Any amateur or professional Psychologists out there?

Funnydream

Does anyone else have this problem?

I was thinking this morning about why, in the past, I have always been good at losing weight when I put my mind to it, and even better at putting it all back on again!!

It occurred to me that the main problem is how I think about failure. In order to regain 42 lbs I would have first had to have had a bad food day (perhaps eaten a bar of chocolate or had fried food or some other such "failure" to my food regime) . Then, instead of moving on and adopting a "tomorrow's another day" approach, I would have had to have consistently and deliberately sabotaged my new healthy eating regime as 42lbs CANNOT, as I have previously lied to myself, "just crept back on".

SO - what I need to do is change the way I think about having the occasional bad day (like I did yesterday). I desperately want to be the slimmer me for life, and can't afford to regain weight or sabotage my healthy eating plans ever again.

I have to learn to believe that tomorrow IS another day with regard to bad food days and that it is OKAY to have a day full of non-healthy food choices - just as long as I get back on track. It's not the bad food day that makes me regain weight, it's what happens the day after, and the day after, and the day after that ......ad infinitum.

In short, I need some self-imposed CBT.

So, the question is - any suggestions from amateur or professional psychologists on how best to do this?

k_wills

Lady...i'm right there with ya!...but unfortunately other than echo your WHY?....I have no solution to offer, though i think your use of the word sabotage is probably key....I know that for various reasons I chose to do this....after my divorce, I lost a lot of confidence...and the thought of dating again seemed ridiculous...I would constantly make excuses as to why I wasn't ready....mainly... "I'm too fat!!!"...I'd lose some weight...then when faced with the prospect of actually having to meet some, i'd put it back on again!
I think you're on the right track though...understanding your emotional eating drivers is a good place to start....I've been thinking I may get some counselling to resolve any deep-rooted issues...which, like a lot of over-eaters is related to not loving yourself enough!

Luck and LOVE x

kateyb

This is something I have thought long and hard about, and the best I can come up with is that a layer of fat adds a comfort zone or safety barrier. One thing I have noticed in common with all of my larger friends is the underlying attitude or perception that when we lose the weight everything will be ok. I think the scary thing is that despite believing that we all know that losing weight isn't going to magically make everything else going wrong in your life better, the only difference is you'll have nothing tangible to blame all those issues on anymore.

Being very personal for a minute, I always used to think my inability to find a boyfriend was down to the fact that I was fat, I didn't have the self confidence to really put myself out there or felt that I wasn't good enough to be with or approach the guys I really fancied, and that when I was thin that would all change. Then I lost the weight and felt exactly the same as I did before. Actually I felt a little bit worse because I couldn't blame it on my size anymore.

At the same time when you reach that goal weight I think we all expect bells and whistles, a celebration and sense of achievement that will leave you feeling elated for weeks. Instead, you have spent so long focusing on 'being good' that once that is taken away you feel kind of lost and aimless, and subconciously create a situation whereby you'll have no choice but to reintroduce that drive and goal back in to your life. You reward your success with a treat, telling yourself that you deserve it. Then you start to take for granted the new figure you have and gradually resort back to all the old eating habits telling yourself a few lbs won't make a difference, you can knock them off in no time. Then before you know it you're back to where you started and beginning the journey all over again!

How's that for amateur pysch???

I don't have any answers for you, but I think that when I reach my goal weight I'm going to give myself a new goal. I don't know what it'll be yet but it'll be something health related. Maybe I'll start training for a marathon or take up a team sport. Something new to focus on, keep me moving and balance out any treats I think I need!
Hope that helps babe x

lulabellewoowoo

For me, it's a control thing. I tend to put the weight back on when I feel out of control of situations in my life. It's like a car skidding on ice. It takes a lot of effort to actually correct the situation. Obviously I'm not going to try, as I remind myself that it's better than the alternative of crashing into a tree. I need to use that same attitude with food. Because when I get my eating and health and weight under control, then I do feel more in control and actually feel able to handle more external situations. But it is a neverending fight it would seem. Not much help, but I appreciate your post as it makes me reexamine again what I am doing.

