The Science of "Starvation Mode"

MinimalistShoeAddict

The conclusion of this thread is that if you read Wikipedia then you will go into Starvation mode.

I find it funny how this topic of this thread has turned into an academic debate on proper citations instead of a discussion about the actual studies referenced.

My goal was not to debate citation format, but provide some well organized resources that contain citations to scientific studies for those that wanted to learn more.

Annette_rose

It seems to me that different things really work differently for everyone. I have seen people who have eaten much less calories and lost weight and seen others who that really didn't work for. For me, I do have to cut back on the junk and eat better, along with exercising even if it is just walking. I saw someone recently who I did not recognize because she was very overweight a little over a year ago and I had not seen her since. For this person, having to cut back to about 1200 calories was the only thing that worked for her and she has found that she has to keep that lifestyle of lower calories in order to keep her weight down. But to be honest, she looks great. I realize that doesn't work for others. I work in a medical clinic and had a woman come in yesterday who I could tell has obviously lost weight but looks very gaunt. I did not tell her that but I did mention that she is losing weight. She says she is on a "water fast" for 40 days. My jaw nearly hit the ground. I asked her how in the world she is surviving with no protein, etc. She says she has learned to ignore the hunger pains and they have diminished, but that she does have periods of weakness/dizziness. There is absolutely no way this woman can sustain this "water diet" and yes, her body is going to go wacko I think once she introduces food back into it, if she doesn't kill herself before eating food again. She did NOT look healthy. The other woman I met who lost by cutting her calorie intake way back DID look healthy and had built up muscle tone as she lost. I still put a lot of stock into my French trip I took where I rarely saw a heavy person. They joked about us Americans and how they see us "eat, eat, eat all the time". My host family sat down to two main meals a day where they took their time eating, both meals included wine, cheeses, meats, and even bread. But they never snacked. It was such a great learning experience.

bumblebums

My goal was not to debate citation format, but provide some well organized resources that contain citations to scientific studies for those that wanted to learn more.

Then it would have been more effective to just include links to the primary sources, even if you used Wikipedia as your starting point for research.

justal313

My goal was not to debate citation format, but provide some well organized resources that contain citations to scientific studies for those that wanted to learn more.

Then it would have been more effective to just include links to the primary sources, even if you used Wikipedia as your starting point for research.

You know when I first heard of Wikipedia I thought that a crowd sourced encyclopedia would be an excellent reference, after all the people who knew about/cared about a topic would provide quality and near instant peer review. Time has revealed that the crowd is full of asshats.

86_Ohms

If you can't see past how Wikipedia can be used a source, then you can stop watching the news. Pay attention next time you're listening in on their sources, and you can see how many times they quote Wikipedia as their information reference. Although, I wouldn't quote Fox news on being reliable anyway.

The articles are built from other sources, just like 99% of competent articles across the web who quote scientific periodicles as their source. That's why there's a medium to huge "Reference" section at the bottom of the page. If you're skeptacle about what you read, then don't be lazy and check the information yourself from their gracious collection.

Also, the education system usually prohibits sources other than those they verify under their accreditation (ie, must have it from a page that directly came from a study, experiment, etc.) so the school doesn't get discredited from items they publish. Just because they are in the stone age doesn't mean you can use that article as a starting point and then quote the same source that the page used as another post had stated.


tl;dr
Thanks for the post OP. It's still informative to those who still think starving themselves would of been the right answer.

joleenl

Excellent post. Thank you.

I just want to add one tiny thing (aside from starvation mode):

I think obese/over weight people who enter diets that extremely low calorie diets, should also consider the substainability of the caloric intake. Many people that eat at extremely low caloric intake do end up undoing their weight-loss and sometimes even gain more back by binge eating. My advice eat at a manageable deficit for slow and steady weight-loss. In the slow process we teach ourselves portion size and calorie approximation which are valuable tools for long term success.

TimeForMe99

Let's try to get back on topic.

I would posit that "starvation mode" is a factor of nutrition, which is not the same as calorie level. A person eating nothing but Ramen noodles, for example, could eat maintenance calories but gain weight. The body responds to the lack of adequate nutrion by storing what it is being given. This is one reason why impoverished people tend to be overweight. They are eating inexpensive carbs with little nutrition and inadequate protein. A person who eats 1200 calories or less but is receiving adequate nutrients of all sorts can lose weight and remain healthy.

No one rule fits all. A lot is due to the size of the person - a 5' woman doesn't need the same nutritients as a 6' man. Genetics also plays a role. A person of Asian descent will metabolize food differently than someone who is German. Races have evolved over millenia to use indigenous food sources - thrive or die. Hence the often cited "French Paradox".

Redheadllena

I really appreciate this post. I was ignorant to what starvation mode really meant and how it works and would sometimes use it as an excuse not to stick to MFP's recommendations as of lately. Knowing that, no, I'm not really starving just because I feel hungry, and no, I'm not going to "plateau due to starvation mode" is extremely empowering so thank you!!

gooteek

Additionally, it has been proven losing more than 2-3 pounds a week can be dangerous due to the toxins that are released. Where he had a medicially supervised fast it is different as they could monitor and flush the system (I suppose control on water and eletrolyte would help), but I would never advise anyone trying a long fast to drop a significant amount of weight without being under doctor supervision. 2-3 pounds a week gracefully with the right foods and exercise will not only change your body, but your day to day habits, so that once you reach your ideal weight, you will actually stay there. Many fast lose plans are followed by quickly putting the weight back on, since the individual never learns to change the habits that got the 300+ lbs on them in the first place.

MinimalistShoeAddict

Excellent response. Thank you for responding to the content of my post and not the citation format!

I actually agree with everything you said. Learning portion control and calorie approximation is absolutely essential to the sustainability of any diet over the long run. Yo-yo dieting is not helpful for anyone and people need to work with a plan that will lead to a lifestyle they can maintain once their weight goals are achieved.

Excellent post. Thank you.

I just want to add one tiny thing (aside from starvation mode):

I think obese/over weight people who enter diets that extremely low calorie diets, should also consider the substainability of the caloric intake. Many people that eat at extremely low caloric intake do end up undoing their weight-loss and sometimes even gain more back by binge eating. My advice eat at a manageable deficit for slow and steady weight-loss. In the slow process we teach ourselves portion size and calorie approximation which are valuable tools for long term success.

Amy11108

So correct me if I am wrong, but this is how I understand it. These people were on a low calorie diet for 2 years, and the only effect on their metabolism was there was a 180 calorie reduction in their daily expenditure? 65 of which was from fidgeting? Sounds like most people are overestimating the effects of being in starvation mode.

MinimalistShoeAddict

So correct me if I am wrong, but this is how I understand it. These people were on a low calorie diet for 2 years, and the only effect on their metabolism was there was a 180 calorie reduction in their daily expenditure? 65 of which was from fidgeting? Sounds like most people are overestimating the effects of being in starvation mode.

This is correct and one of my primary points! The effect of "starvation more" is greatly exaggerated, particularly when applied to obese individuals with an abundant energy supply (of body fat).

It is worth emphasizing however that this study used solely overweight individuals. People who are underweight/normal weight to begin with have more to fear because they will run low on excess fat to burn and will lose lean body mass much more quickly than someone who is obese. There is no question that an underweight person will suffer far greater harm (and slowing of metabolism) than an obese person on a very low calorie diet.

Amy11108

So correct me if I am wrong, but this is how I understand it. These people were on a low calorie diet for 2 years, and the only effect on their metabolism was there was a 180 calorie reduction in their daily expenditure? 65 of which was from fidgeting? Sounds like most people are overestimating the effects of being in starvation mode.

This is correct and one of my primary points! The effect of "starvation more" is greatly exaggerated, particularly when applied to obese individuals with an abundant energy supply (of body fat).

It is worth emphasizing however that this study used solely overweight individuals. People who are underweight/normal weight to begin with have more to fear because they will run low on excess fat to burn and will lose lean body mass much more quickly than someone who is obese. There is no question that an underweight person will suffer far greater harm (and slowing of metabolism) than an obese person on a very low calorie diet.

Well thank you for posting that is very interesting! My husband went bariatric surgery, and his doctor told him the starvation mode (as we refer to it) was a myth but I never saw or looked for any evidence to back it up.

joleenl

Excellent response. Thank you for responding to the content of my post and not the citation format!

I actually agree with everything you said. Learning portion control and calorie approximation is absolutely essential to the sustainability of any diet over the long run. Yo-yo dieting is not helpful for anyone and people need to work with a plan that will lead to a lifestyle they can maintain once their weight goals are achieved.

Excellent post. Thank you.

I just want to add one tiny thing (aside from starvation mode):

I think obese/over weight people who enter diets that extremely low calorie diets, should also consider the substainability of the caloric intake. Many people that eat at extremely low caloric intake do end up undoing their weight-loss and sometimes even gain more back by binge eating. My advice eat at a manageable deficit for slow and steady weight-loss. In the slow process we teach ourselves portion size and calorie approximation which are valuable tools for long term success.

No problem, I just understood the message you were trying to convey.

Thanks for understanding mine. Honestly, when I re-read my posts, I can't believe how bad my grammer is. I am an educated individual but you'd never know it by my writing skills. One of my profs said it was because my brain thinks faster then I write or in this case type.

suzscott72

The conclusion of this thread is that if you read Wikipedia then you will go into Starvation mode.

I find it funny how this topic of this thread has turned into an academic debate on proper citations instead of a discussion about the actual studies referenced.

My goal was not to debate citation format, but provide some well organized resources that contain citations to scientific studies for those that wanted to learn more.

Well said!