Points based diets...

datguy2011

Hey All,

I'm just curious if anyone has an opinion regarding this type of diet. I play hockey at a high level and our team has just recently introduced a doctor/nutritionist that recommends cutting down the eating by logging points. His system is similar to Weight Watchers from what I have read... I have never done this in the past... simple calorie counting, but that's about it.

So now I'm curious of other's opinions...

Were you hungry during the process? If so, did it regulate itself...?
I noticed that fruits/veggies are 0 points, except for a couple of exceptions... Odd?
I'm sure there is a way to gain back points?

Anyways if anyone has tips or anything they could offer, please let me know...

Cheers,

tricksee

Points is just another way of calculating a calorie deficit.

People need to stop making weight-loss more complicated than it actually is.

helenlucyburns

Having done weight watchers myself the only difference I've found is that points can take into account whether a food is good for you or not, not JUST what calories it contains... so whilst you could maintain a calorie deficit on MFP by eating three slices of 500 caloris cake a day, ww wouldn't allow you to accomodate this in points, so you're not just loing weight but you're improving your eating as well, if you can be bothered with the points that is, which I couldn't

TavistockToad

its just a different way of counting calories... some people like it better, some dont. most poeple that i know have done really well on it, until they stop counting....

and i have never understood the fruit and veg have no points thing at all...

trogalicious

Points is just another way of calculating a calorie deficit.

People need to stop making weight-loss more complicated than it actually is.

Bingo. Doesn't matter if you call them points, or calories, or give them their own name... as long as you're burning more than you're consuming, you'll lose weight.

Don't change what works for you because some random dude tells you to. Sounds like someone with their own system, trying to make a sell to me.

NovemberJune

Points is just another way of calculating a calorie deficit.

People need to stop making weight-loss more complicated than it actually is.

I agree with Tricksee

datguy2011

Yeah thanks for the heads up... its a team thing and I haven't quite bought into it. I Guess im also curious why people spend money on WW then? if you can make your own system at home?! I don't quite get it....

I never thought of it that way either, I guess I could eat 5 pieces of cake for 1500 cals and that would be my day! lol but yeah, the point system wouldn't allow for that.

I also have to get into the habit of pre planning my meals, which doesn't always work due to travel, but I can give it a shot.

louiseshaw88

Points is just another way of calculating a calorie deficit.

People need to stop making weight-loss more complicated than it actually is.

For some people this way is easier (by the sound of the norrow mindedness i'm guessing your one of those people) - calories alone are not the bee all and end all of being healthy and losing weight - most people (mainly women aged 30-60) who attend points based system classes would think "oh i'll go on a diet and eat salads all day every day" they then become bored of this approach so go back to eating crap - these systems take into account saturated fat and other things counting calories won't - it allows them to have a balaced diet working the nutritional stuff out for them meaning they only have to count points.

datguy2011

Points is just another way of calculating a calorie deficit.

People need to stop making weight-loss more complicated than it actually is.

For some people this way is easier (by the sound of the norrow mindedness i'm guessing your one of those people) - calories alone are not the bee all and end all of being healthy and losing weight - most people (mainly women aged 30-60) who attend points based system classes would think "oh i'll go on a diet and eat salads all day every day" they then become bored of this approach so go back to eating crap - these systems take into account saturated fat and other things counting calories won't - it allows them to have a balaced diet working the nutritional stuff out for them meaning they only have to count points.

Fair enough... its just a different way of counting... that allows for different choices. I think it's more based on a YES or NO factor... instead of a 1600cals or less factor.

JustMQ

Counting points is the same thing as counting calories. When I was on WW I found I didn't always choose the most nutritious foods because I wanted to feel like I was eating more. Since I have quit WW and joined MFP, I am finding I wasn't eating enough on WW. I was always hungry! This caused major problems because I would turn to binging. "Starve" myself on 1200 cals per day then get fed up and eat 5 cookies! I do much better by following IIFYM.
I don't really understand why this nutritionist wants to implement this way of eating for someone who plays competitive hockey. Just be careful and make sure you're eating enough or you just wont have the energy to actually be competitive.

tigermom12

I am a former WW'er and it is basically the same but then again it's not...for me anyways it's not. I was always hungry on WW and only paid attention to the point values of food. I feel that there is so much more involved like protein, carbs, sodium, sugar, etc. Since starting MFP, I have become more away of what I am eating and I'm not hungry on this way of eating. I have found that I am eating much cleaner foods instead of all the processed stuff. Sure I could have done that on WW but you kind of get focused soley on the points.

louiseshaw88

I was just talking about WW target market which is women aged from 30-60 for these women it is easier to be shown how to lose weight than trying to find out the info themselves - Its the group support thats valuble - these women will have been cooking the same way with the same food for years I think WW encourages them to eat the same food but cook it a different way and not having 3 glasses of wine a night just 1 every other day - they also allow to you save your points so your able to have a takeaway on a weekend and not feel terrible

BunkyBumBum

I did WW 3 years ago. I lost 65 pounds in the first year (old points system), then they switched to the new points system where fruits and veggies are free and I stopped losing. I lost 10 pounds after that (due to stress in my life at the time), which I gained back, but the 65 I lost on WW is still gone.

I tried to go back to WW to lose my last 15 and I wasn't getting anywhere. The new points system just doesn't work for my body for whatever reason. What's even stranger is that I kept gaining and losing exactly 1.6 pounds - it was to the point that I was looking at which scale I was weighing in on because I didn't think it was possible to gain and lose exactly 1.6 pounds every week. The scale didn't matter. Weird, eh?

So... why did I do WW instead of counting calories? It was easier. Everything in my pantry had a number on it, and I could tally it all up in my head (adding 2 points plus 4 points plus 3 points is a lot easier than adding 135 calories plus 270 calories plus 540 calories). Having the support group helped a lot too. I went every week to get weighed in and listen to my meeting, which was instrumental in keeping me on track. I felt like if I didn't stay on track and I gained weight my meeting leader would know and it just sort of kept my head in the game. Why did I even start WW? Because my best friend from high school, who was always a bit overweight but who had gained a ton since then, came to visit and she looked freaking great. She lost 100 pounds and went from being just your average overweight midwest woman to running marathons. I figured if she could do it on WW, I could too.

If you're not going to meetings, and if you're not in need of that support group, and if you can keep yourself eating healthy and not garbage, then I don't see the point in doing WW as long as you're tracking calories and are eating a well balanced diet.

BUT - it does work for a lot of people. It gave me the start I needed and if anyone is ever on the fence about it where calorie counting failed them for whatever reason, it's worth a try.

tricksee

(by the sound of the narrow mindedness i'm guessing your one of those people)

Thanks for the insult.

louiseshaw88

(by the sound of the narrow mindedness i'm guessing your one of those people)

Thanks for the insult.

Anytime - wasn't meant as an insult as such but i've seen a few of your comments and they seem to focus on the fact that you find the whole calorie deficit thing easy to understand and if someone else tries to make sense of it a differet way or they try a method different to the deficit then their not worth listening to or their wrong - sorry if you have taken any offence

tricksee

Anytime - wasn't meant as an insult as such but i've seen a few of your comments and they seem to focus on the fact that you find the whole calorie deficit thing easy to understand and if someone else tries to make sense of it a differet way or they try a method different to the deficit then their not worth listening to or their wrong - sorry if you have taken any offence

haha, it's all good. no offence taken really. Good luck with your goals and keep up the good work!

datguy2011

Thanks everyone, you bring some up valid points that I had overseen....

I'm still considering it. I might take on the challenge for a few weeks to see if that helps me personally. The doctor gave me a calculator for gaining/losing points ,etc, etc...

baileybiddles

Hey All,

I'm just curious if anyone has an opinion regarding this type of diet. I play hockey at a high level and our team has just recently introduced a doctor/nutritionist that recommends cutting down the eating by logging points. His system is similar to Weight Watchers from what I have read... I have never done this in the past... simple calorie counting, but that's about it.

So now I'm curious of other's opinions...

Were you hungry during the process? If so, did it regulate itself...?
I noticed that fruits/veggies are 0 points, except for a couple of exceptions... Odd?
I'm sure there is a way to gain back points?

Anyways if anyone has tips or anything they could offer, please let me know...

Cheers,

I started weight watchers in October of 2012 and quit last weekend. I'll explain to you exactly why I quit and why I am here now, and also, why I loved it.

