Biggest Loser + Muscle Gain ?

tross0924

Dr H did say that he checked the results 3 different ways, so I am inclined to believe it.

Ahhhh, but did he check the starting results 3 different ways? She may be at 20 ish percent now based on the 3 different methods, but if there was only one test in the beginning, that one could have been off. Especially since the higher the fat percentage, the more inaccurate the result.

icmuse

She is my favorite, and I would not be surprised if the 19 pound muscle gain was correct. She kicks some serious butt in the gym!

And she is build very muscular & athletic to begin with!
Go D!

11MichelleL

I wish Dr. H would publish a case study on Danni's 19 lb of muscle gain. Then we could learn what was done to find that number -- i.e., the three ways it was measured -- as well as what specifically she was eating and how much time she was truly spending at different activities.

But I also agree that she has some sort of amazing genetic advantage -- sort of like Lance Armstrong's off the charts baseline VO2. It's too bad she spent so much time under that huge blanket of weight -- she coulda been a contender.

Razzy43

I would agree, 19lbs of muscle in 3 months is pretty unbelievable since it does take quite a bit of weight training, not just cardio exercise to gain muscle in that quantity. I workout 4 times a week, strictly weight training and I would say rigorously, making great strides in increasing my weight with each lift, but I haven't put on 19lbs of lean muscle in a years time. I would say maybe 10lbs.

I can see how you can put on muscle in a deficit in their cases. You have to remember, the calorie deficit they are working with is still well over the calorie intake it would be to maintain their lean muscle they do have. Example with the weights they are dealing with. The TDEE to maintain the weights they are dealing with are probably in the 3000-4000 calories, if they wanted to maintain it, but since they are more over weight then what they are wanting to be at, taking off 500-1000 calories, would still be 500 or more calories over what they would need to be at once they get to the final weight they will get to. Hence giving themselves calories to put on lean muscle but still at a deficit to lose weight, or fat. Remember, weight isn't one or the other, fat/muscle, but a combination depending on how you are fueling the body, and what type of workout you are putting your body through.

Greenrun99

Reality Tv told me it was true.. Must be true.

BarackMeLikeAHurricane

They use a dexa scan to fat %, lean % and bone density. It can EASILY be misconstrued that gain of all "lean" tissue was muscle, when increase in bone density due to higher stress, muscle holding water within the cells (we don't know if this scan was taken while Danni was dehydrating for a weigh in) and some muscle actually being built because obese people/former athletes DO have this probability.
But I would call BS on 19lbs of muscle. The best bodybuilders in the world (juiced to the gills might I add) may gain 10lbs in a year.

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I've seen studies where the average muscle growth was 14lbs in 10 weeks with men lifting and on steroids. If you're on steroids you can gain more than 10lbs in a year. I bet a good amount of men could do that natty.

ninerbuff

They use a dexa scan to fat %, lean % and bone density. It can EASILY be misconstrued that gain of all "lean" tissue was muscle, when increase in bone density due to higher stress, muscle holding water within the cells (we don't know if this scan was taken while Danni was dehydrating for a weigh in) and some muscle actually being built because obese people/former athletes DO have this probability.
But I would call BS on 19lbs of muscle. The best bodybuilders in the world (juiced to the gills might I add) may gain 10lbs in a year.

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I've seen studies where the average muscle growth was 14lbs in 10 weeks with men lifting and on steroids. If you're on steroids you can gain more than 10lbs in a year. I bet a good amount of men could do that natty.

Not saying you can't gain 10lbs in a year on steroids. Depending on how long one has been at it will dictate that. The longer, then usually the less they gain.
But natty's have it tough. Even with today's supplementation and equipment, 200lbs for a competing natty is basically the limit.

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Danger2OneSelf

Yes it's completely possible to gain muscle while you are cutting fat, probably even easier in obese people. It can be done with lean people too, I'm personally slowly cutting and have seen some pretty significant muscle mass gains. So I think it all comes down to genetics to growth and how well you're able to control your eating habits and how well you are able to recognize how different macros affect you so you can tweak your diet to your body.