Funnydream

"At the same time when you reach that goal weight I think we all expect bells and whistles, a celebration and sense of achievement that will leave you feeling elated for weeks. Instead, you have spent so long focusing on 'being good' that once that is taken away you feel kind of lost and aimless, and subconciously create a situation whereby you'll have no choice but to reintroduce that drive and goal back in to your life. You reward your success with a treat, telling yourself that you deserve it. Then you start to take for granted the new figure you have and gradually resort back to all the old eating habits telling yourself a few lbs won't make a difference, you can knock them off in no time. Then before you know it you're back to where you started and beginning the journey all over again! "

KateyB - thanks for a your insights - for what it's worth, I think you are spot on. It's not just about changing how you think about having failed, it's about changing how you think about being slim. Thanks - we are one step nearer to solving the mystery - and it's common to many women I imagine.

Funnydream

Lullabellwoowoo (great name by the way!), I agree, it's about taking the time to think this through. I have dieted before (many times), but never really engaged with my thoughts. Thoughts control actions and behaviour, so tackling the thoughts is crucial.

suziblues2000

This is a really interesting post.

I'm not sure why people loose weight, then gain it back again. I've heard different ideas, but never really experienced anything.

I never really tried to loose weight before, so this is all very new. But not really because just like other bad habits, eating unhealthy food and living an unhealthy live style are choices I made.
I am making a choice now to keep fit and eat good food just like I am making a choice not to smoke and do other things that are very bad for me...

But I LOVE to eat! I LOVE how chocolate cake with cream cheese frosting tastes! I could never give those things up that I love.

Smoking, on the other hand, I have to give up totally. No cheat days....no taking a little puff here and there. Same way with drugs, absolutely no doing "a little bit of drugs". No matter how much I like how smoking or drugs make me feel, I CAN NOT cheat and do a little.

But with food, I can eat the bad stuff sometimes. And until I can teach myself how to just eat a little and not the whole cake, this can be very dangerous for me.

So, the thing for me is: will food be like drugs and cigarettes? Will I be able to eat a little bit of the bad stuff or will I have to give it up totally like I had to do with ciggs and drugs?

Some people can do a "little" and be fine and not go overboard. I sure hope I can be that way with certain food that I love because I don't think I'd be able to give it up altogether.

Thank you for bringing this up Funnydream. It will be very interesting to see which way I go with this journey I'm on. (interesting to me, anyway!)

Funnydream

Suzy - yeah, I thought it was interesting too - hopefully more people will contribute now that it's higher up the list.

I think, though I'm no expert, that some people do have an "addictive" type personality so I can totally empathize with what you are saying about your relationship with cigs/drugs. For me, I haven't smoked for 27 years but do have a problem with food fads and think I'm on the spectrum of the addictive type, though luckily not too seriously - and again, although I am no expert, I suspect that those who are well and truly hooked and can't kick the habit (whatever the habit is), are higher up the scale?

Sounds to me, as you have successfully kicked both the cigs and drugs, that you are able to effectively control whatever urges you to do stuff - and that HAS to be very encouraging!.

Like I said above - it ought to be possible to fall off the food wagon and be able to wipe the slate the next day and get back to the plan. It's not what you do on the day you break the diet, it's the knock on effect that does the damage.

Let's face it, eating sweet stuff is nice, and the knack is to be able to have enough and then say "Enough" without going on a mega food bender that lasts years and regaining every pound we lost!

Don't be discouraged Suzy - I think you are probably better equipped than most people to develop a healthy relationship with food, precisely because you KNOW what it's like to controlled by tobacco etc and to have conquered that addiction SUCCESSFULLY. You seem like a very self aware woman - and that's half the battle!

paddlemom

I think that one thing we need to do is to quit labelling "good food" and "bad food". The minute we think of eating a "bad food", we then think of ourselves as "bad", then we we think we have failed and beat our selves up and start that cycle of self abuse... and we don't need any help to think of ourselves as bad people. Then we start thinking of "good" food as our punishment or pennance for our bad behaviour, which puts a negative spin on those healthier choices.