For one thing, you are right. Fruits and vegetables are "free". This part was the part that I loved so very much. If I was hungry (which I was fairly often, but not starving by any stretch of the imagination), I could reach for a banana, or an apple, or a handful of berries and it didn't count. At all, ever, in this world, it did not count. I loved that. It encouraged me to reach for healthy snacks instead of unhealthy snacks when I was hungry.

You are also right about exceptions. For example, potatoes and avocados are NOT free. This is because potatoes are incredibly high in starch and avocados are incredibly high in fat. Points are not calculated based on calories; they are calculated based on fat, protein, carbs and fiber of whatever you're eating.

You gain back points by exercising, just like you gain calories back by doing the same. However, you gain back less points than you do calories. It is frustrating to do a long hours worth of yoga or cardio and only get back 3 points.

I hated weight watchers because it forced me to cut out many of my favorite foods. Peanut butter, for example, is 6 points for a mere 2 tbsp. To put this into perspective, I was given 32 points per day, which sounds like a lot but it's really not when you break it down. I also cut out beef jerky which is about 9 points per tiny little serving, a snack that is full of protein (and sodium, I know). A chicken breast is 7 points. It's just a lot.

I did love, however, that I could load up my plate with vegetables and have a mountain of food and not have to count the veggies.

There are things to love and things to hate. Me personally? I prefer counting calories.

CM9178

Having done weight watchers myself the only difference I've found is that points can take into account whether a food is good for you or not, not JUST what calories it contains... so whilst you could maintain a calorie deficit on MFP by eating three slices of 500 caloris cake a day, ww wouldn't allow you to accomodate this in points, so you're not just loing weight but you're improving your eating as well, if you can be bothered with the points that is, which I couldn't

I agree, foods that are better for you are going to tend to be lower in points. So it makes it easier for some people to make healthier food choices, so they can eat MORE food.
As for fruit being 0 points, that is taken into consideration when your daily points target is calculated. It is also assumed that you are only going to eat 2 to 3 servings of those fruits per day - in moderation - instead of eating 1000 calories worth of fruit because it is "free".

I have used Weight Watchers in the past and was very successful and I have been very successful with it again over the last year (lost 40 pounds). There are MANY misconceptions about the free fruit thing - and that is why MANY people who have followed this new plan have not been successful. If you don't understand how it works and exactly what you are supposed to be doing, you are going to fail at Weight Watchers.

I have also not had to eliminate ANY of my favorite foods while following Weight Watchers - because - it is the SAME as counting calories on here. I can eat whatever I want - IN MODERATION. If I want pizza, I can eat pizza. If I want peanut butter, I can eat it. But I need to plan my points/calories around those foods for the day, so I don't go over. It really isn't rocket science.

montana_girl

So... why did I do WW instead of counting calories? It was easier. Everything in my pantry had a number on it, and I could tally it all up in my head (adding 2 points plus 4 points plus 3 points is a lot easier than adding 135 calories plus 270 calories plus 540 calories). Having the support group helped a lot too. I went every week to get weighed in and listen to my meeting, which was instrumental in keeping me on track. I felt like if I didn't stay on track and I gained weight my meeting leader would know and it just sort of kept my head in the game. Why did I even start WW? Because my best friend from high school, who was always a bit overweight but who had gained a ton since then, came to visit and she looked freaking great. She lost 100 pounds and went from being just your average overweight midwest woman to running marathons. I figured if she could do it on WW, I could too.

If you're not going to meetings, and if you're not in need of that support group, and if you can keep yourself eating healthy and not garbage, then I don't see the point in doing WW as long as you're tracking calories and are eating a well balanced diet.

BUT - it does work for a lot of people. It gave me the start I needed and if anyone is ever on the fence about it where calorie counting failed them for whatever reason, it's worth a try.

^^ I could have written this! LOL

I lost over 100 pounds on WW, but the PointsPlus (when they introduced zero point fruits and veggies) caused me to gain weight. I still attend meeting weekly because I need the support and accountibility of the meetings. So basically, I follow the WW program except I count calories instead of points.

