find or make a cake that has the protein/fats/carbs that fits your meals, and eat some for breakfast lunch and dinner if you like! It is YOUR life, you decide what you enjoy, so pursue it!0 -
See, I get that. And what you're saying is basically what I was saying in the first paragraph of my original post. I cut out all junk food. I got to a place where healthy healthy healthy was the norm, all I ate was the "good for me" stuff. THEN I was able to lose weight effortlessly. I was still tracking my calories but I wasn't necessarily forcing myself to eat a certain amount every day. The numbers just fell where they needed to be when I was only eating healthy foods. I never had the urge to eat more than necessary.I have read the Intuitive Eating book (my nutritionist recommended it) and I am practicing it. Note of caution: Intuitive Eating is NOT "eat whatever you want whenever" and it is not mutually exclusive with close tracking (I am a diligent MFP logger).
*~*Think of it this way: When you master a skill like piano, you can play with expression and you can improvise, because the "rules" of piano are so instinctual to you . But you can't just mash on the keys any way you want and expect a symphony.*~*
Intuitive Eating is about learning to recognize true hunger (physical sensation) versus appetite (emotional/psychological).
Intuitive Eating is about learning to recognize subtle signals of fullness.
Intuitive Eating is about learning to trust your body *because* of your good healthy habits.
Personal example: I make a point to eat well, healthy, and often (my diary is open, btw). I don't undereat (I'm averaging 1650 cal/day right now). I eat healthy (4-8 servings of vegetables every day, 1-3 servings fruits, whole grains, high-quality protein, etc.). I am careful to ensure that I'm feeding myself the right amount of protein/fats/carbs. I take a lot of supplements to try to avoid vitamin deficiencies. I eat 5-6 times a day so I'm never overly hungry. ..... THEREFORE, when I get hungry before a snack, I trust my body and eat. When a meal does not satisfy, I eat more. Because I maintain good habits, I can trust that if my body gives me a true growl-ache-twinge of hunger, then it is asking for fuel or nutriets or both, and I need to respect that request and obey it.
As I have done this, I had two days in the last two months where my calories intake spiked up to 1900 calories. That was a bit scary for me, but I kept trusting my body. Later when I went back to look at trends, I noticed that the two days after each spike has less calories (around 1,400) and that the weeks with the spike 1900-cal days still averaged the same: about 1,600.
So my point it, our body is very smart and it is a mechanism that is designed for survival and balance, so it will not lead us down an unhealthy path.
BUT, the prerequisite to making this work is to be consistent with healthy choices. In my experience, the best sequence is:
#1 - Establish a very healthy balanced eating routine over an extended time period (at least 1-2 months)
#2 - Start practicing Intuitive Eating
What doesn't work so well is to start from a place of being a mess about food and expect Intuitive Eating to work. Because your body will be in transition, will be confused, will be out of whack... in order to trust your body to be the amazing maching that it is, you first have to allow it to be calibrated to a good/healthy place. So if you are eating too few calories or are inconsistent in your eathing habits, best to work on that first. Learn the "rules" of healthy eating first, then your body can lead you Intuitively.
But remember, it is always a partnership between Intuitive and Good Judgment: When I get hungry, I respond (Intuitive Eating), but I respond with a high-quality, nutritionally dense appropriate food (Good Judgement). For example, I finished dinner 20 minutes ago and I am still hungry and I feel like something sweet. Good use of Intuitive Eating is to reach for a 1/2 cup of no-sugar-added canned peaches or one gluten-free cookie (or one of my other favorites healthy desserts). Bad Intuitive Eating would be to reach for a box of Oreos and munch on them without thinking, without a plan. (I don't even have stuff like that in my house anymore). Even when I follow a craving based on Intuitive Eating, I eat more of the types of things that I have already planned. For example, I might grab one of the 150-calories 15-net-carb snacks I have already portioned out.
Its like dancing: You need to learn the "moves" first (net calories of your fav foods, what your protein/carb/fat needs are, etc.). Then you can create your own choreography.
