The math error with eating calories back
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That would explain why I haven't lost 80 lbs eating my calories back. DAMN IT!!!!0
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The proof will be in the weight loss.
I do eat back many of the calories I "earn" from exercising. I am on a 1700 calorie a day net budget targetted at a 2 pound per week loss. If I eat a 300 calorie breakfast and a 300 calorie lunch, that would leave me 1100 calories for dinner. I like to have some wine with dinner. I know that the only way I can do that and still have a satisfying dinner is to earn some extra calories during the day. That really gives me motivation to get to the gym or walk the dog.
But the proof is that I have been losing pretty consistenly the 2 pounds a week I am aiming for I have been pretty much spot on in my net calories each day, Often I have a few left over and only occassionally do I go over.
Where's the LIKE button ...LOL ........
this is my way of doing it also, and it is working for me most awesomely !!
So how is it working for you? If you are eating those extra calories and still meeting your targetted weight loss, the system is working for you.0 -
Well...if you strength train, your after burn can be about an extra 100 calories a day for the next 3 days. I know this doesn't take into account cardio, but just a thought.0
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This thread hurts my head, and hurts math.
Example BMR = burning 2500 cals per day. So on a non exercise day eat 1500 cals per day to lose 2 lbs per week(generally) (Because 1000 deficit per day is 7000/week, 3500 per pound of fat)
Exercise one day and burn 500 cals. Now to eat them back your total for the day is 2000 cals. (2500 +500=3000-1000=2000)
It is very straightforward. You take your BMR and if exercising add the cals burned for the absolute total for the day. Now subtract the amount per day(1000 per day for a 2lb/week loss) so you are eating at a deficit.
That's all there is to it.0 -
So, let's say you normally burn 2400 calories. That's 100 calories an hour doing nothing, right? So you exercise for one hour for 400 calories... and you eat back those 400 calories. You ate 100 extra calories, that you would have burned anyway even if you were not exercising.
So... I'm guessing MFP isn't right when just adding exercise calories to your goal...
You didn't tell me how many calories I'm taking in before factoring in eating exercise calories.
If I burn 2400 in a day + the 400 from the exercise and then eat that many calories (2800 = 2400 + 400). I come out completely even so.... I don't get what you're trying to say.0 -
You eat them back because you are already in a deficit.
MFP has me at a 1,200 calorie goal. If I did not work out, I would be at a deficit to lose weight.
If I add an activity that burns 300 calories, and I still eat 1,200 calories that would mean only 900 calories are available for my body to use for fuel which is not enough. That is why you are supposed to eat back your exercise calories. Also, exercise boosts your metabolism so even if you eat back all the calories, your metabolism will be helping you to burn more after the fact.0 -
I don't see the point fo "eating back" the calories you burned doing exercise. Isn't the point to lose weight? and from what I understand the way to lose weight is to decrease the input and increase the output. If you are "eating back" the calories burned aren't you defeating the purpose of exercising?
Opinions vary greatly on this question. To me, it depends on how much I exercise - which for the last couple of months - has increased dramatically. If I didn't eat back some of the calories, I would be hungry and miserable - not the mindset I want to have. Your body also needs fuel to exercise in addition to the base needs measured by TDEE. To each their own and do what works best for you.0 -
I don't know if there is an error with MFPs calories.
I totally agree with the 'nothing is 100% accurate' post.
I use an HRM, and always deduct my background calories (i.e. those calories I would have burned had I not been excercising).
Background calories are calculated by dividing your BMR by 24 hours and then 60 minutes..
So mine is: 1440 / 24 / 60 = 1
Luckily for me, 1 is a very convenient round number, and it means that if I do 67 mins of excercise I deduct 67 calories from the total cound given to me by my HRM.
I like this method because I am a geek and like the numbers. I'd imagine that the 'only eat 75% back' works just as well.
Relax :flowerforyou:0 -
When I was here before, I worried about the same things.
"How can I do this most effectively if I don't have a better grasp on how accurate everything is? I have a thyroid condition, my metabolism is slow, I'm not like other people! Every time I put my numbers in a calculator on a different site, I get a different result! AUGH!"
So I did some research, discovered the BodyMedia Fit, decided I liked its published accuracy and felt it was an investment worth making. I lost over 30 pounds with almost no effort.
(I then got bored with being dedicated and rediscovered a love for ice cream. Delicious months ensued, but at a price).
So this time around, I have the BMF and it's all working smooth, and I find that when I run my numbers through calculators--they still aren't all the same--the averages are pretty close to what my BMF comes up with. Being hypothyroid? Doesn't matter (I'm medicated). I am, in fact, pretty much exactly like other people. (What a blow that was, lol).
I still sometimes find myself trying to micromanage, which is why I commented above that I needed to reread lizziebeth's post over and over again.
Maybe getting something like the BMF (or a FitBit, or another brand, there are several) would be of benefit to you, so you can feel more comfortable with the accuracy. Otherwise I think you'll just need to let go a little, accept that the numbers are a little fuzzy, and concentrate on moving more and eating less (in terms of energy/calories, not necessarily volume, of course).
Best of luck to you
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I just read an article about Gross VS Net Calories burned. I wish I had saved the link. The author said basically the same thing. He said that for each workout that you burn 300 calories (or whatever amount), that approximately 20% of those calories would have been burned just sitting on the couch. So the amount you burn for the workout is the Gross, the amount - 20% is the net. He recommended only eating back the Net amount (if any).
So if I eat back any of my exercise calories, I figure up what my calorie burn is, and then only do 50-70% of that back.0 -
My gym told me that the machine's calorie burns and those on HRMs is on top of your BMR so it's safe to eat the whole lot back and in some cases more due to the afterburn/healing process.
Why eat less than you have to? LOL0 -
Bump!0
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I just read an article about Gross VS Net Calories burned. I wish I had saved the link. The author said basically the same thing. He said that for each workout that you burn 300 calories (or whatever amount), that approximately 20% of those calories would have been burned just sitting on the couch. So the amount you burn for the workout is the Gross, the amount - 20% is the net. He recommended only eating back the Net amount (if any).
So if I eat back any of my exercise calories, I figure up what my calorie burn is, and then only do 50-70% of that back.
Thank you, lol. I think people are making it more confusing that it is.
My nice shiny new heart monitor just tells me what I burned during that 45 minutes workout. It doesn't tell me what I would have burned during that workout anyway. So if I eat back everything, I will have eaten more than I actually spent doing that extra workout. Ie, it will decrease my deficit for the day. All I'm saying is that I wish MFP took that into account. I know I won't eat back all my calories from now on.0 -
3rd time i say this. You will burn calories even after your workout (when you take off your HRM).
I already done this math on all this. I sat there with a friend, and an excel sheet, tracking calories per minute burned without exercise, and calories burned per minute exercise.
you subtract calories burned per minute from exercise from calories burned per minute without exercise to get the net. You know what the difference was??? very insignificant. This doesn't account for the calories burned when I took of my HRM my pulse is about 110 when i take it off... It takes time to get down to about 75bpm.
So for the 4th time, it's pretty much irrelevant(this entire topic)
Subtract HRM calories from Actual Calories burned to get the left over calories.
I agree with you that the value of <b>background<b> calories can be insignificant. On your spreadsheet you show that you burn 2.2 calories per minute; when multiplied over the weeks worth of exercise time shown it would equal 649 calories that would have been burned by you during that time had you <u>not</u> been exercising. Perhaps that would have been covered by the exercise 'afterburn', but perhaps not (or perhaps only if following your method of taking of your HRM at 110bpm - what if you'd left it on till 75bpm?)
I know you're feeling frustrated with this thread, but I think your ideas are really interesting!0 -
bump0
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I don't usually eat back my exercise calories anyhow.0
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I just read an article about Gross VS Net Calories burned. I wish I had saved the link. The author said basically the same thing. He said that for each workout that you burn 300 calories (or whatever amount), that approximately 20% of those calories would have been burned just sitting on the couch. So the amount you burn for the workout is the Gross, the amount - 20% is the net. He recommended only eating back the Net amount (if any).
So if I eat back any of my exercise calories, I figure up what my calorie burn is, and then only do 50-70% of that back.
Thank you, lol. I think people are making it more confusing that it is.
My nice shiny new heart monitor just tells me what I burned during that 45 minutes workout. It doesn't tell me what I would have burned during that workout anyway. So if I eat back everything, I will have eaten more than I actually spent doing that extra workout. Ie, it will decrease my deficit for the day. All I'm saying is that I wish MFP took that into account. I know I won't eat back all my calories from now on.
3rd time i say this. You will burn calories even after your workout (when you take off your HRM).
I already done this math on all this. I sat there with a friend, and an excel sheet, tracking calories per minute burned without exercise, and calories burned per minute exercise.
you subtract calories burned per minute from exercise from calories burned per minute without exercise to get the net. You know what the difference was??? very insignificant. This doesn't account for the calories burned when I took of my HRM my pulse is about 110 when i take it off... It takes time to get down to about 75bpm.
So for the 4th time, it's pretty much irrelevant(this entire topic)
Subtract HRM calories from Actual Calories burned to get the left over calories.
do you have a template of this, or can you tell me what formulas you used?0 -
The only question that matters is.. Am I losing weight? The answer is.. Yes, I am..0
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I don't see the point fo "eating back" the calories you burned doing exercise. Isn't the point to lose weight? and from what I understand the way to lose weight is to decrease the input and increase the output. If you are "eating back" the calories burned aren't you defeating the purpose of exercising?
That's 'cuz you don't understand how this tool works...probably because you didn't read the directions or anything...you know, the stickies they tell you to read when you sign up. Don't feel bad, pretty typical...just too much work I'm sure to find out how a particular tool works.0 -
I don't see the point fo "eating back" the calories you burned doing exercise. Isn't the point to lose weight? and from what I understand the way to lose weight is to decrease the input and increase the output. If you are "eating back" the calories burned aren't you defeating the purpose of exercising?
That's 'cuz you don't understand how this tool works...probably because you didn't read the directions or anything...you know, the stickies they tell you to read when you sign up. Don't feel bad, pretty typical...just too much work I'm sure to find out how a particular tool works.
I'm not the OP, but I don't think it's as clear as all that. MFP happens to be set up so that you eat the exercise calories back, but not all calorie controlled diets work like that.
To explain:
MFP has a figure for your daily calorie burn WITHOUT exercise. Let's say 2500 calories a day.
It then subtracts a number of calories depending on how quick you want to lose weight. For a 2 pounds a week loss it would subract 1000 calories (counting 3500 calories for each pound lost), so you would have a goal of 1500 calories.
You are then supposed to keep that deficit (1000) calories the same. So if you did, say, 300 calories of exercise, your calorie burn for that day would be 2800 instead of 2500. You would then want to eat 1800 instead of 1500 to have the same 1000 calorie deficit.
I don't think MFP does explain it clearly. One complication is that it asks how much you plan to exercise, and I think some people think this means that your exercise is already accounted for in your goal. In fact, MFP gives the same goal no matter how much exercise you add in your goals. It only changes when you add exercise in your diary. To be honest, I joined the site ages ago and I don't remember being told to read certain stickies, so it's quite possible for somebody to sign up and then have forgotten the information. I know that now that I'm signed up, the site doesn't point me to any particular information on how it works.0 -
I don't see the point fo "eating back" the calories you burned doing exercise. Isn't the point to lose weight? and from what I understand the way to lose weight is to decrease the input and increase the output. If you are "eating back" the calories burned aren't you defeating the purpose of exercising?
You will still lose weight, because if you follow MFP suggestion for calories, a deficit it already built in that will enable you to lose weight. If you did a lot of exercise and didn't eat back the calories, your deficit would simply be too low. (I tried that and my weightloss stalled).0 -
The only question that matters is.. Am I losing weight? The answer is.. Yes, I am..
Whilst I agree with everyrthing Pu has said, life is too short and the difference is too little to worry about. This is the answer for me! 0 -
It seems like you're doing fine, you've already lost 23lbs. So, whatever you're doing it's working. Keep up the good work!0
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EPOC - Excess Post-exercise Oxygen Consumption, aka, The Afterburn Effect:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/19/health/nutrition/19best.html?_r=0
" Dr. Knab and her colleagues recruited 10 men, ages 22 to 33, who agreed to spend two periods of 24 hours each in a metabolic chamber, a small room that measures the calories people burn while they are inside. The men were not all athletes, but they did have to be able to ride a bike vigorously. On the first visit to the chamber, the subjects had to stay perfectly still, sitting in a chair and moving only to eat meals, which were sent in through an air lock. In the afternoon, they were permitted a two-minute stretch every hour. Bedtime was 10:30 p.m. At 6:30 the next morning, the subjects were awakened and allowed to leave. They burned, on average, 2,400 calories on this totally sedentary day.
The second visit to the chamber came two days later. Everything was the same, with one exception. At 11 a.m., the subjects rode a stationary bicycle at a high intensity for 45 minutes. The exercise itself burned about 420 calories, Dr. Knab and her colleagues reported. But what was most interesting was the calories burned afterward. Over the next 14 hours, the men burned an extra 190 calories, increasing the total calories burned by 37 percent.
“We were surprised,” Dr. Knab said. She thought there might be extra calories burned, but she did not expect so many, nor did she expect the effect to last so long. She suspects one reason she saw such a pronounced effect was that the exercise was so intense. The subjects had had to cycle at 70 percent of their so-called VO2 max, the maximum amount of oxygen a person’s body can take in during exercise — an effort that made them breathe too heavily to carry on a conversation. And they had to keep it up for 45 minutes.
and,
http://greatist.com/fitness/afterburn-effect-keep-burning-calories-after-workout0 -
I generally trust the MFP exercise figures because they match fairly closely with the ones on the exercise machines I use, which are calculated based on my weight. So I don't worry too much.0
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. Being hypothyroid? Doesn't matter (I'm medicated). I am, in fact, pretty much exactly like other people. (What a blow that was, lol).
I love this. I'm so sick of people using the thyroid excuse. I'm down nearly 13kg this time, and i lost over 20 last time. The only time my thyroid affects my weightloss is when I change my meds and it readjusts. Did it last week, a week of digestive issues and weighing high, and now i'm back to where i was BECAUSE I KEPT GOING.
Your thyroid does NOT stop you losing weight. It can make you feel tired or unwell which can be used as an excuse. An excuse. NOT a reason.
If you're overweight, eating wrong, not excercising, and you blame your thyroid, and you're medicated, you are making excuses. I take 1000 mcg of levo a week PLUS kelp PLUS coconut PLUS I workout and eat right and mine isn't a factor. My doctor says he wishes I was authorised to deliver seminars on this topic :laugh:0 -
OP Have you had your BMR tested to know exactly what it is. Do you eat only fresh fruit and veges because you can't trust that nutritional information on packets to be correct, Do you wear a HRM to know exactly what you burn? it's all just estimates . stop sweating the small stuff. The program has worked for many of people regardless of whether MFP logs your exercise as net or gross.0
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I don't subtract the 100 cals I would have burned without exercise because my heart rate is usually elevated from the resting rate for a while after exercise. My hunch is that the math evens out in the end.
EAT YOUR CALORIES BACK: The system is designed to eat calories back, because that net figure already includes a certain weight loss. Many times it won't make much of a difference--if you set your deficit to lose 1lb. a week (500 cal deficit from total daily energy expenditure, or TDEE) then log 500 in exercise, you're just at a 1,000cal deficit for the day which is a 2 lb. loss per week.
However: The danger is when you consistently exceed a 1,000 deficit to TDEE, which could result in a loss of muscle mass.
And when you lose muscle, you lower your TDEE--every pound of muscle sheds 50 more calories per day than a pound of fat. So while successful initially, overrestriction on calories makes it much harder for one to lose weight down the line. Loss of muscle also results in injury, which can derail your weight loss journey at any point. Better to play it safe and eat your calories back.
The name of the game is proper nutrition at a deficit--not running the numbers and seeing how large a deficit you can rack up for the day.0 -
The whole system is only as accurate as its least accurate component, much like rounding in math equations. You're trying to get a number to the fourth decimal point when your components are only to the first. Just be happy with a slightly less than perfect system.
Listen to your body in addition to MFP - if you find yourself inching closer to your destination, then I don't think you need to get nitpicky with the system.
(That said, it was a good question and I enjoy the discussion that has ensued!)0 -
I think that this is a valid mathematical point, if MFP does generate gross numbers on burn. However, we're also starting from a sedentary baseline. Some of us may truly be sedentary, but I would guess that every day walking and other tasks make up for the 50+/- calories that the system's double counting. Then there is EPOC too.
Let's say my BMR is 1200. That's only 50 calories an hour -- let's even call it 75 in the daytime and 25 at night. So even an hour-long workout isn't double counting all that much.0
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