It helped me to start thinking about foods in two categories - fuel foods and indulgent foods. Both are considered in a positive light. Fuel foods give me the nutrients and the energy I need. I enjoy the benefits that they bring me in how my body feels when I eat them. For example , the oatmeal I had for breakfast was warm and comforting, I got a little energy kick from the sugar, I feel satisfied full, not overstuffed or bloated, and it feels like it 'stuck to my ribs' so I'm not going to be hungry again for a couple of hours.

I COULD be thinking about how I really wanted a chocolate danish but instead I was "good" for having the oatmeal....but doesn't that make the oatmeal sound like the booby prize for being good????

Now on Friday night, after a hard week, you go out with friends and order pizza....this is indulgent food. This is filling another need - you need to let yourself relax a little, be part of the crowd, or satisfy a taste craving you have been having. Ok, so indulge a little. Give yourself permission to enjoy it, and actually enjoy it! Savour the flavour and the fun. You are feeding the soul, don't feel guilty. Don't shovel the food in so fast you forget to taste it (sometimes I think that we feel like if we eat it faster we won't notice how much we ate!) Then you can reflect on the fun you had and the food you enjoyed and feel satsified.
When you don't enjoy your indulgence, you don't quench that craving, so you keep looking for more....think about when you at 3 sticks of celery, a chicken leg, a bowl of oatmeal and an apple before you finally caved into that giant dish of ice cream you wanted. If you had honoured your craving in the first place, you probably would have been satisfied with just a small ice cream...

The key is to remember that it IS an indulgence....something that you get to do once in awhile. But just like you would treat a 5 year old (your inner 5 year old)....indulge them too often and they are spoiled!!! But indulge them a little and it can go a long way toward keeping them happy and cooperative.

Otherwise, count your calories just like it's a bank account...you can only 'spend' what you have. You can indulge in that Gucci bag, but you still need to pay the rent.

Well, that's my armchair psychology for the day! Thanks for indulging my soapbox.:happy:

Funnydream

Hi Paddlemom

It's a pleasure to be your soapbox audience.

There are so many really sound points you make and so where to start? To begin - I think you are so right in your understanding of negative and positive labels. I think it's brilliant idea to refer to food as either fuel or indulgent. I also like the analogy you make with a small child and spoiling - you are so right - this is what we do when a diet is self sabotaged - we literally spoil ourselves with a non stop food feast, which, ironically, ceases to be a luxury and not even enjoyable any more!

I really like your line about guilt - "You are feeding the soul, don't feel guilty" - this for me is CRUCIAL. Suzy, are you reading this? I need to really engage with the idea that it is OK to be indulgent, but it just has to be an occasional treat - NOT a lifestyle choice that lasts for years.

Yep - I also agree about the bank account comparison. This is precisely why MFP has been good for me because it helps me to conceptualize food/exercise/calories in that fiscal way.

Thanks for a really interesting post.

electricgypsy

i'm a second year psychology undergrad... i dont have the answers but heres food thought:

1.when we problem solve we have two options a quick option which takes little effort and a longer route which takes more effort but gives a more accurate results. we use the quicker option automatically and far, far more than the harder one,

2. once something becomes habit, we stop thinking about it.

3. we're like animals we respond tp positive reinforcement. perhaps some people stop getting positive reinforcement once they've made goal?

hope thats of interest.

MadHatR5

For me it has meant changing my time frame reference. Instead of worrying about "will I be 1 pound less next week" or "my weight has gone up since yesterday!" I am looking more long term. No more diet, just a lifestyle change of eating healthier and eating less. Obsessing with what the scale says everyday just breeds failure.

For me, I have always gained the weight back when I stopped tracking my food intake. Never again!

Funnydream

Electricgypsy - I really like point number 2 that you made - about people ceasing to think once something becomes a habit. That makes perfect sense to me.