I hope that all made sense. :flowerforyou:
But intuitive eating says NOTHING is off limits. Foods that I "like" (& often binge on) which aren't healthy for me, according to the research I've done on intuitive eating, SHOULD be included in my diet. You SHOULD keep oreos in the house. You SHOULD go out to "bad" restaurants like fast food places, if you like them. And you should be able to "trust yourself" not to overeat despite being exposed to fattening/sugary/unhealthy foods. & that's the part that concerns/confuses/scares me the most.
The only way to not be so afraid and to trust yourself is to get some experience under your belt. As you see yourself making good choices, you will develop that trust.
So keeping stuff at home is a good test. But set youself up for success. Are cookies 50% of a balanced diet, or 5%? Don't stock too many cookies. LOL Plan for success, not failure.
For restaurants, I plan ahead. Study the nutritional info on the website. Call ahead about substitutions for my allergies. Then I often decide what I feel like eating and enter it into MFP before I even leave. Ordering is easy! Or I prepare a couple choices and let my craving at the time of ordering lead me. But PLAN for sucess, and you will trust yourself and your body more and more over time.0 -
What I have to do now to lose weight is very different than what I had to do a 20yrs ago to lose the same weight. The result is that I am really weight now, whereas before I w bouncing up and down. The key difference is what I did to improve a diet that was already whole food centered, so that intuitive eating today is intuitive nutrition and not chasing cravings.
BEFORE: Whole food very grain heavy and minimal animal protein and very low fat and evened banned most fruit most of the time due to sugar content. I created a nutrition profile based upon Diet for a Small Planet, which emphasizes complex carbohydrates.
I could not work-out cardio intensely without creating weight. That's when I picked-up yoga and gardening and walking, so I could do something.
Sticking to a calorie count was a daily battle with cravings. And what I craved were starchy carbs.
There were soft bagels with chewy crusts, and I ate the whole wheat ones plain, so as not consume fat. Hardly ever touched sweets, but I could roll-up whole wheat lavash and eat several plain as snacks and still be under my kcal count. Lavash was even better with a thick layer of vegetarian no-fat refried(mashed) beans and salsa. Never touched chips--but I had ways of making low-fat low sugar whole grain scones, that only I could love. And oh, I saw high fiber benefits as legitimizing the low fat low sugar bran muffins I made and ate.
I was constantly hungry, so the "grazing" food culture suited me perfectly. Unfortunately I was usually grazing on grain carbs and not primarily on vegetables.
Oh and my vegetables I ate mostly plain--even toss salads, so as to avoid added fats. At least I still ate whole eggs.
It took another book for me to change my nutrition profile from carb heavy to something with a lot more fat, Nourishing Traditions.
NOW: In addition to whole eggs, I include whole milk. Butter and cheeses are back on the menu, in addition to more generous use of olive oil along with the addition of sesame oil and coconut oil. I eat a bit more meat. I no longer cook or bake low fat. Yes, I still like sourdough bread, oatmeal, cornbread, rice, faro, and some other grain dishes--but these are foods that appear a couple of times per week and not multiple times in a day. I have replaced relying on grains for my fiber count to incorporating many more legumes and vegetables and a little fruit for my fiber count.
I have learned that grain carbs--even whole grains--is the same thing as sugar in my body. And as long as I am fueling on sugar, cravings rule what I want and when I want it. Today, I can trust my hunger intuition much more, because it is my body talking and not cravings.0 -
You sound so much like me!!!
I have wanted for years to be an intuitive eater. And I've realized that unfortunately I still LOVE junk food too much to do that 100% of the time, because with junk food, I tend to not EVER feel that satisfied feeling. So until I no longer want to eat junk food regularly (and I do eat it most days, in portion-controlled amounts), then I simply cannot be a pure intuitive eater.
However, it remains a goal for me. Some day I will be an intuitive eater. And that day will come when I no longer want to eat junk food regularly.
I believe that for me, the only way to be an intuitive eater will be without regular junk food eating. And recently I was able to let go of emotional eating completely, which has helped with my overeating problems. Now I am able to always stop after a serving or two of any junk food.
So I'm taking baby steps towards becoming the kind of intuitive eater that I know I will be some day.
For now, I want to track my food.