But to answer your questions... the points system is a great way to learn to eat healthier. For most people, they don't need to learn how to do this. But for people like me that had no clue about what I should be eating daily and what I should eat in moderation or only occasionally, it was a great way to get learn.

datguy2011

See, now the PointsPlus system has caused me to lose alot of weight!!!! but that makes a huge difference when you DONT EAT VEGGIES and FRUITS ever! ... and now in the last two weeks.. its been non-stop.

tazzy2911

I joined ww in January and have list 20lbs. I've lost weight every week without starving myself. I've still gone out every weekend and eaten out or had a takeaway but it's just about making the healthier choices. I like ww because it's not a diet, it's a lifestyle change. And on the free fruit and veg issue...my ww leader rightly pointed out last week that I didn't get fat from eating too many apples!

fattyfoodie

From my perspective, the benefits of a points based system are that the number of points (for example 26) is more tangible than 1800 calories. I also really like going to the meetings- I go to Weight Watchers at Work and we have a great group who celebrate successes and support through failures.

To answer your questions:

No, I am rarely truly hungry. I have adequate points to feed myself through the day and frequently snack on vegetables.

The 0 points for fruit and veg is with the caveat that you eat them within reason- 5-7 servings a day. It encourages the consumption of these foods and is built in to the number of points that you get. So for example if you are allowed 26 points a day, if fruit and veg had a points value you would probably get 32 points a day (assuming a point per serving of fruit/veg). However by making them void of points it encourages people to eat them rather than using those points on foods with lesser nutritional value.

You can earn extra bonus points through exercise. You also get 49 bonus points per week to use for indulgences.

BunkyBumBum

So... why did I do WW instead of counting calories? It was easier. Everything in my pantry had a number on it, and I could tally it all up in my head (adding 2 points plus 4 points plus 3 points is a lot easier than adding 135 calories plus 270 calories plus 540 calories). Having the support group helped a lot too. I went every week to get weighed in and listen to my meeting, which was instrumental in keeping me on track. I felt like if I didn't stay on track and I gained weight my meeting leader would know and it just sort of kept my head in the game. Why did I even start WW? Because my best friend from high school, who was always a bit overweight but who had gained a ton since then, came to visit and she looked freaking great. She lost 100 pounds and went from being just your average overweight midwest woman to running marathons. I figured if she could do it on WW, I could too.

If you're not going to meetings, and if you're not in need of that support group, and if you can keep yourself eating healthy and not garbage, then I don't see the point in doing WW as long as you're tracking calories and are eating a well balanced diet.

BUT - it does work for a lot of people. It gave me the start I needed and if anyone is ever on the fence about it where calorie counting failed them for whatever reason, it's worth a try.

^^ I could have written this! LOL

I lost over 100 pounds on WW, but the PointsPlus (when they introduced zero point fruits and veggies) caused me to gain weight. I still attend meeting weekly because I need the support and accountibility of the meetings. So basically, I follow the WW program except I count calories instead of points.

But to answer your questions... the points system is a great way to learn to eat healthier. For most people, they don't need to learn how to do this. But for people like me that had no clue about what I should be eating daily and what I should eat in moderation or only occasionally, it was a great way to get learn.

I also stopped losing weight on PP. I suspect it's because I'm vegetarian so "free" fruits and veggies just meant that 75% of my diet was suddenly not counted at all. I wasted 6 months of money on WW after the new points plus system. At one point my leader was looking at my journal and my weight history (I was gaining and losing exactly 1.6 pounds every week) and he said, "Well, maybe you're just there". As in done losing weight. I wasn't ready to accept that because I know I still had weight to lose, I don't look big but my BMI was still "overweight" and I knew I needed to lose 15-20 pounds more. I've been struggling so much with these last few pounds so I quit WW and started counting calories. I wasted a lot of time with no success, even gained a little (hence my 0 on my status bar), but I started the TDEE with the military calculations and so far I'm seeing small losses. I guess I wasn't eating enough and maybe that was part of why WW stopped working (26 points per day don't go far).

I've read a lot about it, and the stall with the new PP system isn't uncommon at all, a lot of us that had success with points stopped seeing results with points plus.

BarbieAS

I did WW about 7-8 years ago and lost 80lbs. Gained it all back through some post-wedding happy weight and then 2 pregnancies, and tried to go back to it. I just wasn't feeling it anymore, I like MFP better. I just feel like it offers me so much more control over the way that I want to eat.

Also, if this doctor/whatever person has "developed" a "points" based system, it sounds like he's ripping off WW pretty blatantly. WW loves to sue people who pull that stuff, so I hope he doesn't get caught. I'd also be wary of his advice, since he doesn't seem to mind just stealing from other people instead of doing his own research and developing his own original thoughts on nutrition.