I can also identify with the third point, about seeking positive reinforcement. It has given me food for thought because I can absolutely see how that would work.

Funnydream

MadHatR5 - at least you know what works for you, and what doesn't! I agree, tracking food (and for me, exercise) is crucial to the new healthy eating plan (for life!!)

mia66

Electricgypsy, I agree with point # 3. I am close to my goal weight now, and my other goal is to tone up. I am getting so much attention from people and it really makes me feel good, and I push myself harder. I have been thinking about what I am going to feel like when nobody notices any more. I work with lots of people who are in great shape and do not compliment them on how fit they are because that is just the way they look every day.
I think it will be good to create new goals when I have reached my current goals ( another good suggestion ).
I loved this posting, it made me think on a deeper level.
Mia
EAT LESS MOVE MORE:flowerforyou: :drinker:

Funnydream

Hi Mia - yep, I agree, I think setting another goal is a great idea. Any suggestions what sort of goal that could be?

I'm trying to imagine how good it will feel to be slimmer and fitter - though perhaps when I get there the novelty might wear off after a time, which is a danger zone and the "normal" state that other, slimmer, people feel all the time. They take it for granted.

Perhaps some people (like us), need to permanently have a goal, perhaps we are goal orientated people which is why we tackle weight loss and do something about ti (eventually!).

I have never seriously entertained the possibility that I may need permanent goals to make my life work as I want it to. In fact, I'd go so far as to say - in general, in my life, when I'm not (as I am now), on a fitness plan, is goal - less and drifting. This could just be the key as to why I do regain weight - I need STRUCTURE!

Mia - you're a star, thanks for this.

mia66

My goal over the past couple of months has been to challenge myself to working out at least 3-4 days per week. I have been working out at least 6 days a week this month. This means walking, swimming, biking, aerobics, cardio and weights. I joined the challenges on this site ( motivation and support / A NEW ME by PJilly ). Her challenge is to get 22 workouts during the month of May.
There are other challenges on here as well.
I also have a long term goal to get involved in higher endurance activities when I reach a better physical level. So I am pushing myself to run on the treadmill to build up my endurance. Mabey a marathon or take up squash.
I have also been thinking ahead to make some personal goals for myself to help me be a stronger person with more confidence.
There are so many different new goals to make as you go on in life. Just one step at a time though.
Thanks for this posting Funnydream. It is nice to have an opportunity to express your inner thoughts outloud.
Mia
EAT LESS MOVE MORE:flowerforyou: :drinker:

xonophone

i'm a second year psychology undergrad... i dont have the answers but heres food thought:

1.when we problem solve we have two options a quick option which takes little effort and a longer route which takes more effort but gives a more accurate results. we use the quicker option automatically and far, far more than the harder one,

2. once something becomes habit, we stop thinking about it.

3. we're like animals we respond tp positive reinforcement. perhaps some people stop getting positive reinforcement once they've made goal?

hope thats of interest.

I really like points #2 & 3. I just finished a great book called "The End of Overeating" written by the former US FDA Commisioner. Very enlightening about how the food industry (primarly fast food, chaine. etc) taps into those very points. I won't go into it further, because I think everyone who is serious about living a healthy lifestyle, which includes anyone who answered to this thread, needs to read the book Point #3 is particularly pertinitent to me because I have discovered that now that I reached my goal and have been on "maintenance" for a couple of weeks, it feels rather anti-climactic. Every week there was a new feeling of accomplishment as I got on the scale and saw weight loss. Further reinforcement came from the comments I got from colleagues, friends, acquaintances who noticed my weight loss and complimented me on it. I think by now I've pretty much seen almost everyone and there is no one left to tell me how good I look :blushing: So my only source of reinforcement comes from know I can still fit into the new jeans I bought...hardly the same thing.