I'm sick of seeing it as so all-or-nothing, you know? Which is what it sounds like you are doing, another reason that I think we are alike. :flowerforyou: It's not INTUITIVE EATING or TRACK EVERYTHING. One can find a middle ground. For me, right now that middle ground is listening to my hunger signals, then tracking what I ate. Some days I'm under my calories, some days I'm over.
Okay, I think that this has turned into a REALLY long response, so I'll shut up now. :bigsmile: Just wanted to let you know that you aren't alone with these thoughts and with the goal of being a "normal" eater.0 -
Tried that around 165 pounds. I quit weighing myself because I believed (from the book) that my body would naturally settle at the weight that was right for me.
Several years and increased sizes later, I weighed again to discover I had ballooned up to 207 pounds. I don't care if a weight higher than that is the right weight for me; I have no intention of going there. The small bones of my feet hate carrying my current weight (about 185) around.
The problem (I think) is that I can't tell the difference between "I'm hungry" and "I feel like eating something". They feel exactly the same to me - gnawing sensation at the stomach, pulling at the throat, inability to get my mind off eating. I'm not much of a junk food eater (bleh!), and I never like to eat a lot at one time. I got big from eating basically healthy foods in pinches and bites and off small plates.
So now I have a meal schedule and a calorie goal. I'm struggling to break the habit of going into the kitchen 50 times a day to get "a little something". If I ever get past that, I might have a chance at normal eating habits.0 -
I always eat only when am hungry. I used to eat only in the evenings for a very long time as that would be the time when I have a sit down home cooked hot meal. And I love to cook so I look forward to cooking yummy meals. I mean for me intuitive eating means being hungry. And hunger for me means feeling like am crashing, weak, like my whole world is crumbling down in front of my eyes etc etc. I know it's a bit dramatic but when am hungry that's how I feel like it's the end of the world. Just writing this, am realising how anal it sounds.
Anyways as I said for a very long time I would eat only one huge meal at night probably around 2000 calories and during the day I wouldn't feel hungry at all. I would just drink water etc etc. But I ended up being underweight as I wasn't eating enough and now I have to consciously make a decision to eat whether I am hungry or not. I run a lot and for a long time I was running during the day without eating that's how I ended up underweight even with eating 2000 cal a day. And plus I eat really clean as I grew up in a farm with everything fresh and organic so that habit stuck with me till now. So that 2000 cal of a huge meal consisted of only clean fresh food which wasn't helping me a lot.
In a way, it's good to eat intuitively as it makes sure that you only eat when you are truly hungry and don't associate food with emotions, moods etc etc. You know like you see food separately from everything else and can deal with it on its own and you don't just eat for the sake of eating whether you are hungry or not. For a very long time that's how I was and still am majority of the time but these days I consciously eat during the day so I don't get too underweight. I joined this site to gain weight and get advice on muscle building etc etc hopefully. I have never associated food with my emotions etc etc. I just see food as a requirement for living; as a necessity inorder to survive. Apart from that, I don't constantly think about it etc etc. Never had an ED or anything. Just the way I am. I love food. I love eating. But I just eat when am truly hungry that's all. And when am done, am done. Can't eat an extra spoonful even. And although, 98% of my diet is clean eating, I still have junk food when I want to, if am going out with friends etc etc . I don't have any restrictions on which food I can have or not. I guess not having restrictions contributes to it as well. Sometimes, even if I have had dinner at 9pm and I wake up at 1 in the morniing and feel hungry, I would still wake up cook and eat it. I don't really pay much attention to anything. Yea I am working on changing that too.
I think a lot of it is to do with my upbringing, that's how we were brought up as kids. There were no set meals except for dinner at night and we only ate when we were hungry.
It's different for everyone. And I guess everyone have to find what works best for them. For me I think it's just a habit and how I was brought up. I am trying to change that and eat more during the day.
Please don't bash me guys as am new here and looking to change my ways lol0 -
That's really interesting.Tried that around 165 pounds. I quit weighing myself because I believed (from the book) that my body would naturally settle at the weight that was right for me.
Several years and increased sizes later, I weighed again to discover I had ballooned up to 207 pounds. I don't care if a weight higher than that is the right weight for me; I have no intention of going there. The small bones of my feet hate carrying my current weight (about 185) around.
The problem (I think) is that I can't tell the difference between "I'm hungry" and "I feel like eating something". They feel exactly the same to me - gnawing sensation at the stomach, pulling at the throat, inability to get my mind off eating. I'm not much of a junk food eater (bleh!), and I never like to eat a lot at one time. I got big from eating basically healthy foods in pinches and bites and off small plates.
So now I have a meal schedule and a calorie goal. I'm struggling to break the habit of going into the kitchen 50 times a day to get "a little something". If I ever get past that, I might have a chance at normal eating habits.
I've found that I CAN tell the difference between being truly hungry and just wanting to eat. It's just that often, I choose not to pay attention for long enough to determine which is which, OR the desire to "just eat" is so strong that I do it regardless of the fact that I know I'm not hungry.
I'm curious, what's your definition of "junk food?" and what's your definition of "healthy food"? I know when I was eating only healthy food, it was extremely difficult for me to overeat.0 -
I can't keep from posting on this thread so much because I feel so passionate about this topic....
Here is what I have learned about CRAVINGS:
#1 - I am not as out of control as I always thought
#2 - I am not as much of an emotional eater as I though
#3 - The issue behind cravings is *physical* rather than psychological WAY more of the time than I thought
Read this post: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/923729-learning-what-true-hunger-is
When you feed yourself correctly, 99% of the cravings vanish! Honest! You don't have to have iron-man self-disicpline! I swear :flowerforyou:
Overcoming cravings and eating in a balanced intuitive way and not being plagued by cravings takes WAY less self control than you imagine. It mostly takes organization and planning, to have the right kind of foods and snacks always stocked up and available.0 -
That's exactly what i was trying to get at... you put it much better than I did.0
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Junk food = pretty much anything from a fast food restaurant, fried food, refined grains, chips, roasted nuts, candy, cookies, cake, anything where sugar is one of the first three ingredients.
Healthy food = whole grains, fruit, vegetables, raw nuts, lean meats, organic dairy (I prefer 2%), fish.
I can eat the devil out of nuts - a whole bag, one tablespoon at a time; those can drive your weight up in no time. And I was probably right about being hungry most of the time since I was eating such small amounts; it never really satisfied. An apple here, a pinch of nuts there, a slice of bread with cheese, a cup of cereal with Greek yogurt, on and on and on and on and ....
Now I put together a meal with about 250-350 calories when it is scheduled, it is more satisfying than a single pinch, then I wait 3 hours for the next meal (on a good day). For me, it's like what the poster above said about cognitive learning. I'm learning what a meal is supposed to look like rather than going through my day pick-pick-pick-pick-pick .....
Oh, and as you pointed out above, sometimes I knew I wasn't eating to feed my body but to celebrate something or distract myself from something; many reasons. I didn't get the tools from Intuitive Eating that I needed to overcome this behavior. Scheduling and learning does.0 -
In a sense that's how I eat now only I'm aware of calorie content. It its soemthing i want, I eat it. I just record everything so I am accountable to myself about the reprecussions. I also take note of how i feel when I have x, y, or z that I've been craving and if I do eat what it is that I want when I want it, I find it a lot easier to eat a more moderate amount of it than if I keep telling myself no I can't have it. It takes time to get used to listening to what your body wants but it can be done.
Actually, you did a great job of expressing it.
You hit on something I didn't realize: Part of "stocking Oreos and eating them" is taking responsibility for your choices. I don't deny myself anything or have anything "off limits" (I don't eat what I'm allergic to but trust me, I'm not tempted - the consequences are unpleasant gastro-intestinal distress).
If I want a cookie, I eat a cookie. And log it. If I want 10, I might log them first and notice that I don't have any calories left for dinner. :P So I might eat one at a time and see how I feel and stop when I've had enough.
I can't tell you how many times I thought I was craving 3 cookies or a whole lemon strudle muffin (from Udi's.... yum!) but after half of what I portioned out, I was full. I've had to unlog stuff from MFP or change the quantity downwards.
If you are really afraid of Oreos or Cake, just eat it three times a day for a couple days. Pretty soon you honestly will feel like barfing at the thought of more than a modest slice.
Here is something to encourage yourself with: You make better choices than you give yourself credit for. MFP allows us to choose something like cookies with open eyes. What are the consequense to my day and my goals? You will be amazed at yourself that when presented with a choice of two cookies that satisfy you and meet your goals versus 20 cookies that gives you a stomach ache and robs you of your goals.... you will make better choices than you imagine.
BUT I don't consider Intuitive Eating to be BLIND eating. I would never put away my scale and MFP and be totally in the dark. I think we can be most in tune with our intuition when our intuition is well informed.0 -
In a sense that's how I eat now only I'm aware of calorie content. It its soemthing i want, I eat it. I just record everything so I am accountable to myself about the reprecussions. I also take note of how i feel when I have x, y, or z that I've been craving and if I do eat what it is that I want when I want it, I find it a lot easier to eat a more moderate amount of it than if I keep telling myself no I can't have it. It takes time to get used to listening to what your body wants but it can be done.
Actually, you did a great job of expressing it.
You hit on something I didn't realize: Part of "stocking Oreos and eating them" is taking responsibility for your choices. I don't deny myself anything or have anything "off limits" (I don't eat what I'm allergic to but trust me, I'm not tempted - the consequences are unpleasant gastro-intestinal distress).
If I want a cookie, I eat a cookie. And log it. If I want 10, I might log them first and notice that I don't have any calories left for dinner. :P So I might eat one at a time and see how I feel and stop when I've had enough.
I can't tell you how many times I thought I was craving 3 cookies or a whole lemon strudle muffin (from Udi's.... yum!) but after half of what I portioned out, I was full. I've had to unlog stuff from MFP or change the quantity downwards.
If you are really afraid of Oreos or Cake, just eat it three times a day for a couple days. Pretty soon you honestly will feel like barfing at the thought of more than a modest slice.
Here is something to encourage yourself with: You make better choices than you give yourself credit for. MFP allows us to choose something like cookies with open eyes. What are the consequense to my day and my goals? You will be amazed at yourself that when presented with a choice of two cookies that satisfy you and meet your goals versus 20 cookies that gives you a stomach ache and robs you of your goals.... you will make better choices than you imagine.
BUT I don't consider Intuitive Eating to be BLIND eating. I would never put away my scale and MFP and be totally in the dark. I think we can be most in tune with our intuition when our intuition is well informed.
This post has inspired me to start logging again. I had stopped since i stress out way too much over the numbers and found myself staying a steady weight despite not logging. BUt I think Ill give it a go again. Maybe log after i eat instead of before, so it's not a matter of planning, but rather i AM listening to what my body wants and just using the MFP log to show myself with the facts what type of choices im making.
ALso, about the cake---its so true. I let myself have two slices of cheesecake after already feeling stuffed at a party. we had some leftover the next day. I didnt have any. The thought made me sick! And we've even been able to keep ice cream in the house and I'll just have a few spoonfuls a day (if that!), whereas it used to be a trigger food that i could go throuhg in an entire night. ANd yet, the ice cream stayed in the freezer for a good 2-3 weeks:-)0 -
My main issue with intuitive eating is that it encourages people to abandon their attempts at purposeful healthy eating (ie deliberately ordering a grilled chicken sandwich when you initially wanted a cheeseburger) and instead listen to their "body" and eat what their "body craves", and people use that to justify eating a burger and fries for lunch and icecream as a snack. I honestly believe it's impossible for a person's body - as in their cells which need nutrition to survive - to want a burger and fries and icecream. Your BRAIN might want it, since those foods cause drug-like effects to be released in the brain like seratonin and dopamine and whatnot. There have been times when I craved something fattening and nutrient void, and instead chose to eat something good for me. I ended up feeling way more energized and all around better, physically and psychologically, after the healthy meal than I would have after the greasy one. A starving body wouldn't say "gimme some pizza". That's all in your brain. People want the pleasure that comes from eating those foods.
And I'm not necessarily saying that's a BAD thing. Eating for pleasure and hunger simultaneously is a good balance to have. But surely, there must be a way to balance this with healthy eating too? A person who's been surviving off fast food and sugar their whole life will NEVER choose grilled fish and veggies when told to "eat what they want". In today's environment, intuitive eating alone wouldn't work for a lot of people, especially not to lose weight. There are too many hyperpalatable foods around and easily accessible that can and will distort peoples' sense of "true hunger" and when to stop eating. There needs to be SOME guidance - Yes follow your hunger cues, yes pay attention to whether you desire food out of emotion or out of true hunger. But when you DO eat, don't dispel everything you know about the foods that are good for you so you can live off the foods you "crave", macaroni and cheese, pizza, and donuts. I think the key is listening to HUNGER, not cravings, and making it a priority to find & eat healthy food you enjoy, whilst still not believe any food is off limits, and allowing indulgences whenever you truly desire it for reasons other than emotions/boredom.
Sounds way easier in words than it would be to put into practice, I'm sure.0 -
My main issue with intuitive eating is that it encourages people to abandon their attempts at purposeful healthy eating (ie deliberately ordering a grilled chicken sandwich when you initially wanted a cheeseburger) and instead listen to their "body" and eat what their "body craves", and people use that to justify eating a burger and fries for lunch and icecream as a snack. I honestly believe it's impossible for a person's body - as in their cells which need nutrition to survive - to want a burger and fries and icecream. Your BRAIN might want it, since those foods cause drug-like effects to be released in the brain like seratonin and dopamine and whatnot. There have been times when I craved something fattening and nutrient void, and instead chose to eat something good for me. I ended up feeling way more energized and all around better, physically and psychologically, after the healthy meal than I would have after the greasy one. A starving body wouldn't say "gimme some pizza". That's all in your brain. People want the pleasure that comes from eating those foods.
And I'm not necessarily saying that's a BAD thing. Eating for pleasure and hunger simultaneously is a good balance to have. But surely, there must be a way to balance this with healthy eating too? A person who's been surviving off fast food and sugar their whole life will NEVER choose grilled fish and veggies when told to "eat what they want". In today's environment, intuitive eating alone wouldn't work for a lot of people, especially not to lose weight. There are too many hyperpalatable foods around and easily accessible that can and will distort peoples' sense of "true hunger" and when to stop eating. There needs to be SOME guidance - Yes follow your hunger cues, yes pay attention to whether you desire food out of emotion or out of true hunger. But when you DO eat, don't dispel everything you know about the foods that are good for you so you can live off the foods you "crave", macaroni and cheese, pizza, and donuts. I think the key is listening to HUNGER, not cravings, and making it a priority to find & eat healthy food you enjoy, whilst still not believe any food is off limits, and allowing indulgences whenever you truly desire it for reasons other than emotions/boredom.
Sounds way easier in words than it would be to put into practice, I'm sure.
I'm convinced that the people that say their body craves burgers and ice cream are just using that as an excuse and they are not at all in tune with their body.
I think you just have to be very honest with yourself and also use common sense.
Regarding nutrition and your body's intuition see point 10 in this list (Honor Your Health):
http://www.intuitiveeating.org/content/10-principles-intuitive-eating
(Sorry I don't know how to insert clickable links so you have to copy-paste...)0 -
...
There needs to be SOME guidance - Yes follow your hunger cues, yes pay attention to whether you desire food out of emotion or out of true hunger. But when you DO eat, don't dispel everything you know about the foods that are good for you so you can live off the foods you "crave", macaroni and cheese, pizza, and donuts. I think the key is listening to HUNGER, not cravings, and making it a priority to find & eat healthy food you enjoy, whilst still not believe any food is off limits, and allowing indulgences whenever you truly desire it for reasons other than emotions/boredom.
Sounds way easier in words than it would be to put into practice, I'm sure.
I think you nailed it with this 0 -
My intuition tells me to drink bacon grease. I tend to ignore it0
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Lmao drink it? I understand frying breaded shrimps in it but...My intuition tells me to drink bacon grease. I tend to ignore it0 -
But undereating one day here and there never hurt anyone. When you look at the big scheme of things, its unrealistic to expect to have exactly 2000 calories (or whatever amount) every single day for the rest of your life. Some days you'll have more, some days you'll have less, and it'll all balance out in the end.Most of the people here are here because of intuitive eating.
Pretty much what I was going to reply with.
One thing to consider - if intuitive eating is eating when you are hungry and not eating when you aren't, if I'm engrossed in a computer game, I can go without eating for hours then have a nibble and go to bed. Great! Not really - I'll massively under-eat and you know what happens then.
I still haven't decided what the best way of maintaining is. Perhaps practising IF regularly and eating everything you fancy whenever you want?0 -
This is exactly what I'm leaning towards too. The introduction of processed foods has made it way more complicated for us to just listen to our bodies. And I think that's why I kind of feel like the "100% healthy" mindset I have sometimes can't be TOO bad, because when I say 100% healthy, I'm basically saying 100% real food. Fruits & veggies of all kinds. Beans, legumes, whole grains, meat (lean & sometimes even fatty). Healthy eating for me is eating everything except sugary treats, super fattening salty concoctions, most of the stuff found at fast food restaurants, etc. I don't see how intuitive eating can really "work" when those things are included. Some limitation has to be placed on those types of foods. Or should I say "foods".You forget how processed so many of those desirable foods are (cakes, cookies, bread) are.
You might get a "full" signal from eating unsweetened steel cut oatmeal, but throw in sugar and processed foods and it hit your "signal's" snooze button. Sugar suppresses leptin production and you will in fact want to eat more.
We are not eating the same way. Food is not produced the same way. Our environment has changed greatly from what is was thousands years ago when those body mechanisms developed. But our brains and bodies did not change much. So this won't work in a modern diet. You have to be aware, read, learn and calculate. Especially if you are already overweight and as one is getting older. That is an unfortunate truth.0 -
I've been logging consistently since the start of Jan this year - I feel like since I am almost at my goal weight and I was never "over weight" in the first place, had just let myself go a little that I should be starting to think about weaning myself off counting calories and going back to instinctive eating.
I am currently having hypnotherapy to help me with this as a lot of my binge eating was related to stress/anxiety and emotions.
I'm just at the start of this so I can't report on my progress but this thread is of interest to me!0 -
I used Google to get to the Intuitive Eating website. I think they have some good principles.
That doesn't mean it will be an easy change or that your trigger foods will suddenly stop being triggers. I haven't read the book or what tips they give for making the principles habit, but I believe they are on the right track to eating sensibly.
It has me interested enough that I'm going to check and see if I can find their book in my library or the Kindle library.0 -
I eat what I want but in moderation. I still have fried chicken, etc... but not every day and I watch what time I'm going to have it. Like today, someone brought fried chicken for the staff for lunch. Yes I had some but tonight I will have something light and make sure that I do a work out. Yearsssssssssss ago when I used to deprive myself, it didn't work. But my methods may not be good for someone who have food addictions or have to not eat certain foods because of their health. I don't beat myself up over this either. You have to decide what is best for you and go for it. Take diet out of the equation and take this as just getting healthy and creating a healthier lifestyle for you. It will eventually pull itself together.0
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Bump...love this thread!0
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I can only eat more intuitively now I'm close to goal. It's taken me a year (on and off) of logging every mouthful on MFP to learn what a healthy, normal portion should be. I don't need to log anymore. I eat more "intuitively" and am still losing. But I couldn't do this when I was overweight.0
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Most of the people here are here because of intuitive eating.
This!0 -
It kind of assumes you don't have any other issues (like emotional eating). I TECHNICALLY could be considered an intuitive eater BUT there are major differences. It's one of those things that works better in theory than in practice. For me, if I want a cupcake, I have a cupcake and then the sugar craving is gone. Most people aren't like that I've learned from being on MFP. While I'm able to eat just one cupcake because too much sugar makes me nauseous anyway, others will eat a whole cake. I think it's better to just limit your "problem foods" or find healthy alternatives. I love McDonald's french fries but I only order a small now. Also, if I get anything with it it's usually a parfait or side salad. That's it. Finding small tweaks is a better way to go in my opinion.0
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Logging has helped me. If I know it's going to put me over my goal, I'm less likely to go nuts, surprisingly.0
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I have read the Intuitive Eating book (my nutritionist recommended it) and I am practicing it. Note of caution: Intuitive Eating is NOT "eat whatever you want whenever" and it is not mutually exclusive with close tracking (I am a diligent MFP logger).
*~*Think of it this way: When you master a skill like piano, you can play with expression and you can improvise, because the "rules" of piano are so instinctual to you . But you can't just mash on the keys any way you want and expect a symphony.*~*
Intuitive Eating is about learning to recognize true hunger (physical sensation) versus appetite (emotional/psychological).
Intuitive Eating is about learning to recognize subtle signals of fullness.
Intuitive Eating is about learning to trust your body *because* of your good healthy habits.
Personal example: I make a point to eat well, healthy, and often (my diary is open, btw). I don't undereat (I'm averaging 1650 cal/day right now). I eat healthy (4-8 servings of vegetables every day, 1-3 servings fruits, whole grains, high-quality protein, etc.). I am careful to ensure that I'm feeding myself the right amount of protein/fats/carbs. I take a lot of supplements to try to avoid vitamin deficiencies. I eat 5-6 times a day so I'm never overly hungry. ..... THEREFORE, when I get hungry before a snack, I trust my body and eat. When a meal does not satisfy, I eat more. Because I maintain good habits, I can trust that if my body gives me a true growl-ache-twinge of hunger, then it is asking for fuel or nutriets or both, and I need to respect that request and obey it.
As I have done this, I had two days in the last two months where my calories intake spiked up to 1900 calories. That was a bit scary for me, but I kept trusting my body. Later when I went back to look at trends, I noticed that the two days after each spike has less calories (around 1,400) and that the weeks with the spike 1900-cal days still averaged the same: about 1,600.
So my point it, our body is very smart and it is a mechanism that is designed for survival and balance, so it will not lead us down an unhealthy path.
BUT, the prerequisite to making this work is to be consistent with healthy choices. In my experience, the best sequence is:
#1 - Establish a very healthy balanced eating routine over an extended time period (at least 1-2 months)
#2 - Start practicing Intuitive Eating
What doesn't work so well is to start from a place of being a mess about food and expect Intuitive Eating to work. Because your body will be in transition, will be confused, will be out of whack... in order to trust your body to be the amazing maching that it is, you first have to allow it to be calibrated to a good/healthy place. So if you are eating too few calories or are inconsistent in your eathing habits, best to work on that first. Learn the "rules" of healthy eating first, then your body can lead you Intuitively.
But remember, it is always a partnership between Intuitive and Good Judgment: When I get hungry, I respond (Intuitive Eating), but I respond with a high-quality, nutritionally dense appropriate food (Good Judgement). For example, I finished dinner 20 minutes ago and I am still hungry and I feel like something sweet. Good use of Intuitive Eating is to reach for a 1/2 cup of no-sugar-added canned peaches or one gluten-free cookie (or one of my other favorites healthy desserts). Bad Intuitive Eating would be to reach for a box of Oreos and munch on them without thinking, without a plan. (I don't even have stuff like that in my house anymore). Even when I follow a craving based on Intuitive Eating, I eat more of the types of things that I have already planned. For example, I might grab one of the 150-calories 15-net-carb snacks I have already portioned out.
Its like dancing: You need to learn the "moves" first (net calories of your fav foods, what your protein/carb/fat needs are, etc.). Then you can create your own choreography.
I hope that all made sense. :flowerforyou:
Edit to add because of stupid fingers: That is the clearest explanation of intuitive eating I have ever seen!! Bravo!! I have been trying to get the hang of intuitive eating and your explanation actually made it "click" with me. Thank you!!!0 -
Most of the people here are here because of intuitive eating.
^ This.
You should use calorie counting to teach you how to live a healthy lifestyle. You wont be calorie counting forever if you really embrace it.0 -
Intuitive eating got me in big trouble. I started tracking and then thought "hey, I am really great at this whole portion control thing, I am going to try intuitive eating again." I gained 8 pounds in a month.
I don't seem to have an off switch when it comes to food- I can just eat, and eat, and eat. So if I don't measure and track, I can easily consume 4000-5000 calories a day.0
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