Graelwyn75

I would agree, 19lbs of muscle in 3 months is pretty unbelievable since it does take quite a bit of weight training, not just cardio exercise to gain muscle in that quantity. I workout 4 times a week, strictly weight training and I would say rigorously, making great strides in increasing my weight with each lift, but I haven't put on 19lbs of lean muscle in a years time. I would say maybe 10lbs.

I can see how you can put on muscle in a deficit in their cases. You have to remember, the calorie deficit they are working with is still well over the calorie intake it would be to maintain their lean muscle they do have. Example with the weights they are dealing with. The TDEE to maintain the weights they are dealing with are probably in the 3000-4000 calories, if they wanted to maintain it, but since they are more over weight then what they are wanting to be at, taking off 500-1000 calories, would still be 500 or more calories over what they would need to be at once they get to the final weight they will get to. Hence giving themselves calories to put on lean muscle but still at a deficit to lose weight, or fat. Remember, weight isn't one or the other, fat/muscle, but a combination depending on how you are fueling the body, and what type of workout you are putting your body through.

From various interviews and data, contestants are put on diets of between 1200 and 1800 calories (1800 is generally for the heavier males)

redraidergirl2009

The biggest loser isn't real. It's a reality tv show.

Sarauk2sf

They use a dexa scan to fat %, lean % and bone density. It can EASILY be misconstrued that gain of all "lean" tissue was muscle, when increase in bone density due to higher stress, muscle holding water within the cells (we don't know if this scan was taken while Danni was dehydrating for a weigh in) and some muscle actually being built because obese people/former athletes DO have this probability.
But I would call BS on 19lbs of muscle. The best bodybuilders in the world (juiced to the gills might I add) may gain 10lbs in a year.

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Yes, I thought it would be pretty much impossible, from what I have read here.
I believe that some muscle gain is possible for them, even on a deficit, but 19 pounds seems very extreme and improbable.

But that makes sense for a bodybuilder--they are so much muscle already and are maxing out the amount of muscle they can still put on. I believe new lifters, and morbidly obese lifters at that, can certainly beat their numbers...newbie magic and whatnot.

I wish Sarauk2sf were here...

Edit for comma.
Edit to also add: I think it is, again, worth considering the difference between the crappy parts of the TV show and the interactions with Dr. H. He is an actual doctor, researcher, and professor at UCLA. I don't see much reason to believe he is a hack...as far as TV doctors go...I think he smokes Dr. Oz (gag).

Hi *waves*

There are a couple of things at play here imo.

- there are a number of factors that come into play as to whether someone can gain muscle on a deficit.
- how overweight they are
- gender
- training routine (before and after)
- protein intake
- calorie deficit
- genetics

I do not watch the show, so am not sure how much strength training was done, but assuming that it was a decent amount, then it is definitely possible that she gained *some* LBM. The biggest factor at play here that has me thinking these numbers are highly exaggerated is the fact that she is a female (I have seen studies of guys adding a decent amount in a relativity short period).

- the tests to identify muscle gain are flawed. They really cannot differentiate between muscle LBM and non-muscle LBM. Remember (and I know you know, but this is more for other readers) that LBM is not only muscle - it is everything that is not fat, which includes water. The actual tests/machines have flaws in them in any event that can have a large degree of inaccuracies in them.

I think the shame of this is that the degree of muscle gain they are claiming she has had, which is basically not possible, is over shadowing the fact that she probably gained some muscle and has lost a boat load of weight and improved her body composition significantly.


Does anyone have her starting and ending stats including BF%?

geekyjock76

Although this doesn't relate to Danni herself, Kevin Hall, NIDDK senior investigator, completed a study on Biggest Loser contestants. Here is the abstract:

Diet versus exercise in “The Biggest Loser” weight loss competition

The Biggest Loser television show is watched by millions of people worldwide. Obesity experts have criticized its portrayal of an unrealistic intervention that raises false expectations for weight loss. Here, I quantify the diet and exercise intervention using a validated computational model of metabolism to integrate data on energy expenditure, body weight and body fat collected during The Biggest Loser competition. Participant age, body mass index, weight, and percent body fat at baseline were 33 ± 11 y, 48.7 ± 10.1 kg/m2, 144.9 ± 39.4 kg, and 49 ± 6 % (mean ± SD), respectively. During the first phase of the competition when the contestants were isolated in a boot camp environment, the average rate of weight loss was 0.4 ± 0.1 kg/d which decreased to 0.19 ± 0.1 kg/d after returning home for the final phase. The total weight loss was 58.2 ± 26 kg with 81.6 ± 8.4 % coming from body fat. The computer simulations closely matched the data and calculated that average energy intake during the first phase was 1300 kcal/d while participating in 3.1 h/d of vigorous exercise. After returning home, energy intake increased to 1900 kcal/d and vigorous exercise decreased to 1.1 h/d. Simulation of diet alone resulted in 34 kg of weight loss with 65% coming from body fat, whereas exercise alone resulted in a loss of 27 kg with 102% from fat. Simulated weight loss maintenance could be achieved with a modest 20 min/d of vigorous exercise and a 3000 kcal/d diet.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/oby.20065/abstract


One interesting thing mentioned in the full study is the ridiculously high RMR of the contestants (2700 - which is 700 more than what prediction formulas would suggest). Although their RMR declined drastically upon completion, the average values mirrored the prediction formulas - meaning their RMR ended up being "normal." This more or less demonstrates how demanding their energy needs are when being severely obese.

1ConcreteGirl

QUOTING USER BOKODASHU FROM YESTERDAY

Yay, I did math! I really wish I had her starting BF%, but I couldn't find it anywhere; if someone has that it would make these numbers a lot easier to work out.

She started at 258. Let's say she measured at 60% BF; that would give her 103 lbs of LBM.
She ended at 163, and they said she gained 19 lbs of "muscle" (LBM); that would mean she had 122ish lbs of LBM and would measure at 25% BF. That seems... unlikely, given the pictures I've seen, but ok, sure, let's go with that.

I don't know when they do the initial weigh-in or what the conditions are or how they calculate the contestants' BF; those things would make this easier too. But all bodyfat calculations are based on averages and get wonky when you get to really high or low weights. And all measurements have a built-in margin of error. Using multiple methods of measuring doesn't correct for this, because they're all based on the same slightly-wonky calculations in the first place. So let's go with 4% margin of error, because that's a pretty tiny for all current methods but gives good number.

If she was at 56% bodyfat at 258, she had 113.5 lbs of LBM.
If she was at 29% bodyfat at 163, she now has 115.7 lbs of LBM.

Which would mean she gained 2.2 lbs of muscle in "11 weeks" (could really be as much as 20 weeks, depending on how much the show lies). Totally possible for a big girl newbie.

Lift_hard_eat_big

Even noob gains are negligible, a few lbs, if that. 19lbs in 3 months for a woman, as already stated is impossible, even if she were on the juice.

kazzsjourney

in relation to her BF% Jillian talked about it on her radio show. And she said theres no fat left on Danni and that she would estimate she is around BF 15%. She also said that she didnt think Danni should try and lose anymore just to win the show . I should say she didnt say who she was talking about...but she was talking about the contestent who gained 19 pounds of muscle lol...so Danni.

ninerbuff

in relation to her BF% Jillian talked about it on her radio show. And she said theres no fat left on Danni and that she would estimate she is around BF 15%. She also said that she didnt think Danni should try and lose anymore just to win the show . I should say she didnt say who she was talking about...but she was talking about the contestent who gained 19 pounds of muscle lol...so Danni.

Well, no fat would mean 0%. And if Danni is at 15% (which is a competitive figure model's percentage) she should be ripped enough to see definite 6 pack. I didn't see it.

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ladyraven68

Dr H did say that he checked the results 3 different ways, so I am inclined to believe it.

Cool.

I made love to a sheep 3 different ways.

You believe that?

Well... you are in Britain, so...

That is specifically the Welsh.....

Ahem !!!



(Why do you think all our men wear wellies and velcro gloves)

lanip00h

yeah I want to know her secrets. From what I read it is possible to gain muscle with a calorie deficit for a few conditions...one of them is the person being obese and having a lot of fat to lose. For someone who has only ten pounds to lose...this is not possible. As far as the nineteen pounds go...that is a little far fetched, but she does look amazing and it is very obvious that she is in shape now and has gained muscle and lost fat. I agree with the other post...maybe bone density etc.