But I also like another point by a previous poster - sorry that I can't recall the name - that we seem to have the attitude "Everything will be OK once I am thin." And then we get there and realize the other problems are still there and didn't disappear with the extra pounds: money, relationship, work, family, etc. I think that is a huge subconscious factor in why people go back to their old ways of eating.

Funnydream

I have added "The end of Overeating" to my library wish list !!!! Can you remember the name of the former FDA Comm author?

xonophone

I have added "The end of Overeating" to my library wish list !!!! Can you remember the name of the former FDA Comm author?

David Kessler, PhD

sdraughan

I am new to the website but I have did the yo-yo thing for years. I wish I could remember the article title but it was about food addiction and comfort eating. I am a compulsive eater. I have become so in touch with this that while I am compulsively eating, I will call myself out on it but I won't stop eating. In this article that I read, it stated that you would not tell a herion addict that since they have been good all week, they should go out and splurge a little bit and do a little bit of herion so they don't feel so deprived, so why say that to a person with a food addiction. I have realized that if I am good all week and I have that little sliver of cake after dinner the last day of the week, it will start the down fall. Personally, I can't have any crap food. It is all or nothing for me because once I open the pandora's box, I can't get it back closed until I have gained back all my weigt and then some.

Funnydream

Xonophone - Thanks for that. And, although you are at goal - it's worth knowing what a grand job you've done to reach it ! If your friends have stopped telling you - say it to yourself, or log on here and I'll tell you every day.

Do you think you will stay on MFP to maintain your loss? I think when I finally reach my goal (still a way to go yet), I will most certainly keep with this site. Also, as suggested earlier, I've come up with some goals to aim for once I get there - all related to physical endurance but quite impossible for me at the moment. One involves cycling round an island - 60 miles - and I plan to get fit enough to cycle it in one day. Sounds easy but the coastal route is far longer - so would be about 90 - 100 miles in total.

Funnydream

Shelagh - I really feel for you and understand what you mean. Suzyblues was saying much the same thing a few posts ago.

You have to do what works best for you. I think the suggestion about not seeing food as either crap or good is a sound one too - rather to think of it as fuel or indulgent, but - like you said, if you are a food addict it has the same effect as heroin on a drug addict and just signals a food binge.

It's possibly all to do with the addictiveness of sugar and fat and what the food industry WANT us to get hooked on because that spells PROFIT for them - which is why I am going to read the book suggested by Xonophone a few posts ago, as I think it might be useful to see where we fit in to picture of exploitation by the multinationals who want to keep us yo- yo'ing and on a permanent "diet" phase or "binge" phase - as both are vastly profitable businesses.

Good Luck, I've only just joined this site but so far it's been a wonderful tool and I've found it very helpful and the support from other people awesome.

xonophone

Funnydream, absolutely! I plan on using MFP to keep me on track indefinitely. I tried calorie counting once a few years ago, before this website was around. I did it the old-fashioned way with a calorie count book, a calculator, a pad & a pencil. I lost 7 pounds in a few weeks, but it was so laborious and time consuming that I just didn't keep up with it. Once I stopped counting calories, I went back to my old ways of eating. The 7 pounds came back, and they brought friends. I am so grateful to have found this website, I have always believed that keeping a food diary is THE BEST way to stay accountable. One of the most amazing things that I have discovered by using it, and something the book talks about as well, is how satiated I feel after an appropriately sized meal. In my pre-MFP days I would eat immense amounts of food, simply because it tasted good, even after i already knew I was full. Now I limit myself to eat a certain number of calories and to my great surprise, I am not hungry when the meal ends. So yes, yes, YES I am here to stay, I will keep using MFP for as long as I possibly can!!

And I love your goal. It has always been a little dream of mine to do one of those charming European tours by bicycle, so who knows, maybe one day we will meet on a bike path in some exotic locale :happy:

xonophone

Xonophone - Thanks for that. And, although you are at goal - it's worth knowing what a grand job you've done to reach it ! If your friends have stopped telling you - say it to yourself, or log on here and I'll tell you every day.

Awww, shucks...:blushing: Thanks Funnydream! :flowerforyou: